Weeping front callipers - 1250rt

[Clievma]

Hi all,

 

long time since i posted anything.

 

Moved to a 1250 rt in March, great engine by the way, but it was back at the dealers in June for replacement of both front callipers due to leaking fluid.  Jump forward to August and guess what? It went back in on Wednesday due to callipers weeping fluid again.

 

Expecting the bike back soon as the dealer ordered the parts strait away but was wondering if anybody else had experienced this issue?

 

cheers all.

mike

[AndyS]

I have heard of several people with the same issue.

Very strange isn't it. I am left scratching my head!

[wbw6cos]

Were they able to pinpoint the source of the leak?  On both? (wow)  Piston seals?

 

Was there any notice in brake performance?

 

How long before they started leaking?

 

I have not seen any on my RT, but will start inspecting with a little more scrutiny.

 

Thanks,

[Clievma]

Hi,

 

the first leak leak I noticed after about 2 months (1800 miles).  A small puddle of brake fluid on the floor was the giveaway.  The 2nd I noticed the underside of the calliper wet.  In both cases it was the near-side calliper which was weeping most.  

Although not confirmed by the dealer, both leaks I have seen appear to be from the upper piston seal, but this could be bad seal, poor manufacture or poor assembly.

 

ill see what the dealer says this time.....

[Rockosmith]

Didn’t BMW go to something other than Brembo calipers on the 1250’s?

[realshelby]

The 1250 series is running Hayes calipers I do believe. 

[wbw6cos]

On my RT, they do not list the Brembo name, however they are gold in color.  So I got that going for me, which is nice.

 

Thanks for the reply.  My bike was assembled in Oct, 2018.  MAybe I missed the bad run of caliper seals, or whatever the case.  4,900 miles with fairly aggressive riding.  If you know what I mean.... 

 

How hard do you ride?  Curious if that may be a contributing factor, or not.

 

Cheers,

 

[Blap]

More money for cheaper parts, bmw is going downhill fast, my rt is the biggest heap ever.  The only thing that wasn't junk on it was the brembos, now those are gone on the '19s.  

[Clievma]

Hi wbw6cos,

 

im quite light on the brakes, like to use engine braking and gears to get the speed under control mixed with lighter braking. Still ride reasonably quick but not aggressive. So I was very surprised to see the leaking callipers.

 

bike build date was dec 18 I believe. I bought in March 2019..

 

cheers

[wbw6cos]

24 minutes ago, Clievma said:

Hi wbw6cos,

 

im quite light on the brakes, like to use engine braking and gears to get the speed under control mixed with lighter braking. Still ride reasonably quick but not aggressive. So I was very surprised to see the leaking callipers.

 

bike build date was dec 18 I believe. I bought in March 2019..

 

cheers

 

Hello Clievma,

 

Thanks for the info.  I am following this thread, wondering if I may encounter issues similar to yours.  At times, I can be hard on the brakes.   I do use the engine for braking as well. but at times I have to grab a lot of brake lever; could be an overspeed issue associated with the shiftcam motor.  For some reason, I seem to be quick to accelerate.  HA

 

I hope your leak gets sorted and the dealer will inform you of the specifics.

 

Cheers,

 

[wbw6cos]

Update:  On my 1250 RT, I have Brembo caliper on the rear, but up front is BMW stamped on outboard sides and Hayes on the inboard sides.  Still lots to learn on my new RT.  Thanks.

[Paul De]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:15 PM, Blap said:

More money for cheaper parts, bmw is going downhill fast, my rt is the biggest heap ever.  The only thing that wasn't junk on it was the brembos, now those are gone on the '19s.  

 

Damning the whole bike except the brake calipers seems a bit harsh.  Maybe you got a lemon, or bought the bike without test riding it and while wearing a blindfold

[Blap]

Yes, I did get a lemon.  

[LAF]

What did you pay 27K for?

 

[Bernie]

Well, the 2020 R1250RS is shipping with Brembo and so is the GS. 

[wbw6cos]

10 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Well, the 2020 R1250RS is shipping with Brembo and so is the GS. 

 

I wonder if they can be swapped to the '19 R1250RT's?   

 

Could the caliper mounts for the '19 be any different than the '18 models?  The engine is just about the only difference in the "19 model.   Do the '18 models have Brembos up front?

 

Inquiring minds....

[Paul De]

Blap

 

I am truly sorry for putting a little shade on your original comment.  Yes I would be POed if I had your experience and at this point would be looking into the lemon law in your state to force them to buy it back.  I would say it is unlikely that that another unit would be a lemon too, but without having any confidence in BMW to deliver a quality machine to the market, if I got them to buy it back I'd be off to some other brand in a heartbeat as there are lots nice offerings out there.

[Clievma]

So the dealer called me today to say they are replacing both front callipers.  I should get the bike back later this so I’ll be keeping an eye on it.  Whilst they didn’t say what was the issue, the weeping fluid was coming from the piston seals.

 

I’ll let you know how I get on with the new callipers over the coming weeks 

 

cheers.

[Blap]

On 9/2/2019 at 8:21 AM, Paul De said:

Blap

 

I am truly sorry for putting a little shade on your original comment.  Yes I would be POed if I had your experience and at this point would be looking into the lemon law in your state to force them to buy it back.  I would say it is unlikely that that another unit would be a lemon too, but without having any confidence in BMW to deliver a quality machine to the market, if I got them to buy it back I'd be off to some other brand in a heartbeat as there are lots nice offerings out there.

Yes, they finally bought it back and I'll never buy a bmw again after the shit they put me through, that was my fifth and last.

[LAF]

Just saw a post from Canada.  Guy bought a new bike and then was told there was a need to replace the front caliper and parts would be 8 weeks!  Now this is after the deal is done as the poster is describing it!  What horse shit.

 

So I would assume like the shock it is coming to a stop sale order. 

 

This poster also mentioned $2300 off so I am not sure if that was for this issue or just a "deal"?

 

Again NOT Hayes.  BMW all the way.  Where the hell is their QC?

 

Remember Hayes built these to BMW Specs.  So all this goes to BMW and not anywhere else. Squarely at BMW's feet.

 

And once again why so long in fessing up?  Another, IMHO, critical issue that could impact rider safety heavily.

 

I am so happy I have my "I'm gonna die with this one" bike!  I would never buy a BMW again, but I think I have a very fine example of a wethead motorcycle in my 17.5 GS and it should see me off.

[Paul De]

9 hours ago, Blap said:

Yes, they finally bought it back and I'll never buy a bmw again after the shit they put me through, that was my fifth and last.

 

Glad to hear you didn't have to go to court to enforce a lemon law buy back dog. Come on back and let us know what you end up getting in its place.

 

When BMW went to the /5 there was grumbling that the new model lacked the quality of the previous generation.  I suspect the same grumble happened when they introduced the Oilhead, and I read about loss of quality here when the Waterhead was introduced.  For sure BMW has often shot themselves in the foot with quality issues on first year(s) of a new generation model. That said, BMW isn't alone in this regard. Honda typically finishes development on the backs of the early adopters of a new generation model.  All manufacturers do it and the hope is these issues fall into the quirk category VS outright equipment failure.  I guess the safest thing to do is buy a mature generation model and forget about the latest and greatest.

[LAF]

I think you are right Paul De.  Like I said I seem to have a fine example of the breed and am happy it has been great so far.

 

I would love to have a 1250 but there is ALWAYS something up with new model bikes and cars.  I am not sure if there ever has been a perfect release of any new model anything. 

 

My thing is it does seem the BMW is eroding it's value as a premium brand to cut cost and make money.  I can not at all fault them for this in the global economy we live in and they sell in, of which we are a small part.

 

I have said it before Hayes developed and hold the Patents on some disk brake areas.  My father worked for them in the 80's until he retired.  I know they inovated the disk brakes on semi trucks.  At any rate BMW said hey can you build us some brakes to these specs?  Hayes said sure, and built them.  Now BMW needs to QC them and be sure THEIR design is up to the task.  Well here we are calipers weeping all over the place. 

 

So other then cost what the hell was the matter with Brembo?  Has anyone here ever had a issue with a Brembo caliper?

 

Yes I really think cost was/is the reason BMW is doing it like everyone else, except worse.  So where is the incentive to buy another BMW if you know they are making them cheaper and cheaper every year? 

 

I have to say my 07 LT was my introduction to BMW motorcycles, then a 15 RT, and now a 17.5 GS.  All were great bikes but I do feel they have cheapened them over the years with more plastic and less metal, and the switch gear and stuff just seems cheaper.   Like I say, I am happy I have my "now I lay me down to sleep" bike.  Do I lust after the latest and greatest, you bet!  I am content for sure.  This bike has and does all I can ask of it, and is far more capable then I am.

[Paul De]

Hi LAF

 

I agree with most of your opinion except equating the use increasing amounts of plastic and less metal being equal to cheapening the product.  For the most part the use of plastic VS metal is to reduce weight, and increase performance/fuel economy, or eliminate corrosion.  Certainly as plastics have evolved to the point where they can have very good high temperature stability and even mechanical toughness, it seems inevitable their use VS metal would increase.

 

I asked a Harley engineer one time why they don't use more plastic on their bikes, particularly the fenders.  His response was Harley would love to use more plastic body components to save weight but due to the inherent vibration of the 45 degree motor, plastics would fatigue too fast and crack at the mounting points during testing so those projects didn't advance.

[PadG]

On 9/19/2019 at 10:44 AM, LAF said:

 

. . . .

 

Again NOT Hayes.  BMW all the way.  Where the hell is their QC?

 

Remember Hayes built these to BMW Specs.  So all this goes to BMW and not anywhere else. Squarely at BMW's feet.

 

And once again why so long in fessing up?  Another, IMHO, critical issue that could impact rider safety heavily.

 

I am so happy I have my "I'm gonna die with this one" bike!  I would never buy a BMW again, but I think I have a very fine example of a wethead motorcycle in my 17.5 GS and it should see me off.

Sorry Lee, but I have to disagree with that logic regarding Hayes not being responsible!  If Hayes built the units, and the failures are NOT because of design criteria, then Hayes is fully responsible for any issues regarding the item!  Design failure would affect all, or at least very many of the units.

 

I do agree about BMW's QA system though, as you know.  Just an aside, nobody uses the term QC (Quality Control) anymore.  It's QA (Quality Assurance), and that has to do with the change on the principle of quality system.  We no longer "control" quality, but build the quality into our manufacturing system.

 

On the quality issue, it looks like BMW has another big problem on hands.  You may have seen this in the other forum: https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1600gt-gtl/184123-k1600-all-stop-sale-shift-fork.html

[wbw6cos]

I was at the dealer yesterday (new tire mounting) and was told about the stop-sell on the G 310 GS due to caliper issues.  The guy mentioned the process for preventing corrosion, which affects the outside and eventually the inside surfaces.   Few other models were mentioned. LINKY  

[LAF]

On 9/22/2019 at 8:42 AM, PadG said:

Sorry Lee, but I have to disagree with that logic regarding Hayes not being responsible!  If Hayes built the units, and the failures are NOT because of design criteria, then Hayes is fully responsible for any issues regarding the item!  Design failure would affect all, or at least very many of the units.

 

I do agree about BMW's QA system though, as you know.  Just an aside, nobody uses the term QC (Quality Control) anymore.  It's QA (Quality Assurance), and that has to do with the change on the principle of quality system.  We no longer "control" quality, but build the quality into our manufacturing system.

 

On the quality issue, it looks like BMW has another big problem on hands.  You may have seen this in the other forum: https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1600gt-gtl/184123-k1600-all-stop-sale-shift-fork.html

Well BMW wrote the spec and as long as Hayes met those it is on BMW, period.  Even if they failed to meet the spec, where is BMW QC?  isnt there a test mule runing somewhere with all these components getting time on them?

 

II believe Hayes did it right and BMW cheapen out and it cost them.  Probably as simple as o ring size or type.  Dont know but it appears it is heading for a stop sale of the shock proportions.

[AndyS]

Hi Pad & Lee. It's not really important to where the blame lies. BMW can sort that out. What matters is that the customer gets a satisfactory fix.

Now, what is satisfactory for one person, may not be satisfactory to another. Some folk will have a dealer just around the corner whilst others will have some significant distance to get their issue sorted.

[PadG]

Right on Andy!

 

Gee, I wonder why I had decided to wait until next year to get my 1250???  I guess that jumping on the bandwagon with the previous '14 RT had taught me a thing or two.

[LAF]

On 9/23/2019 at 10:32 AM, AndyS said:

Hi Pad & Lee. It's not really important to where the blame lies. BMW can sort that out. What matters is that the customer gets a satisfactory fix.

Now, what is satisfactory for one person, may not be satisfactory to another. Some folk will have a dealer just around the corner whilst others will have some significant distance to get their issue sorted.

Yes and not really a super easy fix as the brakes have to be bleed after install.  Or at least that is what I assume and what I would do, but maybe not necessary here?

[Blap]

 

"Glad to hear you didn't have to go to court to enforce a lemon law buy back dog. Come on back and let us know what you end up getting in its place."

 

I'm just glad I got a refund when I did, I'll never buy another.  The new Africa Twin finally has cruise, tubeless tires and TFT with Apple car play and I'd rather replace a chain and sprockets instead of the final drive and swingarm like my R1150R at 12,000 miles, 3 months out of warranty and no help from BMW.  Back to Honda, never had any problems with them and yes, I know, it can happen with any bike but it hasn't happened with any Honda I've bought and I've had at least 12, my 5 BMWs always had something wacky.  Funny how the "premium" brands always act up, never a problem with any japanese bike I've owned. I know lots of people who haven't had problems with BMW but I always get the lucky ones.   Bikes Made Weird. Sorry to rag on them so much but they made the process painful and offered absolutely no compensation.  I'm done

                                                                                                         

                                                                                            

[TEWKS]

If you pick up the Africa Twin, please come back and tell us about it.  Most of us here own different brands too, this place isn't BMW exclusive. 

[Paul De]

Bap

 

Good luck on your next bike purchase and let us know what you think of it.  Most here have been or are multiple brand owner and appreciate a good bike regardless of the brand.

 

 I will say my Kawasaki GPz was bullet proof.  I beat hell on that poor thing every day I owned it and it always ran like a champ.  I did keep it well maintained but it never needed anything but the normal consumables