Buggered Slave Cylinder Weep Hole

[Imgnr]

Ugh.  I drilled the recommended weep hole right into the sleeve area where the seal is supposed to go.  What should I do?

[Imgnr]

Actually I think it might be good.  For some reason, all the pictures of the holes I see online were all before the lip but come to think of it, the seal actually ends before the hole.  I drilled a second hole as well, thinking that the first hole will be covered up.  So now I have two holes.  Guess it should be okay right?

[Lowndes]

As long as that "seal area" hole is completely covered by the seal band or "case", it should be just fine.   The trans is lubed by immersion and "splash", not by pressure from a pump like the engine. 

 

Measure the width of the seal "case" (Ws) and the depth in the slave cyl hole of the far side of your weep hole (Dh).  After installing and fully seating the seal, measure the depth to the face of the seal (Ds).  Ds + Ws should be greater than Dh, right??

 

Make sure there are no burrs around the hole in the seal seat.  If you have a finger long enough to reach it and feel any edges sticking up you could try using a chrome plated socket with a slightly smaller outside diameter that the seal seat and on a straight extension to gently "rub" that area to smooth any burrs and ease the seal installation.

 

If you just "had to" plug it, a dab of silicone in the outside end of the hole and a short self-tapping screw of the correct diameter would be a very positive fix.

 

There was about 1/4" gap between the face of that seal and the slave piston in my '99 R1100S, which is your target.  Your second hole will be partially covered by the slave cyl itself.  There was about 1/64" annular space (gap) around the slave cyl that I was not comfortable would provide adequate gravity flow to prevent the DOT4 from going down the clutch rod hole to the clutch disc.  When that happens you or someone else will be seeing all this stuff again.  Replacing the clutch is either a ROYAL pain or very expensive.

 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, Imgnr said:

Actually I think it might be good.  For some reason, all the pictures of the holes I see online were all before the lip but come to think of it, the seal actually ends before the hole.  I drilled a second hole as well, thinking that the first hole will be covered up.  So now I have two holes.  Guess it should be okay right?

 

Morning Imgnr

 

Yes, if the seal sits in front of that hole then you are good to go (might, as the picture makes it look like the hole is rearward of rear end of input shaft). The seal rear face does extend just slightly rearward of the rear end of the input shaft with the sealing lip sitting forward of the rear face so it might just catch a small part of that hole when properly seated.  

 

You might make sure the that the front  hole is well de-burred so it doesn't foul the seal OD as it is driven in.

 

Either hole should function OK as there is clearance between the slave housing & the trans cavity for the rear hole to function  & the front hole, even though slightly higher than the bottom cavity floor, is still well below the  pushrod height.   

 

Added: If I were working with that bike I would probably put a slight wipe (very thin small amount) of anaerobic gasket sealer in front of  the front hole area in the seal seating area  just to be certain that the seal didn't seep gear oil at a later time.  

[Imgnr]

4 hours ago, Lowndes said:

As long as that "seal area" hole is completely covered by the seal band or "case", it should be just fine.   The trans is lubed by immersion and "splash", not by pressure from a pump like the engine. 

 

Measure the width of the seal "case" (Ws) and the depth in the slave cyl hole of the far side of your weep hole (Dh).  After installing and fully seating the seal, measure the depth to the face of the seal (Ds).  Ds + Ws should be greater than Dh, right??

 

Make sure there are no burrs around the hole in the seal seat.  If you have a finger long enough to reach it and feel any edges sticking up you could try using a chrome plated socket with a slightly smaller outside diameter that the seal seat and on a straight extension to gently "rub" that area to smooth any burrs and ease the seal installation.

 

If you just "had to" plug it, a dab of silicone in the outside end of the hole and a short self-tapping screw of the correct diameter would be a very positive fix.

 

There was about 1/4" gap between the face of that seal and the slave piston in my '99 R1100S, which is your target.  Your second hole will be partially covered by the slave cyl itself.  There was about 1/64" annular space (gap) around the slave cyl that I was not comfortable would provide adequate gravity flow to prevent the DOT4 from going down the clutch rod hole to the clutch disc.  When that happens you or someone else will be seeing all this stuff again.  Replacing the clutch is either a ROYAL pain or very expensive.

 

Loundes - Thank you for the response; everything you said makes sense but I can't figure out the diagram you attached.  What is if of exactly?  

 

[Imgnr]

I installed the seal with the shaft extending about .2cm past the outside edge of the seal. I did not fully sear the seal and do not see the hole at all. I will add gasket maker into the hole from the bottom per Dirtrider’s recommendation. Since I can’t see if the edge of the hole on the inside is covered up by the seal, I might also risk getting gear oil dripping out. 

 

Question: is where I left the seal ok?  Steptoe says to seat it entirely in one of his posts.

 

Thank you to everyone who contributes to this forum. You guys rock. I would love to contribute but as you can see by my limited skill set, I’ll provably make problems worse if I gave advice!  : p

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Imgnr said:

I installed the seal with the shaft extending about .2cm past the outside edge of the seal. I did not fully sear the seal and do not see the hole at all. I will add gasket maker into the hole from the bottom per Dirtrider’s recommendation. Since I can’t see if the edge of the hole on the inside is covered up by the seal, I might also risk getting gear oil dripping out. 

 

Question: is where I left the seal ok?  Steptoe says to seat it entirely in one of his posts.

 

Thank you to everyone who contributes to this forum. You guys rock. I would love to contribute but as you can see by my limited skill set, I’ll provably make problems worse if I gave advice!  : p

 

 

Afternoon Imgnr

 

Per your first picture I really thought that you would have more hole showing behind the seal (goes to show that judging things from an internet  picture is not always accurate).

 

The BMW service manual doesn't give a seal seating  depth 'plus' the BMW special  tool for driving the seal in does not have a stop step to limit tool travel so that means that the seal goes in until it stops  (fully seated all the way in).  

[Imgnr]

Dirt rider - thank you. Do you think I should tap it all the way in?  I thought the entire hole would be behind the seal when I examined the picture on my computer. 

[Imgnr]

So, I tapped it all the way in even though other forums say that there’s an oil channel. Dirt rider and the other advice I’ve received here have not let me down yet so if they say to fully seat it, then that's what I'll do. Lo and behold, the hole appeared. 

 

If there’s a lesson here it’s that the hole is really hard to drill accurately and the drill bit will tend to angle in. Be very careful!

 

Also, in case anyone needs to pull the input shaft seal, I tried using a couple of seal picks to remove the it and wasted an hour. Screwed in a wood screw and yanked it straight out. 

[Lowndes]

On 8/11/2019 at 11:30 AM, Imgnr said:

Loundes - Thank you for the response; everything you said makes sense but I can't figure out the diagram you attached.  What is if of exactly?  

 

Imgnr,

 

The diagram is a "section" of a seal like the one you installed.  If you cut your seal in half with a band saw and looked at one of the cuts, this is a detailed drawing of it with the names of the parts, that's all.

 

From your last pic above with the first hole visible now, it looks like you are good to go.  No need to plug that hole now.  Good job!!  And if Dirt Rider says it's OK to drive a seal all the way in, you can take it to the bank.

[Imgnr]

6 hours ago, Lowndes said:

Imgnr,

 

The diagram is a "section" of a seal like the one you installed.  If you cut your seal in half with a band saw and looked at one of the cuts, this is a detailed drawing of it with the names of the parts, that's all.

 

From your last pic above with the first hole visible now, it looks like you are good to go.  No need to plug that hole now.  Good job!!  And if Dirt Rider says it's OK to drive a seal all the way in, you can take it to the bank.

Thank you for your time!!!  Helping others with no expectation of reward is indeed the definition of altruism. 

[Lowndes]

Just the "Four R's" of this obsession: Riding, Reading, wRenching, and wRiting!!

[Imgnr]

Unfortunately I’m going to have to open this one back up. 

 

After I thought everything was all buttoned up, I took my bike out for a celebratory ride. After I got back there was a small puddle under the bike. It appears to be gear oil. I cracked the bike in half (easier the more you do it). 

 

Seems the input shaft seel is leaking. It was such a pita to pull out the first one. I’m really considering putting a thin film of gasket maker against the inner edge of a new seal and pushing it in. There seems to be enough room for the slave cylinder to clear. So basically I’ll have a double seal protected by a layer of gasket maker. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Imgnr said:

Unfortunately I’m going to have to open this one back up. 

 

After I thought everything was all buttoned up, I took my bike out for a celebratory ride. After I got back there was a small puddle under the bike. It appears to be gear oil. I cracked the bike in half (easier the more you do it). 

 

Seems the input shaft seel is leaking. It was such a pita to pull out the first one. I’m really considering putting a thin film of gasket maker against the inner edge of a new seal and pushing it in. There seems to be enough room for the slave cylinder to clear. So basically I’ll have a double seal protected by a layer of gasket maker. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning  Imgnr

 

Is it just the way the picture taken or is that seal in there crooked?  It looks crooked.

 

Where is it leaking? Around the seal OD or around the seal ID? (can you tell?) -- I think (personally)  I would try to identify this before forming a game plan.

 

In any case if THAT seal is leaking then get it out of there & replace it with a working functioning seal.

 

You might have to address that improper hole while you have it apart as you don't want to have to go back in again.

[Imgnr]

I dont know how 

14 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning  Imgnr

 

Is it just the way the picture taken or is that seal in there crooked?  It looks crooked.

 

Where is it leaking? Around the seal OD or around the seal ID? (can you tell?) -- I think (personally)  I would try to identify this before forming a game plan.

 

In any case if THAT seal is leaking then get it out of there & replace it with a working functioning seal.

 

You might have to address that improper hole while you have it apart as you don't want to have to go back in again.

I don’t know how DR knows these things but the seal DOES seem to be crooked. See the socket sticking out before and after pics. 

 

I continued tapping on the socket and got it as straight as I could. Not sure how hard you can hit the seal before you damage it. 

 

Before I put everything back together, I’ll run the bike in neutral for 10 minutes with a fan blowing and checking w a q tip for any seeping fluids. 

 

My past experience w seals is on Japanese bikes where they’re on the side of the bike and I had great access and visibility. 

 

Will have to wait till the weekend when the wife isn’t here. She doesn’t like it when I run the bike inside the garage. 

[Lowndes]

"She doesn’t like it when I run the bike inside the garage. "

 

 

It's just that sometimes you wake up dead.

[Imgnr]

29 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

"She doesn’t like it when I run the bike inside the garage. "

 

 

It's just that sometimes you wake up dead.

Lol. Don’t blame her. There’s enough oil and gas fumes coming into the house already. 

 

Just also realized that the bike needs to be in gear so the gear oil sloshes around to make sure that it’s properly sealed. Guess I’ll need to put everything back together.

 

Apparently I could’ve just taken the rear wheel off to access the slave and not cracked the bike in half again.  

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, Imgnr said:

Just also realized that the bike needs to be in gear so the gear oil sloshes around to make sure that it’s properly sealed. Guess I’ll need to put everything back together.

 

Apparently I could’ve just taken the rear wheel off to access the slave and not cracked the bike in half again.  

 

 

Morning Imgnr   

 

Your transmission is a constant mesh gear box so most everything inside  spins except the output shaft with the clutch engaged & engine  running.

 

Not quite the same as with the output shaft also spinning  but you will get a lot of  gear oil splash just running in place (the hotter the gear oil is the more splash you will get to the rear bearing).

 

That seal in question is on the rear of the intput shaft & that spins all the time that the engine is running & clutch engaged.  

 

If you can somehow overfill the trans then that would be worst case as far a checking for a rear seal leak. (don't forget to drain  the excess out after testing)

[Lowndes]

Imgnr,

 

Just a note from someone else on one of these forums a couple of years ago re these older Beemers and oil leaks/weeps.  Sometimes synthetic oils will weep around a seal where a dino oil doesn't.  I found that to be the case on two bikes of mine.

 

I'd bet Dirt Rider's sharp eyes caught your problem.  Let's hope.