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EvilTwin

New tires at the dealer

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EvilTwin

My new to me R12RT needs a set of new tires.  I think the current rubber are Michelin PR3's?  I looked at the tire date and I believe they are from 2012.  In any event there is quite the chicken strip on the rear and the front is scalloped.  I am by no means an aggressive rider but want something with good wear and traction (wet and dry).   In the past, I've pulled wheels and gotten the tires mounted myself, but I'm thinking I might let the local dealer do it if the price is within reason.  

 

I'm sure tires have been discussed to death,  but besides Michelins, are there any other brands to consider?  I have Pirelli Diablo tires on the big scoot and have been happy with them.    

 

Also, what would be a ballpark estimate of what a BMW dealer would charge to change the tires with the wheels on the bike.  And is there maintenance that should be done with the rear off?  I'm thinking changing out the rear differential oil.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bob

 

You can see the chicken strip if you squint close enough...

IMG_20190628_200620065.jpg

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dirtrider
19 minutes ago, EvilTwin said:

My new to me R12RT needs a set of new tires.  I think the current rubber are Michelin PR3's?  I looked at the tire date and I believe they are from 2012.  In any event there is quite the chicken strip on the rear and the front is scalloped.  I am by no means an aggressive rider but want something with good wear and traction (wet and dry).   In the past, I've pulled wheels and gotten the tires mounted myself, but I'm thinking I might let the local dealer do it if the price is within reason.  

 

I'm sure tires have been discussed to death,  but besides Michelins, are there any other brands to consider?  I have Pirelli Diablo tires on the big scoot and have been happy with them.    

 

Also, what would be a ballpark estimate of what a BMW dealer would charge to change the tires with the wheels on the bike.  And is there maintenance that should be done with the rear off?  I'm thinking changing out the rear differential oil.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bob

 

You can see the chicken strip if you squint close enough...

 

 

 

Morning Bob

 

Having your local dealer do it might require buying the tires from them (some dealers will change your (supplied)  tires & others wont).

 

Dealer near me will change cuatomer brought in tires but charge WELL over $100.00 to mount & balance (that is with wheels off the bike). Much more with wheels on the bike.

 

Call your dealer to see what THEY charge & if they will mount your tires.

 

Every rider is different so tires  that I like might not be what you need (I ride hard so never get good tire mileage). For my tire selection I look for even wear out to the edges & good traction leaned over, & if I get some decent rain traction that it is always a welcome plus.

 

A lot of independent shops will not change tires on the  BMW  bikes as the rims are easy to damage & they don't want to deal with THEM having to replace the rims on their dime if they damage one. Plus some  (a lot of) independents don't have the proper BMW rear wheel balancer adapter.  

 

As for service with wheels off -- inspect the brake pad thickness, inspect the front wheel bearings (spin test), plus (personally) I always change the final drive gear oil at rear tire change as the rear wheel is already removed & the muffler is already loosened & swung out of the way.

 

If you remove the front wheel yourself watch that the brake calipers don't nick your wheels as you remove them (I use a rag between calipers & rim during removal).

 

Also, be careful of the front wheel speed sensor that you don't hit it & ruin it (probably best to loosen & slide out of the way).

 

Also, be mindful of the front wheel speed sensor wire routing so it can't hit or rub on the brake rotor when riding & hitting bumps.   

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EvilTwin

Thanks, that is good to know.    The dealer is closed on Monday, so I'll ride the bike in tomorrow and get some quotes on the tires and replacement.   I figure if the total bill for the tires and mount is 400 or less, I may let them do it all.   Will also depend if they want to keep the bike for some time or schedule it for a specific day.    

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longjohn

I think the total bill will be way higher than that.  Some members here find that their riding style gets them the same mileage no matter what the brand so they just go with shinkos to save a lot of money. 

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EvilTwin

Looking around on the interwebs a bit, there are folks that do the tire changes themselves.  There are a few manual tire change machines that I've seen going for mid 100's to 2 and up.  I'll have to look at some videos to see how much they help, it may be worth the cost to get one and use it when I need it.    I'll still check with the dealer tomorrow to see what they want for the new tires whether I buy them there or on my own and whether on the bike or just on the wheels.  There is also an independent shop I went to last year for the big scoot.  They charged me 30 per wheel to mount and balance off the bike. 

 

I've got more than a few tools already including a couple of MC lifts.   A few more specialized tools wont break the bank if I know I can get a few uses out of them.  

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Dann

I guess I'm lucky

I remove both wheels from the bike and bring the to the mechanic that fixes my car.

He mounts both tires and balances the rear for $20 (the rear wheel fits on a car balancing machine.)

I balance the front wheel myself when I get home with a manual balancer.

Not worth it for me to invest in a tire changing machine.

 

YMMV

 

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Twisties

Might check Cycle Gear, if you have one near you.  Although I think they would require you to bring the wheel's in, off the bike.  I forget what area you are in.  We probably have some riders near you that could take you through it the first time.  

 

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Living the Dream

Get a set of tire spoons, lay the tires in the sun or if winter, put next to a heat source, easy-peasy.  You can get a balance stand to knock out the front tire, you'll need an adapter for the rear tire but my rear hasn't been balanced in 125000 miles.  If you try to change the tires while cold, it's tool throwing time and extremely frustrating,.....at least to me,....the key is warm rubber.

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EvilTwin

I stopped by the local dealer this afternoon.  He gave me quotes for three different sets of tires mounted.

 

Michelin PR4 GT,   410 for tires and 168 for installation. Total 580 before taxes.

Michelin  PR5 , 380 for the tires, 168 for installation.  552 before taxes.

Pirelli Angel GT 2,  280 for the tire and 168 for installation. Total 450 before taxes.

 

They will not mount any tire they do not sell.  Prices on Pirellis seem to be better than Revzilla  by about 60 bucks.  Prices on the PR4 GT are about 52 more.  The PR 5's are about about 50 more than Revzilla.

 

I've been researching what it would take for me to do the work myself.  I could probably do it with tire irons, rim protectors, etc.  Then I would also need to balance the tires.  Looking at the tools I would buy, I'd probably be at 150-200 for the tools (Including a balance stand and some sort of adapter for the rear to work on the stand).   Once done, I would have the capability to do other sets of tires if needed.  How needed that would be, I cant say.  I figure I would probably ride about 4K miles per year and would hopefully get at least two years out of a set of tires.

 

I could also do the work to remove the tires and drop them off to have them mounted at an independent shop.  I'll figure about 30 for each wheel, but still have to do the work to pull the wheels off and on.  I'll probably also need a tool for the front axle, so maybe 30 or so for that.

 

I've always been a DIY guy.  So buying the tools and the tires and doing it all myself does have an appeal.  Even doing the wheel takeoff and reinstall work would probably save me about 100 over having the dealer do it.  

 

But I also have to look at my current situation (62 going on 63 with a recent shoulder replacement and typical lower back issues that make getting down and up increasingly difficult).   How many more tire swaps I would need to do is also a question.  Maybe another 2 or 3 over the next 6-10 years?   2 jobs may pay for the tools but probably 3 to be well in the black.   

 

So I'd be looking at saving about 160 doing the PR4 Gt's, not including the tool for the front axle.  It would be about 50 for the Pirelli Angel 2 tires.  And the PR5's would be about a 150 saving.  This would be with me taking the tires off and getting them mounted and balanced for 30 each.

 

Any thoughts on going with the Pirelli's over either of the Michelins?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

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dirtrider
16 hours ago, EvilTwin said:

I stopped by the local dealer this afternoon.  He gave me quotes for three different sets of tires mounted.

 

Michelin PR4 GT,   410 for tires and 168 for installation. Total 580 before taxes.

Michelin  PR5 , 380 for the tires, 168 for installation.  552 before taxes.

Pirelli Angel GT 2,  280 for the tire and 168 for installation. Total 450 before taxes.

 

They will not mount any tire they do not sell.  Prices on Pirellis seem to be better than Revzilla  by about 60 bucks.  Prices on the PR4 GT are about 52 more.  The PR 5's are about about 50 more than Revzilla.

 

I've been researching what it would take for me to do the work myself.  I could probably do it with tire irons, rim protectors, etc.  Then I would also need to balance the tires.  Looking at the tools I would buy, I'd probably be at 150-200 for the tools (Including a balance stand and some sort of adapter for the rear to work on the stand).   Once done, I would have the capability to do other sets of tires if needed.  How needed that would be, I cant say.  I figure I would probably ride about 4K miles per year and would hopefully get at least two years out of a set of tires.

 

I could also do the work to remove the tires and drop them off to have them mounted at an independent shop.  I'll figure about 30 for each wheel, but still have to do the work to pull the wheels off and on.  I'll probably also need a tool for the front axle, so maybe 30 or so for that.

 

I've always been a DIY guy.  So buying the tools and the tires and doing it all myself does have an appeal.  Even doing the wheel takeoff and reinstall work would probably save me about 100 over having the dealer do it.  

 

But I also have to look at my current situation (62 going on 63 with a recent shoulder replacement and typical lower back issues that make getting down and up increasingly difficult).   How many more tire swaps I would need to do is also a question.  Maybe another 2 or 3 over the next 6-10 years?   2 jobs may pay for the tools but probably 3 to be well in the black.   

 

So I'd be looking at saving about 160 doing the PR4 Gt's, not including the tool for the front axle.  It would be about 50 for the Pirelli Angel 2 tires.  And the PR5's would be about a 150 saving.  This would be with me taking the tires off and getting them mounted and balanced for 30 each.

 

Any thoughts on going with the Pirelli's over either of the Michelins?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

Afternoon Bob

 

You don't need much of a special tool to remove the front wheel, just go down to your local Lowes & buy a coupling nut (rod tie nut) 7/8" OD (under $3.00). That fits the front axle hex & leaves plenty  of nut sticking out to get a wrench on.  (in fact you should carry that on the bike with you in case you need to remove the front wheel). I drill the nut center out larger on my lathe so it is more hollow as that lightens it even more  for on-bike carry,

 

Static balancers are fairly cheap & you can buy or make the rear wheel balancer adapter).

 

Tire irons & hard plastic (not soft plastic) rim protectors  will work (especially if you put the wheels/tires out in the hot sun for a while before removing/installing. 

 

The rear tire removal/replacement is fairly easy, but the front tire is a PAIN as the rim is narrow & those darn large brake rotors interfere with the tire irons (it is doable with tire irons though).

 

I usually loosen rear wheel first (with bike on side stand, trans in 1st gear,  & rear wheel on the ground), then put bike on the center stand, then-- (important) -- use ratchet strap to tie center stand to front of bike as it is very easy to knock a 1200RT off the center stand when working on it), then loosen the muffler & remove rear muffler bolt then swing the muffler out away from the rear wheel.

 

Then I loosen the front wheel attachments (just loose not removed)  then jack the front of the engine up & remove the brake caliper bolts & loosen the front wheel speed sensor & pull it out slightly so it doesn't get damaged during front wheel removal, then pry the brake pads back into the caliper bores (usually just lift & tilt the calipers with force will push the pistons & pads back), then put a heavy rag between the caliper & rim (to protect rim)  then slide the brake calipers out at an angle. Then remove the front fender front beak, then remove  front axle & wheel.

 

I then re-install the front axle finger tight then slide a long rod through the front axle ( a 2' to 3'  1/2"-drive long extension works good here, then place a short jack stand under each side of that long rod & let the engine jack down until the front bike weight is resting on the extension & jack stands (that should lift the rear wheel off the ground slightly but hold the front end safely & securly without a wheel).

 

Then remove the rear wheel.   

 

 

coupling (tie) nut.JPG

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Living the Dream
4 hours ago, EvilTwin said:

But I also have to look at my current situation (62 going on 63 with a recent shoulder replacement and typical lower back issues that make getting down and up increasingly difficult).   How many more tire swaps I would need to do is also a question.  Maybe another 2 or 3 over the next 6-10 years?   2 jobs may pay for the tools but probably 3 to be well in the black.   

[/quote]

 

I'm doing two sets of tires a year, others are doing more than me easily.

 

 

4 hours ago, EvilTwin said:

So I'd be looking at saving about 160 doing the PR4 Gt's, not including the tool for the front axle.  It would be about 50 for the Pirelli Angel 2 tires.  And the PR5's would be about a 150 saving.  This would be with me taking the tires off and getting them mounted and balanced for 30 each.

 

Bob

 

 

You likely have a spark plug socket in your tool box.  That's all you really need to get the axle off, I've been using my spark plug socket reversed (hex portion into the axle, extension in the open end) no need to buy special if you already have an alternate means.

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aggieengineer

The price you were quoted for the Pirelli set seems quite reasonable. I've actually never had a dealer change a bike tire for me in over 40 years of riding, but I understand that they need to charge a decent bit just to stay in business. 

I used a No-Mar changer for many years, and it was very good, but at the age of about 55 I decided to treat myself to a powered machine. No regrets. I go through two sets of tires a year plus do a set for friends now and then. 

Rocky Mountain ATV is an excellent source for tires, and it seems that there are always rebates going on. They will process the paperwork to save you the trouble.

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Rogerl

Remember you will need to break the tire beads from the rim. Some come off easier than others.

 

Roger L

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szurszewski

I can change tires with hand tools - I’ve even done it with just zipties/straps and a 2x4 (oilhead wheels/tires). It’s not that much fun. I don’t change often enough to justify the cost and space of a nomar or equivalent set up. If it’s conevenient to take a bike, or wheels, and tires to a friend’s house that has a tire changing set up I will do that. Otherwise I will remove the wheels and go to an independent shop that doesn’t mind the work even if I don’t buy tires there. 

 

This works well for me in that I can buy the tires I want at a good price and don’t have to pay dealer shop rates...AND I get to be lazy. Sort of. 

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Ponch

There's a motorcycle tire place a half hour away and the guy is like a nascar tire changer. I take the wheels off and bring them. He'll have them done in 15 minutes. I go for Michelin. PR3s and now PR4s, GTs. Not sure if I'll go for 5's. I might go for the PR4GTs again. 

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longjohn
2 hours ago, Rogerl said:

Remember you will need to break the tire beads from the rim. Some come off easier than others.

 

Roger L

And heating the tire helps immensely.  Use the sun or some type of electro/mechanical device.

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EvilTwin

Right now I'm leaning toward just letting the dealer do the swap.   If he is charging me about 168 labor to do it all and I would pay around 60 or so just to get them mounted and balanced, then its about 100 for the work of removing/installing the wheels.  I could see that taking me the better part of a day, not including the time to take the wheels to the shop to actually change the tires.

 

I will probably see what they want to charge me for the Dunlops and maybe one or two other brands and then go from there.   I'm all for DIY, but I think in this case, I would cost me as  much in time and sore joints as it does in cash.

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Shane J.
15 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I can change tires with hand tools - I’ve even done it with just zipties/straps and a 2x4 (oilhead wheels/tires). It’s not that much fun. I don’t change often enough to justify the cost and space of a nomar or equivalent set up. If it’s conevenient to take a bike, or wheels, and tires to a friend’s house that has a tire changing set up I will do that. Otherwise I will remove the wheels and go to an independent shop that doesn’t mind the work even if I don’t buy tires there. 

 

This works well for me in that I can buy the tires I want at a good price and don’t have to pay dealer shop rates...AND I get to be lazy. Sort of. 

You are always welcome to drop down to my garage and use my electric/pneumatic tire changer. Best tool I ever bought.

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szurszewski
6 hours ago, Shane J. said:

You are always welcome to drop down to my garage and use my electric/pneumatic tire changer. Best tool I ever bought.

Well, I’ve never used something that fancy :)

 

I will have to get to work wearing out my tires...or maybe start shopping for a bike that needs now shoes...hmm....

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aggieengineer

kl.jpg.2ed212f8007346b9fa85b977601e3a6e.jpg

https://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/k-l-37-9997-motorcycle-tire-changer-p/klmc680strongarm2.htm

 

One of these will make you independent from the rim-scratching "professionals" in short order. I won't claim that it's going to save you any money, but the satisfaction of being able to replace short-lived tires 

on your own terms may be worth something. Also, there is some skill still involved. You won't be banging out replacements like the kid at Discount Tire on day one. I still take my time, especially on wheels with TPMS sensors.

Some may scoff at the idea of changing one's own tires, but just remember, there are people in Oregon and New Jersey who would never pump their own gas!

Life's short. Tools are fun. 

 

 

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EvilTwin

Sure, why not.  Maybe I should post some pics of the inside of my garage....

 

I'm dropping the bike off at the dealer this morning.  He gave me a really good price on the Pirelli Angel GT2 A spec tires. 450 installed plus tax.  Cheaper price for the tires themselves than I can buy them for.    Should have it back this afternoon.

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blalor

Which dealer are you going to?

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EvilTwin
1 hour ago, blalor said:

Which dealer are you going to?

This is Adventure BMW in Chesapeake.  I also had a bit of a knock at idle.  Thought it might be one of the ignition sticks, but as it turned out it was a bad cap on one of the throttle bodies causing a vacuum leak.  That was fixed for 47 bucks extra labor.  Color me happy.  Idles much nicer now.

 

 

 

 

IMG_20190711_144745209.jpg

IMG_20190711_144905016.jpg

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aggieengineer

You know you're a certified bike nut when you derive pleasure from the look, feel and smell of a good set of new tires. Future fun in the bank.

I think some of us spend more time evaluating oil and tires than we would a prostate surgeon. 

Risk of a great hobby.

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EvilTwin

If you need a good prostate surgeon, I do have a recommendation....

 

As far as the tires go,  while I was looking them over after dinner, I saw something that made me smile.  I thought I had read that Pirelli was making these tires in China.  Not much you can do about that these days,  lots of car makers are sourcing their tires from Asia.   So I was a bit surprised when I saw "Made in Germany" on the sidewall.  

 

They seemed to handle well enough on the ride home.  It was bloody hot today, up near 90 and humidity to match and there was a good amount of traffic.  I was more focused on just getting home and cooling off then how the bike was handling.   

 

Next up is an oil change along with the rear differential.  I may check the splines for lube as well.  I've watched a couple of videos so far to get an idea of what is involved.

 

 

 

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wolds

Not sure if it was mentioned in any of the comments of this thread but it is money well spent to have a fresh valve stem installed with your tire change. A few years back I was touring out in BigBend and had my stem fail while at lunch in Marathon TX. I thought I was prepared by carrying a plug kit and compressor but I hadn't anticipated a stem failure. Cost me a days riding not to mention trying to find a local shop (AlpineTX) to replace the stem.

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EvilTwin
4 minutes ago, wolds said:

Not sure if it was mentioned in any of the comments of this thread but it is money well spent to have a fresh valve stem installed with your tire change. A few years back I was touring out in BigBend and had my stem fail while at lunch in Marathon TX. I thought I was prepared by carrying a plug kit and compressor but I hadn't anticipated a stem failure. Cost me a days riding not to mention trying to find a local shop (AlpineTX) to replace the stem.

 

I hadn't thought about stems, but they did replace them as a matter of course.   

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