Dealer issue

[92Merc]

I'll go into the whole story later, but I had my 2 RT's brought into the dealer for the 12k/24k valve check and cam chain timing. I did all the other work myself (plus, oil, air filter, etc). I'm just not comfortable doing valve checks so I have the dealer do that. But after my fiasco, I might be second guessing that.

Anyway, if you don't drain all the oil at the time of the valve check, does some of the oil need to be drained anyway? If so, about how much is lost?

[Bighopper]

You don't have too drain the oil to do a Valve/Cam check/adjustment. Loos of oil taking off the valve covers is approx 1oz or less.

[Paul De]

While I haven't done a valve check on my waterhead yet, nevertheless it really shouldn't need any oil from a full sump of oil, with only a few ounces being lost for both valve covers removed to get at the valves. You might not even notice a change of level, loosing 2oz of the 135 oz for a full sump so ride them home and add if you feel it is needed.  Youtube how-to videos and Q&As here may give you the confidence to adjust valves on you own. 

[AndyS]

Do they need doing? Why not wait until the next service, get the valve clearances done first, then when you get the bike home, do the oil change,

[92Merc]

Well, I did my oil changes before leaving because they were both due a bit earlier, and it was a 300 mile ride to the dealer.  I checked both bikes oil levels BEFORE leaving on the trip.  They were both at 3/4 of the oil circle.  After leaving the dealer, and riding about 75 miles, I got a "check oil level warning" on my RT.  I immediately pulled over.  After a 5 minute wait on the side stand, the oil was barely visible in the glass.  I checked the wife's bike and the oil level was fine, still at 3/4.

 

So the short story is I had to ride into Rapid City, get some oil, ride back.  Top off the bike.  Ended up missing dinner with my sister and her family, plus being out of 2 hours of riding.  After topping off the oil and riding back for about 400 miles, the oil level is still fine.

 

So in my opinion, the dealer had to have drained some oil or something.  The bike was fine before leaving, it's fine now.  It didn't magically disappear.  They are just lucky the bike warned me and I was able to stop immediately as I caught the warning within a minute.  Had I been trucking down the interstate, I wouldn't have caught it as quickly and could have caused engine damage.  I'm hoping since I was literally looking at the dash when I saw the warning pop up, I probably avoided damage.  But I'm not a happy camper to say the lease.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, 92Merc said:

Well, I did my oil changes before leaving because they were both due a bit earlier, and it was a 300 mile ride to the dealer.  I checked both bikes oil levels BEFORE leaving on the trip.  They were both at 3/4 of the oil circle.  After leaving the dealer, and riding about 75 miles, I got a "check oil level warning" on my RT.  I immediately pulled over.  After a 5 minute wait on the side stand, the oil was barely visible in the glass.  I checked the wife's bike and the oil level was fine, still at 3/4.

 

So the short story is I had to ride into Rapid City, get some oil, ride back.  Top off the bike.  Ended up missing dinner with my sister and her family, plus being out of 2 hours of riding.  After topping off the oil and riding back for about 400 miles, the oil level is still fine.

 

So in my opinion, the dealer had to have drained some oil or something.  The bike was fine before leaving, it's fine now.  It didn't magically disappear.  They are just lucky the bike warned me and I was able to stop immediately as I caught the warning within a minute.  Had I been trucking down the interstate, I wouldn't have caught it as quickly and could have caused engine damage.  I'm hoping since I was literally looking at the dash when I saw the warning pop up, I probably avoided damage.  But I'm not a happy camper to say the lease.

 

Afternoon 92Merc

 

It doesn't sound like the dealer did  a thorough or complete job.

 

As mentioned above some oil came out with each valve cover removal, plus if the cam timing was checked then some more oil came out as chain tensioners were removed & the pre-tensioner tool installed, then possibly a little more oil came out if the engine was rotated with pre-tensioners during the checks.

 

There is probably a line in the BMW service manual under valve checking procedure, then  under (finishing work) that reads something like this___

 

[92Merc]

9 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

It doesn't sound like the dealer did  a thorough or complete job.

 

And that right there sums up my thoughts as well.

[dirtrider]

57 minutes ago, 92Merc said:

 

And that right there sums up my thoughts as well.

 

Afternoon 92Merc

 

Well if you paid by credit card & don't intend to return to that dealer then you can call your C card company & dispute some of the charges (dealer might eventually win the outcome but they will remember you anyhow). At least dispute the amount that you used in time, mileage , gasoline, & oil bought  to remedy THEIR mistake.

 

The thing that would bother me is if they screwed up something simple like failing to check the oil level after  job completion then what else did they shortcut or cheat on?  

[Cap]

57 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

It doesn't sound like the dealer did  a thorough or complete job.

 

 

And that's exactly why I bought all the BMW tools, and learned (thanks, Boxflyer!) how to do the valve service myself.  I have much more confidence that the work is done correctly if I do it myself.  I am sure that most dealers have excellent mechanics -- but I am less confident that they are making decisions the same way I would make them if I were watching over their shoulders.  For example, are the cams in perfect synch?  Or just very close?  Are the valves at one end of the clearance range, or in the middle?  Are all the body panels replaced with the right screws in the right places?

 

I have the advantage of being able to work slowly and methodically.  The dealer can't afford to work slowly.  You have to hope that their skill and experience compensates for their need for speed.  Usually, it does.  But you can't be sure unless you do it yourself.

 

I remember asking an A&P working on my airplane if I could watch him while he worked.  And his response was, "Sure, but I will charge you double."

[92Merc]

And that is why I did most of the 12k service work myself.  Did all the body panels, etc.

 

He did show me the sheets on both of my RT's.  The valve clearances were almost dead center on both bikes tolerance wise.  Funny thing is my higher mileage '15 was consistently dead center.  The wife's '17 had a couple that were close, but not needing adjustment.

 

Funny thing is both of our bikes needed tweaking for cam chain timing.

[Alfred02]

I have given up on dealers for my bike when it comes to maintenance.

I am happy to pay, but every time the bike came back with some kind of damage. So I spend the money on another GS911 for the Wethead.

[Paul De]

Speed of service should not correlate to incomplete or lackadaisical work.  Many, many, moons ago I had worked at Kawasaki dealer and speed at the expense of quality for the service work I did was never an equation to consider.  And yes, the book comp rates were crap and you had to develop tips and tricks to make decent money, but this was never at the expense of quality.  On the shim under bucket valve trains, where you had to pull the cams, I was able to get a standard tune up down to 45 minutes.

[92Merc]

In all honesty, I wasn't even bothered by the cost.  It actually came in cheaper than I was expecting.  Both bikes only cost me $218.  My hotel for 2 nites cost me more than that!

I would have rather they took their time and charged me an extra $50 for "extra time".

[Cap]

2 hours ago, 92Merc said:

... The wife's '17 had a couple that were close, but not needing adjustment....Funny thing is both of our bikes needed tweaking for cam chain timing.

 

My 2017 had cams out of synch on both sides at 9000 miles.  And I had an intake valve too loose.  Those issues were probably from the factory.  And I found several incorrect body panel fasteners in the process.  and an over-filled final drive. All previous service performed at the original dealership.

 

 

[92Merc]

I checked my 4 qt jug last night I had used to top off the oil.  It was between 1/2 and 3/4 quart used.  I accidentally glugged a bit on the ground when trying to fill the funnel.  So conservatively, we'll call it 1/2 a quart.  That took it from the bottom of the glass up to 3/4 of the circle.

 

Tthe bike level check feature saved my arse. So there shouldn't be any "major" damage. But the dealer should have checked oil levels before returning it to me. When I left home the day before, I was somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 circle on a cold engine. When I filled the bike up, engine would have been cold as well an hour later. So the 1/2 quart my jug reports is about right.

I played phone tag with my dealer yesterday. So didn't get to talk to them. I'm sure it'll be "are you sure?". And then "No damage done, but welp, sorry". That'll probably be about it.

[John Ranalletta]

22 hours ago, 92Merc said:

In all honesty, I wasn't even bothered by the cost.  It actually came in cheaper than I was expecting.  Both bikes only cost me $218.  My hotel for 2 nites cost me more than that!

I would have rather they took their time and charged me an extra $50 for "extra time".

 

Another BMWST member experienced somewhat the same thing.  "We just got back from __ to get bikes tuned up. Unfortunately after valve check the shop didn't top off oil. Stranded for a bit "

[92Merc]

Well, that sucks John.  I know the feeling.

[Alfred02]

On 6/18/2019 at 5:38 AM, 92Merc said:

In all honesty, I wasn't even bothered by the cost.  It actually came in cheaper than I was expecting.  Both bikes only cost me $218.  My hotel for 2 nites cost me more than that!

I would have rather they took their time and charged me an extra $50 for "extra time".

Yep

Told my dealer the same thing. Take your time, do it properly and if it costs another hour or two, I am happy to pay for a job properly done.

And they still managed to damage the bike. So I have given up and simply don't use them anymore.