1994 R1100RS Fuel controller suggestions?

[Ralph1212]

Hi,

 

I'm thinking about getting a fuel controller to smooth out the surging on my R1100RS.  Does anyone have experience with these and how well they get the job done?

 

Thanks,

Ralph

[AndyS]

Hi Ralph, what have you done on the bike so far? Have you had the bike long and established a bulletproof baseline?

Let us know the history of the bike and the things you have done to it. Is it currently totally stock?

 

As for controllers, well, there are people way more qualified than me to chip in here, such as roger 04 rt and dirtrider.

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

Hi,

 

I'm thinking about getting a fuel controller to smooth out the surging on my R1100RS.  Does anyone have experience with these and how well they get the job done?

 

Thanks,

Ralph

 

 

Morning Ralph

 

Depends on the fuel controller, they are not all alike. Some work & others work a little, & some aren't worth the money or effort.

 

I don't have a lot of experience with it but  the best thing going at the moment seems to be the  AF-XIED

 

Search for     roger 04 rt     on this site as he is the expert on the  AF-XIED, it's set up, installation, & adjustment.

 

I would have to check but I believe on the very early (1994) R1100RS there is no CCP (Cat Code Plug) in the fuse box  so in the old days some would cut the in-harness Motronic coding wire & that would improve the surging & ridability.

[Lowndes]

Our bikes are different years and engines ('99 R11S) but THE BIGGEST AND BEST (and cheape$t!!) improvement I made to my S is an AFXIED by NightRider.  There is a tremendous amount of info in this forum and others about these controllers in general and the AFXIED in particular.  

 

http://sales.nightrider.com/xied.html

 

I never had the surging problem but it was VERY "cold natured", stalling easily, difficult to get going after a stop ESPECIALLY an uphill start.  It's an easy install, maybe an hour and a half, tops.  It's adjustable for fine tuning.  It can be removed.  All of the problems I had disappeared, plus the mileage went up slightly and the engine ran cooler.  It made the bike SO MUCH easier to drive.  It lets the engine run like it is supposed to run.  

 

Roger 04RT is the guru here on the AFXIED.  

 

It worked so well on my S that I later bought two more, one for a '99 R11RT and a '00 K1200RS.  I ordered both before I ever picked up either bike and installed them immediately.  

 

NightRider has install wiring harnesses for most bikes with connectors that let you install by plugging into the harness without cutting, soldering, etc, plug and play.

 

I'm just a satisfied customer, NO affiliation with vendors or manufacturers.

[Jim Moore]

The first thing I'd try is removing the cat code plug in your fuse box. That will probably fix it for $0.

[dirtrider]

47 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

The first thing I'd try is removing the cat code plug in your fuse box. That will probably fix it for $0.

 

Afternoon Jim

 

Are you sure that the 1994 1100RS has a CCP in the fuse box? The 1993 1100RS doesn't have a CCP location or CCP as the coding is hard wired into the harness (you need to cut the hard wire to disable the calibration coding)

 

I looked in my files & it isn't clear if the 1994 (or all 1994's)  got a CCP in the fuse box or not  as I have info that shows the early 1994 RS didn't but other info I have doesn't confirm that.

 

 

[Jim Moore]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon Jim

 

Are you sure that the 1994 1100RS has a CCP in the fuse box? The 1993 1100RS doesn't have a CCP location or CCP as the coding is hard wired into the harness (you need to cut the hard wire to disable the calibration coding)

 

I looked in my files & it isn't clear if the 1994 (or all 1994's)  got a CCP in the fuse box or not  as I have info that shows the early 1994 RS didn't but other info I have doesn't confirm that.

 

 

My 94 did. Pulling it was the best thing I ever did to that bike. I do it to every oilhead I own.

[JamesW]

My '94 R1100RSL was built in 06/93 and doesn't have an actual CCP but had the equivalent of the yellow CCP which was just a jumper as part of the wiring harness.  I cut the jumper which amounted to removing a CCP and it made not much if any difference.  Also, my bike does have an O2 sensor.

 

The bike would surge like there was no tomorrow.  Thanks to Roger04 I installed the Innovate Motor Sports LC-2 controller with wideband O2 sensor and all surging was history.  The LC-2 predates the AFXIED and has some features not found on the AFXIED.  Actually that's not really true,  the LC-1 predates the AFXIED with the LC-2 coming along a bit later.  The LC-1 was much more difficult to install than the LC-2 but worked just as well.  I might mention the LC-2 is, I think, still available on Amazon.

 

I also installed a matched set of four port Bosch EV-14 fuel injectors to replace the single port EV-1 units.  This mod was really the frosting on the cake and allowed me to lean the closed loop AFR from 12.9:1 to 13.4:1 which improved the MPG numbers from 41 MPG to around 47 mpg.

 

I really do have a mighty sweet running R1100.

[Ralph1212]

In response to great feedback and several questions:

 

I bought the bike in 4/2018 at 27758 miles.  This RS was manufactured in 6/1993.  Currently has just under 29700 miles on the odometer.  Stock engine.  To my knowledge, the is no CCP because this was the first bike that had the redesigned engine with FI.  So the RS was the “baseline” and then CCPs was added as the RT, R, and GS adopted the new engine, based on the performance needs for each model.  

 

Where would I look for the CCP?

 

I’m the third owner.  Previous owner had it about 19 years; he bought it in 1/1999 at 4147 miles.   I have the services records back to 1995.

 

I just put Pirelli Angel GTs and a new Scorpion glass mat battery in it.  It runs great.  I’m just interested in seeing if I can make it better.   It has ABS but not the info center (fuel level, oil temp, gear indicator).  Old school.  I have to rely on the trip odometer to guesstimate when to fill up and a mental note of which gear I’m in.

 

Cheers,

Ralph

[Jim Moore]

The are two one-inch-square relays in your fuse box. One is the CCP. It's on the second row. The other is the starter relay. If you pull one and the bike won't start, it's the other one. 

 

If you don't have a CCP you can try disconnecting the O2 sensor. that basically does the same thing.

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Ralph1212 said:

In response to great feedback and several questions:

 

I bought the bike in 4/2018 at 27758 miles.  This RS was manufactured in 6/1993.  Currently has just under 29700 miles on the odometer.  Stock engine.  To my knowledge, the is no CCP because this was the first bike that had the redesigned engine with FI.  So the RS was the “baseline” and then CCPs was added as the RT, R, and GS adopted the new engine, based on the performance needs for each model.  

 

Where would I look for the CCP?

 

I’m the third owner.  Previous owner had it about 19 years; he bought it in 1/1999 at 4147 miles.   I have the services records back to 1995.

 

I just put Pirelli Angel GTs and a new Scorpion glass mat battery in it.  It runs great.  I’m just interested in seeing if I can make it better.   It has ABS but not the info center (fuel level, oil temp, gear indicator).  Old school.  I have to rely on the trip odometer to guesstimate when to fill up and a mental note of which gear I’m in.

 

Cheers,

Ralph

 

Morning Ralph

 

Did your early 1100RS come with a catalytic converter from the factory? That is one of the definers on if the bike even has an o2 sensor.  There was also a retro-fit kit to add a catalytic converter  & add a CCP (I'm not personally familiar with that kit, I just know they did exist & some were fitted)

 

I haven't worked on many early 1100RS bikes for engine controls (like o2 sensor & CCP) but I do have some early service bulletins & other  paperwork (not very much electronic info available back then as it was mostly in paper form)

 

JUST disconnecting the o2 sensor (if your bike has one) is not the same as a removing the CCP (if it even has one) or cutting the coding wire (early RS bikes) as disconnecting the ' o2 'only' allows the Motronic to run open loop using the existing lean-idle closed loop calibration mapping.

 

Removing the CCP (later 1100RS bikes) or cutting the coding wire (early 1100RS bikes) allows the Motronic to use a completely different internal open-loop fueling map.

 

It's the different Motronic open loop mapping that can improve the surging as the non-cat open loop mapping usually goes pretty rich at idle  & that richness is just carried up into the light throttle surging range.

 

You have one of those in-betweener bikes that were on the forefront of emission controls so you need to be careful in what you read or  hear about fueling system modifications as some of the later 1100R / RT  modifications won't work on your early 1100RS bike.

 

I an going to default to JamesW on your surging issue as he has a similar build date 1100RS & has done a "lot" of work to remove the surging on his bike.  

[Ralph1212]

Mornin’ DR,

 

My bike did come with the catalytic converter.  I looked in the fuse/relay box for the “Encoding plug for Motronic and catalytic converter” (from the Haynes manual BMW R850 & R1100 4-valve Twins: ‘93 to ‘97).  

 

That slot is empty; doesn’t even have a plug interface to accept a CCP.   Empty space.  My RS is probably very similar to JamesW’s RS and would benefit from the same modifications.

 

James,  according to the Innovate MS website, the LC-2 is available.  Do you recall the part # (3881, 3884, or 3877) and did you install it yourself?  Also, the Bosch EV-14 injector appears to come in an array of sizes; which did you install?

 

Cheers,

Ralph

[dirtrider]

40 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

Mornin’ DR,

 

My bike did come with the catalytic converter.  I looked in the fuse/relay box for the “Encoding plug for Motronic and catalytic converter” (from the Haynes manual BMW R850 & R1100 4-valve Twins: ‘93 to ‘97).  

 

That slot is empty; doesn’t even have a plug interface to accept a CCP.   Empty space.  My RS is probably very similar to JamesW’s RS and would benefit from the same modifications.

 

James,  according to the Innovate MS website, the LC-2 is available.  Do you recall the part # (3881, 3884, or 3877) and did you install it yourself?

 

Ralph

 

 

Morning Ralph

 

It sounds like your bike is the same as the 1993 in that the CCP (coding jumper) is built into the wire harness not a removable CCP in the fuse box.

 

A couple of things to think about--  your era 1100RS came with a single throttle cable & THOSE are a real pain to get a lasting throttle balance as the single cable can walk in the L/H throttle pulley & THAT effects the R/H TB balance. Engine heating also effects the crossover cable length & THAT also effects retaining a good cross side TB balance as the engine goes from cold to hot.

 

It will never be as precise as the later Boden box design with separate lower cables going to the TB's  but there are some  little tricks that can make adjusting the single cable system  work better (most service manuals REALLY miss the point on correctly adjusting the single cable systems). Also, it can be converted to the later much improved Bowden box & twin cable system.

 

You might also look to see if you have the  pigtail with 3 terminal connector on the bike's L/H side for a CO potentiometer to connect to (CO potentiometer was used on the 1100 non cat, non o2 bikes but I'm not sure that it was used on the early vintage 1993/1994 1100RS bikes (we will have to ask JamesW on this).

 

If you do have this 'CO potentiometer' connector then cutting the CCP wire in the harness should  force the Motronic to revert to the non-cat mapping that used the CO potentiometer to lean the idle CO back out for Euro emission requirements.

 

If it doesn't have a CO potentiometer connector then cutting the CCP wire in the harness probably won't gain you much.

 

If you want to spend the time & money  then have JamesW talk you through what he did as he has his early 1100RS running pretty good.

[Ralph1212]

Hey DR,

 

Thanks.  Those are valid points.  My bike is one of the earlier bikes produced, so there are design weaknesses to consider.

 

I realize that any modifications will cost me time and money.  As I said before, the bike performs quite well, aside from surging.  The last thing I want to do is muck things up and have only a thinner wallet to show for it. 😕. 

It may be better to leave well enough alone. 

 

Cheers,

Ralph

[AndyS]

That single throttle cable with the cross-over cable can really contribute to bad fueling. Ultimately you need to make sure your Left - Right throttle bodies are as closely matched as possible with regard to butterfly opening points. This will have a noticeable effect of surging.

[Ralph1212]

Thanks, Andy.  The bike is due soon for the 30k mile maintenance check.  I may want to get that done, and the throttle bodies synced, and then decide what to do.

 

JamesW, I'm still interested in that info about the mods you made.

 

Cheers,

Ralph

[JamesW]

2 hours ago, Ralph1212 said:

Mornin’ DR,

 

My bike did come with the catalytic converter.  I looked in the fuse/relay box for the “Encoding plug for Motronic and catalytic converter” (from the Haynes manual BMW R850 & R1100 4-valve Twins: ‘93 to ‘97).  

 

That slot is empty; doesn’t even have a plug interface to accept a CCP.   Empty space.  My RS is probably very similar to JamesW’s RS and would benefit from the same modifications.

 

James,  according to the Innovate MS website, the LC-2 is available.  Do you recall the part # (3881, 3884, or 3877) and did you install it yourself?  Also, the Bosch EV-14 injector appears to come in an array of sizes; which did you install?

 

Cheers,

Ralph

 

Hi Ralph,  You can buy the LC-2 from Amazon:  Innovate Motorsports (3877) LC-2 Digital Wideband Lambda Controller Kit with Bosch LSU 4.9 O2 Sensor    Costs about $130 and is in stock.

The EV-14 can be purchased in a matched pair from www.tills.de  a German company.  Delivery is very fast via a direct UPS flight from Germany at a surprisingly low cost.

 

Hope this helps.  For more info PM me.

 

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

Thanks, Andy.  The bike is due soon for the 30k mile maintenance check.  I may want to get that done, and the throttle bodies synced, and then decide what to do.

 

JamesW, I'm still interested in that info about the mods you made.

 

Cheers,

Ralph

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

That throttle body sync might be something that you want to do yourself. The early single cable system usually doesn't work out well  having a modern dealer do it  as the procedure is very fiddly (takes more time & attention than most dealer tecs are willing to spend to get it perfect) .  Modern dealers don't have the shop time or the incentive to do a top notch job TB sync on the early systems. You need a dealer with a GOOD tec from that era to know all the little tricks.     

 

It isn't a difficult job & doesn't take any specialized tools but it does take time & dedication to do correctly (something you probably have but most dealers don't have).

 

Surging was a part of the early BMW 1100 bikes,  with persistence & patience most of us 1100 riders could get the surging down to an acceptable level but it wasn't a quick do-this & done, it took some work & persistence.

 

On your 1994 bike it is kind of an outlier so it is even more fidgety to get the surging out of.

 

You don't even know if your present o2 sensor is operating correctly so that is something that needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

 

[Ralph1212]

Thanks DB, I'll definitely keep that in mind.  My R1100RS is "ancient technology" and I'm sure dealerships have a set amount of time they estimate for each job, and try to stick to that.

 

I already checked with the local BMW shop.  Syncing the TBs would be included in the 30k-mile checkup.

[JamesW]

Hi again Ralph,  What DR says about the one cable TB sync is very correct.  Took me some time to figure out how to get it right and now I like the system.  I did stop using the choke control which is really just throttle positioner and not a choke at all.  The problem is when you use the so called choke it throws the TBs way out of sync until you give it full throttle.  I found I had to shut the bike down after warm up then give the throttle a full twist to return to sync then restart.  Hope that makes sense.

[Ralph1212]

James, are you saying I should not use the “choke” at all, or just be prepared to use it, and then full throttle with the engine off to reset the throttle sync?

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, Ralph1212 said:

James, are you saying I should not use the “choke” at all, or just be prepared to use it, and then full throttle with the engine off to reset the throttle sync?

 

 

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

I will let James explain the answer to your question I am just going give you a little background on the why.

 

On the single cable system the cable first runs to the L/H throttle body cam, it makes a loop then is anchored there with a little barrel swaged on the cable  (the barrel fits loosely into  a hole in the throttle body cam), the key word here is fits loosely.

 

From there the cable makes another partial wrap around the cam then continues on as a crossover cable to the R/H throttle body cam.

 

The basic problem is that cable barrel is a somewhat loose fit in the L/H side cam hole as well as the fit wears to become even looser after miles of usage.

 

So, as you use the throttle twist grip the cable takes a set on the L/H cam in the pull direction  as the cable creeps in the cam  track. (migrates tight in the apply direction).

 

What happens when you use the choke is that the  choke cable pulls on the L/H throttle body cam in a different location so it turns the L/H throttle body cam but not the main throttle cable going in (main cable  goes loose). In doing so that allows the main cable to slip in the cam track in the opposite direction to twist grip pull. The crossover cable is still tight but now the L/H throttle body cam is lagging behind the R/H   throttle body cam UNTIL the throttle is fully cycled again using the twist grip.

 

While riding  the  cable will usually equalize itself on the L/H cam  after riding bike for while but the cross-side TB balance can be off a fair bit until it equalizes.

 

The BIG problem is if the choke is used just prior to a throttle body balance  as that skews the cable position on the L/H throttle body cam & makes getting a precise (lasting) TB  balance absolutely  impossible.   

 

The service manuals don't cover or explain this at all, my guess is that 99% of the current  dealer tec's don't know this as  it isn't real common knowledge in the BMW community.

 

Added:   note, the above is ONLY for the single cable systems--it doesn't apply to the later Bowden box split cable systems as on those the choke cable  acts on the pulley inside the Bowden box, not on the L/H TB cam. 

 

 

[JamesW]

What DR says about the choke (fast idle positioner) is correct and is a bit hard to visualize but all true.  The cold starting technique I use is to apply just a wee bit of throttle (NO choke) and crank the engine for about 3 or 4 seconds.  Wait about 3 or 4 seconds then with just a bit of throttle applied crank again and she starts right up.  I let it run with just a bit of throttle for about 30 seconds then engage first and pull away.  Be very careful to avoid excess idling else you will scorch your painted plastic just above the left side exhaust head pipe.  Never ever allow your bike to sit and idle without using a box fan running on high and aimed at the front of the bike to keep things cool.  No, I did not learn these things the hard way thank heavens.

 

As far as the so called choke goes I even removed the choke cable since it's not needed and I don't want the TB sync adversely affected.  These early oilheads have, if nothing else, a ton of personality but once you figure them out they just grow on you and oh do they handle and sound so sweet.

[JamesW]

Well, I see you are nowhere close to me so forget the offer to pay a visit and help.

 

 

[Ralph1212]

Hey everyone.  I did an installation this morning to eliminate the surging problem.  Here's a brief summary:

 

Bike: 1994 R1100RS (Engine: R259/Trans: M93), 29,758 miles

 

Fuel Controller: Nightrider AF-XIED O2 Sensor Manipulator for R1100/K1100 (Rev. G); purchased from Beemer Boneyard

 

The installation took around two hours.  The instructions were easy to follow and went without a hitch.  

 

A few specifics: I was able to use the installed O2 sensor; Boneyard recommends replacing the sensor during the install if it's got 50,000+ miles on it.  They said I should be good using the sensor I have.  I disconnected the battery ground, removed the side panels and propped up the fuel tank to get at the sensor plug.  I used an exacto knife to cut open the sheath containing the sensor wires.  (I wanted to be able to tape it back up after the install).  Reconnected everything (plug, fuel tank, side panels, battery).  Replaced tie wraps where needed.

 

I initially set the AFR adjustment to 6 (14.1) and started the engine.  It started fine but was sputtering a little and had a bit of backfire; I didn't have the choke on.  It stalled without throttle input.  I checked the installation notes and readjusted to 7 (13.8).  I applied the choke and restarted the engine.  This time the engine started and ran fine.  No surge, sputter, or backfire.  What I noticed most was that the engine was idling steady at 800 to 900 rpm.  This is a big deal because in the fourteen months and roughly 2,000 miles I've ridden this bike, it never idled reliably.  Without throttle input it would stall at almost every stop.  I would use the throttlemeister to keep the revs up while stopped, but that created potential issues with throttle control.  With the AF-XIED dialed in, the engine would idle nice and steady at every stop.  Purring like a big kitten.

 

The engine is definitely more usable below 3,000 rpm, even 2,000 rpm.  Before, it would surge and I was better off keeping the revs at or above 4,000.  Today I was able to enter long sweepers at around 2,500 rpm and maintain those revs through the entire bank.  No surging, just steady power.

 

The engine also pulls a lot harder now.  One time I accelerated hard in first and popped the clutch going into second.  It felt like the front wheel wanted to lift up.  Like I was riding my old 1998 VFR.  Another time, I accidentally took off from a stop and I was in second gear (no gear indicator).  I had to ride the clutch a little but the engine had enough torque to not stall.  However, I did stall a few times starting in first.  That was me.  I think the improved performance made me a little complacent.

 

As mentioned in other threads, I figure it will take time, and a few tanks of fuel, for the ECU to settle in with the new settings.  But so far, I'm impressed and very happy.  I have upgraded fuel injectors (EV-14) on the way.  I'll keep you posted.

 

That's all for now.

 

Get riding'!

Ralph

 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, Ralph1212 said:

Hey everyone.  I did an installation this morning to eliminate the surging problem.  Here's a brief summary:

 

Bike: 1994 R1100RS (Engine: R259/Trans: M93), 29,758 miles

 

Fuel Controller: Nightrider AF-XIED O2 Sensor Manipulator for R1100/K1100 (Rev. G); purchased from Beemer Boneyard

 

The installation took around two hours.  The instructions were easy to follow and went without a hitch.  

 

A few specifics: I was able to use the installed O2 sensor; Boneyard recommends replacing the sensor during the install if it's got 50,000+ miles on it.  They said I should be good using the sensor I have.  I disconnected the battery ground, removed the side panels and propped up the fuel tank to get at the sensor plug.  I used an exacto knife to cut open the sheath containing the sensor wires.  (I wanted to be able to tape it back up after the install).  Reconnected everything (plug, fuel tank, side panels, battery).  Replaced tie wraps where needed.

 

I initially set the AFR adjustment to 6 (14.1) and started the engine.  It started fine but was sputtering a little and had a bit of backfire; I didn't have the choke on.  It stalled without throttle input.  I checked the installation notes and readjusted to 7 (13.8).  I applied the choke and restarted the engine.  This time the engine started and ran fine.  No surge, sputter, or backfire.  What I noticed most was that the engine was idling steady at 800 to 900 rpm.  This is a big deal because in the fourteen months and roughly 2,000 miles I've ridden this bike, it never idled reliably.  Without throttle input it would stall at almost every stop.  I would use the throttlemeister to keep the revs up while stopped, but that created potential issues with throttle control.  With the AF-XIED dialed in, the engine would idle nice and steady at every stop.  Purring like a big kitten.

 

The engine is definitely more usable below 3,000 rpm, even 2,000 rpm.  Before, it would surge and I was better off keeping the revs at or above 4,000.  Today I was able to enter long sweepers at around 2,500 rpm and maintain those revs through the entire bank.  No surging, just steady power.

 

The engine also pulls a lot harder now.  One time I accelerated hard in first and popped the clutch going into second.  It felt like the front wheel wanted to lift up.  Like I was riding my old 1998 VFR.  Another time, I accidentally took off from a stop and I was in second gear (no gear indicator).  I had to ride the clutch a little but the engine had enough torque to not stall.  However, I did stall a few times starting in first.  That was me.  I think the improved performance made me a little complacent.

 

As mentioned in other threads, I figure it will take time, and a few tanks of fuel, for the ECU to settle in with the new settings.  But so far, I'm impressed and very happy.  I have upgraded fuel injectors (EV-14) on the way.  I'll keep you posted.

 

That's all for now.

 

Get riding'!

Ralph

 

 

 

Morning Ralph

 

It's sounding like you  are getting a handle on the engine controls & surging elimination.

 

At 25 years of service you might want to budget a new o2 sensor into your future maintenance plans. You can look for a deal on an OEM sensor, or install a universal o2 sensor with a little wire splicing (caution do not solder o2 wire connections).

 

At 30,000 miles that isn't lot of miles on the o2 but it is a lot of time with who knows what was put in the fuel system over those 25 years of use & storage.

 

It does sound like your present o2 is working but the o2  can become lazy over time & miles so response times get slow & voltage swings are ragged or incomplete. (slow o2 response can cause warm engine stalling at a stop)

 

Also, with that low mileage for a 2004 motorcycle that bike has probably seen a lot of short rides so there is a real good chance that the BBS (Big Brass Screws) that control your idle air by-pass & the air passages that are under those screws are heavily coked up.   That causes a low idle RPM & stalling at a stop & can even effect the cold-start stalling.

 

You might want to consider removing the BBS screws & cleaning them (especially the screw tips)  as well as using some o2 sensor & catalytic converter safe carb cleaner to clean the air passages that are under those screws. (put drain hoses on the throttle body lower nipples to drain the cleaner & crud away from the motorcycle during cleaning) 

 

If you do remove the BBS screws  for cleaning, then before removal, count the turns until seated (then write that down)  so you can reinstall right back to where they are now. If you don't note the turns until seated then re-install to the same clocking  you will have a to do a re-balance & idle RPM set.  

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

On 7/7/2019 at 10:04 PM, Ralph1212 said:

Hey everyone.  I did an installation this morning to eliminate the surging problem.  Here's a brief summary:

 

Bike: 1994 R1100RS (Engine: R259/Trans: M93), 29,758 miles

 

Fuel Controller: Nightrider AF-XIED O2 Sensor Manipulator for R1100/K1100 (Rev. G); purchased from Beemer Boneyard

 

The installation took around two hours.  The instructions were easy to follow and went without a hitch.  

 

A few specifics: I was able to use the installed O2 sensor; Boneyard recommends replacing the sensor during the install if it's got 50,000+ miles on it.  They said I should be good using the sensor I have.  I disconnected the battery ground, removed the side panels and propped up the fuel tank to get at the sensor plug.  I used an exacto knife to cut open the sheath containing the sensor wires.  (I wanted to be able to tape it back up after the install).  Reconnected everything (plug, fuel tank, side panels, battery).  Replaced tie wraps where needed.

 

I initially set the AFR adjustment to 6 (14.1) and started the engine.  It started fine but was sputtering a little and had a bit of backfire; I didn't have the choke on.  It stalled without throttle input.  I checked the installation notes and readjusted to 7 (13.8).  I applied the choke and restarted the engine.  This time the engine started and ran fine.  No surge, sputter, or backfire.  What I noticed most was that the engine was idling steady at 800 to 900 rpm.  This is a big deal because in the fourteen months and roughly 2,000 miles I've ridden this bike, it never idled reliably.  Without throttle input it would stall at almost every stop.  I would use the throttlemeister to keep the revs up while stopped, but that created potential issues with throttle control.  With the AF-XIED dialed in, the engine would idle nice and steady at every stop.  Purring like a big kitten.

 

The engine is definitely more usable below 3,000 rpm, even 2,000 rpm.  Before, it would surge and I was better off keeping the revs at or above 4,000.  Today I was able to enter long sweepers at around 2,500 rpm and maintain those revs through the entire bank.  No surging, just steady power.

 

The engine also pulls a lot harder now.  One time I accelerated hard in first and popped the clutch going into second.  It felt like the front wheel wanted to lift up.  Like I was riding my old 1998 VFR.  Another time, I accidentally took off from a stop and I was in second gear (no gear indicator).  I had to ride the clutch a little but the engine had enough torque to not stall.  However, I did stall a few times starting in first.  That was me.  I think the improved performance made me a little complacent.

 

As mentioned in other threads, I figure it will take time, and a few tanks of fuel, for the ECU to settle in with the new settings.  But so far, I'm impressed and very happy.  I have upgraded fuel injectors (EV-14) on the way.  I'll keep you posted.

 

That's all for now.

 

Get riding'!

Ralph

 

 

Ralph, 

I’m really glad to hear that you got a good result. As we discussed by PM, the LC-2 was an option but needing a little specialist skill. 

 

Regarding setting 6 starting, when  both my  oilheads were properly set up, they needed the fast idle lever (choke) on to start and idle well if the engine wasn’t hot. That’s the norm. 

 

Right after installing and and then starting, until the engine is fully hot, the AF-XIED has no influence on fueling. It does it’s thing after the bike enters Closed Loop operation. 

 

Regarding idling at 800-900 rpm, that’s not a place the oilheads want to idle. My data has shown no closed loop and more to the point 1100 rpm (fully warmed up) is the spec. If adjusted idle much above or below 1100, cold starting can be impacted. We had a long thread a few years back where that was demonstrated. 

 

When you get the Matched R1200 injectors your engine might get a little smoother. For the first start and idle they introduce 30% more fuel (until adaptation “fixes” them) so ignore any positive or negative results for the first tank of fuel.

 

i would think that to get a really good TB sync (TPS right, idle right, fast idle right, 1100 rpm to 2500 rpm roll-on balance right, etc.) you’ll need to do it your self. 

[Ralph1212]

Thanks Roger.  I installed the R1100xx Injector upgrade from tills.de yesterday evening.  Not the easiest install if you aren't prepared or experienced.  I rode the bike to work this morning without mishap.

 

I'm sure I'll need to adjust the AF-XIED to accommodate the new injectors.  I have tools arriving via Amazon which will allow me to work on the TB sync.  And I still need to inspect the Big Brass Screws.

 

Please look at the attached photos.  Do you think the longer injector is putting too much bend in the fuel lines?

[roger 04 rt]

Edited for clarity—

 

Ralph, For sure you do NOT need to adjust the AF-XIED. The bike’s Motronic will rebalance your fueling so that it becomes enriched per the afx just like it was before the new injectors. The expected/hoped-for effect of the injectors is a smoother engine from better balance. Fortunately or unfortunately, you may not notice any changes because when the AF-XIED richens the mixture, it makes your bike less sensitive to any injector Imbalance. R1200 spray pattern doesn’t really do that much for the bike since all injectors spray into the TB where fuel vaporizes when the engine is hot. 

 

On on my bike running LC-2 at 13.5:1 I perceived a small increase in smoothness from the tills.de injectors. If you do the statistics on injector matching about one bike in ten should benefit from matched injectors. 

 

Can’t tell about stress from the photo. 

[Ralph1212]

On 7/8/2019 at 7:15 AM, dirtrider said:

 

Also, with that low mileage for a 2004 motorcycle that bike has probably seen a lot of short rides so there is a real good chance that the BBS (Big Brass Screws) that control your idle air by-pass & the air passages that are under those screws are heavily coked up.   That causes a low idle RPM & stalling at a stop & can even effect the cold-start stalling.

 

You might want to consider removing the BBS screws & cleaning them (especially the screw tips)  as well as using some o2 sensor & catalytic converter safe carb cleaner to clean the air passages that are under those screws. (put drain hoses on the throttle body lower nipples to drain the cleaner & crud away from the motorcycle during cleaning) 

 

If you do remove the BBS screws  for cleaning, then before removal, count the turns until seated (then write that down)  so you can reinstall right back to where they are now. If you don't note the turns until seated then re-install to the same clocking  you will have a to do a re-balance & idle RPM set.  

 

 

 

Hi DR, 

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  The BBS are next on my list.  Is there an O2/cat-safe carb spray you would recommend?  Or any brand down at the local auto parts store?

 

Thanks,

Ralph

[Ralph1212]

2 hours ago, roger 04 rt said:

Edited for clarity—

 

Ralph, For sure you do NOT need to adjust the AF-XIED. The bike’s Motronic will rebalance your fueling so that it becomes enriched per the afx just like it was before the new injectors. The expected/hoped-for effect of the injectors is a smoother engine from better balance. Fortunately or unfortunately, you may not notice any changes because when the AF-XIED richens the mixture, it makes your bike less sensitive to any injector Imbalance. R1200 spray pattern doesn’t really do that much for the bike since all injectors spray into the TB where fuel vaporizes when the engine is hot. 

 

On on my bike running LC-2 at 13.5:1 I perceived a small increase in smoothness from the tills.de injectors. If you do the statistics on injector matching about one bike in ten should benefit from matched injectors. 

 

Can’t tell about stress from the photo. 

 

OK, Roger.  I'll leave the AF-XIED as is.  Thanks.

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

 

Hi DR, 

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  The BBS are next on my list.  Is there an O2/cat-safe carb spray you would recommend?  Or any brand down at the local auto parts store?

 

Thanks,

Ralph

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

I usually just grab what's on sale, or cheap anyhow. Just read the carb cleaner can info -- should say "oxygen sensor safe".

[Ralph1212]

4 hours ago, roger 04 rt said:

 

Right after installing and and then starting, until the engine is fully hot, the AF-XIED has no influence on fueling. It does it’s thing after the bike enters Closed Loop operation. 

 

Regarding idling at 800-900 rpm, that’s not a place the oilheads want to idle. My data has shown no closed loop and more to the point 1100 rpm (fully warmed up) is the spec. If adjusted idle much above or below 1100, cold starting can be impacted. We had a long thread a few years back where that was demonstrated. 

 

When you get the Matched R1200 injectors your engine might get a little smoother. For the first start and idle they introduce 30% more fuel (until adaptation “fixes” them) so ignore any positive or negative results for the first tank of fuel.

 

i would think that to get a really good TB sync (TPS right, idle right, fast idle right, 1100 rpm to 2500 rpm roll-on balance right, etc.) you’ll need to do it your self. 

 

Roger, how do I know when the bike enters closed loop operation?  Or is it even necessary for me to know?

 

Regarding idle speed, I noticed that today it was closer to 950-1100rpm warmed up.

[roger 04 rt]

If you have more than 4 bars on the RID, and the TPS voltage at idle is 340 mV +/- 20 mV and the RPM is between 1100 and 1800 RPM, your bike will be in closed loop if it also has a functioning O2 sensor.

 

If you want to confirm, measure the AF-XIED blue wire which will vary between 200 and 800 mV if in closed loop. 

[Ralph1212]

3 hours ago, roger 04 rt said:

If you have more than 4 bars on the RID, and the TPS voltage at idle is 340 mV +/- 20 mV and the RPM is between 1100 and 1800 RPM, your bike will be in closed loop if it also has a functioning O2 sensor.

 

If you want to confirm, measure the AF-XIED blue wire which will vary between 200 and 800 mV if in closed loop. 

 

If I'm understanding you,  RID refers to the Rider Information Display (fuel level, oil temp, gear display).  My RS doesn't have it.  It was optional on the '94.

[roger 04 rt]

Yes, Rider Information Display. Without one, take a five or six mile ride or wait 5 minutes at idle with fans directed at your cylinder heads and oil cooler. That will get it hot enough for Closed Loop. 

[Ralph1212]

Let me ask you this, Roger.  I've thought about this since I acquired the bike.  I know I can get a RID unit at BBoneyard or eBay.  How difficult would it be to hook one up so everything works?

(Fuel level, oil temp, and gear indicator)

 

At the very least, even a generic oil temp gauge..

 

Thanks,

Ralph

[roger 04 rt]

It wouldn’t be easy. Here’s a rough schematic of how it is wired into the RT: https://www.mac-pac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/R1100RT-Elec-Diagram-V2_2.pdf

[Ralph1212]

I spoke with Beemer Boneyard yesterday and Bob's BMW this morning.  Boneyard couldn't tell me much, but they do have used RIDs available. Bob's looked up the VIN but there wasn't much info in the database.  But the shop foreman (and I) think that all '93/'94 R1100RS were pre-wired for all the available options.  So it may be a simple plug-n-play.  If it worked then I would also need to replace the right inside fairing.  It's a big 'if'.

[Ralph1212]

Hi all.  An update:

Following all the advice, on my RS I checked the plugs, valve clearance, TB sync and idle(BBS).  Plugs and vc needed little or no adjustment,  the TB sync was darn close already.  DR, you were right, the BBS were coked pretty good.  I cleaned them with TB cleaner.  

 

The L and R BBS were 2.5 and 2.0 rotations from seated; idle was 900-950 rpm.  After I cleaned the screws and seats, I dialed them out until 5.5 and 5.0 rotations to get an idle of 1000-ish rpm.  Someone please confirm this was the correct action to increase the idle.

 

A big thank you to JamesW's.  With his help I was able to confirm my '94 RS was pre-wired at the factory for the RID, but never installed (see photo).  

 

Anyone know of a good solvent to clean electrical contact unused for 25 years?

[wbw6cos]

9 hours ago, Ralph1212 said:

 

 

......................Anyone know of a good solvent to clean electrical contact unused for 25 years?

 

Just use some electrical contact cleaner found in most auto supply stores.  I also use a mini-file tool, which can bought as a kit that has various sized files in it.  I spray the contacts and then scrape them with a file that fits in there.  Sometimes I use the contact cleaner and  these to get in tight spots.

[Ralph1212]

Another update:

 

It looks like BMW did indeed preinstall the wiring and sensors in 1993 for the optional RID on the '94 R1100RS.  I was able to get a RID from Beemer Boneyard and it was plug-n-play (see photo).  

 

Roger, the RID oil temp is at five bars and the bike is idling around 1000 rpm.  Would you consider this closed loop?  The bike is on its second tank of fuel since the AF-XIED was installed.  I'll go on the assumption that the Motronic is still adjusting.  The BBSs does little for the idle speed adjustment; there may be a blockage somewhere.  I'm running Techron through the fuel system to see if it opens any clogs.

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

  The BBSs does little for the idle speed adjustment; there may be a blockage somewhere.  I'm running Techron through the fuel system to see if it opens any clogs.

 

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

Techron wil not help the BBS screws as those only flow AIR  (by-pass air) not fuel so the Techron will not get to the BBS screws or air passages under them.  

 

If you want to clean the BBS area then you need to remove the BBS screws & clean the screws & air passages under them manually.  

[Ralph1212]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

Techron wil not help the BBS screws as those only flow AIR  (by-pass air) not fuel so the Techron will not get to the BBS screws or air passages under them.  

 

If you want to clean the BBS area then you need to remove the BBS screws & clean the screws & air passages under them manually.  

 

Afternoon DR,

 

The BBS screws were already removed and cleaned with TB cleaner.  The passages were sprayed with same and scrubbed with a small carb cleaning brush five days ago.

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

 

Afternoon DR,

 

The BBS screws were already removed and cleaned with TB cleaner.  The passages were sprayed with same and scrubbed with a small carb cleaning brush five days ago.

 

Afternoon Ralph

 

If the BBS passages are for sure clean then the BBS should allow idle RPM change (within reason).

 

I was just responding to you on the BBS part, Roger is working with you on the fueling part & I don't want to interfere with that or have you do something that isn't in his plan  so lets wait until Roger responds.

 

If he doesn't respond in a day or so I will l come back & work you through the BBS troubleshooting.

 

 

[Still CAL]

Just got a 94 R1100RS (build date 05-93) and was wondering if the OP has a follow-up for this thread. 

[Ralph1212]

Hi 'Still CAL',

 

Since my last post on this thread (about a year ago), I can report that my '94 R1100RS has been a reliable and very enjoyable ride.  It starts the first time, every time; no issues with engine stalling, surging, or roughness.  Let me know if you have any questions.  Glad to answer them if I can.

[Still CAL]

So the AF-XIED is the way to go? And are you still running the BBS's and 5-6 turns out?

[Ralph1212]

For me, the AF-XIED was definitely the way to go.  On my '94 R1100RS; changing to a different CCP was not an option as it would be with later model R1100xx.  

Two other changes which I believe improved the performance was replacing the battery and (maybe) replacing the injectors with 1200xx versions.  The battery was 12 years old when I bought the bike.  A new one made a big difference.  To my knowledge, all the injector upgrade does is change the fuel spray pattern from single jet to quad jet for better air/fuel mixing.  

 

I haven't gone back to read the entire thread; whatever I wrote regarding BBS settings should still be accurate.

[Still CAL]

2 minutes ago, Ralph1212 said:

For me, the AF-XIED was definitely the way to go.  On my '94 R1100RS; changing to a different CCP was not an option as it would be with later model R1100xx.  

Two other changes which I believe improved the performance was replacing the battery and (maybe) replacing the injectors with 1200xx versions.  The battery was 12 years old when I bought the bike.  A new one made a big difference.  To my knowledge, all the injector upgrade does is change the fuel spray pattern from single jet to quad jet for better air/fuel mixing.  

 

I haven't gone back to read the entire thread; whatever I wrote regarding BBS settings should still be accurate.

Thanks for the update. I had already ordered injectors from tills.de before reading this thread, as they made a difference on my RT. I also knew an RID could be retrofitted because I borrowed the one in the RT and tried it. One of those is coming also. 
 

The HES will be on its way to gsaddict here in the next few days, he does excellent work. I’m going to attempt the Bowden box retrofit when those parts get here. Anyway thanks for your replies, I think I’ve got the AF-XIED in a shopping cart somewhere, probably BBY. Seems like a great investment for the R’s.