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kruuuzn

R1150RT fuel filter.

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kruuuzn

Ok, ok, I'm slowly working my way through this bike. Everybody has been a big help. Now I've got a couple of gas tank questions.

 

I bought the fuel filter kit from Beemer Boneyard. It has two large o-rings of different diameters and two small o-rings.

I pulled the tank, then the pump, and changed the filter using the largest o-ring when I reassembled it. I then turned the tank right side up and removed the (6) cap screws holding on the plate that's on the top not really knowing what the plate was. I figured maybe the other large o-ring went there. When I removed all the screws the plate popped up under spring pressure so I chickened out and put the screws back in.

 

What's that plate for and what are the (3) remaining o-rings for?

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dirtrider
21 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

Ok, ok, I'm slowly working my way through this bike. Everybody has been a big help. Now I've got a couple of gas tank questions.

 

I bought the fuel filter kit from Beemer Boneyard. It has two large o-rings of different diameters and two small o-rings.

I pulled the tank, then the pump, and changed the filter using the largest o-ring when I reassembled it. I then turned the tank right side up and removed the (6) cap screws holding on the plate that's on the top not really knowing what the plate was. I figured maybe the other large o-ring went there. When I removed all the screws the plate popped up under spring pressure so I chickened out and put the screws back in.

 

What's that plate for and what are the (3) remaining o-rings for?

 

Evening  kruuuzn

 

That is the fuel level sensor tube (has a spring on the bottom of the tube).

 

That tube has a float that rides up & down inside it on 2 fine wires, 2 pig tail wires from  that float tube assembly plug into the back of the fuel pump pass through plate (that is the plate that the fuel pump hangs on).

 

You need to unhook the wires from the back of the pump pass through plate before you can remove & pull that float tube out of the tank.

 

As for "O" rings,  I don't know what Beemer Boneyard sends with their kit so we need "O" ring part numbers or sizes to tell you much (there is one "O"  ring (or 2) that goes around that fuel level tube that is only used to hold the pigtail wires out of harms way (not sure if they sent you that one or not).

 

A call to Beemer Boneyard  asking about included "O" rings will  probably tell you what they fit.

 

RCAUfGQ.jpg

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kioolt

From the Beemerboneyard website.

 

"This kit includes the O-rings for the fuel pump plate and fuel filler cap, and 2 Viton O-rings for the fuel line quick disconnects"

 

Why anyone would change the o-ring on the fuel filler cap just because they changing the fuel filter I have no idea.  My 04 R1150RT has 189k on it and I wouldn't even think of replacing it unless it showed signs of leaking.

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kruuuzn

What exactly is the purpose of the fuel level sensor tube? I thought the float on the pump sent the info to the fuel gauge.

 

Kioolt, you've got 189,000 miles on your bike??

I'm feeling pretty good about my red RT with 32,000 now! LOL

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dirtrider

Evening  kruuuzn

 

Did you replace the U shaped hose that hooks to the fuel filter on the back side of the pump pass through plate?

 

If not then you REALLY SHOULD replace that while you have the tank removed, that U shaped hose is a high pressure hose that has a habit of failing on the BMW 1150 bikes. If (actually more like when) that hose fails it will instantly leave you walking no matter where you are.

 

Way better chance of that hose failing than a fuel filter plugging or the filter giving you problems.  On the older BMW 1100/1150 bikes that U shaped hose is a quickly ticking time bomb.  

 

 

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dirtrider
4 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

What exactly is the purpose of the fuel level sensor tube? I thought the float on the pump sent the info to the fuel gauge.

 

Kioolt, you've got 189,000 miles on your bike??

I'm feeling pretty good about my red RT with 32,000 now! LOL

 

Evening  kruuuzn

 

That tube is for the dash fuel level gauge (it) is what shows how much fuel that you have in the tank.

 

That float on the back of the pump pass through is ONLY for the low fuel warning light.

 

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kruuuzn
24 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Did you replace the U shaped hose that hooks to the fuel filter on the back side of the pump pass through plate?

 

If not then you REALLY SHOULD replace that while you have the tank removed, that U shaped hose is a high pressure hose that has a habit of failing on the BMW 1150 bikes. If (actually more like when) that hose fails it will instantly leave you walking no matter where you are.

 

Way better chance of the hose failing than a fuel filter plugging or the filter giving you problems.  On the older BMW 1100/1150 bikes that U shaped hose is a quickly ticking time bomb.  

 

 

 

Hmmm......I'm not sure which hose you're referring to. The only U-shaped hose I remember was the metal tube between the pump and filter.

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dirtrider
10 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

 

Hmmm......I'm not sure which hose you're referring to. The only U-shaped hose I remember was the metal tube between the pump and filter.

 

Evening  kruuuzn

 

The U shaped hose shown is a special molded, high pressure, fuel submersible hose.

 

They tend to fail very quickly by a sudden hole blowing in the U bend (lots of failures of this hose)  

 

V6X1wtS.jpg

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Michaelr11
40 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening  kruuuzn

 

Did you replace the U shaped hose that hooks to the fuel filter on the back side of the pump pass through plate?

 

If not then you REALLY SHOULD replace that while you have the tank removed, that U shaped hose is a high pressure hose that has a habit of failing on the BMW 1150 bikes. If (actually more like when) that hose fails it will instantly leave you walking no matter where you are.

 

Way better chance of that hose failing than a fuel filter plugging or the filter giving you problems.  On the older BMW 1100/1150 bikes that U shaped hose is a quickly ticking time bomb.  

 

 

 

D.R.   —. My personal experience with the U hose is very different.  I replaced the U hose on my 2001 R1100RT after 12 years, and the hose was in excellent condition; still flexible and no cracks.  Just this week I replaced the hose again, just because I was working on a throttle response/ hunting problem and the fuel filter was due to be replaced anyway. Once again, the old hose was in perfect condition- the new filter corrected the problem. I run this bike just about exclusively on non ethanol gas. I would be comfortable with a 10 to 12 year replacement schedule for that hose. BMW now getting almost $50 for it. All bets are off if you’re using E10 gas.

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dirtrider
25 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

 

D.R.   —. My personal experience with the U hose is very different.  I replaced the U hose on my 2001 R1100RT after 12 years, and the hose was in excellent condition; still flexible and no cracks.  Just this week I replaced the hose again, just because I was working on a throttle response/ hunting problem and the fuel filter was due to be replaced anyway. Once again, the old hose was in perfect condition- the new filter corrected the problem. I run this bike just about exclusively on non ethanol gas. I would be comfortable with a 10 to 12 year replacement schedule for that hose. BMW now getting almost $50 for it. All bets are off if you’re using E10 gas.

 

Evening Michaelr11

 

You really need to cut the hose apart to tell much as a lot of them look perfect on the outside but fail from the inside out. Just a small pin hole or fracture on the inside allows the pressure to get in between the plies then the outside pops a hole then  you're  done riding (DRT).

 

They don't all fail but a lot of them  sure do.  

 

10 years might be a reasonable time frame with good fuel but a failure when on the road far from home will cost way way  more than the hose replacement cost plus you will still need a new hose anyhow.

 

 

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kruuuzn

Well, I haven’t put the tank back on the bike yet so now would be the time.

Is this only a dealer item?

Is there anything else I should be looking for or replacing? There are more rubber hoses beside the u-shaped one.

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Lowndes

Beemer Boneyard has the kits or parts. 

 

Use the correct size of Otiker band clamps like the ones shown in Dirtrider's pics above on the hoses as well.  The other failure mode is the hose popping off the tube.  AMHIK!!

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kruuuzn

I bought the fuel filter kit from BB and it came with the replacement SS clamps. They’re the kind with a screw. I’ve seen good reviews on their clamps. The original band clamps were a bear to get off.

 

I don’t see that u-shaped high pressure hose on their web site.

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AndyS
7 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

 

D.R.   —. My personal experience with the U hose is very different.  I replaced the U hose on my 2001 R1100RT after 12 years, and the hose was in excellent condition; still flexible and no cracks.  

 

Hi Michaelr11, you are fortunate. Leaving an old U hose in the tank  is like playing Russian roulette, it can leave your bike dead in the middle of nowhere. A bit like the HES cables. It might  or might not let you down. As Clint Eastwood once said, "Are you feelin' lucky"! What I am saying, is that while you are in the tank doing stuff, just add the U hose as a matter of course. However, just as important is to make sure you have the correct fuel hose clamps and they are tightened correctly!

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AndyS
9 hours ago, kioolt said:

From the Beemerboneyard website.

 

"This kit includes the O-rings for the fuel pump plate and fuel filler cap, and 2 Viton O-rings for the fuel line quick disconnects"

 

Why anyone would change the o-ring on the fuel filler cap just because they changing the fuel filter I have no idea.  My 04 R1150RT has 189k on it and I wouldn't even think of replacing it unless it showed signs of leaking.

 Some people take their fuel filler off. When you do so, the O ring has expanded due to fuel vapour and can be a pain to refit. So, a new O ring makes the job quicker. However, the original will shrink back to size if left in fresh air for a while. It can then be re-used.

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dirtrider
9 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

Well, I haven’t put the tank back on the bike yet so now would be the time.

Is this only a dealer item?

Is there anything else I should be looking for or replacing? There are more rubber hoses beside the u-shaped one.

 

Morning  kruuuzn

 

Yes & no, it is a dealer  only item for the correct BMW OEM hose. There are some aftermarket work-arounds & even some homemade workarounds. (that is a special fuel resistant internal, fuel submersible external, high pressure molded hose)-- Even a straight piece of that type of hose is not cheap.

 

Personally, I pretty well use the OEM dealer-only-supplied hose as I know that stays attached, fits, & works correctly.  Some of the homemade workarounds leave me wondering how they stay attached as they use a metal line with no barbs on the metal tube. (this is a high pressure situation that can get pretty hot from the hot returning fuel) 

 

The one (or ones) that I sort-of like out in the aftermarket are the ones that use an automotive type convoluted fuel/alcohol  resistant plastic flexible  hose, if based on the correct fuel/alcohol plastic (or whatever) they probably hold up to long-term E-10 fuel submersion better than the BMW OEM rubber submersible hose as that type of submersible convoluted tubbing is used inside the fuel tanks on most modern  fuel injected vehicles (even the BMW 1200 bikes).  (but it has to be made from the correct material)

 

The basic  problems that I have with the convoluted  type tube kits are; that I really can't confirm what material they are actually made from, or what type of durability testing has been done on those kits when continually  submersed in a hot E-10 environment.

 

The other big concern is if the darn thing will stay attached as it is very difficult to PROPERLY attach that type of thin slippery material & have it stay attached under high pressure long term using conventional clamping methods.

 

Those convoluted hose kits just might work but I have no personal confirmation of that & have more doubts than confirmed data showing that they do hold up long-term.

 

 

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kruuuzn

If the U-hose should be replaced how about the other runner hoses in the pump assembly? Or is the issue with the U-hose caused by the fact it has been formed into a U?

Would you consider this a maintenance item? After how many miles/time do you start to worry about it?

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kioolt
3 hours ago, AndyS said:

 Some people take their fuel filler off. When you do so, the O ring has expanded due to fuel vapour and can be a pain to refit. So, a new O ring makes the job quicker. However, the original will shrink back to size if left in fresh air for a while. It can then be re-used.

There is absolutely no reason to take the fuel filler off to change the fuel filter is the point that I was trying to make.  So why do it?

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dirtrider
58 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

If the U-hose should be replaced how about the other runner hoses in the pump assembly?

 

Morning  kruuuzn

 

Good question, those other hoses on the pump assembly don't seem to fail  but if it makes you more comfortable to do so while in there then you can use straight bulk (submersible, fuel injection rated, high pressure) hose & proper clamps to do so. 

 

Now the small diameter hoses that run down through  the fuel from the tank filler neck drain & the tank vent do get hard over time & should be replaced (if those ever leak they can fill your garage with raw gasoline even when you are not home or in the middle of the night).

 

Those (2) small (5mm ID) diameter hoses are another BMW got-ya as they also need to be fuel submersible rated (but not high pressure rated) & are almost impossible to source from an aftermarket source. BMW is a sly old dog as not only are  those hoses expensive but BMW sells them in 1 meter lengths & you can't quite get both hoses from a 1 meter hose. (some have made 1 meter work for both hoses but they are mighty short when you do this)

 

When it comes to things like internal hoses I usually don't consider miles but  to me it is a time thing, hoses submerged in E-10 fuel seem to degrade over time.  I haven't ever tried to put a time on the fuel tank internal hose replacement  but it would depend on type of fuel used, if bike stored for off-season or not, etc.

 

Personally I'm more of a convenience type maintainer so if I have something apart for other maintenance & I know there is possible failure point  I will usually address that area when I have it exposed for other reasons. If I had to guess on that U shaped hose as far as reliable service life goes I would replace it any time I am inside the fuel tank at 5-6 years, if I wasn't inside  the tank for other reasons then I would probably go proactive & replace the U hose in the 8-10 year range (probably closer to 8 if I were planning a trip on that bike).  I'm not saying that U hose will magically fail at 8-10 years but the chance of failure starts increasing rapidly at that stage in life. 

 

7B0MHzn.jpg

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AndyS
1 hour ago, kioolt said:

There is absolutely no reason to take the fuel filler off to change the fuel filter is the point that I was trying to make.  So why do it?

 

No one is saying you should!

That kit serves several models and I believe one O ring is for the lower fuel pump plate and the other may well be for the fuel level unit. However, I am sure the kit is a service kit and you would have all the parts you need for whichever model you are servicing be it R850/1100/1150 and R1200C bike.

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kruuuzn

Okay gang, you've got me thinking........

You know how things snowball...........

 

I pulled my pump unit back out of the tank (after re-installing it with a new filter) with the intention of replacing the u-shaped hose. I found these OEM tubes ARE available at both BB and EME for around $50 like we've been discussing.

Then I noticed the price of a complete fuel pump kit that includes EVERYTHING needed for around $200 (all the rubber hoses, pump, filter, clamps, particulate screen, etc). THEN I started thinking...........my bike IS 15 years old......electrical components have a lifespan............I've already needed to replace the starter................I AM A WORRIER! LOL

So I ordered a complete kit from EME including an extra $50 for vent line tubing. Even though the vent tubes look pretty good they HAVE been submerged in gasoline for the past 180 months!  Now I've got EVERYTHING pulled out of the tank. I figure there's also some value of knowing exactly what's in the tank and how it's all put together so everything came out.

 

But I have one question. I failed to keep track of the vent tubes and I imagine their positions can't be swapped. Can anyone tell me which vent line goes where?

 

Thanks again!

 

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dirtrider
4 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

 

 

But I have one question. I failed to keep track of the vent tubes and I imagine their positions can't be swapped. Can anyone tell me which vent line goes where?

 

 

 

 

Afternoon  kruuuzn

 

If you have the OEM evap can on the rear of bike, and it is still plumbed in, then yes the line position matters.  

 

If no emission evap can on the bike then it doesn't make any difference as then  both hoses vent to atmosphere behind the right side riders foot peg.

 

I can sort explain the vent/drain hose connection but a picture is best-- Just follow the outside vent/drain  hose position to inside the tank position for internal hose connections. (you will probably also see more rust in the water drain connection than the tank vent connection) 

 

While you have the drain hose removed make sure that the little metal tube going through the pump pass through is not rusted shut (water can stay in that area & rust it shut). Also, make sure that the little drain hole is still open in the filler neck (those can also become rust plugged)

 

qspMDKd.jpg

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Lowndes
10 hours ago, AndyS said:

 Some people take their fuel filler off. When you do so, the O ring has expanded due to fuel vapour and can be a pain to refit. So, a new O ring makes the job quicker. However, the original will shrink back to size if left in fresh air for a while. It can then be re-used.

 

Lay that old flange O-ring in the sun on a hot black roof for a couple of hours; it will be out-gasses, shrunk up to the original size, and soft as a Jello shot in 2 hours.

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Lowndes
17 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

I bought the fuel filter kit from BB and it came with the replacement SS clamps. They’re the kind with a screw. I’ve seen good reviews on their clamps. The original band clamps were a bear to get off.

 

Kruuuzn, a small flat blade screwdriver stuck into the loop on the band and twisted will open it .  Or, a pair of lineman pliars or large dykes will cut the loop off and free it up.

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kruuuzn

Thanks again guys!

 

Dirtrider, this is probably a silly question but I'm assuming the filler neck drain (and yes, it needs the rust cleaned out) goes to atmosphere and the tank vent goes to the canister. Correct?

 

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dirtrider
22 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

Thanks again guys!

 

Dirtrider, this is probably a silly question but I'm assuming the filler neck drain (and yes, it needs the rust cleaned out) goes to atmosphere and the tank vent goes to the canister. Correct?

 

 

 

Morning  kruuuzn   

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

With a 15 year old bike that canister is probably fairly useless for it's intended purpose of catching raw hydrocarbons so a lot of BMW riders just remove the darn thing  (it's against the law to remove it but that isn't typically enforced on older vehicles).

 

It can be removed without issue (to the bike anyhow), then the canister  vacuum line plugged off, or followed back along the L/H side of the bike then the entire  vacuum hose removed & the purge valve plugged off.

Or even the entire purge valve with all attached  vacuum lines running to the throttle bodies can be entirely removed  then the bottom nipples on the throttle bodies capped off with vacuum plugs. (entire  canister & purge valve with all related vacuum lines removed)

 

Then, to vent the fuel tank properly without a canister --  Find the vent hose coming  from the fuel tank going to the rear canister, next  find the canister vent hose that  ran from the canister to the R/H side of bike & exits behind the riders R/H foot peg, then just plug those hoses together (basically the tank venting hose is now continuous  & exits behind the riders R/H foot peg with canister removed). Be sure to use a couple of zip ties to hold the hose in place so it doesn't slide down & hang low below the bike  

 

If you remove the canister, or even if you leave it in place & working,  then  you really should cut the end of the hose that exits behind the riders R/H foot peg to have a 45° cut on the end  as that prevents the tank vent system from  sucking road water back into the fuel tank  (or back into the canister) as the fuel is used out of the fuel tank & replaced by outside ambient makeup air (there was a BMW service bulletin on this).

 

Leaving the canister in place & working  is better for the environment (if it still works even a little)  as fuel tank vented fumes (raw hydrocarbons) are a major air polluter.

 

Removing the canister is much better for the motorcycle if you ride in the rain as water can get sucked into the canister through it's vent-to-atmospheres-hose then that black gooey gunk from the canister can end up inside your fuel tank & plug the pump intake sock, plug the fuel filter  & make a mess inside the tank. Cutting the (behind riders foot peg)  vent hose end to 45° does help keep the road water out of the canister though.  

 

If you leave the canister on the bike & it plugs (or gets water into it) that can cause the tank vent to plug &  not allow make-up air into the fuel tank. You do have a plastic fuel tank so the sides simply suck in (like a crushed water bottle)  as the fuel is used out of the tank (so far not a big deal).. BUT! remember that long fuel level sensor tube that we talked about above?  That also gets crushed by the plastic tank side sucking in so now the fuel level float can't slide up & down inside the tube. So then you have an inop fuel gauge due to the stuck float. (back in the BMW 1100/1150 heyday we used to see quite a few crushed fuel level tubes but not many now, probably due to most riders having removed the canister over the years)

 

 

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kruuuzn

Thanks again DR. That explanation was great.

 

If the purge valve is removed what would you recommend doing with the open electrical connector?

Also, just because I’m curious, what is the connector directly below it?

 

 

9E4C6415-997C-4D3E-B0ED-549676CB62C1.jpeg

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CNred

Not sure this is the place or the thread to discuss this, but here goes.

I have a 2003 R1150rt-p with very low miles, (10K). The bike sat for a few years so there was a boat load of maintenance that had to be done. Of course, the fuel pump, filter and all the hoses inside tand outside he tank were pretty  much at the top of the list. After I was finished with this task, a former Police Department Mechanic from a near by City that was tasked with keeping that City's R1150rt-p's running advised me of a cleaver modification involving moving the fuel filter from inside the fuel tank to a position outside the tank and just under the right side throttle body. He indicated it made fuel filter maintenance much easier. I pretty much forgot about this modification until about a week ago when I saw a R1150rt with this modification.

Has anyone here tried this and anyone know thr pros and cons of such a mod.

 

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dirtrider
1 hour ago, CNred said:

Not sure this is the place or the thread to discuss this, but here goes.

I have a 2003 R1150rt-p with very low miles, (10K). The bike sat for a few years so there was a boat load of maintenance that had to be done. Of course, the fuel pump, filter and all the hoses inside tand outside he tank were pretty  much at the top of the list. After I was finished with this task, a former Police Department Mechanic from a near by City that was tasked with keeping that City's R1150rt-p's running advised me of a cleaver modification involving moving the fuel filter from inside the fuel tank to a position outside the tank and just under the right side throttle body. He indicated it made fuel filter maintenance much easier. I pretty much forgot about this modification until about a week ago when I saw a R1150rt with this modification.

Has anyone here tried this and anyone know thr pros and cons of such a mod.

 

 

Morning  CNred

 

Actually this isn't the place to discuss it as that would be hijacking some else's thread from their question/problem to your question/problem.

 

We can sure answer & discuss your question but please start your own tread on your question (you can copy & paste your post here into your new thread if like).

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dirtrider
2 hours ago, CNred said:

Not sure this is the place or the thread to discuss this, but here goes.

I have a 2003 R1150rt-p with very low miles, (10K). The bike sat for a few years so there was a boat load of maintenance that had to be done. Of course, the fuel pump, filter and all the hoses inside tand outside he tank were pretty  much at the top of the list. After I was finished with this task, a former Police Department Mechanic from a near by City that was tasked with keeping that City's R1150rt-p's running advised me of a cleaver modification involving moving the fuel filter from inside the fuel tank to a position outside the tank and just under the right side throttle body. He indicated it made fuel filter maintenance much easier. I pretty much forgot about this modification until about a week ago when I saw a R1150rt with this modification.

Has anyone here tried this and anyone know thr pros and cons of such a mod.

 

 

Morning  kruuuzn  

 

You can just leave the connector hang then secure the loose pigtail with a zip tie (that is what the non evap canister bikes were like from the factory, only they used tape to secure the pigtail), or tape over it, or use a large size heat shrink tube over it, or be creative.

 

On that connector? --  I should know but I don't  off-hand so I will have to guess from memory. I will have to look in my wire diagrams when I get access to them later today or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure that is  the side stand switch connector as the wire colors are close to what I remember  but I don't work on a lot of late 1150RT's any more for  wiring issues. (without looking I might be confusing the 1100 with the 1150)

 

Added: OK, more info -- see if that tag on the wire pigtail (upper left side in your picture) has the part number of   61312305950 or  2305950  on the tag as that is the updated 1150 side stand switch part number. 

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kruuuzn

Thanks DR. I've ridden this bike way too long without knowing what all the components are. LOL

 

Edit: 2305950 it is.

 

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kruuuzn
On 7/12/2019 at 1:08 PM, dirtrider said:

While you have the drain hose removed make sure that the little metal tube going through the pump pass through is not rusted shut (water can stay in that area & rust it shut). Also, make sure that the little drain hole is still open in the filler neck (those can also become rust plugged) 

 

Good tip.

 

Both ends were completely blocked.

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dirtrider
5 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

 

Good tip.

 

Both ends were completely blocked.

 

Morning kruuuzn

 

What I used to do on my personal  1100rt /1150rt /& still do with my 1200rt is to occasionally spray some WD-40 in the filler neck water drain hole then see if it comes out of the drain hose (1100/1150 drain comes out behind the riders R/H foot peg.  

 

That clears the drain hose of standing water & pushes dirt & water through then leaves a coating of WD-40 in the metal pass-throughs.

 

I would do this when I had a can of WD-40 in hand & was near my bikes, or when I thought about it, or after washing the bike.

 

Once that metal pass-through tube starts rusting that removes the protective plating so it rusts back up even easier the next time.   

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kruuuzn

Perfect!

 

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