Slight Grind First to Second Gear

[MichiganBob]

Good Morning,

 

This is my  sixth BMW and every one had an "interesting" transmission starting with my 1971 R75/5. This is a 2018 1200RT with about 400 miles on it. I notice a slight grind from first to second and a very slight grind from second to third and them smooth all the way to 6th. I am old school so I still use the clutch which is when it happens. It's a lot smoother when I powershift. Is this a characteristic of the 2018, something that will go away as it breaks in, or in need of an adjustment? I'm planning on bringing it up and having it documented at the 600 mile checkup. Any feedback is always appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

[realshelby]

Cannot say it won't break in, but at 45,000 or so mine still does it!  Different brands of oil have made it feel and sound different. What I have in it now is way worse. Normal.....

[RecentConvert]

I have the 2014 RT which has a somewhat different transmission than the 2018.  But for my 2014, what you have described is completely normal.  It was torn-down by the local BMW shop and it was found to be within norms.  With 38000 miles on the odometer, it might be a tiny bit better.  Can't remember the last time I attempted a quick, hard shift from first to second.  I don't have the quickshifter as an option.

 

As all have said, I have gotten used to it, but still don't like it.

 

After having a  hole in the valve cover and subsequent oil problem at Torrey, out of necessity we filled the crankcase with automobile oil instead of JASA MA or MA2  motorcycle oil.   This oil was in the crankcase long enough to get to my car/trailer (550 miles).  Perhaps my imagination, but it seemed enough to cause me to note it, it shifted much better for those miles.   Had to keep up with Whip and Rob!    It was drained as soon as I got home.  Makes me wonder though.........

 

Terry

Edited July 8, 2019 by RecentConvert
additional info

[etitanic]

Purchased a 2019 R1250RT, my first BMW, and I note the exact same as you have described. I thought is this just me, break in period, etc. but after 8000 km still there. I as well will mention this at the 10,000 km service just to have it documented. Still can't rule out the operator, LOL.

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Good Morning,

 

This is my  sixth BMW and every one had an "interesting" transmission starting with my 1971 R75/5. This is a 2018 1200RT with about 400 miles on it. I notice a slight grind from first to second and a very slight grind from second to third and them smooth all the way to 6th. I am old school so I still use the clutch which is when it happens. It's a lot smoother when I powershift. Is this a characteristic of the 2018, something that will go away as it breaks in, or in need of an adjustment? I'm planning on bringing it up and having it documented at the 600 mile checkup. Any feedback is always appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

 

 

Afternoon Bob

 

Sort of normal & sort of a shame on a $25,000+ uplevel  motorcycle.

 

Sometimes differed types of motor oil can help a little as that can offer a cleaner clutch release between shifts.

 

My friends 1200WC is pretty bad the way he rides it, but he rides it like an old lady. When I ride it I set the clutch lever to all the way out as that releases the clutch pack farther & I seldom get any grinding or missed shifts like he does.

 

Try different  things like pre-loading the shift lever then a real quick de-clutching on the shift with a forceful foot follow through.

 

On my personal 1200RT (not a wc model)   I seldom use the clutch on 4th through 6th & the shifts are  smooth as silk. (I do use the  clutch for full throttle upshifts though)  

[ron c]

My ‘18 RT with 1200 miles shifts the same way. It is annoying. Upshifting below 2k rpm helps. Also rpm matching between gears helps.

Regards,

Ron C.

[Paul De]

2016 and beyond were said to shift better than '14 and '15 Waterhead RTs.  I road a 2017 loaner for my 12K service and it seemed maybe better but nothing dramatic.  Sadly, at least for the boxer motors, BMW never had the benchmark for smooth shifting.  My '71/5 shifted like a truck, and when I bough a '99 RT I was shocked at how after 28 years it still shifted like a truck. After another 16 years,  my '15 RT  actually shifts way better, like a motorcycle, but still not quite benchmark for smooth shifts. Well, at least I can see progress after 44 years! 

 

There used to be lots of threads on improving shift performance. Oil, preload shiftier, partially disengage clutch, no clutch,  yada-yada.  It all falls under the Zen of shifting a BMW. See the gears, be the gears, envision them gracefully meshing. Ummm-Ummm-Ummm.

[alegerlotz]

41 minutes ago, Paul De said:

2016 and beyond were said to shift better than '14 and '15 Waterhead RTs. ...

 

They changed the transmission starting with the 2017 model year.  The 2016 is the same as the 2014 and 2015.

 

I have a 2016.  It has always shifted at least as well as my 2005 did.  I haven't experienced any grinding and the Shift Assist Pro works fine up and down from 2nd gear (I always use the clutch going 2nd to 1st and usually from 1st to 2nd).

 

 

[Rinkydink]

My 17 RT does it. I keep thinking it will eventually get better. 

[Bill_Walker]

My '15 does it, too.

 

Loud shifts save lives! 

[RPondaRoad]

5 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Good Morning,

 

This is my  sixth BMW and every one had an "interesting" transmission starting with my 1971 R75/5. This is a 2018 1200RT with about 400 miles on it. I notice a slight grind from first to second and a very slight grind from second to third and them smooth all the way to 6th. I am old school so I still use the clutch which is when it happens. It's a lot smoother when I powershift. Is this a characteristic of the 2018, something that will go away as it breaks in, or in need of an adjustment? I'm planning on bringing it up and having it documented at the 600 mile checkup. Any feedback is always appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

My 2018 was/is just like yours.  I was so concerned that I asked the service writer at my shop to include the shifting "problem" in the service documentation at my 600 mile and 6,000 mile services in case it got to be an issue later.  Somewhere after 6,000 miles I noticed that the shifting improved noticeably.  It still "crunches" a little in the gears that you mention sometimes but not all of the time.  The shop said to shift the bike at 4K rpm.  That does seem to help, but I usually don't wait quite that long.  It's just a BMW thing I guess...I'm coming to think of it as part of the bike's "character". 

Edit:  I tried preloading, but it didn't seem to help.  Others have had a different result.

[MichiganBob]

Good Evening.

 

I appreciate all the feedback and feel reassured that I am not alone in the boat. Silly me ... my first BMW in 1971 was an art form to shift. Over 150,000 miles, I figured it out. And "yes," it was a zen connection between me and the bike that got me to that place. Perfect timing, perfect rpm, just the right pressure on the lever to slip it in. Others who ride my bike clunked down the road. I was thinking that in 47 years between my R75/5 and this 1200RT, that the good engineers at BMW figured out how to produce a transmission that would be silky smooth. After all, each consecutive BMW I owned got better in its shifting and my 2012RT was pretty darn good. But, I guess that's wishful thinking.

 

Now for the why. How come my Superhawk was silky smooth? Why does my 81 SR500 shift smoother? Someone once told me its due to the helical cut gears they use for the tranny in the twins. Another said that it is due to the unnatural side to side torque stresses of the twin. And so it goes. I'm just pleased to have self-canceling turn signal lights. That took a while to get.

 

Take good care,

 

Michiganbob

[AndyS]

Well, interesting. My '17 DOES NOT do it. The only crunch / grind is from neutral to first or 2nd to first when stationary and once the engine is warm. When cold, every gear change is like a hot knife through butter - silky smooth. So they don't all do it.

[PadG]

I don't notice anything like that with my '15 RT either!  However, I am very convinced, based on some experience, that how the transmission gets broken in does affect the performance.  I ride my RT fairly hard, and over the years, the transmission had quietened down and smoothed out a great deal.  OTOH, when I was in NZ in 2017, I had rented a 2017 RT with about 18,500 km on the clock.  2017 was the year that the RT's transmission was improved.  This '17 RT shifted much worse than my own '15 RT, and I strongly suspect that the reason is because, being a rental bike used mostly for guided tours (I had just rented the bike on my own), it had received relatively gentle handling over the miles (km).  Let me post a couple of my video to show you what I mean.  Unfortunately, the audio input of the 2 video is different.  Listen to the sound of the shifting in both video.  Watching the video on a desktop computer with reasonable speakers is the best thing to do. 

 

The first video is of a relatively recent ride (Sept. 2018) on my '15 RT.  The microphone is attached to the front of my jacket, and so it picked up every sound that is audible in the quiet area of the cockpit.  The second video is on that '17 RT in NZ, and the audio pickup is from the in helmet microphone, and so the sound is a little muffle.  Fast forward to about 6:51 to hear the shifting.

 

 

 

[MichiganBob]

Interesting rides PadG .. thanks. Any notion about why the way you break in a tranny affects how it shifts?

 

B

[dirtrider]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:28 PM, MichiganBob said:

Good Evening.

 

I appreciate all the feedback and feel reassured that I am not alone in the boat. Silly me ... my first BMW in 1971 was an art form to shift. Over 150,000 miles, I figured it out. And "yes," it was a zen connection between me and the bike that got me to that place. Perfect timing, perfect rpm, just the right pressure on the lever to slip it in. Others who ride my bike clunked down the road. I was thinking that in 47 years between my R75/5 and this 1200RT, that the good engineers at BMW figured out how to produce a transmission that would be silky smooth. After all, each consecutive BMW I owned got better in its shifting and my 2012RT was pretty darn good. But, I guess that's wishful thinking.

 

Now for the why. How come my Superhawk was silky smooth? Why does my 81 SR500 shift smoother? Someone once told me its due to the helical cut gears they use for the tranny in the twins. Another said that it is due to the unnatural side to side torque stresses of the twin. And so it goes. I'm just pleased to have self-canceling turn signal lights. That took a while to get.

 

Take good care,

 

Michiganbob

 

 

Morning Bob

 

Some of the shifting woes are in the transmission & some (a lot) is in the clutch.

 

Motorcycle (non syncro) transmissions are a compromise between easy effortless shifting & sloppy clunking drivetrain play  when in gear.

 

The looser the fit between the male & female shift dog cogs the easier/smoother the trans shifts as the cog engagement alignment is not  as critical as the slider cogs move into precise alignment & slide home. (small cog going into a large slot= easy, small cog going into a small slot=difficult)

 

The downside of sloppy shift dog cog mesh  is lots of drivetrain slop during on/off throttle riding. 

 

As a rule motorcycle transmission designers try  keep the slider mesh slop tighter in the upper gears  as that is where the slop is very noticeable as riders tend to ride in those gears (not just shift through them).

 

It seems like the newer  wethead BMW bikes  have tight  slider mesh even in the lower gears (this makes the bike easier to ride smoothly in the lower gears but makes smooth shifting more difficult.

 

The wethead also has a wet clutch so those tend to not release completely or quickly. The oil between the clutch plates gives the clutch some friction even when released. This slight clutch drag at shifting prevents a clean shift unless the bike is shifted like a rider would without using the clutch. There is just enough clutch release to prevent trans damage but still enough nominal clutch friction to prevent a clean shift.

 

Oil type, oil viscosity, crankcase oil level height all have effects on wet clutch release at shifting. Overfilling the oil level in a wetclutch bike can prevent a clean (quick) clutch release & that can add to the annoying shift quality.

 

If a BMW wethead shifts good using the  shift assist  but not so good when using the clutch then the rider is probably having an issue with full clutch release/shift timing  during their  clutch use shifting.   If the trans shifts poorly even with the shift assist then  the problem  is probably inside the trans or internal to the trans anyhow.

 

Some riders tend to not have any shifting issues even on the more difficult shifting BMW's & some riders seem to have shifting issues even on the better shifting BMW's. The riders that seem to have the least issues are the riders willing to experiment with shifter preload, shift to clutch timing,  RPM at shift point, etc. (ie willing to change their shifting technique until they get acceptable shifting)

 

 

[bendbill]

Thanks, PadG.  A question--on your 1st vid, are you using the Gear Shift Assist for upshifts from 2nd gear onwards?  I ask because your shifts are quick, [ I know I shift leisurely with the clutch].

[PadG]

23 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Interesting rides PadG .. thanks. Any notion about why the way you break in a tranny affects how it shifts?

 

B

None at all.  Just an observation based on my experience.  Early on, I had theorized (as many others did) about the oil level, oil type/brand, but I gave up on all of them now, and give more weight to how the transmission is broken in.  Technically speaking, all gears do require some wearing in, for them to mesh smoothly.  More so, in the old days when gear profile cannot be reproduced with much accuracy.  Nowadays, gears are manufactured to be extremely close to the designed profile, but they still needs to be worn in, due to . . . .  let's just call the sum as manufacturing tolerances.  Riding hard will wear the gear surfaces faster, is the best guess.

[PadG]

6 hours ago, BendBill said:

Thanks, PadG.  A question--on your 1st vid, are you using the Gear Shift Assist for upshifts from 2nd gear onwards?  I ask because your shifts are quick, [ I know I shift leisurely with the clutch].

Direct answer to your question is that, if it's quick shift, then it's most likely with using the shift-assist.  I normally shift very quickly, using the clutch anyway.  Very old habit.  However, I do mix in manual shift when I feel that it will yield better result, which is usually when I can't accelerate at a certain rate after shifting up.  Both my '15 RT and the '17 RT in NZ had shift-assist, and so I ride them both in identical manners.  I was quite frustrated with the '17 RT in the areas where the road was more winding, and I was doing a lot of rapid shifting, up and down.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, PadG said:

None at all.  Just an observation based on my experience.  Early on, I had theorized (as many others did) about the oil level, oil type/brand, but I gave up on all of them now, and give more weight to how the transmission is broken in.  Technically speaking, all gears do require some wearing in, for them to mesh smoothly.  More so, in the old days when gear profile cannot be reproduced with much accuracy.  Nowadays, gears are manufactured to be extremely close to the designed profile, but they still needs to be worn in, due to . . . .  let's just call the sum as manufacturing tolerances.  Riding hard will wear the gear surfaces faster, is the best guess.

 

 

Morning  PadG

 

That was a factor in older transmissions where some gears actually moved as a slider but the 1200 wethead trans has all heilical gear sets that are in constant mesh (all gears are always in full mesh with their mating gear).

 

On the wethead trans only the sliding engagement collars (dogs)  move as the gear sets  remain in a fixed position & in constant mesh with their mating gear.

 

Over time the sliding collars can burnish in slightly with their mating shaft splines but that has little to do with type of break-in & a LOT more to do with just number of times the slider is moved (number of actual shifts)

[Bernie]

Sorry to tell you Bob, it doesn’t get much better with mileage. I am over 25k miles and it does it most times, especially on longer, hotter rides. I am sure it’s a clutch problem. But BMW and my dealer have no intentions to repair the problem. A fellow on the German RT board had his clutch and clutch basket replaced under warranty and it cured his problem. But the dealer never gave him a copy of the repair, since it was done under warranty. Apparently the min- max tolerances are to large of a spread. This is probably done to increase profits and reduce the amount of rejected parts and components. 

Try to shift the bike without using the clutch lever and it will be smooth with no grinding. Also shifting above 5-6000 rpms improves the shift assist. Of course it feels like you are at the start of a drag race. Lol

One trick did improve the shifting was to adjusting the clutch lever to the furthest setting. It helps to better separate the clutch plates. 

PS: my 2007 RT shifted better also. 

[PadG]

22 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning  PadG

 

That was a factor in older transmissions where some gears actually moved as a slider but the 1200 wethead trans has all heilical gear sets that are in constant mesh (all gears are always in full mesh with their mating gear).

 

On the wethead trans only the sliding engagement collars (dogs)  move as the gear sets  remain in a fixed position & in constant mesh with their mating gear.

 

Over time the sliding collars can burnish in slightly with their mating shaft splines but that has little to do with type of break-in & a LOT more to do with just number of times the slider is moved (number of actual shifts)

Good morning DR,

Technically speaking, ALL gears have surfaces that slides against one another when moving.  I don't want to get into gears and gear train design and theory, but I can!

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, PadG said:

Good morning DR,

Technically speaking, ALL gears have surfaces that slides against one another when moving.  I don't want to get into gears and gear train design and theory, but I can!

 

 

Morning PadG

 

Ok, lets do it--

 

So lets  start with, how does the helical gear tooth sliding tooth contact (it does have that we all know that part) effect a constant mesh non syncro gearbox's shifting ability?

[AndyS]

[Bernie]

16 minutes ago, AndyS said:

It’s funny when I posted them question last year, folks never heard of the problem. 

 

[Limecreek]

2016 RS and it snicks through all the gears. Spend a little time experimenting with the gear selection lever adjustment. It does make a difference. It's cured klunky shifts in this bike, the K16GT and the K12GT before that. 

[Paul De]

One aspect of the Wethead transmission that I think helped improve shifting performance VS the oilhead is that the shift lever throw is notably shorter.  On my '99 I road wearing steel toe boots to be sure that most of the shift lever travel was achieved on up shifts and that did help execute smooth up shifts.  It is easier to avoid a lazy lever lift on the Wethead, but I guess it still could happen. I don't think using a steel toe boot would make any difference with a Wethead transmission when using Shift Assist Pro.

[PadG]

23 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning PadG

 

Ok, lets do it--

 

So lets  start with, how does the helical gear tooth sliding tooth contact (it does have that we all know that part) effect a constant mesh non syncro gearbox's shifting ability?

Good morning DR,

 

You still don't get the fact that we are talking about 2 different things here!  What I was saying has absolutely nothing to do with the type of gear train, or gear box. 

 

Any gears, when meshed, will have the contact surfaces that slides with respect to one another.  The holy grail of gear design is to have a perfect rolling surface contact, which means no wears.  That is achievable in theory, and we see that as the profile of the modern gear tooth.  OTOH, it is not practical in practice, because the needs of manufacturing tolerances and the ability to reproduce the theoretical profile of the gear tooth to dead accurate.  So, all gears will have sliding surfaces to one another, when meshed.  Newly manufactured gears will have potentially high and low spots that gets worn in over time.  BTW, one thing that you will notice that a gear train will NEVER mesh even number of tooth per gear with one another.  For example, if you have a 20 tooth gear and want to increase the rpm of the driven shaft by a factor of 2, then the obvious thing to do is to use a 10 tooth gear on the driven shaft.  You will never see that.  What you will see instead is 20 to 9 or 21 to 10.  You do it this way so that the same set of teeth of the two gears will come together as little as possible.  The reason, and why I bought the subject up, is because of the wear that I mentioned earlier on.  You want the gear teeth to wear evenly, and get themselves into stable profile, which you would not have when the same set of teeth meshes with one another constantly.  This wearing in will affect how the gear perform.  Once worn in, the gears will be quieter, and runs a lot smoother.

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, PadG said:

Good morning DR,

 

You still don't get the fact that we are talking about 2 different things here!  What I was saying has absolutely nothing to do with the type of gear train, or gear box. 

 

Any gears, when meshed, will have the contact surfaces that slides with respect to one another.  The holy grail of gear design is to have a perfect rolling surface contact, which means no wears.  That is achievable in theory, and we see that as the profile of the modern gear tooth.  OTOH, it is not practical in practice, because the needs of manufacturing tolerances and the ability to reproduce the theoretical profile of the gear tooth to dead accurate.  So, all gears will have sliding surfaces to one another, when meshed.  Newly manufactured gears will have potentially high and low spots that gets worn in over time.  BTW, one thing that you will notice that a gear train will NEVER mesh even number of tooth per gear with one another.  For example, if you have a 20 tooth gear and want to increase the rpm of the driven shaft by a factor of 2, then the obvious thing to do is to use a 10 tooth gear on the driven shaft.  You will never see that.  What you will see instead is 20 to 9 or 21 to 10.  You do it this way so that the same set of teeth of the two gears will come together as little as possible.  The reason, and why I bought the subject up, is because of the wear that I mentioned earlier on.  You want the gear teeth to wear evenly, and get themselves into stable profile, which you would not have when the same set of teeth meshes with one another constantly.  This wearing in will affect how the gear perform.  Once worn in, the gears will be quieter, and runs a lot smoother.

 

 

Mourning PadG

 

You are correct in that I don't get it.

 

What you explained above is high school level talk as gear high spots, gear tooth odd/even count, tooth profile design, tooth helical angle, smooth tooth contact  all have nothing at all to do with a constant mesh, non syncro, sequential shifting, motorcycle transmission's shifting quality.

 

Smooth meshing gears are nice & can be quieter but---

 

You still haven't answered the question that I asked --- 

 

"How does the helical gear tooth sliding tooth contact (it does have that we all know that part) effect a constant mesh non syncro gearbox's shifting ability?"

[PadG]

Good morning DR, simply that rough meshing gear can affect any shifting.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, PadG said:

Good morning DR, simply that rough meshing gear can affect any shifting.

 

 

Morning PadG

 

Yep, that is simple but still doesn't explain 'how' it effects shifting on a constant mesh gearbox.   

[92Merc]

[wbw6cos]

Classic

[Bill_Walker]

Ignoring the technical discussion, it seems we've reached a conclusion, which, to nobody's surprise, is (all together now!): 

 

THEY ALL DO THAT!

[MichiganBob]

Ha --- you got it Bill. Had my 600 mile checkup yesterday and spoke to the technician after he test road it for five miles. He basically said that it shifts and sounds like a BMW 1200RT tranny. Suggested that I don't use the clutch as much if I want smoother shifts. 

 

So there we go. 

 

B

[JamesW]

I had a similar issue with my FJR.  Was really clunky shifting from neutral to first with clutch disengaged and notchy going from 1st to 2nd.  I removed the clutch pack then separated and cleaned all the disks with kerosene, made a huge difference.  I also learned that if, when in neutral getting ready to shift into first, I pulled the clutch lever in and blipped the throttle to about 2.5 to 3.0K revs then waited a second for the revs to drop back to idle it would shift to first without any clunk whatsoever.  I also short shift from 1st to 2nd at about 2K revs which also results in a quieter shift.  Also short shift the dry clutch R1100 for quieter 1st to 2nd.

 

The clutch friction disks on the wet clutch FJR had some kind of gummy substance on them which the kerosene took care of.  The bike had about 2K miles on the clock when I cleaned the clutch disks.

[realshelby]

FJR's needing work done to them. Opening up the clutch? What is the world coming to.........

[realshelby]

My RT has over 46K miles. I switched oil before the UN trip to New York. Been running Liqui-Moly 5-40. Very good oil, according to the Blackstone Labs report on it ( at over 7000 miles ). Shifting was good, about equal to the Shell Rotella T-6 both when new and nearing drain time. 

 

Since  I am out of warranty I wanted to try a 10-40 oil. Went with Mobil 1 4T. Typically a very well respected oil. I have over 4500 miles on it now. 

 

From day one this oil shifted worse than the liqui-moly or Rotella T-6 did after they had thousands of miles on them! And I mean every gear shift is stiffer and makes more noise. More of a grind with the 1-2 shift. I was NOT expecting this. I am going to assume the thicker viscosity isn't cushioning as expected, but is inducing more drag than the gearbox is designed for. Live and learn. I will probably change this out early. 

[JamesW]

6 minutes ago, realshelby said:

FJR's needing work done to them. Opening up the clutch? What is the world coming to.........

 

Yes, it does give one pause.....

 

There are pluses to the dry clutch.  I did notice an improvement with Rotella as well.

[MichiganBob]

I had good improvement with shifting on one of my former Beemer twins when I put in Red Line Tranny fluid.

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, MichiganBob said:

I had good improvement with shifting on one of my former Beemer twins when I put in Red Line Tranny fluid.

 

AFternoon Bob

 

That is probably not a good idea on the wethead BMW's that we are referring to in this thread as the new wethead 1200 BMW's have the transmission integral to the engine so both the trans & engine use the very same lubricating  oil.

[MichiganBob]

Good late evening Dirtrider,

 

Thank you for the reminder. It takes a little getting used to after 45 years of dry clutches.

 

Bob

[LAF]

20 hours ago, JamesW said:

 

Yes, it does give one pause.....

 

There are pluses to the dry clutch.  I did notice an improvement with Rotella as well.

FJR 's were notorious for needing the clutch plates removed and soaked in oil and then reinstalled.  I replaced mine with a Scorpion clutch and spring set up. 

 

On topic my 17.5 shifts like butter, hot or cold. 

 

It was one of the reasons I got off my 15 RT to the 17.5 GS, a way better shifting transmission.  Night and day for sure.

[Paul4450]

Michigan Bob,

i have a ‘14 RT and it clunks shifting from 1st to 2nd, unless I change my timing between my throttle and clutch. If I roll off the throttle a split second before I pull in the clutch, the clunk/crunch is eliminated or greatly reduced. 

 

I suspect it it has to do with unloading the shift dogs, but all I know is that it works for me. 

 

Have fun fun trying different techniques!

 

Paul

[bendbill]

On original topic, my 2018 shifts smoothly.  At 2500 miles I had Eugene, Oregon dealer do a test ride for a throttle issue last week.  Tech came back after a 20 minute ride and found no throttle problem, but remarked that my RT shifted nicely. 

 

So that's two of us