Shop hours for clutch change on R1100RT?

[Luky]

I thought my clutch started slipping last fall whenever I had hard acceleration (RPM would increase buy bike was not going faster) so I basically parked it in the garage and only did a couple of rides around the neighborhood the keep the internal fluids moving now and then.  Finally took it to the shop to have them change it out.  Upon removal of the final drive and swing arm,  the tech said my drive shaft was spun.  I went in and looked at it and could see where the rubber on the shaft was rotated from the main rubber bushing.  They quoted $1056 for a new one, labor included in clutch job.  (Got a used one from ebay bike scrap yard in TX with 31k miles for $103 shipped USPS priority). 

 

I was very surprised at this as my records show I had the drive shaft replaced in Feb 2008 with 70.8k miles and I am now at 79.4k.  Has to be a record to burn out a drive shaft.  (I know I ride it hard but sheeze.) Maybe it was a faulty part but been in the bike too long for warranty claim.  They measured the clutch friction disk and said it was like 4.8 mm and limit is 4.4 mm so I told them to go ahead and replace it since it was already half apart. (Now is someone going to tell me a new one is like 5mm?)

 

Got it back today and the bill was $2315 (was estimated about $2400 so no surprise), including the engine rear seal, trans input seal (these two seals were the main reason I didn't do it myself), new clutch push rod, and a few miscellaneous small parts...  I got home and started comparing the invoice to when I had the same job/parts done back in 2006 (~65k miles) and noted some discrepancies in the billing.  Previously I was charged 8 hours labor (at a different shop in 2006), this time it was 10 hours.  Does  anyone know the "book time" (number of hours) for R&R the clutch on a R1100RT?  Or could you check your old receipts if you had a shop do it and let me know how many hours they billed?

 

The other thing I noted was I got billed for 18 washers @ $2.97 ea (RealOEM shows only 6 required and the BMW shop website lists the part for $1.98 ea).  Billed for 12 screws @ $5.03 ea (RealOEM shows only 6 required and their website lists the part for $4.02 ea).  I noted these two items as the quantities were different from my previous clutch job which made me start looking at every line item. I found five items where I was charged more than their website price and/or the quantity does not match the required qty.  In total I come up with $82.67 overcharged in parts.  And I think I may have been over billed 1 or 2 hours of labor at $105/hr...  So I am very interested if someone can confirm the "book hours" for the clutch job.

 

On top of this when I got home and as I was backing it into my garage, I noted the throttle rev's up to about 4k rpm when I turn the bars all the way to the right (never did this before) and I found a big crack (~4" long) in my right side faring under the mirror when I was wiping the bike down.  I can forgive the crack as I know the panels are brittle and I have a crack right under the head on that panel (they are 20 years old) but it pisses me off they did not say anything about it so this is just the cherry on top of the other issues.

 

So I will be going back tomorrow to resolve the invoice price/qty issues and complain about the throttle cable issue.  It would be helpful to know if I should bitch about the labor hours too.

 

Thanks!

Luky

[szurszewski]

I don't have a repair order to look at right now, but when I first saw your thread title I was thinking "10 hours" - so maybe you just got a good deal last time? As for the other things, no harm asking about the parts - I'd expect the quantities to match for sure, but it's possible they charge a full price in the shop and a discount price to order online. This is a practice I find strange, but it is pretty common across several industries - I just replaced an RV mirror for my dad: called the manufacturer and was told $480. I said, I'm looking at your website and it says $440 - she said, yeah I know but I can't charge you that - you should order it online from us. I almost did, but a quick google found the same part from a retailer for $280! I called and he said, gee - I sold the one I had in stock this weekend, but I can get one drop shipped from the manufacturer to you for that price... So, I got the mirror from the place I called first, but for $200 less than they would sell it to me directly.

 

Sorry for the ramble!

 

I'd not be so forgiving about the crack - the panels shouldn't be that brittle!

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Luky said:

I thought my clutch started slipping last fall whenever I had hard acceleration (RPM would increase buy bike was not going faster) so I basically parked it in the garage and only did a couple of rides around the neighborhood the keep the internal fluids moving now and then.  Finally took it to the shop to have them change it out.  Upon removal of the final drive and swing arm,  the tech said my drive shaft was spun.  I went in and looked at it and could see where the rubber on the shaft was rotated from the main rubber bushing.  They quoted $1056 for a new one, labor included in clutch job.  (Got a used one from ebay bike scrap yard in TX with 31k miles for $103 shipped USPS priority). 

 

I was very surprised at this as my records show I had the drive shaft replaced in Feb 2008 with 70.8k miles and I am now at 79.4k.  Has to be a record to burn out a drive shaft.  (I know I ride it hard but sheeze.) Maybe it was a faulty part but been in the bike too long for warranty claim.  They measured the clutch friction disk and said it was like 4.8 mm and limit is 4.4 mm so I told them to go ahead and replace it since it was already half apart. (Now is someone going to tell me a new one is like 5mm?)

 

Got it back today and the bill was $2315 (was estimated about $2400 so no surprise), including the engine rear seal, trans input seal (these two seals were the main reason I didn't do it myself), new clutch push rod, and a few miscellaneous small parts...  I got home and started comparing the invoice to when I had the same job/parts done back in 2006 (~65k miles) and noted some discrepancies in the billing.  Previously I was charged 8 hours labor (at a different shop in 2006), this time it was 10 hours.  Does  anyone know the "book time" (number of hours) for R&R the clutch on a R1100RT?  Or could you check your old receipts if you had a shop do it and let me know how many hours they billed?

 

The other thing I noted was I got billed for 18 washers @ $2.97 ea (RealOEM shows only 6 required and the BMW shop website lists the part for $1.98 ea).  Billed for 12 screws @ $5.03 ea (RealOEM shows only 6 required and their website lists the part for $4.02 ea).  I noted these two items as the quantities were different from my previous clutch job which made me start looking at every line item. I found five items where I was charged more than their website price and/or the quantity does not match the required qty.  In total I come up with $82.67 overcharged in parts.  And I think I may have been over billed 1 or 2 hours of labor at $105/hr...  So I am very interested if someone can confirm the "book hours" for the clutch job.

 

On top of this when I got home and as I was backing it into my garage, I noted the throttle rev's up to about 4k rpm when I turn the bars all the way to the right (never did this before) and I found a big crack (~4" long) in my right side faring under the mirror when I was wiping the bike down.  I can forgive the crack as I know the panels are brittle and I have a crack right under the head on that panel (they are 20 years old) but it pisses me off they did not say anything about it so this is just the cherry on top of the other issues.

 

So I will be going back tomorrow to resolve the invoice price/qty issues and complain about the throttle cable issue.  It would be helpful to know if I should bitch about the labor hours too.

 

Thanks!

Luky

 

 

Morning Luky

 

On the clutch disk thickness?-- you almost have know what you started with (thickness wise)  as BMW made a running change in the 1100 clutch disk thickness about mid 1100 model run (went to a thinner disk thickness with a thicker pressure plate). That new clutch disk  thickness isn't usually reflected in most BMW service manuals.

 

On the washers & bolts?-- without knowing the parts numbers it is difficult to say but to me it sounds like they had the clutch apart a couple of times for some reason  (some of those bolts & washers are a one-time-use only).

 

I  don't know the book time for a clutch replacement including drive shaft & seals mentioned but that can sort of depend on how it was billed or combined for  some of the individual items, or if the original shop gave you a labor break. (ie, if the book called for 10 hours total but the tec did it in 5 then some shops will knock off a couple of hours & bill for 8)

 

Do go talk to the shop about the discrepancies in labor billing & parts. They will either explain it to your satisfaction, or lie to you, might even adjust it slightly lower (you never know until you try).  At least ask to see the book hours that they used & how they combined the non-core operations.

 

One of the problems I have seen (well heard of anyhow) lately is the old time tec's  retiring & the new breed isn't well versed on the older BMW bikes (they basically learn as they go). So they are not nearly as fast on the older bikes as the old well oiled tec's of the past. In fact some shops won't even work on the older bikes any longer or if they do then only as a  winter fill-in project.

[Skywagon]

Unlikely they will refund money, most shops don't...but if you are nice and professional there is a good chance you can get a credit for future oil change, parts, or other works.  When in dispute....nice works better than a hammer the first couple of times.  Good luck.

[Tri750]

If memory serves the straight clutch R&R is 8hr. for a civilian RT .* 

If the bike is an RT-P, 10-12 minimum depending on how much “P” is intact , BUT add time for extra wiring removal for accessories and add  for trans seals, changing clutch cable , replacing bits related to the clutch actuation.

Again, 8 is for a straight clutch . 

The prices on Real OEM are not current price book. 

Check A&S BMW as they are more up to date . 

By the mothership, the dealer will not reuse the clutch star washers or clutch bolts .

The quantities you were charged for are wrong unless there was some experimentation you requested . 

if THEY messed up, they pay for the extra fasteners .

Communicate with them before you accuse . They are human too. 

They have no reason to not refund the money if owed . 

 

* We have a dealer 60 miles away that has long time tech’s and is in a lonely location and they charge approx 5hr which is about what it takes a seasoned tech to do a straight clutch . I left the local dealership 4-5 yr ago and STILL get calls from customers and I send them up there as the prices are fair and the wait time is much less than the new, local “car style” dealer I left. (for that reason) 

 

[Luky]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning Lucky

 

On the clutch disk thickness?-- you almost have know what you started with (thickness wise)  as BMW made a running change in the 1100 clutch disk thickness about mid 1100 model run (went to a thinner disk thickness with a thicker pressure plate). That new clutch disk  thickness isn't usually reflected in most BMW service manuals.

 

On the washers & bolts?-- without knowing the parts numbers it is difficult to say but to me it sounds like they had the clutch apart a couple of times for some reason  (some of those bolts & washers are a one-time-use only).

 

I  don't know the book time for a clutch replacement including drive shaft & seals mentioned but that can sort of depend on how it was billed or combined for  some of the individual items, or if the original shop gave you a labor break. (ie, if the book called for 10 hours total but the tec did it in 5 then some shops will knock off a couple of hours & bill for 8)

 

Do go talk to the shop about the discrepancies in labor billing & parts. They will either explain it to your satisfaction, or lie to you, might even adjust it slightly lower (you never know until you try).  At least ask to see the book hours that they used & how they combined the non-core operations.

 

One of the problems I have seen (well heard of anyhow) lately is the old time tec's  retiring & the new breed isn't well versed on the older BMW bikes (they basically learn as they go). So they are not nearly as fast on the older bikes as the old well oiled tec's of the past. In fact some shops won't even work on the older bikes any longer or if they do then only as a  winter fill-in project.

 

Hi DR, the screws and washers are 21211454417 and 21211242377.  The parts fiche shows they are 6 per clutch Asm.  The invoice has two line items showing 12 @ $x.xx for the screws/washers and then at the bottom of the list there is a line items for 6 @ $x.xx for the washers again.  The numbers just don't make sense to me...  I am assuming it was an innocent mistake and they will refund the overcharge since I found it.  Sorry, but I don't think I should have to pay for extra parts if they had to take it apart and redo it...  That is why I took it to an "experienced" shop and paid out the wazoo so it is done right the first time. 

 

The Tech that was working on my bike was old school.  He even noted his own initials in my maintenance log that he had done a service on it back in 2002 when he was working at the other "San Diego" BMW MC dealer... 

 

 

8 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I don't have a repair order to look at right now, but when I first saw your thread title I was thinking "10 hours" - so maybe you just got a good deal last time? As for the other things, no harm asking about the parts - I'd expect the quantities to match for sure, but it's possible they charge a full price in the shop and a discount price to order online. This is a practice I find strange, but it is pretty common across several industries - I just replaced an RV mirror for my dad: called the manufacturer and was told $480. I said, I'm looking at your website and it says $440 - she said, yeah I know but I can't charge you that - you should order it online from us. I almost did, but a quick google found the same part from a retailer for $280! I called and he said, gee - I sold the one I had in stock this weekend, but I can get one drop shipped from the manufacturer to you for that price... So, I got the mirror from the place I called first, but for $200 less than they would sell it to me directly.

 

Sorry for the ramble!

 

I'd not be so forgiving about the crack - the panels shouldn't be that brittle!

 

Hi Szurszewski, yep I know what you mean about on-line prices being lower from different retailers,  or even a website being less than  the shelf price (I get this at Target, but that is a national chain and they always match the website price at the register).  I am a huge online shopper for the best to my door cost.  I am just surprised a one location dealership would charge less on it's website (than what they charge walk in customers) and will be even more surprised if they don't "match" the website price when I bring it to their attention.  

 

I'm still a little PO'ed about the crack in the panel but I don't know what they could do about it (if they will even address it).  I don't believe that new ones are available through BMW.  I have the original set in my garage that have been hanging on the wall for about 16 years as back ups.  They both have holes worn through down in front of the toe area from aggressive cornering back in my younger days (I had worn flat spots on the plastic head protectors too) and the Service Manager got them replaced by insurance when I had laid it down once (low speed going around a stop sign corner, my front tire hit some water that was on top of the painted cross walk line and slipped out).  I am thinking a little fiberglass/epoxy on the inside and maybe some bondo on the outside smooth it out and have them repainted...  Will have to see what the cost is vs. if I could find decent condition used ones on line that are not and arm+leg...  Looks like ebay has some for ~$220 a panel in decent condition but would need to be painted black...  (Wonder what Earl Schieb would charge to spray them?    )

 

At this point I've put about $3500 into it the last 2 years (HES, Alt belt, tires, rebuilt the TB's, new clutch, driveshaft, all fluids/filters) which is about the street value of the bike so I need to get some good usage out of it going forward...  And its got to be better mileage than the 13-14 mpg I'm getting in my 550i so I can tell my wife it is "saving me money" by riding to work...  

 

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, Luky said:

 

Hi DR, the screws and washers are 21211454417 and 21211242377.  The parts fiche shows they are 6 per clutch Asm.  The invoice has two line items showing 12 @ $x.xx for the screws/washers and then at the bottom of the list there is a line items for 6 @ $x.xx for the washers again.  The numbers just don't make sense to me...  I am assuming it was an innocent mistake and they will refund the overcharge since I found it.  Sorry, but I don't think I should have to pay for extra parts if they had to take it apart and redo it...  That is why I took it to an "experienced" shop and paid out the wazoo so it is done right the first time. 

 

The Tech that was working on my bike was old school.  He even noted his own initials in my maintenance log that he had done a service on it back in 2002 when he was working at the other "San Diego" BMW MC dealer... 

 

 

 

Afternoon Luky

 

Those were the clutch bolts/washers that are a one time use only that I was referring to above.

 

If the tec removed the clutch again due to you adding another service request then the extra parts are on you. If the tec removed the clutch again because of his screw up then it is on them & they will probably issue you a refund.

 

Probably just a billing mistake as the tec probably removed the clutch again for some reason (2nd thoughts on assembly or on balance alignment) so requested more bolts & washers,  those were then added to the full parts list that was billed to you by mistake. 

 

[Luky]

1 hour ago, Tri750 said:

If memory serves the straight clutch R&R is 8hr. for a civilian RT .* 

If the bike is an RT-P, 10-12 minimum depending on how much “P” is intact , BUT add time for extra wiring removal for accessories and add  for trans seals, changing clutch cable , replacing bits related to the clutch actuation.

Again, 8 is for a straight clutch . 

The prices on Real OEM are not current price book. 

Check A&S BMW as they are more up to date . 

By the mothership, the dealer will not reuse the clutch star washers or clutch bolts .

The quantities you were charged for are wrong unless there was some experimentation you requested . 

if THEY messed up, they pay for the extra fasteners .

Communicate with them before you accuse . They are human too. 

They have no reason to not refund the money if owed . 

 

* We have a dealer 60 miles away that has long time tech’s and is in a lonely location and they charge approx 5hr which is about what it takes a seasoned tech to do a straight clutch . I left the local dealership 4-5 yr ago and STILL get calls from customers and I send them up there as the prices are fair and the wait time is much less than the new, local “car style” dealer I left. (for that reason) 

 

 

Thanks Tri750.  It's a civilian model.  I did not request any experimentation.  So if the book time for a straight clutch is 8 hours, what would be a reasonable time added for R&R the engine rear main seal and trans input shaft seal? (both requested by me). Does not seem like an hour each if you have the right tools and experience...  I also noted they replaced the clutch Rod (PART NUMBER: 21527659112) and TB air bypass screw O-rings (PART NUMBER: 13541341797) but I would think these items are just minutes for R&R when it is all apart. I was surprised they had removed the TB's from the heads when I saw it (to make more room?). Is this normal for doing the clutch?  I believe this is why I am now having the throttle cable issue with the full right lock position of the bars. Any suggestions for an easy way to unfvck this?

[Tri750]

Flat rate times include getting the special tool from the pegboard , removing the old seal, cleaning the area of clutch squeezings, any oil that leaked , prepping the seal for install and installing it . 

the special  tools and parts have to be fetched . 

the TB o-rings are normally replaced with a clutch as often they are distorted when the TB’s are removed so you may have been charged for those or maybe they saved you 8 a piece and reused them . 

the handlebar thing could be one too many zip ties or too tight a zip tie on a cable , or if you have bar-backs something may be hanging up from the top . 

take a breath and look down from the top as you turn the handlebars . check the fast idle area too while your at it . 

a clutch is a major job as you can see by several youtube entries. the many wiring connectors , zip ties to snip and replace , getting the A frame hoist to raise the back half of the bike , the clutch align tool. 

And the flat rate like for cars, trucks, boats,  is based on perfect conditions . 

Not now 20-25 yr old bikes that may have stripped fairing fasteners, corroded bolts, bent fairing brackets , etc . 

 

[Luky]

Hi Tri750, yep I get it.  At the dealer now and the tech said he had to R&R the clutch again as the "adjuster" wasn't working and he had to diagnose it (dirty threads). I get it, so I'll pay for those ( so 12 +12 screws/washers).  Still another set of 6 washers on the invoice and the pricing issues on 5 parts. They are talking to the parts guy now.  Have not said what they might do about the cracked fairing though.

 

I have some zip ties around the throttle cable and some wires at the steering head.  Also have some webbing straps/buckles for my old tank bag tucked in there.  It was doing it when I showed the tech then didn't do it when the service manager looked at it.  The tech said he didnt mess with anything at the top. I will cut the zip ties off and put in new ones that are looser.

[dirtrider]

16 minutes ago, Luky said:

" tech said he had to R&R the clutch again as the "adjuster" wasn't working and he had to diagnose it (dirty threads).

 

 

Afternoons Luky

 

I don't get this, he is supposed to be a seasoned old timer??????  Who in their right mind would remove an 1100 transmission without loosening & freeing up the adjuster before reinstalling the transmission?  

 

You would t-h-i-n-k he knows that the clutch needs to be adjusted after assembly.

 

Did he even check the bearing in the clutch lever when he had it apart? If not then why not??  

 

This might fall under the lying thing that I mentioned above. (might be WAY more to this story than you are being told)

[Tri750]

FWIW,

I agree . 

The extra set of fasteners the service manager should have had charged to service . 

 

[Luky]

So they went through and updated the screw/washer quantities to 6+6, updated the prices on all the parts to match their website (parts manager claimed the old parts manager had set up a small parts "adder" of 5-25% above retail and that's why it showed higher on the invoice vs. the website and he was "fixing it" as they find them (YMMV whether you believe this). They also gave me a 15% discount on one of the expensive clutch parts so I got a refund of just over $120 for paying attention to detail. I work as a Technical Procurement Engineer now so I am used to looking at quotes/numbers to make sure things add up.

 

They take pictures of the bikes when they get them in and agreed the fairing wasn't cracked like that when I brought it in. The service manager asked me to bring the panel back and their body guy would look at repairing it and would also repair the crack down by the exhaust pipe. 

 

Some things seemed a little shady (caveat emptor),  but overall I think they tried to make it right and I'm ok with it.

 

Just did an hour on the local back roads in north San Diego county and the bike is running well.  Glad to be riding it again.  Thanks for the advise and comments everyone. 

[szurszewski]

Good for them for taking pictures at drop off AND admitting the damage. Too bad you had to ask. 

[Tri750]

the issues described appear to be an issue with the tech or the service manager .

the tech is to report anything such as the re-do on the clutch as well as old or new damage when discovered . 

the SM is there to protect the dealership liability and reputation-wise and insure the customer is happy AND make sure the tech is telling him the whole story on each bike, good or bad . 

its a tough balance . 

with the one side of the story we are hearing I suspect the tech needs some retraining as well as the SM who is the one who closes out the RO’s, to pay more attention to each line .

if it’s a busy dealership it’s possible they have a service writer who closes out but ultimately it falls on the SM to check each RO before they are closed out .    

 

 

[Tri750]

“Retraining” 

the bmw word for an old fashion butt chewin. 

higher standard, you know . 

[Luky]

Can anyone confirm if the right and left fairings from a r1150rt will fit a r1100rt?  When I was looking at the parts fiche on realoem.com, it says the r1100rt side fairings are ended, but superceded by the ones used on r1150rt?  It seems the inner fairings by the exhaust manifold are the same on both models too.

[Tri750]

on realoem.com click on the part number and it will list the years and models that particular part fits . 

body panel availability is tricky as for the older bikes , sometimes you can get only primed parts stocked in the U.S. 

painted parts, if listed as available are not really stocked (again we are talking older bikes) but they are ordered from germany where an outside vendor paints them then the part is shipped to the dealership . 

approx time used to be 2 weeks or so which considering the quality of the paint and the logistics pretty good . no decals such as the “RT” are applied . you get to do that . 

obviously on a bike where the panel uses vinyl as a second color, those are applied before shipment . 

 

as far as paint goes, the bike line shares many colors with cars so a body shop can mix that up using the paint code, NOT the color code off the sticker under the seat . the paint code is found on a dealer parts look up such as A&S or Max bmw . 

 

realoem. as we already know has some good features but is not the most current for info or pricing as you found out .  

[Luky]

Yeah, I am aware of shortcomings of realoem.com.  Not looking for new ones but to cross PN for used ones.  Found a pair of the inner fairings on ebay in black/good condition from an r1150rt yesterday and got them for $40 shipped (one of mine is cracked/bubbled from exhaust heat.)

 

I also found there is a part number for a two part spray paint (color + clear) and I can order from BMW shop for about $30.  I might give that a try.

[Tri750]

 

not being in Calif you can’t . 

they may have even stopped altogether .

no paint sent or sold in Calif . 

try Color Rite in SoCal. 

https://www.colorrite.com/

 

[Luky]

57 minutes ago, Tri750 said:

 

not being in Calif you can’t . 

they may have even stopped altogether .

no paint sent or sold in Calif . 

try Color Rite in SoCal. 

https://www.colorrite.com/

 

I can still buy spray paint at Lowes.  Why can't I get it from BMW shop?  I will ask about it when I go by the shop with my farings this weekend. 

 

Actually I wonder what it would cost and how it would look to just get the side fairings wrapped in a gloss black vinyl?  Might be too much geometry for that though...

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Luky said:

I can still buy spray paint at Lowes.  Why can't I get it from BMW shop?  I will ask about it when I go by the shop with my farings this weekend. 

 

Actually I wonder what it would cost and how it would look to just get the side fairings wrapped in a gloss black vinyl?  Might be too much geometry for that though...

 

Morning Luky

 

If you just want gloss black & are not in a big hurry  then you might visit a couple of your local auto body shops & talk nicely to them.

 

A few years ago I needed some plastic motorcycle panels painted basic black so I visited a local auto body shop & asked if they could paint them (base coat/clear coat) next time they had a 2 part black mixed up for a crash repair.  They not only told me they could but gave me a real good price, but said I would have to wait until they were painting black.

 

 So I prepped & primed the panels, covered them, & waited.

 

I got a call about 3 weeks later & they said to bring the prepped panels in-- they turned out just great plus the price was really good. They already had the paint mixed for another job  & my guess is the paint was  covered by the insurance of the vehicle they were painting ( I never asked the details) so it was requested that I pay in cash (no problem).

[szurszewski]

9 hours ago, Luky said:

 

 

Actually I wonder what it would cost and how it would look to just get the side fairings wrapped in a gloss black vinyl?  Might be too much geometry for that though...

 

 

There is is an old thread on here where someone had their RT wrapped and it came out great (pro job). I tried, because I had some left from a car wrap, doing parts of an RT and found that my very low skill level was not a match for all the compound curves. 

[Tri750]

16 hours ago, Luky said:

I can still buy spray paint at Lowes.  Why can't I get it from BMW shop?  I will ask about it when I go by the shop with my farings this weekend. 

 

Actually I wonder what it would cost and how it would look to just get the side fairings wrapped in a gloss black vinyl?  Might be too much geometry for that though...

Take your pick. 

In Cali, the Haz Mat lows are very strict for shipping and storing it, the composition of automotive paints have to be water based , not sure how they deal with touch up. Then storing it at the dealership. 

Some counties, like fresno requires all spray paints be kept under lock and key so overall it is too much of an expense, nightmare so years ago, like 10 ? At least ? Bmw just got out of the touch up paint buisniess in Calif. 

like I say, they may have stopped all together but I would be guessing. 

We used to just buy it from Color Rite or refer the customer to them. 

Exceot for black, it's not going to match anyway due to normal sun fading. 

I found a local auto paint store that used a spectrograph to make up some spray cans of some Honda pearl white for one of my Interceptors and it was perfect.