Here we go.... Drive Shaft Replacement Attempt....

[Twisties]

In today's installment...  got the bike on the lift...  a little adventure in and of itself since it wouldn't roll forward.  Ended up backing the trailer up to the lift and rolling the bike directly onto the lift, at matching heights.  This, of course resulted in the bike being backwards on the lift, but we removed the front wheel chock and secured it with straps.  No biggie.

 

Got the muffler and rear wheel off... I do that all that all the time for tire changes.  Dropped the final drive, as for an FD oil change, and got our first peek inside...  Trying to recall how to remove the lower FD bolt now, but that will be for tomorrow.

 

 

[LBump]

Ouch... that looks on the worn side.  Were you hearing any unusual noises, or feeling additional vibrations?

Least ya caught it before the rubber boot caught on fire or a complete shattered housing.  Ya know Carl lost his 07 to a boot fire and the expense of repair.  He bought another RT, same vintage, and salvaged the 07.

Good luck with the ordeal Jan!  

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, Twisties said:

In today's installment...  got the bike on the lift...  a little adventure in and of itself since it wouldn't roll forward.  Ended up backing the trailer up to the lift and rolling the bike directly onto the lift, at matching heights.  This, of course resulted in the bike being backwards on the lift, but we removed the front wheel chock and secured it with straps.  No biggie.

 

Got the muffler and rear wheel off... I do that all that all the time for tire changes.  Dropped the final drive, as for an FD oil change, and got our first peek inside...  Trying to recall how to remove the lower FD bolt now, but that will be for tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning Twisties

 

That is going to leave a mark. So much for the idea of having your shaft rebuilt.

 

Not the first one that I have seen like that & for some reason most riders haven't felt it prior to explosion.  

 

I'm sure there is a tell-tail before failure but it must not be easily  distinguishable from the other normal 2cyl  Boxer driveline disturbances as the pre-failure additional disturbance must come on slowly enough to seem normal.

[Twisties]

9 hours ago, LBump said:

Were you hearing any unusual noises, or feeling additional vibrations?

Just for a couple of hundred feet.  Gary, Bill and Sharon who were behind me said there was a puff of blue smoke just before I pulled off.  We surmise that was the boot getting chewed.  

 

The first indication was a vibration, but I was also going over the scalloped edge of a rough asphalt patch, and when I came off of that it smoothed out for a few seconds and I thought it was the road surface.  Smooth didn't last.  Felt like a flat tire all of the sudden.  Still not really sure if the initial vibration was this or road surface.  There was a pullout, fortunately, because there hadn't been many.  I pulled in. 

[Twisties]

Today's progress was limited as I had to ride to Bandon for a dentist appt.  Yeah, 180 miles r.t. for a dentist...  the closest on my insurance plan... they have an office here but have not had a dentist here for over a year..... rural health is another discussion in another forum...  anyway, I am sure you are bleeding for me since I had to ride 180 miles on 101, and the traffic was moving well... and I had to stop at the new Q' place in Gold Beach on the way home.  It was a rough day, I tell you.

 

Got the plastics off and removed the FD.  I got the left footpeg plate off, which I had never done before.  Still sort of puzzling over the right footpeg plate and looking at the Reprom.  Probably deal with it tomorrow.   Yawn.  Night.

[Indy Dave]

Bernie and I have done this before, me a couple of times now, as I need to grease the U-joints. Bernie has photos, you might give him a ping if you have questions, etc. I can answer direct questions of course. Bernie tends to have more of a photographic memory and is more technical minded than Yours Truly. @Bernie

[Twisties]

Thanks  Dave, Bernie PM'd the pics!

 

Didn't get a chance to work on it today, as I was caught up helping a friend learn lightroom all day and evening.

[blalor]

18 hours ago, Indy Dave said:

Bernie and I have done this before, me a couple of times now, as I need to grease the U-joints.

Is that process documented? I changed the oil and greased the spines at the final drive in mine last night and noticed a slight notchiness in one axis of the u-joint.  Thinking about looking for a local place to rebuild the joints, as they don't look like something I can do in my garage.

[Bernie]

There are a few places that can replace the U-Joint bearings. Dave has used a place in WI, I believe.

Once they develop a notchiness it is just a matter of time before they explode.

There have been a few write-ups on how to replace the drive shaft on the board over the years.

Here is a link to a old post I made, when I changed my drive shaft. 

I also updated the link to the Google picture album.

Drive-Shaft Swing Arm surprise

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bernie
added link to post.

[Twisties]

Thanks Bernie!

 

Tonight's progress and question:

 

Got the right and left footpeg plates off.  

 

Removed parts 8 and 9, the screws on the right of the swingarm.  Moving to the left, I don't see parts 12 and 13.  Now considering how to proceed.  Someone forwarded me some instructions that show removing screws 8 and 9, then removing 11 and 10.  

 

Removing 11 and 10 has me a little stumped....  

 

 

11 appears to be a 30mm nut.  I have a 30mm open end box end wrench, but it's too recessed.  I guess I need to get a 30mm socket?    10 appears to accept a 12 or 14 mm allen.  My biggest is a 10 mm.  Questions:  1.  If I put a 30mm socket on the nut 11 will the bearing stud 10 spin?  In other words, do I need some sort of pass through set up so I can hold the bearing stud 10 while I spin the nut off?  2.  Once the nut is off, will the bearing stud 10 just come out, do I need a huge allen at all?  3.  What next?  The BMW instructions show using a specialized threaded puller to remove the right side bearing stud.  Bernie's pic appear to show that he pushed the right side out by pushing a rod through from the left and tapping it out?

 

Here is the right side bearing stud with the screws removed.

 

 

 

Front boot with zip tie removed and loosened.

[Bernie]

For the left side, you will need a 30 mm socket and you will need the large Allen wrench. After loosening the big nut, you van unscrew the stud with the Allen wrench.

On the right side, you are supposed to use a slide hammer. What I did is use a stack of large washers and a long bolt with the same thread and size as the center bolt. By gentle tightening the bolt, the pin/stud started to remove itself from the bearing.

Or after removing the left side threaded pin (10), you can use a long rod and tap out the right side pin (7).

I also changed the bearings, as I found water in the swing arm. The bearing have the seals incorporated into them and very unique and of course expensive.

You did remove the shock?

[Twisties]

I just removed the lower shock bolt.  The shock is hanging loose from the top.  I've replaced shocks a few times, so I'm ok with that procedure.  I think you've given me enough to get the swing arm out.  Gotta run to town and get tools.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, Bernie said:

 

Or after removing the left side threaded pin (10), you can use a long rod and tap out the right side pin (7).

 

 

 

Morning Bernie

 

That would probably work but the drive shaft in on the same centerline as swing arm pivots so the drive shaft would probably have to be released from the rear of transmission & slid back/down to get a rod to go through & line up with the other side pivot.

[Twisties]

26 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning Bernie

 

That would probably work but the drive shaft in on the same centerline as swing arm pivots so the drive shaft would probably have to be released from the rear of transmission & slid back/down to get a rod to go through & line up with the other side pivot.

 

Hmmmmm.....  It's an RT, don't think I can get the driveshaft out without taking the swing arm first.   

 

So shopping list is:

 

30 mm socket

12 or 14 mm allen (measure before going to town)

Large bolt to match thread of center screw on right side, and a stack of washers.  

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, Twisties said:

 

Hmmmmm.....  It's an RT, don't think I can get the driveshaft out without taking the swing arm first.   

 

So shopping list is:

 

30 mm socket

12 or 14 mm allen (measure before going to town)

Large bolt to match thread of center screw on right side, and a stack of washers.  

 

 

Morning Twisties

 

No, you can't get the shaft out but you can snap it off the rear of trans output shaft then pull it back a short ways. You just need to move it enough so the rod can go through without hitting the shaft.  

[Twisties]

Bernie's strategy worked, I got an M6 x 30 bolt with a 1.0 thread pitch and a stack of washers, pulled it right out.

 

Swing arm is off, now about to think about how to get the drive shaft off the transmission.  

 

 

[Twisties]

Got it off.  Just pried it off against the output shaft with a screwdriver.   Thanks @CoarsegoldKid for the help.

[Indy Dave]

12 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning Bernie

 

That would probably work but the drive shaft in on the same centerline as swing arm pivots so the drive shaft would probably have to be released from the rear of transmission & slid back/down to get a rod to go through & line up with the other side pivot.

 

I've used Bernie's method - just used a long rod and taped out the side pin.

 

Sorry to be so late to the party, Jan. As you've discovered, you just tap the driveshaft off of the output shaft. And when reinstalling, you do the same thing, just tap it on. There's a ring inside the  U-joint that holds the drive shaft on the transmission.

[Twisties]

Okay, disassembly complete, so now the plan of repair.

 

The FD bearings seem fine.  I think the swing arm bearings are ok, but not being a mechanic, it's hard for me to say.  They are slightly notchy in movement, but move easily with no play or other issues noticeable.  The grease is a little icky, but I don't know the procedure for cleaning and repacking...  soak in solvent of some sort?  Apply new grease of some sort with finger?  In any event, I think I'll keep them.  Maybe just leave them as is.  The swing arm has some internal damage, but I don't think there is any reason to replace it.  

 

So, I ordered the drive shaft from Ted Porter, along with a rear boot/gaiter and a tube of their spline lube.   Installing the driveshaft and lubing the splines seems like a no brainer.

 

I have some instructions from a reprom like program that I guess dealers get for putting the swing arm back on.  It leaves me a little confused.

 

1. The first thing is to lube the front boot/gaiter with something called Staburags NBU 30 PTM.  What are people using for that, or do I need to order this from BMW?

 

2. Then, the bearing studs are lubricated with Optimoly TA.  Same question, what can I use for this, or should I order from BMW?  Will the spline lube from Ted Porter be a good choice?

 

3.  The right side is a no brainer, the 4 screws are tightened to 9 nm.  End of story.  The left side gets a little weird and I want to make sure I understand this properly.  

 

On the left side, the seat and thread of the bearing stud are lubed with the optimoly, then the stud is installed, torqued to 24 nm, slackened, and re-torqued to 7 nm.  Ok, fine to here.  Now the lock nut is installed and torqued to 145 nm, but they use some specialized tools and it looks to me as if the stud is held still at the 7 nm position while the locknut is torqued.  I don't think I have tools that will allow this.   What are people doing for this?  

 

4.  To attach the Final Drive, I have the nut that needs to be replaced at the upper link attachment, but I'm not sure what the situation is for the bolt and pivot pin at the bottom.  I think it's locktite 243 and 100 nm but wish to confirm.  That's parts 15 and 20 on the parts fiche image shown earlier in the thread.  

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Twisties]

Well, done gone and done it, grrrr....  Sprayed brake cleaner into the swing arm to clean it and washed grit into the bearings.... rookies make rookie mistakes!   I was told the bearings will come right out, but mine are stuck in the swing arm.  How do I get them out, cleaned and repacked?  

 

 

[Bernie]

Good morning. Working of memory here, the swing arm bearings are sealed and can’t be re-lubed.  Also to remove them, you will need to apply force from the opposite side, either by using a puller or a long rod to knock them out. 

I would only remove if you are ready to replace them. 

As for the left stud for the swing arm. Clean the threads in the swing arm and on the stud, so you can easily turn the stud into the swing arm and also spin the nut by hand on the stud. 

After installing drive shaft, boot and swing arm and right side stud, install left side stud and torque to specs. Then use a marker to make a mark on the stud and on the frame. Then install the big nut. Make it snug and check if the stud moves, if not slowly torque to specs, while making sure you don’t spin the stud. 

That should do it. 

Good luck. 

[Twisties]

Thanks Bernie!

 

Ok, I'm going to order new swing arm bearings.  While I'm at it, the needle sleeve, item 2 in this parts fiche image, seems sludgy.  Can it be cleaned and repacked or should I order a new one of these?  Does it also knock out similarly to the swing arm bearings, or does it require a press?  

 

I take it that when I install the new swing arm bearings I can just tap them into place with a hammer and a block of wood?

[Twisties]

Maybe I don't need to buy new bearings after all. Knocked them out with a bit of dowel rod. Cleaned with five or six washes brake cleaner. They seem fine. What do I repack them with?

[Indy Dave]

Correct on the swing arm bearings. 

 

[Indy Dave]

Jan, I replaced mine because they had some light piting. Don't know what grease you need to use, other than your will need to be very through, the brake cleaner will have dissolved the original grease (obviously).

[Twisties]

Needle sleeve, part 2 in the FD diagram:  I have an old FD and got it out to practice on.  I was unable to knock the needle sleeve out with a wooden dowel.  I did try spraying it in situ with brake cleaner, and it seemed to clean up fine.  Would I be ok to spray my for real (the one in my current FD) needle sleeve in situ and allow it to dry overnight before repacking?  Alternatively, I think maybe it's just a bit dry.  I could just add some grease.  It moves smoothly, just a bit stiff.  No grinding or gritty sounds.  

 

For these swing arm bearings and the needle sleeve am I just using a standard wheel bearing grease to repack? 

[Indy Dave]

Well,  it's been 3 or 4 years since I did the bearings, so I don't remember what I used. I may have used a marine based Grease, I have a lot of that sitting around for my jet skis. But I honestly don't know and dirt Rider can probably advise you better than this Bumbling Kludge.  

[Bernie]

My swing arm bearings where a complete assembly. The raceway, bearing cages and seals where all a one piece unit. Yours either separated or you have a different design. 

Maybe @Dirtrider can explain the difference. 

[Twisties]

Hmmm... so maybe part of the bearing is still in the housing....  I'll go look.

[Twisties]

Well there is definitely a steel insert left in the swingarm housing. I just figured it was intended to stay. The roller bearing assembly snaps into it with finger pressure and can be removed with a finger. I guess I need to get the new bearings and remove it?

[Twisties]

Knocked out the bearing races and ordered new bearings this morning.  My gut says the old bearings snap back together fine.  My other gut says the first one doesn't have a clue.  :-)

 

Self-inflicted wound on the bearings, but I'm still about $800-$900 ahead of the dealer estimate for the job, and likely will have it done a week or two earlier.  So, all's well.

[Twisties]

[Marty Hill]

Wishing you good luck!

[Dann]

Here's a video that I referred to when I replaced mine 3 years ago.

I used both this video and the BMW RSD DVD

 

It's done on a GS but it's very similar to the  RT

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsS8y6YlbkM

 

Hope his helps

[Indy Dave]

Jan - Where did you source your driveshaft from? On mine - which was rebuilt - the zerk fittings sheared off after installation (and riding). When I removed it to grease the u-joints, I discovered this. I contacted the re-builder and sure enough, they had made change (sometime after my unit) and went to a flush grease fitting in place of the standard zerk they originally employed. So they replaced those for me.

 

Not saying your driveshaft will have the same issue - just sharing.

[Twisties]

12 minutes ago, Dann said:

Here's a video that I referred to when I replaced mine 3 years ago.

I used both this video and the BMW RSD DVD

 

It's done on a GS but it's very similar to the  RT

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsS8y6YlbkM

 

Hope his helps

 

That's great, thanks!

[Twisties]

5 minutes ago, Indy Dave said:

Jan - Where did you source your driveshaft from?

Ted Porter

[Twisties]

How often are you greasing the u-joints?

[Indy Dave]

The first time, I did it after one year. But it looked like new (except from the broken zerk tips) so I've gone to two years.

 

[Twisties]

Arrrrggggg......

[Twisties]

So I have vague recollection of a body type screw coming out of somewhere unusual in the interior of the bike...... Can't for the life of me think where that might be.....  Otherwise... new driveshaft, new swingarm bearings, new shoes, new front brake pads, new engine oil and filter, valves adj, throttle body sync checked, codes read, fresh FD oil, all other checks complete.... 

[Indy Dave]

Ok.

 

1. Under the tank rail, one screw on each side up front. This is very common to over look.

 

2) glove box area. 2 for the door itself and several around the top.

 

3. If for some reason you had the rear most panel off, there is a screw that hides under the grab rail.

 

3. The upper most side panel uses 4 screws. Two under the oil cooler area, one horizontal into the dash area and then this one - the upper one in this photo - on the underside above your knee.

[Indy Dave]

Here are the body panel screws under the tankbagb rail I mentioned. One on each side.

 

Another easy to overlook, also under the tank rail.

[Twisties]

Thanks Dave!  No, it's none of those.  I know all the regular body screws.  This would be something you wouldn't deal with in regular maintenance.  IIRC it was not actually on a piece of body plastic.

 

In any event, it runs fine.  I'll eventually think of where it came from.

[LBump]

Look to see if any of the screws under the seat area are missing...

Good luck with the search.

So Jan, was it easier to reassemble the driveshaft etc. than the disassembly?

[Twisties]

It's pretty easy.  I just don't have experience or knowledge and the reprom I have doesn't cover it.  I'm going to try to put together a "How To" in the next day or two.  I would say the biggest issue was just intimidation.  I had never knocked out or seated a bearing before, and just didn't know how the whole thing would go.   I had big help from Joe (Coarsegold Kid) and his friend who got me some instructions for the swingarm itself. 

 

Now, I want to do Sharon's bike preventatively, but she isn't going for it.  I was going to do a pictorial how to with her bike, but will have to settle for mostly drawings.  I think having done it once I could do it again in half a day, if all the parts needed were there.  

 

 

[Rogerl]

Congratulations on a job well done !!!!

 

Roger L

[Bernie]

Glad to see it all went together good. Maybe it’s one of the screws for the rear fender. 

[longjohn]

Good job Jan. Very impressive. Maybe you could do a reverse search? Type in m6 25 or whatever the size is.