Left Side Tire Wear - Fix?

[Michaelr11]

We (Oilhead riders) all know about the excessive tire wear on the left side of our tires.  I'm going to ask for long term feedback on this topic - I will update this as I get my own results.

 

I had a collision with a deer 3 months ago.  This required replacing the fork tubes on the front telelever, the uppers, not the lower legs.  Doing this repair, I removed the front wheel and before completing it I inserted the front axle through the forks to make sure that the forks were aligned. THEY WERE NOT.  I loosened all four of the bolts holding the fork legs to the bridge and inserted the axle again. With axle in place, keeping the fork legs lined up true, I carefully and gradually retightened all four bolts to the fork bridge. Checked the alignment of the axle across the forks and it was now going directly across from one leg into the other with no twisting or pushing to get the axle into the other leg.

 

It's been 2,500 miles since that repair was completed.  My front tire (3,500 miles) is not showing any added wear on the left side and my rear tire is also not showing any extra left side wear.  The bikes' handling is crisp and my gas mileage has improved by 1-2 mpg. Of course this all could be coincidental, so I'm asking for others to look at this too.

 

If your Oilhead is experiencing left side tire wear.

1. Remove the front wheel (wait for a tire change if you like).
2. Insert the axle with the wheel out to check for alignment of the forks.
3. If not perfectly aligned, loosen the fork bridge bolts to get the fork legs into alignment.
4. Cross tighten the bolts incrementally so the legs aren't twisted out of alignment.
5. Check the axle again to see if the forks are now in alignment.

Report back on handling, fuel mileage and eventually tire wear.

 

 

[dirtrider]

48 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

We (Oilhead riders) all know about the excessive tire wear on the left side of our tires.  I'm going to ask for long term feedback on this topic - I will update this as I get my own results.

 

I had a collision with a deer 3 months ago.  This required replacing the fork tubes on the front telelever, the uppers, not the lower legs.  Doing this repair, I removed the front wheel and before completing it I inserted the front axle through the forks to make sure that the forks were aligned. THEY WERE NOT.  I loosened all four of the bolts holding the fork legs to the bridge and inserted the axle again. With axle in place, keeping the fork legs lined up true, I carefully and gradually retightened all four bolts to the fork bridge. Checked the alignment of the axle across the forks and it was now going directly across from one leg into the other with no twisting or pushing to get the axle into the other leg.

 

It's been 2,500 miles since that repair was completed.  My front tire (3,500 miles) is not showing any added wear on the left side and my rear tire is also not showing any extra left side wear.  The bikes' handling is crisp and my gas mileage has improved by 1-2 mpg. Of course this all could be coincidental, so I'm asking for others to look at this too.

 

If your Oilhead is experiencing left side tire wear.

1. Remove the front wheel (wait for a tire change if you like).
2. Insert the axle with the wheel out to check for alignment of the forks.
3. If not perfectly aligned, loosen the fork bridge bolts to get the fork legs into alignment.
4. Cross tighten the bolts incrementally so the legs aren't twisted out of alignment.
5. Check the axle again to see if the forks are now in alignment.

Report back on handling, fuel mileage and eventually tire wear.

 

 

 

Afternoon  Michaelr11

 

That is an important alignment (fork bushing wear wise) but it doesn't  cause L/H side tire wear any more than it causes R/H side tire wear (if a fork misalignment caused tire wear then we should see  as many R/H side wearing issues as L/H side wearing issues, we don't).

 

Just find the worst tire wear area on the tire then get some help to lean the bike over until that part of the tire is on the ground,  that is the attitude or lean of the wheel when that spot on the tire is wearing. 

 

 My bet that most riders would notice the front tire leaning at that much  angle while riding the motorcycle (not to mention the vehicle would severely track in the wheel leaning direction) 

 

If you want to see what is wearing the front tire on the L/H side just take note of the bikes lean when the worn spot on the front tire is  touching the ground. Then pay attention to that same lean angle while riding the motorcycle.

 

A motorcycle tire has a roundish profile so if the rubber  isn't actually touching the pavement then it isn't wearing.  

[Paul De]

My R1100RT had the forks properly aligned from the factory and aside from the check you noted I also checked for front to rear tracking alignment, which was good from the factory as well.  My front tire always shows extra left side wear as the tire goes into the last half of its service life. Whether the cause is from the crown of the roads, from countering the torque of the motor, or like a waltzing mouse turning left way more than to the right, who knows, but the left side wear thing sort of falls into the they all do that category.   I haven't noted if my Waterhead wears the front tire in the same way, but I'll watch for it.

[SAS]

Am I right in thinking that this is an 1100/1150RT problem?  My R1100R is spot on with front tire wear.  No signs of left/right wear.  If it is a problem with the RT's then I would think that it is fairing's/front wheel fender causing the front tire wear especially in higher speed corners.  

[MontanaMark]

Just my opinion, but the bulk of the fuel in the tank lives on the right side of the motorcycle.  I believe that this extra weight causes necessary counter-steer to counteract this.  This, in turn, causes the excessive tire wear on the left of the front tire.  I suppose you could counter this by loading the left side of the bike with equal weight, but I think I'll just get new tires.

 

Cheers!

Mark

[dirtrider]

42 minutes ago, MontanaMark said:

Just my opinion, but the bulk of the fuel in the tank lives on the right side of the motorcycle.  I believe that this extra weight causes necessary counter-steer to counteract this.  This, in turn, causes the excessive tire wear on the left of the front tire.  I suppose you could counter this by loading the left side of the bike with equal weight, but I think I'll just get new tires.

 

Cheers!

Mark

 

Afternoon Mark

 

Yes, the weight is off center (mainly due to the bike being designed for a radio & also the rear tracking off-set (rear wheel isn't necessarily tracking directly behind the front wheel)   

 

This can cause some counter steering to be needed,  BUT! it is a single track vehicle so there is no cross vehicle lateral scrubbing of the tire. All the counter steering does is make the front tire (& bike)  stand up straight & track straight ahead.

 

If the counter steering  actually leaned the tire to the left then the bike would track to the left due to wheel lean. What you feel in the handlebars as a pull or a lead is just the force  required to keep the bike/tire straight up due to the weight offset from bike's centerline  (this force is not effecting actual tire tracking down the road). So if the tire isn't leaning while going straight down the road then it can't be wearing off-center as the part of the tire  that is worn/wearing is not touching the pavement.

[Nexus9]

Hi Michael,

This is probably a little more long-term than you were thinking, but this is a topic that continues to come up and never really find a conclusive answer, so I thought I would use your topic heading to submit my thoughts on the matter.  These are only thoughts, with no verifiable or double-blind studies, so if anyone has any other ideas, let's all share our thoughts and see what we can learn from each other.  The matter at hand is here:

 

 

This happens to be a Metzeler Z8 with about 5,000 miles on it.  You can see that the right side of the tire in the picture (left side on the bike) is scrubbed down significantly more than the other side.  More importantly, you can see  where the rubber is missing, and I think this is an important clue.

Other clues are:

 

1. This seems to be unique to BMWs.

 

2. It doesn't really seem to matter where in the world you are.  As Andy Long, our UK Ambassador at BST noted, the same left side wear happens to him driving on the wrong side of the road in the UK. 

 

3. The rubber is scrubbed off all the way to the edge of the tire.  I'm not aware of any rubber getting scrubbed off a tire unless it is in contact with the pavement.

 

4. It only happens to the front tire.  No uneven side to side wear on the back.

 

5. BMW is aware of this, and considers it "normal".  That leads me to believe that there is something with the design, or engineering, or manufacture of the bike itself that makes it inclined to create this symptom.

 

6. This seems to happen to different people in varying degrees.  Some folks find that their front tire is wasted in 5,000 miles, others are going through two rears to every front and just starting to notice the asymmetry 12,000 miles later.

 

Theories proposed so far (that I have come across) are:

 

1. "In the US, we drive on the right side of the road, so left turns are longer."  Interestingly enough, there is some logic to this, in that the missing rubber must be being scrubbed off in a turn to be worn that close to the edge.  But that would mean that UK drivers would wear down the right side of their front tire - and they don't.

 

2. "The R1100RT carries significantly more weight on the right side, so we are constantly countersteering when we drive."  TRUE!

 

 

And I found this useful, in that I have added 12 pounds of birdshot to the accessory box of my RT.  Unfortunately, on a two-wheeled vehicle, we would not countersteer on the side of the tire.  So I'm not sure that would wear the rubber down to the edge of the tire.

 

3. "We turn more aggressively to the left because we are more likely to be able to see past the apex of the turn."  This makes some sense to me.  Only thing is, I don't think my driving changes when I'm on the Beemer vs the Harley, or the Ducati, or the CBX.  And none of them seem to wear down the left side of the front tire.  Hmm.

 

4. "I changed tires to a less sticky tire (i.e. Avon Storms) and the problem went away."  I think this might be a clue (?).  I wonder if this person actually drove the full 15,000 miles on the Avons before contributing, or if, after a couple thousand miles, didn't notice a difference, and chimed in to a post he happened to come across (which we appreciate!).  It does make sense that a longer wearing tire is going to take longer to show the difference from side to side.

 

5. "I installed Ohlins shocks front and back and it cured the problem."  This one....  I don't know.  Maybe you guys can help me out here.  I think people make far too much black magic out of suspension.  I've always just thought of a shock absorber as just providing a linear damping up and/or down.  Not sure how that would prevent scrubbing on the side of the tire, much less one side of the tire, BUT - maybe something you can share?

 

6. "The fork alignment was off, so the tire was going down the road at an angle."   Again, on a two-wheeled vehicle, we might turn the handlebars slightly to correct for a misalignment, but we're not going down the road on the side of the tire.

 

7. "The crown of the road makes us drive on the left side of the tire."  I've never seen a 30 degree road crown.  Maybe in other parts of the country?

 

8. "The suspension bolts are too tight.  I used Locktite and installed them using less torque and the problem went away"  Hm.  Not sure what to even make of this one. 

 

Have you heard others? 

 

So, I'll be honest.  I don't think it's the road, or the tires, or the shocks, or the steering bolts. 

 

Consider this.  What is so unique about a big horizontal twin compared to a V-Twin, or an inline four?  Well, you probably noticed it when you first got your bike, and maybe you've gotten used to it.  I'm a throttle-blipper when I downshift, and when I first went from my Harley Ultra to my RT Police bike, my stomach would jump every time the entire motorcycle underneath me would try to twist clockwise as I prepped for a turn.  Really unsettling.  I don't notice it anywhere near as much today - but it's still there just as much as it always was. 

 

Why would that matter?  Well, it depends on how you drive.  Like we said, different people experience the left side scrub to varying degrees.  But if you're like me, and you developed your driving style on a sport bike a long time ago, you try to predict your speed in the upcoming turn, prep for your turns by downshifting to stay in the powerband, look ahead to create as straight a line as possible through multiple turns, and roll on the throttle at the end of the last turn to stand the bike back upright.  I don't think I'm unique in doing this, there are a lot of riders out there who are way faster than me!

 

It's that last part that is most important.  If you accelerate hard out of corners, I'll bet you go though a lot of asymmetrical front tires. Why?  Think about it.  When you roll on the throttle on a horizontal twin, the bike twists clockwise, to the right.  In a right turn, this causes the bike to dive into the turn, and to keep from falling over, you need to apply pressure to turn the handlebars to the right.  You're turning the handlebars/wheel in the same direction as the turn.  But when you turn left, and you accelerate out of that turn, the bike wants to lift up out of the turn, and now, with the left side of the tire in contact with the pavement, you still need to apply pressure to the handlebars to the right to counteract the lift and make the bike stay down - opposite the direction of the turn.  This right side pressure in a left side turn creates a scrubbing on the left side of the tire when it is in contact with the pavement. 

 

So let's see...  does this idea hold water?  Well, it would explain why we only see this phenomenon on horizontal twins (maybe Guzzis too, I haven't checked!), we would get the same affect regardless of what side of the road we drive on, or where the crown of the road was.  People might (?) drive less aggressively on less-sticky tires, so higher mileage tires might not show the wear as fast.  The rubber, in this scenario, is being scrubbed while it is actually in contact with the pavement, and BMW would, of course, have become aware of the problem during development after many miles on their test track.  It also explains why we have left-side wear in the front and not the back.  The different amount of wear from bike to bike would have more to do with who's out there scraping pegs (ear holin', as we used to say), and who's just motoring along on a sunny day. 

 

The bad news is, WE'RE NOT GONNA FIX THIS WITHOUT REPLACING THE WHOLE BIKE!    So it looks like two front tires a year for me.  A whole lot cheaper than therapy!

So whaddaya think?  What's you're experience been?  This essay will have a lot more value after peer review! 

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

 

[9Mary7]

I agree with you about the torque causing more steering input exiting medium to high speed corners.

Folks may think that this couldn't be them 'cause they don't ride hard but, Oil/Hex/Cam twins are deceptively easy to go quickly on, oftentimes without the rider realizing it. 

Damn fun they are!!

[dirtrider]

55 minutes ago, Nexus9 said:

 

Consider this.  What is so unique about a big horizontal twin compared to a V-Twin, or an inline four?  Well, you probably noticed it when you first got your bike, and maybe you've gotten used to it.  I'm a throttle-blipper when I downshift, and when I first went from my Harley Ultra to my RT Police bike, my stomach would jump every time the entire motorcycle underneath me would try to twist clockwise as I prepped for a turn.  Really unsettling.  I don't notice it anywhere near as much today - but it's still there just as much as it always was. 

 

Why would that matter?  Well, it depends on how you drive.  Like we said, different people experience the left side scrub to varying degrees.  But if you're like me, and you developed your driving style on a sport bike a long time ago, you try to predict your speed in the turn, prep for your turns by downshifting to stay in the powerband, look ahead to create as straight a line as possible through multiple turns, and roll on the throttle at the end of the last turn to stand the bike back up straight.  I don't think I'm unique in doing this, there are a lot of riders out there who are way faster than me!

 

It's that last part that is most important.  If you accelerate hard out of corners, I'll bet you go though a lot of asymmetrical front tires. Why?  Think about it.  When you roll on the throttle on a horizontal twin, the bike twists clockwise, to the right.  In a right turn, this causes the bike to dive into the turn, and to keep from falling over, you need to apply pressure to turn the handlebars to the right.  You're turning the handlebars/wheel in the same direction as the turn.  But when you turn left, and you accelerate out of that turn, the bike wants to lift up out of the turn, and now, with the left side of the tire in contact with the pavement, you still need to apply pressure to the handlebars to the right to counteract the lift and make the bike stay down - opposite the direction of the turn.  This right side pressure in a left side turn creates a scrubbing on the left side of the tire when it is in contact with the pavement. 

 

So let's see...  does this idea hold water?  Well, it would explain why we only see this phenomenon on horizontal twins (maybe Guzzis too, I haven't checked!), we would get the same affect regardless of what side of the road we drive on, or where the crown of the road was.  People might (?) drive less aggressively on less-sticky tires, so higher mileage tires might not show the wear as fast.  The rubber, in this scenario, is being scrubbed while it is actually in contact with the pavement, and BMW would, of course, have become aware of the problem during development after many miles on their test track.  It also explains why we have left-side wear in the front and not the back.  The different amount of wear from bike to bike would have more to do with who's out there scraping pegs (ear holin', as we used to say), and who's just motoring along on a sunny day. 

So whaddaya think?  What's you're experience been?  This essay will have a lot more value after peer review! 

Jon

 

Afternoon Jon

 

The physics say no, that doesn't happen. On the BMW Boxer twin or other similar engine mountings the main force from the engine is at the rear rear tire.   

 

You can feel a little motorcycle rocking when you free rev the engine sitting still but once moving in gear the engine just doesn't rev fast enough to make that happen with enough force to lean the motorcycle.  That motorcycle rocking when free-revving in mainly due to the heavy flywheel on the engine changing RPM so the engine (mounted to the frame) tends to react in the other direction. 

 

I have worked with  & delt with BMW riders for years now that show different or have different L/H wear on their front tires. Most  if not all that I know with the worst front tire L/H side wear are easy riders. One rider that I know has probably never seen wide open throttle in his life. On the other hand I am a very hard rider that rides late apex so I ride into a corner hard, brake very late, brake very hard then as the motorcycle starts to stand up I am on the throttle hard.

 

I have always had very little to no L/H side front tire wear (on any of my BMW boxer bikes). I do get a lot of tire wear (basically from hard riding) but it is pretty equal across the tire. The one thing I do & pretty well have always done is I do not shortcut  intersection L/H corners,  I pretty well ride them square so my normal L/H cornering is more like my R/H cornering. 

 

Have someone with a camera follow you when you ride. (or put a level bubble on your motorcycle with a camera pointed at it) then see if you are leaning that motorcycle  over as far as you think due to engine torque. 

 

If you use the level method then fist thing to do is get some help,  then with the camera pointing at the level lean your motorcycle over until the part of the front tire that is wearing is touching the pavement. That is your baseline. Then just compare the pictures of that level as you are accelerating  (bet you that they don't match)

 

OR, just cut to the chase & duplicate what a lot of us did back in the 1100 days when all the L/H tire wear was all the talk.

 

Just buy a can of cheap flat white paint & a roll of masking tape. 

 

Then ride out to a long straight road with very little traffic. Then put the motorcycle on the center stand  & mask off a couple of places on the front tire, protect the rims from the paint but make a rectangular box (or stripe)  all the way across the front tire tread in a couple of places. Then spray that section with a light coat of white paint.   Then wait long enough for the paint to dry. 

 

Now without leaning the motorcycle drop it off the center stand then as soon as you ease it out onto the pavement  accelerate through the gears as as fast as you can. The stop the motorcycle upright & place on the center stand. Then just look at the front tire to see how far the front tire in worn left of center. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nexus9]

Hi DR,

I always like it when the solution is that I have to ride faster!! 

 

Haha...  but seriously, that is very interesting first-hand experience.  I wouldn't think that squaring off intersections more would change the symptom.  I would love to know what is different between your bike/riding style that gives you even tire wear.  What do you think causes that?

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, Nexus9 said:

  I wouldn't think that squaring off intersections more would change the symptom.  I would love to know what is different between your bike/riding style that gives you even tire wear.  What do you think causes that?

Afternoon Nexus9

 

That's a good question,  it probably isn't just one thing as obviously my squarer L/H corners help as I spend less time leaned over through the left corners plus my cornering uses more of the tire as my lean changes throughout the corner (riders that tend to shortcut the L/H corner lean their motorcycle less but lean it for a much longer  distance & they don't change the lean angle much  (they kind of set it  & forget it through the long arc).

 

My late apex probably also has some effect as I brake hard late but over a shorter distance, then I typically lean the motorcycle over farther once I finally start the turn-in but I don't cover a long distance while leaned over in any one lean angle as my lean-in is more but for a way shorter distance wise. 

 

Think of the other (early apex) those riders start their lean early, then ride that shallower lean for a very long distance. Their lean angle probably closer matches the L/H tire wear area. Plus a lot of early apex riders need to change their held line a few times (or more) due to the motorcycle being to slow to maintain a natural line through the curve. Each time the line is changed in a lean that adds more wear to the tire in that area on the tire. 

 

On my late apex I still hit that area on the front tire that  is wearing but I am only there for a nano second on the lean-in & on post-apex straighten-up. I do lean quite a bit  farther than the shallow early apex rider but that area outboard of the typical L/H tire wear area isn't used a lot for much else so there is usually a lot of rubber left in that outer at tire replacement.   

 

Don't take what I posted above as all being peaches & cream, while I do get fairly even tire wear I haven't ever been noted for getting long tire wear. I ride had so I do wear the tires out quickly, but at least I use most of the tread in doing so with obviously more wear in the centers but basically fairly even off center on both sides of center. 

 

On my offroad bikes with softer tries & large sections of open tread due to off-road Knobbs (those would really show asymmetrical wear) but I can't see much odd wear (other than knobby angle wear) as I typically change rotational direction at least once during the tire's life. I do this mostly to keep the knob wear from wearing angular (you wouldn't believe how much tire wear you can get in the hard dirt & packed gravel from hard braking & hard acceleration).  

[6speedTi]

https://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

[Skywagon]

Interesting thread. Through a variety of tire brands and multiple boxers, I’ve not experienced the left side issue. I typically get 12-14,000 miles on a set and they wear pretty evenly. The ine thing that bugs me, and I try to adjust to on any long rides is the pull to left or right. I never know which way.. so here is what I do. When I get up to speed, hit the cruise control, and which way it pulls, I move me opposite on the seat until the bikes rides mostly straight-hand off. It’s different at different speeds and usually only a couple inches. I have my first set of T-31’s Terry suggested on the bike now. They are right at 5000 miles and look new. 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Interesting thread. Through a variety of tire brands and multiple boxers, I’ve not experienced the left side issue. I typically get 12-14,000 miles on a set and they wear pretty evenly. The ine thing that bugs me, and I try to adjust to on any long rides is the pull to left or right. I never know which way.. so here is what I do. When I get up to speed, hit the cruise control, and which way it pulls, I move me opposite on the seat until the bikes rides mostly straight-hand off. It’s different at different speeds and usually only a couple inches. I have my first set of T-31’s Terry suggested on the bike now. They are right at 5000 miles and look new. 

Evening David 

 

12,000-14,000 miles on your tires, you either ride differently than I do or ride on much different road surfaces. At 14,000 miles I am usually on my second tire change & quickly coming up on my third tire change. At 14,000 my third set would probably be sitting out in the hot sun getting ready.

[Nexus9]

 

•  

Posted 22 minutes ago

https://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

 

 

Any chance you can paste some of the relevant info in your post?

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, Nexus9 said:

Posted 22 minutes ago

https://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

 

Any chance you can paste some of the relevant info in your post?

Evening Nexus9

 

It has been many years now since I have seen that rattlebars.com/tirewear article. I think that article is at least 10-12 years old by now (no wonder it is gone)

 

Nothing really new there that hasn't already been covered in this thread. I think their main outcome was the tire wear was due to the longer left hand turn thing with nothing much else having as much effect on it. 

[Nexus9]

25 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

I have my first set of T-31’s Terry suggested on the bike now. They are right at 5000 miles and look new. 

...and the T32s are looking even better.  maybe I should go to a longer-life compound...   

[Skywagon]

DR...I've seen your post over the years.  I'm pretty sure from point A to point B you would be at point B, finish lunch, gas up, take a shower, and be leaving just as I pulled up   What's funny is I don't really poke around.  The folks I ride with are always saying wait for us at the next stop.  Today I did about a 250 ride.  In this case in was 90% slab straight away with some hills.  The speed limit was 85 and I'll just say I would have had to slow down to be at 85.  I've been riding about 58 years now.  I don't consider myself some knee dragging speed demon, but I do hit curves as fast as I think I can, which usually leaves my group waiting.  Here is a picture (not very good), taken when I got home of my tires with 4900 miles on them.  I see lot's of folks here who get 3-4000 miles on tires, some 8000, and not many above 10,000.  I pull mine off early too....never into the cords.

 

[9Mary7]

On my work bike the left side always got smoked before the right, and it was definitely because of all the U-turns.....

[Nexus9]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Nexus9

 

That's a good question,  it probably isn't just one thing as obviously my squarer L/H corners help as I spend less time leaned over through the left corners plus my cornering uses more of the tire as my lean changes throughout the corner (riders that tend to shortcut the L/H corner lean their motorcycle less but lean it for a much longer  distance & they don't change the lean angle much  (they kind of set it  & forget it through the long arc).

 

My late apex probably also has some effect as I brake hard late but over a shorter distance, then I typically lean the motorcycle over farther once I finally start the turn-in but I don't cover a long distance while leaned over in any one lean angle as my lean-in is more but for a way shorter distance wise. 

 

Think of the other (early apex) those riders start their lean early, then ride that shallower lean for a very long distance. Their lean angle probably closer matches the L/H tire wear area. Plus a lot of early apex riders need to change their held line a few times (or more) due to the motorcycle being to slow to maintain a natural line through the curve. Each time the line is changed in a lean that adds more wear to the tire in that area on the tire. 

 

On my late apex I still hit that area on the front tire that  is wearing but I am only there for a nano second on the lean-in & on post-apex straighten-up. I do lean quite a bit  farther than the shallow early apex rider but that area outboard of the typical L/H tire wear area isn't used a lot for much else so there is usually a lot of rubber left in that outer at tire replacement.   

 

Don't take what I posted above as all being peaches & cream, while I do get fairly even tire wear I haven't ever been noted for getting long tire wear. I ride had so I do wear the tires out quickly, but at least I use most of the tread in doing so with obviously more wear in the centers but basically fairly even off center on both sides of center. 

 

On my offroad bikes with softer tries & large sections of open tread due to off-road Knobbs (those would really show asymmetrical wear) but I can't see much odd wear (other than knobby angle wear) as I typically change rotational direction at least once during the tire's life. I do this mostly to keep the knob wear from wearing angular (you wouldn't believe how much tire wear you can get in the hard dirt & packed gravel from hard braking & hard acceleration).  

 

Interesting.  But it doesn't explain why you would get even tread wear on a boxer when other people get so much additional wear on the left.   

[Skywagon]

Here’s a theory for you. Kidding of course. Many RT riders are vertically challenged and when stopped they put the left foot down and scoot over a bit to the left on the seat. More weight on left side and just keep riding that way. 

[Nexus9]

Welll..... after all that, I am having some doubts about my hypothesis.  Continuing to research this, look what I found:

 

https://www.k1600forum.com/threads/odd-front-tire-wear.161689/

 

K1600s with right side tire wear.  These bikes have transverse crankshafts that are spinning in the direction of travel, so no torque effect. 

 

The similar (and interesting) theme here is that these riders talk about their bikes being heavy on the left side, falling to the left, with excess tire wear on the right.  R1100s are right side heavy, and wear the front tire on the left.

 

Could this really be just a balance issue?  It might explain why some people experience it more than others - could it be as simple as how we load our saddlebags?

 

Things that make you go hmmmm..... 

[Nexus9]

8 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Here’s a theory for you. Kidding of course. Many RT riders are vertically challenged and when stopped they put the left foot down and scoot over a bit to the left on the seat. More weight on left side and just keep riding that way. 

 

Heyyyy!!!  I think he's got it!!! 

[King Herald]

12 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening David 

 

12,000-14,000 miles on your tires, you either ride differently than I do or ride on much different road surfaces. At 14,000 miles I am usually on my second tire change & quickly coming up on my third tire change. At 14,000 my third set would probably be sitting out in the hot sun getting ready.

 

I get maybe 8000 miles maximum from a set of tyres, and 25,000 from brake pads, and I'm the type of guy you mention earlier who's never seen wide open throttle or hard braking.  I use Bridgestone Battleaxe rubber front and rear. 

 

My tires wear symmetrically, but they do wear with 3 flats on, one in the centre, one each side at about 20°.My bike is right side heavy, I keep my tool kit and waterproofs in my right side box, which is the opposite of what it should be, PTTR etc. I should try swapping sides really. 

 

And I'm in the U.K., the land of rubbish crowded roads and potholes. 

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Nexus9 said:

 

Could this really be just a balance issue?  It might explain why some people experience it more than others - could it be as simple as how we load our saddlebags?

 

 

Morning Nexus9

 

Could it be a balance issue? -- Sure, (IF) the rider rides with the motorcycle tilted over far enough to wear the tires that far off center.

 

It could be a lot of things but the bottom line is: unless the area on the tire that is worn is contacting the ground then it can't be wearing.

 

So get some help then lean your motorcycle over until that off-center tire wear is contacting the ground. That lean angle is where the motorcycle must be leaned over to wear tire in that off-center area. 

 

Now that you know the lean angle that is needed to wear your front tire off center just be observant while riding to see if you are actually riding down the road with it leaned over that far. Look at other like-motorcycles riding down the road to see if they are all riding with their motorcycle leaned WAY over that far.   

 

The L/H side front tire wear is pretty far off-center so it should be easy to spot all those motorcycles leaning that far over to the left while riding. 

 

 

[dirtrider]

59 minutes ago, King Herald said:

 

I get maybe 8000 miles maximum from a set of tyres, and 25,000 from brake pads, and I'm the type of guy you mention earlier who's never seen wide open throttle or hard braking.  I use Bridgestone Battleaxe rubber front and rear. 

 

My tires wear symmetrically, but they do wear with 3 flats on, one in the centre, one each side at about 20°.My bike is right side heavy, I keep my tool kit and waterproofs in my right side box, which is the opposite of what it should be, PTTR etc. I should try swapping sides really. 

 

And I'm in the U.K., the land of rubbish crowded roads and potholes. 

Morning King Herald

 

To balance things out you really need the added weight on the left side and as far out from center as possible. If your 1100/1150  motorcycle (what are you riding? ) has a factory radio then you need a lot less (added) weight on the lefthand side of the motorcycle.

 

But if you are now getting symmetrical front tire wear then personally I wouldn't change anything. 

 

[Skywagon]

About 10-2 years ago there was a  long thread here about 1150RT’s pulling to the right. There were two supposed cures. The first was weight in the left bag. I emptied the right bag and put a ton of weight in the left. No change. The second was a spacer on the rear tire. No change. Who knows. 
 

I rode with a friend yesterday who was in a Kawasaki 900. His left side front tire was worn. Michelin 4’s. 
 

My real theory is frame jig build. I’m no engineer but my theory is if the frame jig is not perfect, maybe 2-3 degrees off, seems like it could wear tires unevenly. I base that on an issue I had with a Suburban that wore the tires oddly. It was new. After much complaining Chevrolet replaced it with a new one. The rep said frame was twisted a bit. The car was built during a strike. Go figure. 

[dirtrider]

35 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

About 10-2 years ago there was a  long thread here about 1150RT’s pulling to the right. There were two supposed cures. The first was weight in the left bag. I emptied the right bag and put a ton of weight in the left. No change. The second was a spacer on the rear tire. No change. Who knows. 
 

I rode with a friend yesterday who was in a Kawasaki 900. His left side front tire was worn. Michelin 4’s. 
 

My real theory is frame jig build. I’m no engineer but my theory is if the frame jig is not perfect, maybe 2-3 degrees off, seems like it could wear tires unevenly. I base that on an issue I had with a Suburban that wore the tires oddly. It was new. After much complaining Chevrolet replaced it with a new one. The rep said frame was twisted a bit. The car was built during a strike. Go figure. 

Morning David

 

You can't compare a single track vehicle (motorcycle)  to  a 4 wheel vehicle when it comes to tire wear.  The single track vehicle  is just that 2 wheels in a line (sort of) . So there is no tire scrubbing from misalignment. The 4 wheel vehicle can have cross chassis scrub & cross chassis alignment issues.

 

The  (BMW 1100/1150) doesn't have a full frame as the engine case is a big part of the frame alignment with the front sub frame bolted onto the engine case & the rear wheel alignment controlled by the transmission, swing arm, & final drive alignment to the engine (rear frame has no effect or input on vehicle tracking)

 

If frame alignment or rear wheel offset from the front was the cause then the older Harley's  (wide drive belt) wouldn't' go 100 miles without wearing the side or the tire tread out  as their rear wheel offset was BIG (look at an old Harley's tire tracks after it passes through a water puddle?)  You had your choice on the old (wide belt Harley's) you could adjust the rear wheel tracking to have an inline offset (both front & rear wheel tracking straight forward but the rear wheel track offset from the front, or adjust them so the rear wheel track ran at an angle to try to  have it sort of track over & try to follow the front (ie Dog Track). Neither were good for handling but neither wore the L/H side of the front tire more than the other. 

 

Even the BMW 1100/1150 can have a rather large tracking offset & still be within BMW specs I would have to look but it is something like 9mm offset allowed & still be within specs. 

That is why removing the rear wheel spacer helped some reduce the PTTR then on another very similar BMW motorcycle it would not help as much. 

 

The BMW 1100/1150 PTTR wasn't due to the rear wheel tracking offset (at least directly to the rear wheel offset) It was due to more motorcycle  weight being right of the vehicle center line. Some was due to a little more fuel carried right of centerline but most was due to the transmission shafts & internal weight being right of center line. Then if the rear wheel offset stacked up all  the way to the left that would put even more weight right of centerline.  

 

Plus a lot of us old timers believed that the 1100 RT & 1150 RT was probably designed to have a radio so with no radio present that weight was then missing from the L/H side. Not only was the radio weight itself missing with no radio but that weight was carried  farther out from centerline so the loss was more than just the dead weight. 

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

2 hours ago, Skywagon said:

I’m no engineer

And that is why I put that in my note...and why DR  CAN actually explain things from an engineering perspective.  The Houston BMW club is having another Tech Day this Sunday.  There are usually about 30 bikes that show up from nearly new back to airheads.  I'm going to take some time and look at every front tire and see how pervasive the front tire left wear syndrome is here.  The roads in Texas may not be as rough as in other parts of the country.  We aren't built for snow, ice, cold weather.  

 

If you are anywhere near Houston area.  Come give us a visit this Sunday.

[Nexus9]

6 hours ago, dirtrider said:

It could be a lot of things but the bottom line is: unless the area on the tire that is worn is contacting the ground then it can't be wearing.

 

So get some help then lean your motorcycle over until that off-center tire wear is contacting the ground. That lean angle is where the motorcycle must be leaned over to wear tire in that off-center area. 

 

Now that you know the lean angle that is needed to wear your front tire off center just be observant while riding to see if you are actually riding down the road with it leaned over that far. Look at other like-motorcycles riding down the road to see if they are all riding with their motorcycle leaned WAY over that far.   

 

The L/H side front tire wear is pretty far off-center so it should be easy to spot all those motorcycles leaning that far over to the left while riding. 

 

Hi DR,

Correct, we already agree on that.  From my original post:

 

3. The rubber is scrubbed off all the way to the edge of the tire.  I'm not aware of any rubber getting scrubbed off a tire unless it is in contact with the pavement.

 

So, obviously, the excess wear is only happening in left hand turns, which is why in my original hypothesis, I only considered what would be different about this particular bike turning left as opposed to turning right. 

 

I appreciate your input!  I would love to hear any further development of an explanation or solution as to why this symptom occurs! 

[Nexus9]

And BTW, just as a point of reference, if you put a bubble level on that little black rubber circle at the center of your handlebars and go riding, the bubble will stay centered regardless of the angle of your turn, due to the centrifugal force exerted during the turn.  Try it! 

[Nexus9]

2 hours ago, Skywagon said:

And that is why I put that in my note...and why DR  CAN actually explain things from an engineering perspective.  The Houston BMW club is having another Tech Day this Sunday.  There are usually about 30 bikes that show up from nearly new back to airheads.  I'm going to take some time and look at every front tire and see how pervasive the front tire left wear syndrome is here.  The roads in Texas may not be as rough as in other parts of the country.  We aren't built for snow, ice, cold weather.  

 

If you are anywhere near Houston area.  Come give us a visit this Sunday.

 

Hey Sky,

Let us know if you learn anything new!

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Nexus9 said:

And BTW, just as a point of reference, if you put a bubble level on that little black rubber circle at the center of your handlebars and go riding, the bubble will stay centered regardless of the angle of your turn, due to the centrifugal force exerted during the turn.  Try it! 

Afternoon Nexus9

 

That seems somewhat  odd, not the  centrifugal force part as that would happen but the bubble staying centered. The fluid in the level vial must be packing to the right so hard that it prevents the air bubble from moving to the right. (interesting)

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

2 hours ago, Nexus9 said:

And BTW, just as a point of reference, if you put a bubble level on that little black rubber circle at the center of your handlebars and go riding, the bubble will stay centered regardless of the angle of your turn, due to the centrifugal force exerted during the turn.  Try it!

 

Now that sounds like a project for this weekend.  I'll let you know on Monday my results.  I have a professional level that is small enough to fit on that black dot nicely.  

[King Herald]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning King Herald

 

To balance things out you really need the added weight on the left side and as far out from center as possible. If your 1100/1150  motorcycle (what are you riding? ) has a factory radio then you need a lot less (added) weight on the lefthand side of the motorcycle.

 

But if you are now getting symmetrical front tire wear then personally I wouldn't change anything. 

 

 

Mines  the 1100r, so I'd probably notice if I moved all my junk to the left box, from the right, tools, waterproofs, pump etc.

 

I might try it just to see if I notice any difference. I do know it will heel to the right if I take my hands off the bars momentarily on the move, so I must be continually counter-steering slightly at the moment.

 

 

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, King Herald said:

 

Mines  the 1100r, so I'd probably notice if I moved all my junk to the left box, from the right, tools, waterproofs, pump etc.

 

I might try it just to see if I notice any difference. I do know it will heel to the right if I take my hands off the bars momentarily on the move, so I must be continually counter-steering slightly at the moment.

 

 

Evening  King Herald

 

That is easy enough to quickly try. 

[Nexus9]

Another (interesting) point of view from "Fraidycat" dredged up from an archived thread here in BST:

 

"Some years ago I was attempting to solve left side wear on the front tire and I found that the centerline of the rear wheel ran slightly to the right of the centerline of the front wheel. As an experiment I fitted a slightly thicker spacer on the rear wheel to put them on the exact centerline. This greatly improved the wear pattern on the front tire and also all but eliminated the Pull to the right that I had also been experiencing. At the time this 'cure' was challenged by a few riders who had 'cured' the same problem by removing the spacer entirely. So I don't know the what's or why's----or how this may be related to your problem (I had not seen any right side tire wear to speak of on the rear tire). I just throw this out for whatever sense it may make to others more knowledgable ??? "

 

...which is particularly interesting to me because when I mounted my Metzelers, (in my infinite wisdom) I said to myself, "Self", I said, "I bet if I took this spacer out of the back wheel, the bike wouldn't fall to the right as much!"  (In hindsight, it never ceases to astonish me to see what has bubbled up out of this cesspool I call a brain...) 

 

Interesting items of note:

 

1. I received the bike with worn out Pirelli Angels.  When I removed them from the bike, they were thin as tissue paper, but the front was not worn unevenly.

 

2. I removed the spacer, mounted new Metzelers, and of course, now there was a different rider as well.

 

3. 5,000 miles later, uneven tire wear on the left side. 

 

None of this is supporting my original theory.  But just talking about it with you guys is bringing up some great ideas.  I'm thinking that I will replace the rear wheel spacer when I put on the new front tire (the bike is up on the lift for a new clutch and some oil seals anyway), and keep the 12 pounds in the accessory box. 

[Nexus9]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Nexus9

 

That seems somewhat  odd, not the  centrifugal force part as that would happen but the bubble staying centered. The fluid in the level vial must be packing to the right so hard that it prevents the air bubble from moving to the right. (interesting)

 

Well, the force applied to the motorcycle (and rider), whether gravitational or centrifugal, must be straight up and down relative to the motorcycle, or we would fall right or left. 

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

Now that sounds like a project for this weekend.  I'll let you know on Monday my results.  I have a professional level that is small enough to fit on that black dot nicely.  

 

Let's test the theory!!  Can you set up a camera to watch it?  I wouldn't want you riding down the road looking down at your handlebars in a curve... 

[dirtrider]

41 minutes ago, Nexus9 said:

Another (interesting) point of view from "Fraidycat" dredged up from an archived thread here in BST:

 

"Some years ago I was attempting to solve left side wear on the front tire and I found that the centerline of the rear wheel ran slightly to the right of the centerline of the front wheel. As an experiment I fitted a slightly thicker spacer on the rear wheel to put them on the exact centerline. This greatly improved the wear pattern on the front tire and also all but eliminated the Pull to the right that I had also been experiencing. At the time this 'cure' was challenged by a few riders who had 'cured' the same problem by removing the spacer entirely. So I don't know the what's or why's----or how this may be related to your problem (I had not seen any right side tire wear to speak of on the rear tire). I just throw this out for whatever sense it may make to others more knowledgable ??? "

 

...which is particularly interesting to me because when I mounted my Metzelers, (in my infinite wisdom) I said to myself, "Self", I said, "I bet if I took this spacer out of the back wheel, the bike wouldn't fall to the right as much!"  (In hindsight, it never ceases to astonish me to see what has bubbled up out of this cesspool I call a brain...) 

 

Interesting items of note:

 

1. I received the bike with worn out Pirelli Angels.  When I removed them from the bike, they were thin as tissue paper, but the front was not worn unevenly.

 

2. I removed the spacer, mounted new Metzelers, and of course, now there was a different rider as well.

 

3. 5,000 miles later, uneven tire wear on the left side. 

 

None of this is supporting my original theory.  But just talking about it with you guys is bringing up some great ideas.  I'm thinking that I will replace the rear wheel spacer when I put on the new front tire (the bike is up on the lift for a new clutch and some oil seals anyway), and keep the 12 pounds in the accessory box. 

Evening Nexus9

 

You would really have to have an outlier to improve your PTTR by moving the rear wheel farther to the left.   About the only thing that spacing or un-spacing (moving the rear wheel left or right) will do is effect the PTTR. It has no effect on front tire wear that far  left of tire centerline.  If adding the wheel shim back helps then your motorcycle would probably have had  PTTL  (Pull To The Left) without it.

 

The BMW spec on permissible rear wheel offset on the 1100 bike is pretty generous, it's been a while since I looked at the  specification but it is something like 9mm total.

 

Basically  the rear wheel offset (just the offset part) has little effect on anything, it's the offset's effect on the weight shift left or right of the vehicle's centerline that effects the PTTR.  

 

The basic problem with the BMW 1100 is there is more weight right of centerline due to transmission design & a little more fuel carried right of centerline. Remove the shim & add a radio to the radio box & it is close but still slightly right side heavy. Put about 8-10 pounds in the radio box & they usually ride without PTTR.  

 

On the real bad PTTR 1100 bikes we used to not only remove the wheel shim but also shim the final drive R/H pivot pin out with a spacer washer then adjust the L/H pivot pin in more (gives even more right movement to the rear wheel. And even then, on the real bad ones, add some extra weight to the radio box.  

 

Some riders even moved the entire swing arm over slightly at the transmission. To me this was a lot more work than how much it helped so I just added some weight to the radio box. 

 

Actually after my 2nd or 3rd 1100 I didn't do much about the PTTR as I just rode the darn things with the PTTR & didn't dwell on it.  

 

  

 

 

[Nexus9]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

On the real bad PTTR 1100 bikes we used to not only remove the wheel shim but also shim the final drive R/H pivot pin out with a spacer washer then adjust the L/H pivot pin in more (gives even more right movement to the rear wheel. And even then, on the real bad ones, add some extra weight to the radio box.  

 

Some riders even moved the entire swing arm over slightly at the transmission. To me this was a lot more work than how much it helped so I just added some weight to the radio box. 

 

Very nice!  But the question is, when you moved the rear wheel to minimize PTTR, did anyone notice a difference in front tire wear?

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Nexus9 said:

 

Very nice!  But the question is, when you moved the rear wheel to minimize PTTR, did anyone notice a difference in front tire wear?

Morning  Nexus9

 

I never noticed any difference but I never had much of an uneven tire wear issue. 

 

I can't say if other riders noticed any difference as the BIG deal for a lot of 1100/1150 riders was to get rid of that darn PTTR, most could care less about asymmetrical front tire wear as long as the PTTR was reduced or gone. 

 

Adding L/H weight or removing the rear wheel shim was most likely a correct directional step to reduce L/H side front tire wear but I have doubts that it made enough difference to see or measure. 

 

Now that you have a 5,000 mile base line on the first tire try it, get rid of, or reduce, the PTTR then see if that reduces your asymmetrical front tire wear.

 

Try moving that bubble level to your fuel tank filler cap or something that doesn't rotate & change angle like the upper tipple tree then with the motorcycle perfectly upright zerro the level bubble. 

 

Then see where the bubble settles when you are riding straight down the road, this way you can see if any changes like adding the rear wheel shim back, or adding/removing L/H side weight, etc has any effect on motorcycle riding angle while riding straight down the road. 

 

 

 

 

[Nexus9]

Good idea.

 

Also want to make a correction of an earlier post I made - you never know who will come across this thread in the years to come, and I want to be sure I am being accurate.  I found the Pirelli that I had taken off last Spring ("Yes, Honey, I'm going to the dump NEXT weekend...")  and in fact, the left side of the tire is worn slightly more than the right:

 

 

I actually never noticed it when I took it off.  It doesn't seem as bad, but that's not a very controlled study. 

 

I found this on eBay for $17:

 

 

That will give me from zero to six millimeters of offset to play with.  It's unfortunate that this will be such a long-term study.  Looks like I'm going to have to do a lot of riding this Spring.  Oh, woe is me...! 

[Nexus9]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Now that you have a 5,000 mile base line on the first tire try it, get rid of, or reduce, the PTTR then see if that reduces your asymmetrical front tire wear.

 

Having found the Pirelli, the Metzeler is actually the second tire, but I hadn't posted that before you wrote (thank you for your input!).  Always a good idea to create neutral handling in a motorcycle, but now we seem to have evidence that the left side tire wear was worse when the shim was removed.  I'm being careful about drawing conclusions here because we have a different tire and a different rider, so again, not much of a controlled study. 

 

Since I can see that the Pirelli had some (but seemingly less) left side wear with one 2mm shim,  I am thinking that my next experiment will be 2 shims (4mm) to try to create a better wheel alignment, and then use weight on the left side of the bike to bring it into balance.  I've put 12 pounds into the accessory box (radio box?) and I'll try adding 5 lb ankle weights in the left saddlebag until the bike stays straight when I let go on the highway.  The downside to this is that adding 25 pounds or more of additional mass to any motorcycle is definitely not a performance recipe. 

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, Nexus9 said:

 

Having found the Pirelli, the Metzeler is actually the second tire, but I hadn't posted that before you wrote (thank you for your input!).  Always a good idea to create neutral handling in a motorcycle, but now we seem to have evidence that the left side tire wear was worse when the shim was removed.  I'm being careful about drawing conclusions here because we have a different tire and a different rider, so again, not much of a controlled study. 

 

Since I can see that the Pirelli had some (but seemingly less) left side wear with one 2mm shim,  I am thinking that my next experiment will be 2 shims (4mm) to try to create a better wheel alignment, and then use weight on the left side of the bike to bring it into balance.  I've put 12 pounds into the accessory box (radio box?) and I'll try adding 5 lb ankle weights in the left saddlebag until the bike stays straight when I let go on the highway.  The downside to this is that adding 25 pounds or more of additional mass to any motorcycle is definitely not a performance recipe. 

Afternoon Nexus9

 

2 shims might not be a good thing as that not only decreases your lug bolt engagement but that gives more places for slippage between the shims so you could end up with your wheel coming loose.  In my day job I have tested a number automobiles with shimmed wheels for one reason or another & 2 or 3 wheel shims has given us a lot of wheel loosening issues. 

 

If you want a thicker shim  then make a one-piece thicker shim but I can't understand why you would ever want to move your wheel more to the left as that is definitely the wrong direction as your motorcycle is already heavier right of center so moving the rear wheel left will just make that condition worse. 

 

You need to do your own (new) baseline as your riding & cornering is more than likely much different than the last rider. 

 

Just keep track of L/H & R/H corners, turns, especially U turns (most riders U turn to the left), even pulling into parking areas, do you circle left or circle right to point the motorcycle facing out.  

[Skywagon]

For what it's worth, when I had my 1150 RT, I put all kinds of weight on the left side and honestly it didn't do much good.  It would still PTTR sometimes and at a given speed it might PTTL.  

[Nexus9]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

For what it's worth, when I had my 1150 RT, I put all kinds of weight on the left side and honestly it didn't do much good.  It would still PTTR sometimes and at a given speed it might PTTL. 

 

Thanks, David, that's actually worth a lot.  I really don't like the idea of adding more weight, and if it's not going to help with the PTTR, there's not much point to it.

 

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

2 shims might not be a good thing as that not only decreases your lug bolt engagement but that gives more places for slippage between the shims so you could end up with your wheel coming loose.  In my day job I have tested a number automobiles with shimmed wheels for one reason or another & 2 or 3 wheel shims has given us a lot of wheel loosening issues. 

 

Thanks DR, that makes total sense. 

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

If you want a thicker shim  then make a one-piece thicker shim but I can't understand why you would ever want to move your wheel more to the left as that is definitely the wrong direction as your motorcycle is already heavier right of center so moving the rear wheel left will just make that condition worse. 

 

Well, it's not "wrong".  You and I are just focused on two different things right now - you're concerned with PTTR,  and I'm trying to investigate why I go through $150 front tires three times faster than I ever have on any other motorcycle.  Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate all your input.  To me, it's clear that there is something about this motorcycle that is causing this - I don't think my riding style, or number of left or right turns has changed since I got this bike.  So I'm listening to what other folks have changed on their bikes that they claim made a difference in tire wear, and experimenting with that.  Although I appreciate all the info about PTTR,

 

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

I never noticed any difference but I never had much of an uneven tire wear issue. 

 

...it hasn't (so far) seemed to relate to the matter at hand.  But it's all useful info!  

[RT-P]

Very interesting topic. 60 yrs old now and I have tossed a leg over just about any two wheeler you can think of but this 2000 1100 RT-P is my first BMW, bought used from a Ca CHP in 2005.

I started to notice this tire wear as well and in looking for a cause I thought possibly parking garage!

I go down a spiral ramp 4 levels below ground and of course back up every day, since a recent transfer and no longer parking in a sub garage wear no longer happens…….. I usually get 8 to 10 thousand miles on Battlaxes…….

 

My Two Cents,……..

 

Ride short, ride long but ride!

[Lowndes]

On 3/23/2023 at 1:41 PM, Nexus9 said:

And BTW, just as a point of reference, if you put a bubble level on that little black rubber circle at the center of your handlebars and go riding, the bubble will stay centered regardless of the angle of your turn, due to the centrifugal force exerted during the turn.  Try it! 

Just like a glass of water on an airplane (with a good pilot like Skywagon, of course).  

 

That comment a while back about mounting a level on your handlebars to measure the angle of your lean was amusing.  I was tempted to reply that a level would not work in that application, that you would have to use a plumbob, but it wasn't April 1 yet.  A gyroscopic artificial horizon might be your best bet there.

 

I frequently ride with just one side case (tools, pump, plug kit, rainsuit, water bottle, jumper battery, etc) about 20 lb I guess.  It absolutely drives some people to distraction but it's so much easier to get on and off with just one side case.

 

Some say I lean to the right, and I've noticed that my natural position is about 3-4° to the right of the centerline of the bike.

 

I put a lot of miles on a '77 Honda CB750F2 SS.  One day I was sighting/aligning the wheels after tightening the chain when I noticed the front wheel was 3-4° out of vertical alignment with the rear.  I tracked it down to a slightly bent frame from the PO's excursion.  My bro worked at the shop and straightened the fork tubes himself, then called me to say the owner wanted to sell it.

 

NONE of the above seem to make the bike pull one way or another, or make the tires wear one way or another.  Easy to tell about the pulling as I ride with one hand on the bars when I'm bored or sore which points out very quickly what's going on with the stearing and handling.  BTW, I've found that all bikes handle their best with the least input from me.