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Dragging frot brake caliper 94 r1100 rs

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GRIPPY

First post.Just bought 94 r1100rs.Bought "as is"there were many things to fix for safety inspecton.All done except dragging front brake caliper (right side).I have the caliper off again,the pistons are tightish but can be pushed  in with thumb with some effort.should they be very free to push?What else could it be,not getting a very firm lever when bleeding could that do it?Also there are spacers between caliper and fork leg,do not see them on any parts list but without them the wheel willl not turn with the new pads...Any input will be appreciated.

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dirtrider
19 minutes ago, GRIPPY said:

First post.Just bought 94 r1100rs.Bought "as is"there were many things to fix for safety inspecton.All done except dragging front brake caliper (right side).I have the caliper off again,the pistons are tightish but can be pushed  in with thumb with some effort.should they be very free to push?What else could it be,not getting a very firm lever when bleeding could that do it?Also there are spacers between caliper and fork leg,do not see them on any parts list but without them the wheel willl not turn with the new pads...Any input will be appreciated.

 

Afternoon GRIPPY

 

Post us a picture of the spacers so we know what you are looking at.

 

No way to know for sure what you have but caliper pistons do a have some inherent return drag so again without knowing how much drag (compared to the opposite side) we can't  tell you much.

 

Is the opposite side also dragging?

 

Possibly a bad brake rubber hose with inside liner degradation  that is acting like a one way check valve (happens not often but it does happen on the hold 1100/1150 bikes.

 

That spongy lever could be some air trapped air in the ABS  system (if  bike has ABS), or a soft degraded (spongy)  brake hose, or hand lever master cylinder piston  not returning all the way back to it's out stop so not picking up new fluid, or ?????.

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GRIPPY
3 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon GRIPPY

 

Post us a picture of the spacers so we know what you are looking at.

 

No way to know for sure what you have but caliper pistons do a have some inherent return drag so again without knowing how much drag (compared to the opposite side) we can't  tell you much.

 

Is the opposite side also dragging?

 

Possibly a bad brake rubber hose with inside liner degradation  that is acting like a one way check valve (happens not often but it does happen on the hold 1100/1150 bikes.

Hi dirtrider thanks for the reply.the spacers are just washers,but without them the wheel will not turn with the new pads as the pistons are pushed back as far as they will go?I have just been told that the caliper seals may have swelled but doubt if i can get them out without damaging them.

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dirtrider
7 minutes ago, GRIPPY said:

Hi dirtrider thanks for the reply.the spacers are just washers,but without them the wheel will not turn with the new pads as the pistons are pushed back as far as they will go?I have just been told that the caliper seals may have swelled but doubt if i can get them out without damaging them.

 

Afternoon GRIPPY

 

Who told you that the piston seals were swelled?

 

If the pistons are pushed all the way back & ONE brake pad still drags then possibly you have incorrect brake pads, or the front wheel isn't where it belongs (left & right).

 

You might remove the brake pads, then reinstall the caliper, then  measure from caliper casting to brake rotor on both sides. If the brake rotor isn't centered in the caliper then possibly something wrong with the font wheel bearings/spacers/etc. (front wheel mis-positioned laterally)

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GRIPPY
1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon GRIPPY

 

Who told you that the piston seals were swelled?

 

If the pistons are pushed all the way back & ONE brake pad still drags then possibly you have incorrect brake pads, or the front wheel isn't where it belongs (left & right).

 

You might remove the brake pads, then reinstall the caliper, then  measure from caliper casting to brake rotor on both sides. If the brake rotor isn't centered in the caliper then possibly something wrong with the font wheel bearings/spacers/etc. (front wheel mis-positioned laterally)

No it was a friend saying it"s a possibility,but I have just removed one seal and want to compare each piston resistance.With the seal removed the piston is a bit draggy but not sure how it should feel.Wondering if i should lap them in.Yes something is out of place,with the bottom pinch bolt slackened this is how it wants to sit.Once i have figured out the caliper I will have a closer look.

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GRIPPY

Looks as though at least part of the problem is the seals.I removed them all and they have swelled to different diameters.Have ordered new set.The pistons just clack about in the bores without the seals so no problem with them.

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Lowndes

Hey, GRIPPY,

 

CONGRATS on the bike!!

 

If you are trying to figure out how to post pics here (and we need pics!!) there are some tutorials here somewhere.

 

If you find that you need seals or parts for the calipers, this place may be able to help, even with Brembo calipers.  You may have discovered BMW does not sell caliper parts.

 

https://store.bevelheaven.com/Rebuild-Kits-Parts/

 

If your new-2-you R1100RS has the original large diameter black rubber OEM brake lines, you are WAY past "living on borrowed time" with them.  They need to be replaced ASAP.  DOT4 degrades them from the inside and the decomposing rubber can get into the calipers and clog the galleries, or just burst.  Problems seem to start at about 15 years of age.  That happened to my '99R1100S a couple of years back not long after I got it.  The right front caliper started dragging badly.  Had to replace all the flexible brake lines and clean out the calipers.  The entire job took a whole day, tank off to brakes bled.

 

Galfer and Spiegler make very good PTFE/coated braided stainless brake line kits for most bikes.  

 

https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/cycle-brake-line-kits.html

 

https://galferusa.com/

 

Pics of my adventure here:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kN8PyDxEirl9iVS02

 

iXfCsjw-vDaaiWrNDmYlg5hoLpqej9vWtfx5Fi_L

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GRIPPY
8 hours ago, Lowndes said:

Hey, GRIPPY,

 

CONGRATS on the bike!!

 

If you are trying to figure out how to post pics here (and we need pics!!) there are some tutorials here somewhere.

 

If you find that you need seals or parts for the calipers, this place may be able to help, even with Brembo calipers.  You may have discovered BMW does not sell caliper parts.

 

https://store.bevelheaven.com/Rebuild-Kits-Parts/

 

If your new-2-you R1100RS has the original large diameter black rubber OEM brake lines, you are WAY past "living on borrowed time" with them.  They need to be replaced ASAP.  DOT4 degrades them from the inside and the decomposing rubber can get into the calipers and clog the galleries, or just burst.  Problems seem to start at about 15 years of age.  That happened to my '99R1100S a couple of years back not long after I got it.  The right front caliper started dragging badly.  Had to replace all the flexible brake lines and clean out the calipers.  The entire job took a whole day, tank off to brakes bled.

 

Galfer and Spiegler make very good PTFE/coated braided stainless brake line kits for most bikes.  

 

https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/cycle-brake-line-kits.html

 

https://galferusa.com/

 

Pics of my adventure here:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kN8PyDxEirl9iVS02

 

iXfCsjw-vDaaiWrNDmYlg5hoLpqej9vWtfx5Fi_L

Hi Lowndes,yes look like original brake lines.Interesting to see your pictures of caliper strip down.Do the halves have "o"rings or just face to face?I have ordered seals from bmw Toronto (I'm in Canada) $180 !!!!

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dirtrider
15 hours ago, GRIPPY said:

Looks as though at least part of the problem is the seals.I removed them all and they have swelled to different diameters.Have ordered new set.The pistons just clack about in the bores without the seals so no problem with them.

 

Morning Grippy

 

Those seals should not be swelled. Those things run in brake fluid their whole life without issues. If the seals are in fact swelled up then something harmful might have entered the brake system (or the seals were cleaned with a petroleum based product). It doesn't take much petroleum based anything to damage the brakes seals or damage the brake hose inside liners.

 

If installing new seals be sure to clean the entire system out using approved brake system cleaners (never any petroleum based cleaner). You might have to check the master cylinder seals & other caliper seals if something foreign entered your brake system  & caused those seals to swell up.

 

Above,  Lowndes   posted about the possible buildup of hose material in the caliper inlets & between the halves (if you find any then  you will for-sure need to replace the rubber hoses as they are degrading quickly.

 

If debris found then try  to clean the calipers out without disassembling the halves as BMW has a warning in the BMW service manual to not take the calipers halves apart, in fact due to the service manual warning BMW doesn't even service the "O" rings between the halves.  At one time BMW had more explanation on the warning about the caliper halves warping  then seeping after re-assembly. Some do get away with disassembly & some don't, BMW warning says don't do it. 

 

 

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GRIPPY
3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Grippy

 

Those seals should not be swelled. Those things run in brake fluid their whole life without issues. If the seals are in fact swelled up then something harmful might have entered the brake system (or the seals were cleaned with a petroleum based product). It doesn't take much petroleum based anything to damage the brakes seals or damage the brake hose inside liners.

 

If installing new seals be sure to clean the entire system out using approved brake system cleaners (never any petroleum based cleaner). You might have to check the master cylinder seals & other caliper seals if something foreign entered your brake system  & caused those seals to swell up.

 

Above,  Lowndes   posted about the possible buildup of hose material in the caliper inlets & between the halves (if you find any then  you will for-sure need to replace the rubber hoses as they are degrading quickly.

 

If debris found then try  to clean the calipers out without disassembling the halves as BMW has a warning in the BMW service manual to not take the calipers halves apart, in fact due to the service manual warning BMW doesn't even service the "O" rings between the halves.  At one time BMW had more explanation on the warning about the caliper halves warping  then seeping after re-assembly. Some do get away with disassembly & some don't, BMW warning says don't do it. 

 

 

The seals are swelled some more than others.The left caliper is working ok as is the rear.Not sure the previous owner did regular maintenance,the air filter is about ready to be changed.

There is a discrepancy on the caliper mount to brake disc of about .020" the position of the wheel is fixed from the bolt end,the other floats not sure what I can do other than shim it.

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dirtrider
30 minutes ago, GRIPPY said:

The seals are swelled some more than others.The left caliper is working ok as is the rear.Not sure the previous owner did regular maintenance,the air filter is about ready to be changed.

There is a discrepancy on the caliper mount to brake disc of about .020" the position of the wheel is fixed from the bolt end,the other floats not sure what I can do other than shim it.

 

 

 

Morning Grippy

 

If one side has swelled up seals then the other side probably isn't far behind as they use the same brake fluid. Something must have contaminate the brake fluid at one time.

 

That .020" doesn't sound like a lot of offset-- the front wheel is located by a spacer between the wheel bearings & a specific bushing (spacer) on each side of the wheel.

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AndyS

Grippy, you are right, that air filter is toast!

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dp-R1100RT

Also my first post.

The first thing that I would check would be the brake hoses.  I have seen hoses collapse internally where the fluid is forced through the hose, but doesn't have enough pressure to flow the other way, and release the pressure.  Results are similar to what you describe.  The old hose expands causing a spongy brake feel, then fluid gets trapped causing the caliper to drag.  25 year old original hoses are a prime candidate for this...

 

Break the hose loose (not completely removed) at the caliper, and then check how easily the calipers operate.  Don't worry about air in the system at this point, whatever part is causing the problem will need to be replaced, and the system bled anyway.  Any 25 year old hoses will need to be replaced anyway, and the entire system flushed and bled at minimum.

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dp-R1100RT

Sorry - first post, hehe I didn't click the notify button.

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Lowndes

"I have ordered seals from bmw Toronto (I'm in Canada) $180 !!!!"   

 

That's about the same price as a whole new caliper!!  Or was.

 

Grippy,

 

Be very careful installing those (VERY expensive) seals!!  Don't know if your calipers are like mine (Brembo), but if they are let me give you a little heads-up.  I did split the halves of both front calipers against the wishes of the manuals.  There was/is a square-section O-ring in a recess around the gallery between the halves, (I think there is a pic in my link above) and was where a plug, my problem was.  The only other thing between the halves was some dirt and traces of moisture corrosion on the aluminum.  All of my seals were pristine after cleaning.

 

You DO NOT necessarily need to split the halves to clean the calipers but it makes it easier.  The pistons and seals can be removed and the galleries blown and swabbed but you just have a hard time seeing what you're doing.  Aside from the warping issues DirtRider outlined above the biggest problem is finding the torque values for the 4 caliper pinch-bolts (two different lengths, same dia. and thread).  I searched and found several torque values that matched for that dia. bolt and thread into aluminum and used it, sorry, can't remember what it was.

 

Here's the fun part: there are two different diameter pistons on each side of each caliper.  Only work on one caliper at a time.  Then there are two seals on each piston, an inner and outer seal.  And one of those two seals, the seal closest to the disc,  is very slightly larger and has a groove in the inner face. The other seal has a square section and can go either way.  That's about it, not technical or difficult, just fiddly, but they really should be thoroughly cleaned while you have the system drained and apart.  

 

It sounds like you might have some off-brand or different model replacement parts on the front end (spacers, wheel bearings, calipers, sliders ??) causing the misalignment.  Any signs of that??

 

 

The hole nearest my thumb (just visible, upper left) is where the gallery seal goes.  The other side is flat - except for the expanded gallery hole.  A bug chunk of decomposed brake line rubber was acting as a check valve here, letting pressure in but not out.

pttSj_oPkq3kAEQpIcmt6nL1V3_p_pCut4gEHpHP

 

 

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GRIPPY
16 hours ago, Lowndes said:

"I have ordered seals from bmw Toronto (I'm in Canada) $180 !!!!"   

 

That's about the same price as a whole new caliper!!  Or was.

 

Grippy,

 

Be very careful installing those (VERY expensive) seals!!  Don't know if your calipers are like mine (Brembo), but if they are let me give you a little heads-up.  I did split the halves of both front calipers against the wishes of the manuals.  There was/is a square-section O-ring in a recess around the gallery between the halves, (I think there is a pic in my link above) and was where a plug, my problem was.  The only other thing between the halves was some dirt and traces of moisture corrosion on the aluminum.  All of my seals were pristine after cleaning.

 

You DO NOT necessarily need to split the halves to clean the calipers but it makes it easier.  The pistons and seals can be removed and the galleries blown and swabbed but you just have a hard time seeing what you're doing.  Aside from the warping issues DirtRider outlined above the biggest problem is finding the torque values for the 4 caliper pinch-bolts (two different lengths, same dia. and thread).  I searched and found several torque values that matched for that dia. bolt and thread into aluminum and used it, sorry, can't remember what it was.

 

Here's the fun part: there are two different diameter pistons on each side of each caliper.  Only work on one caliper at a time.  Then there are two seals on each piston, an inner and outer seal.  And one of those two seals, the seal closest to the disc,  is very slightly larger and has a groove in the inner face. The other seal has a square section and can go either way.  That's about it, not technical or difficult, just fiddly, but they really should be thoroughly cleaned while you have the system drained and apart.  

 

It sounds like you might have some off-brand or different model replacement parts on the front end (spacers, wheel bearings, calipers, sliders ??) causing the misalignment.  Any signs of that??

 

 

The hole nearest my thumb (just visible, upper left) is where the gallery seal goes.  The other side is flat - except for the expanded gallery hole.  A bug chunk of decomposed brake line rubber was acting as a check valve here, letting pressure in but not out.

pttSj_oPkq3kAEQpIcmt6nL1V3_p_pCut4gEHpHP

 

 

Hi Lownds thnks for the info,the good news the seals arrived this morning bad news thats not the problem.I thought that the seals had swelled,not knowing there are two sizes of pistons.I had compared the smaller piston to a larger seal.The seals came with pistons as well it looks as though seals alone are not available.

I have blown out the caliper ports,they do seem to be clear.I take your point about the hoses but the pistons still seem tight on the bench,they blow out easily but there is a fair resistance when pushing back in.

I have the caliper on the bike,having trouble bleeding,no air but spongey lever.Just took the tank off to bleed ABS as well I'm just looking for the correct sequence.

When you split the halves did you reuse the seals?

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dirtrider
10 minutes ago, GRIPPY said:

 

I have the caliper on the bike,having trouble bleeding, no air but spongey lever.Just took the tank off to bleed ABS as well I'm just looking for the correct sequence.

When you split the halves did you reuse the seals?

 

Afternoon Grippy

 

No air but spongey lever usually points to either air trapped in the ABS unit or  soft compliant rubber brake hoses.

 

If no air in the ABS unit then you probably have old  soft brake hoses.

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GRIPPY
1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon Grippy

 

No air but spongey lever usually points to either air trapped in the ABS unit or  soft compliant rubber brake hoses.

 

If no air in the ABS unit then you probably have old  soft brake hoses.

Yes it looks as though they should be replaced even if not the cause of this problem.I'll see if any are availble in Canada.

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dp-R1100RT
33 minutes ago, GRIPPY said:

Yes it looks as though they should be replaced even if not the cause of this problem.I'll see if any are availble in Canada.

That is definitely where I would start.  I would also suggest using aftermarket braided lines, and doing a thorough system flush.  The deteriorating rubber lines will shed rubber "dust/sludge" throughout the system which can also cause some issues.  Years ago, we used pressure bleeder tanks that worked great...  they seem to have mostly gone to vacuum at the bleeder now.

 

With new lines and clean fluid you may find that your brake problem is fixed.  Ordering your parts online will ensure that you are not limited to local parts and prices.

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Lowndes

"When you split the halves did you reuse the seals?"

 

Grippy,

 

Yes, I reused all of the components except for the flexible brake lines.  All the seals and rings were in perfect, "as new" condition, plus I didn't know about Bevel Haven for parts then.

 

Use DOT4 (only) liberally as a lube to reassemble.  Keep wet rags, a spray bottle with water only, and a bucket of water handy while handling DOT4, bleeding or topping off reservoirs.  DOT4 is miscible in water and you can save your paint and plastics with a quick wet rag or squirt. 

 

Also, drop a quarter (or a loony for you) in the handlebar reservoir before pumping/bleeding, it will NOT seal the port but will keep the piston squirt in the reservoir.  

 

Replace the rear brake lines, too.

 

The bleeding procedure for this ABS system is a pain.   I followed it several times and still had a spongy lever.  As Dirt Rider said, the ABS unit can trap some bubbles even with repeated bleeding of the ABS (two nipples per system on top).   Trying to push small bubbles DOWN a tube by pumping from the handlebar is problematic.  The piston is designed for low volume and high pressure when you need the opposite.  I would recommend a MITYVAC.  It's only $35 and since you've already told us you have plenty of money, it's a mere pittance to you!!

 

https://www.amazon.com/MV8000-Automotive-Tune-up-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_7?crid=10TVW9PHKN695&keywords=mityvac&qid=1564694288&s=gateway&sprefix=mityvac%2Caps%2C367&sr=8-7

 

Actually, it allows you to pump fluid in from the bottom pushing the air up and out, and with enough velocity (volume) to remove more trapped air.  

 

I didn't have one at the time, wish I did, have used one since then.  I tried all the tricks, leaning the bike way over left and right and bumping the fittings with a rubber hammer while pumping, let it set overnight with a bungee around the lever and the handlebars turned full left, voodoo spells and some incantations but nothing was working.  I don't think I was a member here yet or had heard of Dirt Rider so I was stumped.  Anyway, someone suggested "riding the bike" to see if the use and road vibration would effect some miracle.  I can testify that pulling out of the drive in hilly terrain with very iffy brakes is a leap of faith.  Well, it worked.  After several miles I could do a one finger panic stop. 

 

I kinda doubt you'll ever find that fix in any manual.  The corporate attorneys would coronary.  And I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT, EITHER!!

 

 

 

 

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dp-R1100RT
9 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

"When you split the halves did you reuse the seals?"

 

Grippy,

 

Yes, I reused all of the components except for the flexible brake lines.  All the seals and rings were in perfect, "as new" condition, plus I didn't know about Bevel Haven for parts then.

 

Use DOT4 (only) liberally as a lube to reassemble.  Keep wet rags, a spray bottle with water only, and a bucket of water handy while handling DOT4, bleeding or topping off reservoirs.  DOT4 is miscible in water and you can save your paint and plastics with a quick wet rag or squirt. 

 

Also, drop a quarter (or a loony for you) in the handlebar reservoir before pumping/bleeding, it will NOT seal the port but will keep the piston squirt in the reservoir.  

 

Replace the rear brake lines, too.

 

The bleeding procedure for this ABS system is a pain.   I followed it several times and still had a spongy lever.  As Dirt Rider said, the ABS unit can trap some bubbles even with repeated bleeding of the ABS (two nipples per system on top).   Trying to push small bubbles DOWN a tube by pumping from the handlebar is problematic.  The piston is designed for low volume and high pressure when you need the opposite.  I would recommend a MITYVAC.  It's only $35 and since you've already told us you have plenty of money, it's a mere pittance to you!!

 

https://www.amazon.com/MV8000-Automotive-Tune-up-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_7?crid=10TVW9PHKN695&keywords=mityvac&qid=1564694288&s=gateway&sprefix=mityvac%2Caps%2C367&sr=8-7

 

Actually, it allows you to pump fluid in from the bottom pushing the air up and out, and with enough velocity (volume) to remove more trapped air.  

 

I didn't have one at the time, wish I did, have used one since then.  I tried all the tricks, leaning the bike way over left and right and bumping the fittings with a rubber hammer while pumping, let it set overnight with a bungee around the lever and the handlebars turned full left, voodoo spells and some incantations but nothing was working.  I don't think I was a member here yet or had heard of Dirt Rider so I was stumped.  Anyway, someone suggested "riding the bike" to see if the use and road vibration would effect some miracle.  I can testify that pulling out of the drive in hilly terrain with very iffy brakes is a leap of faith.  Well, it worked.  After several miles I could do a one finger panic stop. 

 

I kinda doubt you'll ever find that fix in any manual.  The corporate attorneys would coronary.  And I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT, EITHER!!

 

 

 

 

Not to hi-jack the thread, but just a comment about automotive ABS units.  Modern units "require" that the valves in the unit be operated in a specific order during bleeding.  The computer bleeding system to do this is pretty expensive, so the work around is to bleed as much air as possible out of the system, and take the car out for a series of panic stops, followed by more bleeding, more panic stops...  It's a PITA, but it does get the job done.

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dirtrider
23 minutes ago, dp-R1100RT said:

Not to hi-jack the thread, but just a comment about automotive ABS units.  Modern units "require" that the valves in the unit be operated in a specific order during bleeding.  The computer bleeding system to do this is pretty expensive, so the work around is to bleed as much air as possible out of the system, and take the car out for a series of panic stops, followed by more bleeding, more panic stops...  It's a PITA, but it does get the job done.

 

Evening dp-R1100RT

 

That is more for the valve type ABS  systems, the 1100  uses a piston/shaft  displacement type  ABS system with bleeders at the top so the air is fairly easy to get out of the ABS bleeders.  

 

The BMW 1150 uses the I-ABS  power servo system that re-circulates the fluid through the servo pumps back to sump  so those basically self bleed when the servo pumps run.

 

 

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Lowndes

"... the pistons still seem tight on the bench,they blow out easily but there is a fair resistance when pushing back in."

 

GRIPPY,

 

 Yes.  I read somewhere these pistons do not slide in and out for braking but that the seals flex enough to allow the piston to put pressure on the pad.  Remember what Dirt Rider said in the 2nd post here about "inherent return drag", when you spin a wheel you can hear the very slight drag.  It doesn't move much in or out.  As the pads wear the pistons will gradually move outward to accommodate the wear but that seal flex is what draws the piston back in to release the pressure on the pad and allow the wheel to spin.

 

It feels hard for our fingers to move the pistons but a little air or DOT4 will push them out easily.  Don't forget to wet the pistons liberally with DOT4 before replacing them.

 

 

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GRIPPY
14 hours ago, Lowndes said:

"When you split the halves did you reuse the seals?"

 

Grippy,

 

Yes, I reused all of the components except for the flexible brake lines.  All the seals and rings were in perfect, "as new" condition, plus I didn't know about Bevel Haven for parts then.

 

Use DOT4 (only) liberally as a lube to reassemble.  Keep wet rags, a spray bottle with water only, and a bucket of water handy while handling DOT4, bleeding or topping off reservoirs.  DOT4 is miscible in water and you can save your paint and plastics with a quick wet rag or squirt. 

 

Also, drop a quarter (or a loony for you) in the handlebar reservoir before pumping/bleeding, it will NOT seal the port but will keep the piston squirt in the reservoir.  

 

Replace the rear brake lines, too.

 

The bleeding procedure for this ABS system is a pain.   I followed it several times and still had a spongy lever.  As Dirt Rider said, the ABS unit can trap some bubbles even with repeated bleeding of the ABS (two nipples per system on top).   Trying to push small bubbles DOWN a tube by pumping from the handlebar is problematic.  The piston is designed for low volume and high pressure when you need the opposite.  I would recommend a MITYVAC.  It's only $35 and since you've already told us you have plenty of money, it's a mere pittance to you!!

 

https://www.amazon.com/MV8000-Automotive-Tune-up-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_7?crid=10TVW9PHKN695&keywords=mityvac&qid=1564694288&s=gateway&sprefix=mityvac%2Caps%2C367&sr=8-7

 

Actually, it allows you to pump fluid in from the bottom pushing the air up and out, and with enough velocity (volume) to remove more trapped air.  

 

I didn't have one at the time, wish I did, have used one since then.  I tried all the tricks, leaning the bike way over left and right and bumping the fittings with a rubber hammer while pumping, let it set overnight with a bungee around the lever and the handlebars turned full left, voodoo spells and some incantations but nothing was working.  I don't think I was a member here yet or had heard of Dirt Rider so I was stumped.  Anyway, someone suggested "riding the bike" to see if the use and road vibration would effect some miracle.  I can testify that pulling out of the drive in hilly terrain with very iffy brakes is a leap of faith.  Well, it worked.  After several miles I could do a one finger panic stop. 

 

I kinda doubt you'll ever find that fix in any manual.  The corporate attorneys would coronary.  And I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT, EITHER!!

 

 

 

 

I split the halves,blew it out.The "o" ring was split looked as though the halves have been split before.I sourced new "o" ring at local Hydraulic shop.They said it was made from Vicon (a brown colour.I got two,a dollar each.Have ordered the new brake lines from spiegler no idea when they will arrive.

Had one hell of a time freeing off the bleeder on ABS unit,the hex that it is threaded into was turning.Managed eventually but expected the bleeder to snao any time.I am still struggling with the soft lever,about to try again after cup of tea.As for lots of money I will soon have spent more on parts than I did on the bike!

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Lowndes

"...I will soon have spent more on parts than I did on the bike!"

 

GRIPPY,

 

Welcome to "Bring More Wallet".  There was a list of sources for alternative and less expensive BMW parts here somewhere.

 

Not unusual to "invest" in an older new anything, bike, car, house, wife.  Just part of it.  But, I was referring to the big refund you're getting from BMW Toronto!!

 

Viton is a very chemically resistant seal polymer and usually expensive.  Good purchase.

 

I'd guess someone used LocTite on the ABS bleeder.  Some judiciously applied heat (hair dryer) might soften it enough to remove it.  Got to have those working.  Just make sure the ABS unit is NOT leaking at the joint that moved.

 

You will be pleased with the Spieglers.  It usually takes 10 days to 2 weeks.  They fabricate each order separately because of all the color options and mods (bar backs) people make.  They labeled each line so there would be less confusion.  

 

Lowndes

 

 

 

I did away with the T and crossover on the triple clamp, ran two hoses to the calipers from the lower steel tube from the ABS.  Cheaper, simpler, and fewer fittings to leak.  If you've not worked with banjo fittings much, DO NOT touch the banjos or copper seals with ANY metal tools (wrenches, pliars, vise, etc).  The banjo bolt is OK, of course.  

 

 

 

 

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GRIPPY
On 8/2/2019 at 12:44 PM, Lowndes said:

"...I will soon have spent more on parts than I did on the bike!"

 

GRIPPY,

 

Welcome to "Bring More Wallet".  There was a list of sources for alternative and less expensive BMW parts here somewhere.

 

Not unusual to "invest" in an older new anything, bike, car, house, wife.  Just part of it.  But, I was referring to the big refund you're getting from BMW Toronto!!

 

Viton is a very chemically resistant seal polymer and usually expensive.  Good purchase.

 

I'd guess someone used LocTite on the ABS bleeder.  Some judiciously applied heat (hair dryer) might soften it enough to remove it.  Got to have those working.  Just make sure the ABS unit is NOT leaking at the joint that moved.

 

You will be pleased with the Spieglers.  It usually takes 10 days to 2 weeks.  They fabricate each order separately because of all the color options and mods (bar backs) people make.  They labeled each line so there would be less confusion.  

 

Lowndes

 

 

 

I did away with the T and crossover on the triple clamp, ran two hoses to the calipers from the lower steel tube from the ABS.  Cheaper, simpler, and fewer fittings to leak.  If you've not worked with banjo fittings much, DO NOT touch the banjos or copper seals with ANY metal tools (wrenches, pliars, vise, etc).  The banjo bolt is OK, of course.  

 

The brakes re now pretty good,very slight drag and a not too bad lever after a ride.Still had to add about .030" between right cliper and fork mount?Every thing is positioned from the bolt end of the spindle it's as though the right fork is slightly out of position.The guy doing the safety inspection did not like them(the shims) but without them the pad binds hard on the disc.I will start another post for my next problem.Thanks for your help.

 

 

 

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Bill97

New here and read the entire thread before suggesting new brake lines.  Had to do the same to my 'new2me' 97 r1100rt.  The Galfer lines were a perfect fit and solved the problem !  Going forward I flush my brake systems EVERY spring !  

 

BMW Motorad parts are hideously expensive in Toronto and the ones I usually need are not stocked ......

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GRIPPY
6 hours ago, Bill97 said:

New here and read the entire thread before suggesting new brake lines.  Had to do the same to my 'new2me' 97 r1100rt.  The Galfer lines were a perfect fit and solved the problem !  Going forward I flush my brake systems EVERY spring !  

 

BMW Motorad parts are hideously expensive in Toronto and the ones I usually need are not stocked ......

Have now fitted braided lined and all seems good other than a leaking master cylinder.It didn't leak before but looks as though i will need a rebuildkit.

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RogerC60
12 hours ago, GRIPPY said:

Have now fitted braided lined and all seems good other than a leaking master cylinder.It didn't leak before but looks as though i will need a rebuildkit.

Is it the rear? After I replaced my rubber hoses with braided stainless steel my once-good rear master cylinder developed a leak; or so I thought. Turns out one of the copper crush washers didn't seal (even though the banjo bolt was properly torqued) and the brake fluid was running down the push rod, making it appear the leak was in the cylinder.

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GRIPPY
On 8/18/2019 at 10:19 AM, RogerC60 said:

Is it the rear? After I replaced my rubber hoses with braided stainless steel my once-good rear master cylinder developed a leak; or so I thought. Turns out one of the copper crush washers didn't seal (even though the banjo bolt was properly torqued) and the brake fluid was running down the push rod, making it appear the leak was in the cylinder.

No the front,is poolig in brake light switch cover.The seal s badly scored when looking with magnifying glass (did'nt leak before though?).Does any one have a part number for seals only?BMW part or other?I am reluctant to buy the BMW kit.

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AndyS

Hi Grippy.

That is often a problem inasmuch as with the old hoses, the lever only traveled a short distance. However, when the new hoses were fitted and the fluid had to be flushed through, the lever travel is allowed to move fully through its stroke. So the piston along with years of detritus now travel through the seal surface potentially damaging it.

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Michaelr11
11 hours ago, AndyS said:

Hi Grippy.

That is often a problem inasmuch as with the old hoses, the lever only traveled a short distance. However, when the new hoses were fitted and the fluid had to be flushed through, the lever travel is allowed to move fully through its stroke. So the piston along with years of detritus now travel through the seal surface potentially damaging it.

Andy brings up a very important tip for bleeding brakes.  NEVER pull the brake lever or foot pedal further than normal range of travel.  It's easy to do this since there is little resistance when flushing brake fluid and the bleeder is open. Doing that will do just what Andy describes, putting the piston into areas that it normally doesn't travel and potentially damaging the piston or bore causing a leak.

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GRIPPY
2 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

Andy brings up a very important tip for bleeding brakes.  NEVER pull the brake lever or foot pedal further than normal range of travel.  It's easy to do this since there is little resistance when flushing brake fluid and the bleeder is open. Doing that will do just what Andy describes, putting the piston into areas that it normally doesn't travel and potentially damaging the piston or bore causing a leak.

Yes I'm sure that's what happend,the seal is badly scored.Thanks for the explanation.

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