TPMS Sensor Intermittent Failure

[Bill_Walker]

On Thursday, as I was headed out of Carmel on Carmel Valley Road, I got an alert from the Tire Pressure Monitoring System on my '15 RT, showing no pressure reading on the rear tire.  Out of an abundance of caution (as they say in aviation grounding announcements), I stopped and checked the pressure with a gauge, and it was fine.  So I figured the sensor battery was dead or the sensor failed.  After riding a while, the alert went away and the display went back to my usual default, ambient temperature.  But I dialed it to TP for a moment and saw there was still no reading from the rear tire.  On Friday, there was also still no reading.  Yesterday, I washed the bike and then took it for a short dry-out ride.  I happened to check, and the rear pressure reading was back!

 

So, what do you think?  Dying battery that recovered just enough to give a reading, or failing sensor?  Either way, as far as I'm concerned, it's a problem for the dealer at the next tire change, but I thought it'd be fun to see what people think and if anyone else has had a similar experience.

[Roadking1]

I think your battery is dying. Either way the battery is not replaceable, you have to replace the whole sensor and it costs over $200. I have the same issue with my 14RT with 60k miles, it has gotten worse and worse. I don't understand why the battery is not replaceable.

 

[Bill_Walker]

10 minutes ago, Roadking1 said:

Either way the battery is not replaceable, you have to replace the whole sensor and it costs over $200.

 

Ouch!  That's annoying.  I really like having TPMS, so I'll probably spring for the replacement.  I'm guessing it would make sense to replace the front sensor at the same time.

[longjohn]

2 minutes ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

Ouch!  That's annoying.  I really like having TPMS, so I'll probably spring for the replacement.  I'm guessing it would make sense to replace the front sensor at the same time.

$5 and a little fidgeting can get your tpms working:  

 

 

[Bill_Walker]

9 minutes ago, longjohn said:

$5 and a little fidgeting can get your tpms working:

 

If all goes well.  If not, you've got to demount your tire again.  I also wonder if there's any info on the longevity of this method.

[realshelby]

I bought a gross of the 2032 batteries with solder tabs already on them. I will try this on my rear sensor as I will need a rear tire for the UN ride. IF that doesn't seem to work, I bought a couple cheap generic sensors and a wake up tool to have on hand. I have the GS 911 to use to recognize those if needed. 

[Dave_in_TX]

I've had to replace both the front and rear sensor on my 14 R1200GS. In both cases, the symptoms were what the OP is experiencing. TPMS would work sometimes but not all the time until it wouldn't work at all. When the battery is failing, the TPMS will work intermittently.

[wbw6cos]

So that TPMS issue is the first time that has occurred on your 15' RT?  I ask because I am wondering if my TPMS will work all the way through my new RT's warranty, which begs the question  if battery replacement is needed before the warranty expires - will it be covered  I may want to look into it.   

 

I like the thought of having that option of informing me the instant tire pressure starts going down, but not liking the thought of the lifespan of those batteries.

 

We shall see  

[Skywagon]

they really are expensive...    https://www.ascycles.com/bmw/2014/R1200RT/Wheels and Tires/RDC sensor for rear wheel.html#PartsTable

 

[Bill_Walker]

17 minutes ago, realshelby said:

I bought a gross of the 2032 batteries with solder tabs already on them.

 

A gross?  How often are you expecting the batteries to die, and on how many bikes?  And how much did that cost compared to the price of a new sensor?

[Bill_Walker]

16 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

So that TPMS issue is the first time that has occurred on your 15' RT?

Yep.  '15 RT, 18K miles.  I have a hunch the things are centrifugally activated (based on the observation that no readings are available until after the wheels have started rolling), in which case miles probably matter more than months.

[strataj]

1 hour ago, realshelby said:

I bought a gross of the 2032 batteries with solder tabs already on them. I will try this on my rear sensor as I will need a rear tire for the UN ride. IF that doesn't seem to work, I bought a couple cheap generic sensors and a wake up tool to have on hand. I have the GS 911 to use to recognize those if needed. 

Terry, The 2032 are thinner then the one I pulled out of my sensor a while back I can't believe I didn't write the number down (I feel like *$*) the 2032 will work but most likely for a shorter time.  Tabs are very important, you can't solder to a battery.  I did go with the cheap generic sensors and they have been working fine.  Like you said you need the wake up tool and the GS911, an easy job other then dismounting the tire.  If you are due a tire change it's very easy. 

 

Jay

[longjohn]

12 minutes ago, strataj said:

Terry, The 2032 are thinner then the one I pulled out of my sensor a while back I can't believe I didn't write the number down (I feel like *$*) the 2032 will work but most likely for a shorter time.  Tabs are very important, you can't solder to a battery.  I did go with the cheap generic sensors and they have been working fine.  Like you said you need the wake up tool and the GS911, an easy job other then dismounting the tire.  If you are due a tire change it's very easy. 

 

Jay

The guy in the vid states more than once that the batteries are 2032. Maybe different years vary. 

[strataj]

11 minutes ago, longjohn said:

The guy in the vid states more than once that the batteries are 2032. Maybe different years vary. 

My bike is a 2014 R1200RT.  I  know, but real life told me the battery was thinker, yes the same voltage and diameter.  I put in a 2032 and got it to work but I wan't happy with my solder job (my battery didn't have tabs) and installed the generic ones.  If you decide to exchange the battery please post back and let us know.

 

Jay

[longjohn]

3 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

If all goes well.  If not, you've got to demount your tire again.  I also wonder if there's any info on the longevity of this method.

Another tpms vid shows an inexpensive digital device to let your bike recognize the new tpms before you mount the tire to let you know you are good to go, and in this case he used some Chinese knockoffs, one which shipped with a dead battery. So this guy also had to do a battery r and r. 

[longjohn]

5 minutes ago, longjohn said:

Mod please delete this

 

[longjohn]

And a thread on adv addressing this: https://advrider.com/f/threads/tpms-light-giving-me-fits.746068/ 

[LBump]

If you go the whittle-it-out replacement method you'll need to use a conductive adhesive between the contact tabs and battery.

Let the adhesive set and cover with sealant. This is the economy  way to go which will work fine. Try to get the freshest batteries you can.

 

The other way is BMW; brought my wallet method... and ya don't know how long they've (battery) been on a shelf. 

[realshelby]

17 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

A gross?  How often are you expecting the batteries to die, and on how many bikes?  And how much did that cost compared to the price of a new sensor?

Bill, I ordered them off ebay. $11 or $12 for 10 of them I think it was. So dirt cheap. I did test a couple of them, thinking was that they may be old or junk, but they both tested at 3.4 volts. So that is very good. 

 

I have other uses for a 2032 battery as well. 

[realshelby]

15 hours ago, strataj said:

Terry, The 2032 are thinner then the one I pulled out of my sensor a while back I can't believe I didn't write the number down (I feel like *$*) the 2032 will work but most likely for a shorter time.  Tabs are very important, you can't solder to a battery.  I did go with the cheap generic sensors and they have been working fine.  Like you said you need the wake up tool and the GS911, an easy job other then dismounting the tire.  If you are due a tire change it's very easy. 

 

Jay

Jay, I went with the 2032 based on the video. I will find out for sure soon! Either way, battery life should be a few years if all goes well and that is acceptable. Going forward I will simply install new batteries every 3-4 years depending on when the tires come off. These 2032's with the tabs are going to take some of the problems away of getting the replacement battery to make and maintain contact. I will solder a small lead wire to each of the tps leads. Then to the tabs on the battery. That way I can replace the batteries fairly easy next time. I can understand the oem wanting a sealed battery compartment. But there are other ways to achieve that where you could replace a battery. In today's world I cannot overlook the poor attempt at screwing owners when they need a new tps unit due to battery life. 

[dirtrider]

22 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

On Thursday, as I was headed out of Carmel on Carmel Valley Road, I got an alert from the Tire Pressure Monitoring System on my '15 RT, showing no pressure reading on the rear tire.  Out of an abundance of caution (as they say in aviation grounding announcements), I stopped and checked the pressure with a gauge, and it was fine.  So I figured the sensor battery was dead or the sensor failed.  After riding a while, the alert went away and the display went back to my usual default, ambient temperature.  But I dialed it to TP for a moment and saw there was still no reading from the rear tire.  On Friday, there was also still no reading.  Yesterday, I washed the bike and then took it for a short dry-out ride.  I happened to check, and the rear pressure reading was back!

 

So, what do you think?  Dying battery that recovered just enough to give a reading, or failing sensor?  Either way, as far as I'm concerned, it's a problem for the dealer at the next tire change, but I thought it'd be fun to see what people think and if anyone else has had a similar experience.

 

Afternoon Bill

 

Could be a dying sensor battery, or a failing sensor, or  some type of EFI interference (usually some electronic device carried on, or used on,  the  bike that  interferes).

 

You should be able to ride by your BMW dealer as they should have a  handheld TPMS sensor tester that they hold up next to the wheel in question & that will give a signal condition, the present battery condition, or show current problems read out (usually they do it for free).

 

If the sensor tests out OK then remove ALL electronic devices (like radar detectors & turn cell phone off) then do a ride to see if problem goes away.

[Bill_Walker]

8 hours ago, dirtrider said:

If the sensor tests out OK then remove ALL electronic devices (like radar detectors & turn cell phone off) then do a ride to see if problem goes away.

Interesting point, DR.  The "dry-out" ride had all my electronics off the bike: GPS, V1, Spot, and Sena headset turned off.  OTOH, I've been riding with all this stuff for nearly two years and this is the first time I've seen this indication.

[dirtrider]

14 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

Interesting point, DR.  The "dry-out" ride had all my electronics off the bike: GPS, V1, Spot, and Sena headset turned off.  OTOH, I've been riding with all this stuff for nearly two years and this is the first time I've seen this indication.

 

 

Morning Bill

 

Any chance that when you encountered the issue that you had your cell phone or other electronics mounted or carried in a different location on the motorcycle than usual?  

 

Get the flaky  sensor woken up & tested, if it tests out as having a good battery power & good signal output THEN go after the electronics side of it.

 

I installed a Chinese  HID on a relatives bike last fall & his front TPS reading became unreliable. I thought that I might have knocked something loose doing the install but it was the RFI from HID ballast that was causing the problem. (I moved the ballast & used a thin aluminum partial RFI cover & the problem went away). A simple (cheap) HID install cost me a lot of extra time & work that I didn't bargain for.  

[Bill_Walker]

13 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Any chance that when you encountered the issue that you had your cell phone or other electronics mounted or carried in a different location on the motorcycle than usual?  

Actually, yeah.  Cell phone is usually in the pocket of my riding pants, but because I was wearing my Roadcrafter on this trip and it was raining, I put the phone under cover in my tank bag to keep it dry.

 

The bike is almost due for new tires anyway, so I'll definitely get it checked.

[JamesW]

That's it, now I've really heard everything.  Two hundred bucks to find out what your tire pressure is??  

 

take me right out and shoot me!

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

Actually, yeah.  Cell phone is usually in the pocket of my riding pants, but because I was wearing my Roadcrafter on this trip and it was raining, I put the phone under cover in my tank bag to keep it dry.

 

The bike is almost due for new tires anyway, so I'll definitely get it checked.

 

Morning Bill

 

Maybe run a quick test to repeat the phone placement to see if that will duplicate the error.

[Dave_in_TX]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 11:58 PM, JamesW said:

That's it, now I've really heard everything.  Two hundred bucks to find out what your tire pressure is??  

 

take me right out and shoot me!

Two hundred bucks isn't cheap but it's the only way to get a pressure reading while riding. Twice I've had my TPMS warn me of tire loosing pressure due to a puncture before the bike started to get "squirrelly" giving me time to pull over in a safe spot where I could plug the tire. After plugging, it gave me the capability of monitoring the pressure to verify the plug was holding.

 

[davagail]

14 RT tpms were replaced couple months ago with rpm one warranty! no more stopping to check when it goes haywire.... ride safe keep cool

[Bill_Walker]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:56 AM, davagail said:

14 RT tpms were replaced couple months ago with rpm one warranty! no more stopping to check when it goes haywire.... ride safe keep cool

 

Hmm.  That's an interesting point.  It never occurred to me that a warranty might cover it.  I figured it'd be a "wear item".  I've got an extended service contract with Western Service Contract Corp. with an option that includes electronics.  If it is bad, I might look into getting some of my money back!

[Dave_in_TX]

9 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

Hmm.  That's an interesting point.  It never occurred to me that a warranty might cover it.  I figured it'd be a "wear item".  I've got an extended service contract with Western Service Contract Corp. with an option that includes electronics.  If it is bad, I might look into getting some of my money back!

I have a Zurich extended warranty and it also covered replacement of my two failed TPMS sensors.

[Rob L]

2 weeks ago I rode to Austin and Phoenix to visit relatives.  My rear TPM showed yellow warning and had no pressure indication in southern IL.  I stopped to check the tire and it was fine.  30 minutes down the road the fault cleared and I had a pressure reading again.  This scenario repeated itself usually after a gas stop several times on my trip.  I ignored it.  Today I serviced the bike and removed the rear sensor.  I scraped out the epoxy and removed the battery.  My 2014RT has a CR2050HR Maxell battery with tabs.  I had expected a 2032 or 2025.  The 2050 is a larger (thicker) battery but still 3 Volt.  I tried several sources, but no one stocks these.  I ordered some from an Ebay source, 4 for $19.99 shipped from Mic higan.  I went ahead and installed a CR2025 battery instead so that I could use the bike.  The TPM began working 200 feet down the road.  The 2050 will obviously have more ma and will out last the smaller battery, but the TPM only cares that it gets 3 Volts.  I am hoping to ride with the smaller battery until I need tires.  Way cheaper to replace the battery than the entire sensor.

[strataj]

1 hour ago, Rob L said:

2 weeks ago I rode to Austin and Phoenix to visit relatives.  My rear TPM showed yellow warning and had no pressure indication in southern IL.  I stopped to check the tire and it was fine.  30 minutes down the road the fault cleared and I had a pressure reading again.  This scenario repeated itself usually after a gas stop several times on my trip.  I ignored it.  Today I serviced the bike and removed the rear sensor.  I scraped out the epoxy and removed the battery.  My 2014RT has a CR2050HR Maxell battery with tabs.  I had expected a 2032 or 2025.  The 2050 is a larger (thicker) battery but still 3 Volt.  I tried several sources, but no one stocks these.  I ordered some from an Ebay source, 4 for $19.99 shipped from Mic higan.  I went ahead and installed a CR2025 battery instead so that I could use the bike.  The TPM began working 200 feet down the road.  The 2050 will obviously have more ma and will out last the smaller battery, but the TPM only cares that it gets 3 Volts.  I am hoping to ride with the smaller battery until I need tires.  Way cheaper to replace the battery than the entire sensor.

Rob, thanks for posting the battery CR2050HR in my earlier post I coudn't come up with the number.

 

Jay

[realshelby]

I can confirm the original battery is indeed the CR2050HR. Same voltage, but is a thicker battery. That said, the 2032 would be easier to install considering you probably won't do as neet of an installation as the factory did. 

 

Voltage on original battery was 2.93 volts. New battery was 3.43 volts. This is an easier install than I expected. I used a sharp 1/4" wood chisel to remove the factory covering over the battery. Comes out WAY easier than I might have expected! The oem battery has tabs spot welded to it, you do have to be careful to break those loose from the battery. I soldered a short piece of braided wire to the bottom (-) lead. This makes it much easier to install the battery and then solder the positive leads together. The batteries I bought have the leads already on them. The outer diameter is the same on these batteries, it pushes back in the hole the oem battery was in snugly. I thought about different ways to seal it back up, but ended up just using hot glue. Looks good. The guy that made a video on it uses hot glue, I considered Flex Seal....

 

I took a short ride on the bike after the tpm fix, new rear tire, engine oil change. TPM readout for the rear tire worked every time I brought it up. So I think this works just fine. I will probably do a battery in the front tpm when I change out the front tire next. While the 2032 may not last quite as long as the 2050, it is easy to replace now that I have done it. I am figuring just doing it every 3 years now. 

[strataj]

On 6/18/2019 at 7:04 AM, realshelby said:

I can confirm the original battery is indeed the CR2050HR. Same voltage, but is a thicker battery. That said, the 2032 would be easier to install considering you probably won't do as neet of an installation as the factory did. 

 

Voltage on original battery was 2.93 volts. New battery was 3.43 volts. This is an easier install than I expected. I used a sharp 1/4" wood chisel to remove the factory covering over the battery. Comes out WAY easier than I might have expected! The oem battery has tabs spot welded to it, you do have to be careful to break those loose from the battery. I soldered a short piece of braided wire to the bottom (-) lead. This makes it much easier to install the battery and then solder the positive leads together. The batteries I bought have the leads already on them. The outer diameter is the same on these batteries, it pushes back in the hole the oem battery was in snugly. I thought about different ways to seal it back up, but ended up just using hot glue. Looks good. The guy that made a video on it uses hot glue, I considered Flex Seal....

 

I took a short ride on the bike after the tpm fix, new rear tire, engine oil change. TPM readout for the rear tire worked every time I brought it up. So I think this works just fine. I will probably do a battery in the front tpm when I change out the front tire next. While the 2032 may not last quite as long as the 2050, it is easy to replace now that I have done it. I am figuring just doing it every 3 years now. 

Thanks for the confirmation on the battery CR2050HR.  I put in a set of Chinese senors a couple of years ago, the rear failed within 5 miles of heading out to the National.  I'll be putting in the CR2050HR in the OEM sensors. 

 

Jay

[realshelby]

Jay, it will be interesting to see how you do with those. Getting the bottom negative lead soldered to the battery will be the challenge. If you can, find the 2050 with leads already spot welded to them. I don't trust that the tab will maintain proper contact without soldering. Top positive lead will be easier, especially with a tab already on it. The 2032 fit in there real nice, even with the wire I had under it. But there is plenty of room even if the 2050 has to sit up higher than it did. As long as you can seal it up, you are good. Plenty of room above the sensor, so adding sealer isn't an issue. 

I had a set of the cheapy sensors here in case I screwed up the battery install. But honestly that install isn't hard at all. I could see on the GS 911 that it recognized the rear tps so I felt it was good to finish the installation. Took another ride yesterday and it showed rear are pressure each time. So, so far so good!

[strataj]

1 hour ago, realshelby said:

Jay, it will be interesting to see how you do with those. Getting the bottom negative lead soldered to the battery will be the challenge. If you can, find the 2050 with leads already spot welded to them. I don't trust that the tab will maintain proper contact without soldering. Top positive lead will be easier, especially with a tab already on it. The 2032 fit in there real nice, even with the wire I had under it. But there is plenty of room even if the 2050 has to sit up higher than it did. As long as you can seal it up, you are good. Plenty of room above the sensor, so adding sealer isn't an issue. 

I had a set of the cheapy sensors here in case I screwed up the battery install. But honestly that install isn't hard at all. I could see on the GS 911 that it recognized the rear tps so I felt it was good to finish the installation. Took another ride yesterday and it showed rear are pressure each time. So, so far so good!

Terry, 2 years ago I did put in a replacement battery in the OEM senor but it didn't have tabs, It worked but I didn't have much faith in it so I went with the Chinese stuff.  I found these https://www.ebay.com/itm/182085577865 they should be perfect.

 

Jay

[realshelby]

Yes! Those look perfect! A small piece of braided wire soldered to the sensors bottom tab will make it a lot easier to install this and following batteries. 

 

I think Dirtrider said the BMW machine will give voltage/battery condition readings. I looked for that with the GS 911 but found nothing. I figure/hope I can get three years on the 2032. Or not, but at least we know how to fix the OEM unit cheaply!

[Rob L]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:01 AM, strataj said:

Terry, 2 years ago I did put in a replacement battery in the OEM senor but it didn't have tabs, It worked but I didn't have much faith in it so I went with the Chinese stuff.  I found these https://www.ebay.com/itm/182085577865 they should be perfect.

 

Jay

Those are the batteries that I bought for my next replacement.  I'll need tires soon!

[realshelby]

Well, the rear sensor is still acting up. Often don't get the rear tire readout, and had one of the red light warnings come from it. The battery change for sure helped. It worked perfect for a while. Now it still works better than it did, but not good enough. I assume my rear sensor is simply faulty. So, I will have to decide what to do next....

 

There is NO WAY I will pay BMW $233 for a tire pressure sensor made by Schrader that is nearly the same as so many others for a fraction of the cost.