2000 R1200C electrical issues (114,000 miles)

[wbw6cos]

Sorry for the long post, but I need to lay out all I can to solicit some guidance on where to go next (sort of buiId the clock in order to tell the time.)

 

I go to turn on the key and the lights are slow to come on.  Horn works, brake light works, but no headlight (high/low,) or turn signals/flashers.  ABSII lights flashing (currently active fault, though) and fuel pump cycles up.  Bike will start, just take a while for the lights to work.

 

A few weeks ago, I go to leave for work at 05:45 (dark out) and start up the bike but the headlight was slow to come on (30-45 secs) but  I leave anyway.  About a mile from the house, I switched on the highbeam and lights go out.  No headlight, no tail light, no turn signals, but brake light works.  I make the u-turn to return to the house and the lights come back (same amount of time frame - 45 secs, or so.)  I chose to head in to work anyway without using the high beam (yeah, yeah.)  No issues until the afternoon start up to go home.  Power on and nothing but a brake light.  After about a minute, everything returned to light up and work.  I have had it parked until I resolve this, along with fuel filter change and clean out orange tank liner peel.  (UGH)

 

I finally got around to addressing the issue.  Removed the tank to access the electrical box below the motronic.  Swapped out good horn relay with load relief relay and horn worked with both relays (same part numbers,) but no lights.  Brake light still does operate just no tail light, headlight,  and turn signals.  I checked the fuses on the side for continutity with digital meter and all are good.  I also double checked battery post connections which are clean and tight.  Fresh battery with in the last year and stays on Optimate 6 while she waits her turn in the weekly rotation with the RT.

 

This problem occurred about 2 years ago.  I installed a new load relief relay and that worked and no issues since.

 

The only work done prior to this problem was to epoxy a broken turn signal housing (right front) which is common on these cruisers.   The plastic housing is held onto the stalk with metal screws and a clamp.  The fatigue happens enough that I keep some of those in stock.  Once they break, I swap them out.  It gets expensive, so epoxy was used.  I have about 3 more that were broken and then repaired.  At the time of re-installation of the repaired signal housing, all signals worked with proper flash rate and intensity.  

 

I broke out the Clymer manual to look through the wiring diagram and see that the load relay is the common link (in my opinion,) but I would love some advise on where to check next.

 

I currently have the tank on the bench for fuel filter change and possibly new interior hose, but do not think the tank off will change anything and may wait to change out the filter.  I need to order some hose anyway.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

Sorry for the long post, but I need to lay out all I can to solicit some guidance on where to go next (sort of buiId the clock in order to tell the time.)

 

I go to turn on the key and the lights are slow to come on.  Horn works, brake light works, but no headlight (high/low,) or turn signals/flashers.  ABSII lights flashing (currently active fault, though) and fuel pump cycles up.  Bike will start, just take a while for the lights to work.

 

A few weeks ago, I go to leave for work at 05:45 (dark out) and start up the bike but the headlight was slow to come on (30-45 secs) but  I leave anyway.  About a mile from the house, I switched on the highbeam and lights go out.  No headlight, no tail light, no turn signals, but brake light works.  I make the u-turn to return to the house and the lights come back (same amount of time frame - 45 secs, or so.)  I chose to head in to work anyway without using the high beam (yeah, yeah.)  No issues until the afternoon start up to go home.  Power on and nothing but a brake light.  After about a minute, everything returned to light up and work.  I have had it parked until I resolve this, along with fuel filter change and clean out orange tank liner peel.  (UGH)

 

I finally got around to addressing the issue.  Removed the tank to access the electrical box below the motronic.  Swapped out good horn relay with load relief relay and horn worked with both relays (same part numbers,) but no lights.  Brake light still does operate just no tail light, headlight,  and turn signals.  I checked the fuses on the side for continutity with digital meter and all are good.  I also double checked battery post connections which are clean and tight.  Fresh battery with in the last year and stays on Optimate 6 while she waits her turn in the weekly rotation with the RT.

 

This problem occurred about 2 years ago.  I installed a new load relief relay and that worked and no issues since.

 

The only work done prior to this problem was to epoxy a broken turn signal housing (right front) which is common on these cruisers.   The plastic housing is held onto the stalk with metal screws and a clamp.  The fatigue happens enough that I keep some of those in stock.  Once they break, I swap them out.  It gets expensive, so epoxy was used.  I have about 3 more that were broken and then repaired.  At the time of re-installation of the repaired signal housing, all signals worked with proper flash rate and intensity.  

 

I broke out the Clymer manual to look through the wiring diagram and see that the load relay is the common link (in my opinion,) but I would love some advise on where to check next.

 

I currently have the tank on the bench for fuel filter change and possibly new interior hose, but do not think the tank off will change anything and may wait to change out the filter.  I need to order some hose anyway.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

 

 

Morning wbw6cos

 

I work on very few 1200C bikes.

 

I just tried to look up the wire schematic on your 1200C bike & I have a number of choices with some having an actual load relief relay & others only having a light relay. Can you supply me with your exact model  like 259c or 259 XX or more info on what you have anyhow.

 

If you have an actual load relief relay then it's possible that it isn't seeing a good starter solenoid connection (that is what grounds the low side of the load relief relay pull-in coil).

 

You might try removing the load relief relay, then simply shorting across the contact terminals in the socket (not the pull-in coil terminals), if this removes your problem then look for a high resistance connection between the load relief relay & the  starter solenoid, of look for a high resistance between the starter's  small terminal & the engine case. (you should have some resistance as the load relief ground does pass through the solenoid pull in coil winding)

[wbw6cos]

Morning D.R. ___,

 

Thanks for the reply.  

 

The decoded VIN (ZA64685) indicates "259 (R-series.)"  Not sure how else to tell the specific model other than that.  It has the Montana set-up, but that is mainly trim levels.

 

When I was looking over the schematic, I was only focused on the hot side of that load relief relay.  The negative (low?) side is interesting as you mentioned the starter solenoid, as I have replaced the starter a few years ago.  I cannot recall the specific timing involving the previous load relief relay issue and changing out the starter, but it may be a coincidence.   I will check check the starter connections.  I have not noticed a dragging starter.

 

Question, with the tank being off, will that be a big deal when trying to short across the terminals?  Guessing with the key on only and not trying to crank.  All this lights out is prior to the starter engaging anyway.

 

Thanks,

 

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Morning D.R. ___,

 

Thanks for the reply.  

 

The decoded VIN (ZA64685) indicates "259 (R-series.)"  Not sure how else to tell the specific model other than that.  It has the Montana set-up, but that is mainly trim levels.

 

When I was looking over the schematic, I was only focused on the hot side of that load relief relay.  The negative (low?) side is interesting as you mentioned the starter solenoid, as I have replaced the starter a few years ago.  I cannot recall the specific timing involving the previous load relief relay issue and changing out the starter, but it may be a coincidence.   I will check check the starter connections.  I have not noticed a dragging starter.

 

Question, with the tank being off, will that be a big deal when trying to short across the terminals?  Guessing with the key on only and not trying to crank.  All this lights out is prior to the starter engaging anyway.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Afternoon  wbw6cos

 

You should be able to test with the tank removed.

 

With key ON 12v goes to one leg of the load relief pull in coil, the other leg grounds through the starter's solenoid plunger coil-- So the relay should be energized with key ON.

 

When you push the starter button the starter solenoid little terminal goes to 12V  to pull the solenoid plunger in so that  switches the low side of the load relief pull in coil to have 12v on both sides of the pull in coil  (no potential so no relay pull in) therefore no lights during engine cranking  as the load relief relay contacts go open.

 

As soon as you quit pushing the starter button the solenoid goes back to becoming a ground path for the load relief pull in coil so the load relief contacts close again & you have your lights back.

 

If you shunt (bypass) the load relief relay contact points (NOT the pull in coil side) then you should have lights all the time (even during engine cranking) as the shunt can't go open during engine cranking.

 

If your problem goes away with the by-pass in place then you have, either a bad load relief relay, or the low side (starter solenoid side) is not seeing enough ground through the solenoid, or you have a problem on the ign switch side not supplying 12v TO the load relief pull in coil. (should be pretty easy to isolate the issue)

 

I still can't really define your 259 sub-model but I will just use one of the sub models that use the load relief relay. (I don't see a lot of differences in the load relief models as far as operation goes) 

[wbw6cos]

Afternoon D.R. ___,

 

Just so I am clear, which slots do I by-pass?  I am thinking between 3 & 5, would that be correct?  It seems like an open circuit and 2 & 1 appear to connect to the pull-in coil, which would close that circuit.  

 

Thanks,

William

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Afternoon D.R. ___,

 

Just so I am clear, which slots do I by-pass?  I am thinking between 3 & 5, would that be correct?  It seems like an open circuit and 2 & 1 appear to connect to the pull-in coil, which would close that circuit.  

 

Thanks,

William

 

Afternoon William

 

Yes, 3 & 5,  1 & 2 are just the pull-in coil (never hook 1 & 2 together as that will result in a direct short).  

[wbw6cos]

With my test light, I put the tip in at slot 3 and the alligator clip on battery (-) and the test light has power with the key off (and on.)  I use a jump wire to connect 3 & 5 and turn the key on and still no lights, turn signals.  Horn relay is good with horn working.  Swapped relays and horn still works.  New relay in the mix.  So now that that is out of the way, I am guessing that the starter solenoid is next?

 

Regards,

 

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

With my test light, I put the tip in at slot 3 and the alligator clip on battery (-) and the test light has power with the key off (and on.)  I use a jump wire to connect 3 & 5 and turn the key on and still no lights, turn signals.  Horn relay is good with horn working.  Swapped relays and horn still works.  New relay in the mix.  So now that that is out of the way, I am guessing that the starter solenoid is next?

 

Regards,

 

 

Afternoon William

 

If you jumped 3 to 5 then that took the load relief relay completely out of the picture so (IF) you have power to 3 then your light problem is post relay. Let me look at the schematics & see where it could be in the post relay wiring.

 

In the mean time jump 3 to 5 then move the handlebars back & forth to see if the lights flash on & off as you do that. 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon William

 

Does your bike have a headlight switch?  (some do some don't)

[wbw6cos]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon William

 

If you jumped 3 to 5 then that took the load relief relay completely out of the picture so (IF) you have power to 3 then your light problem is post relay. Let me look at the schematics & see where it could be in the post relay wiring.

 

In the mean time jump 3 to 5 then move the handlebars back & forth to see if the lights flash on & off as you do that. 

 

Afternoon D.R. ___,

Nothing happens full lock to lock.

 

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon William

 

Does your bike have a headlight switch?  (some do some don't)

 

No headlight switch.  Constant on with high beam switch. I do have Euro lights wires to come on with high beam.  I found out about that relay, which is located behind tool pouch/fuse area on left side.  I do not have an equivalent relay to swap it out.

 

Just finished mowing and have the grill heating up.  I will have more time to dive into it further next weekend, unless I can find time after work each day.  Until then.....thanks for the help.  

 

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

 

Afternoon D.R. ___,

Nothing happens full lock to lock.

 

 

No headlight switch.  Constant on with high beam switch. I do have Euro lights wires to come on with high beam.  I found out about that relay, which is located behind tool pouch/fuse area on left side.  I do not have an equivalent relay to swap it out.

 

Just finished mowing and have the grill heating up.  I will have more time to dive into it further next weekend, unless I can find time after work each day.  Until then.....thanks for the help.  

 

 

Eveing William

 

If you get chance see if your flash to pass works. That might help define more were to start looking.

[wbw6cos]

Good evening D.R. ___,

I have already tried that switch for high beam, both on and flicker.  Nothing.  I may try to clean it out.  No rain in a while.  I did wash the bike, but not with high pressure; only water out the end of hose.  Still no tail light, head light, dash lights and no turn signals.  Strange.

[Tri750]

I show his VIN as a 259C 

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, Tri750 said:

I show his VIN as a 259C 

 

 

Thanks Tyi750

 

That is what I have been using so far  so I feel better that is correct for his bike. 

[wbw6cos]

Good morning D.R. ___,

 

Haviing had more time to go back and check things thoroughly, I have found the issue to be the load relief relay.  *gasp*   When this issue happened a few years ago, I bought a few replacements.  The new relays were yellow in color, which is not the original black color.  When I was looking on Chromeheads forum for a photo of relays for identification purposes, I went by the color black for the relays, not even taking into account that my replacement from a few years ago was yellow.  I never even paid attention to that one and I ended up testing (and switching) relays for horn and fuel pump  It is possible that I by-passed the fuel pump and with the fuel tank off, the "lights still did not work" was incorrect and led you to think that it was post relay related.  I started checking everything around the starter and hit the start button to confirm action.  The starter is still clean and new looking from an R/R a few years ago.  So I ended up switching around the that yellow relay with a confirmed good relay for the horn and the lights worked. (another *gasp*, I know)  I still had four more new relays to use and one of those were bad, I guess.  That was what threw me also.  

 

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for taking time to look up technical info on a bike you have rarely worked on.  I appreciate the fact that you try to help a forum member sort through an issue and it becomes more challenging for you when someone like me is looking in the wrong place on the bike.    I just wish the Clymer manual had a detailed layout for the fuses and relays.  I did see the photo of the box under the motronic, but no itemized references.  Most of those R12C bikes have differences with accessories and can be confusing when trying to sort though what works what.

 

I have owned that bike for over 11 years and still have lots to learn,  With the new RT in the stable, I will be tackling more and more maintenance on the C and can stay riding while the C gets fixed at my leisurely pace, although my billable hours are going to be very costly.  HA 

 

Now the R1200C is back in the riding rotation.

 

 

Cheers,