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Twisties

It's not very hard to boggle my mind...

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Twisties

Bleach Enemas?????

 

Seriously, we've had such a backlash against science and fact:  Anti-vaxx, Global Warming and Evolution denialism and such a growth in conspiracy theories:  Birtherism, Chemtrails, Pizzagate, Sandyhook, even 911 and landing on the moon and so many more, that I'm not sure why I'm shocked by this.  

 

Here we have many of the very same people that won't give their kids a proven safe and effective vaccine, a modern miracle, over fears of all sorts, but they will subject their child to this against all reason. 

 

I read today, as well, people are rejecting vitamin K injections for newborns... no evidence of harm and bleeding deaths all but eliminated...  smh.

 

Some of these people are intelligent, otherwise well informed, successful, etc...

 

What leads to this?  What are the common denominators?  What does this say about us a people and our future as a nation?

 

 

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BendBill

I miss the good old days when pamphlet mongers needed a mimeograph in their basement to spread idiocies.  Now they have the web and 24/7 news.  Adrienne LaFrance of The Atlantic summed it up in her 2017 article, which began with 2000 year-old contemporary rumors swirling around Nero’s role in Rome’s burning:  

 

“Conspiracy theories flourish when people feel vulnerable. They thrive on paranoia. It has always been this way.

 

So it’s understandable that, at this chaotic moment in global politics, conspiracy theories seem to have seeped out from the edges of society and flooded into mainstream political discourse. They’re everywhere.

 

That’s partly because of the richness of today’s informational environment. In Nero’s day, conspiracy theories were local. Today, they’re global. The web has made it easier than ever for people to watch events unfold in real time. Any person with a web connection can participate in news coverage, follow contradicting reports, sift through blurry photos, and pick out (or publish) bad information. The democratization of internet publishing and the ceaseless news cycle work together to provide a never-ending deluge of raw material that feeds conspiracy theories of all stripes.”

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/06/the-normalization-of-conspiracy-culture/530688/

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greiffster
7 hours ago, BendBill said:

That’s partly because of the richness of today’s informational environment. In Nero’s day, conspiracy theories were local. Today, they’re global. The web has made it easier than ever for people to watch events unfold in real time. Any person with a web connection can participate in news coverage, follow contradicting reports, sift through blurry photos, and pick out (or publish) bad information. The democratization of internet publishing and the ceaseless news cycle work together to provide a never-ending deluge of raw material that feeds conspiracy theories of all stripes.”

 

 

Careful, we have a Flat-Earther at our office.  Us globe-heads have been brainwashed by the "Elite" for years.  Go down that rabbit hole for a while......

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Bud

There is a certain segment of the population which is anti-science. They have been encouraged by politicians who also question science when it doesn't jive with their personal ideologies. Just look at the current events in DC where scientists are censored when their findings differ from the political company line.

 

It doesn't bode well for our society. 

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John

I gave the thorium a good run the other day over transcontinental Australia...

 

99F10662-C04F-4FF1-9C14-AC3B71181E23.jpeg.2d79ed6a374c8a709e2cb4d094b44efb.jpeg

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Twisties

But who is Nichel?  Is she cute?

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Bill_Walker
On 5/21/2019 at 9:34 PM, Twisties said:

Seriously, we've had such a backlash against science and fact:  Anti-vaxx, Global Warming and Evolution denialism and such a growth in conspiracy theories:  Birtherism, Chemtrails, Pizzagate, Sandyhook, even 911 and landing on the moon and so many more, that I'm not sure why I'm shocked by this.  

 

You forgot to mention Jade Helm 15: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/02/403865824/texas-governor-deploys-state-guard-to-stave-off-obama-takeover

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Bill_Walker
On 5/25/2019 at 9:37 AM, Twisties said:

Russians again...  Texas Tribune....

 

Yep.  That's when they figured out how easy it was to manipulate some Americans.

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mickeym3

The dumming down of America has been  going on for generations.  Television was the start but guess it was a necessary evil since you won’t find the whole story in a newspaper and television opened our eyes to the whole world, both the good and the bad. At this point as long as most people have beer and sports television they are content to believe what they see on FB and the MSM. A pitiful state to be sure. 

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Mike

I think one needs to start with the assumption that everyone’s lying, since we’ve seen it in abundance...politicians may top the list, but corporations, political activists, journalists, news reporters, and scientists have all gotten in on it.  

 

Social media plays lays a role, but our traditional news media have exacerbated it, and have abdicated their responsibility, in favor of clicks and page impressions.  

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greiffster
3 hours ago, Mike said:

I think one needs to start with the assumption that everyone’s lying, since we’ve seen it in abundance...politicians may top the list, but corporations, political activists, journalists, news reporters, and scientists have all gotten in on it.  

 

Social media plays lays a role, but our traditional news media have exacerbated it, and have abdicated their responsibility, in favor of clicks and page impressions.  

 

that's depressing.

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Antimatter

Anyone watch 'Good Night, and Good Luck'?  The traditional media has always been more interested in selling advertisements rather than telling the truth.  As far as America getting stupider, the US has always been a country ruled by superstition and fear.  You have to remember that after the indigenous people were wiped out, America was settled by a bunch of religious nut-balls.  Since then, we've lurched from one crisis to another, usually based on the fear of the 'other' (black people, gay people, communists, socialists, etc.)  As far as I can tell, this stuff is like a merry-go-round;  oh, look, here comes the fear of gay people and communists again.  The rich need to scarf up some more resources?  (Looks at watch), must be time for another bout of fear of immigrants.  Defense contractor needs a new swimming pools?  Time for another 'war on terrorism' somewhere that'll involve a lot of guided munitions.  Or can we sell a bunch of stuff to our 'allies' in the Middle East.  That'll be good for another year of private school tuition for the kids.

The US was founded by a group of rich, white tax-dodgers.  Spreading fear to allow the 1% to grab more stuff is what we do.  America isn't getting more stupid, the stupid is just spread faster than it used to be.  

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Marty Hill

Antimatter, so sad and so true.

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mickeym3

A bit too jaded IMO, if I felt that way I would seriously look for another country to take up residence in. 

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Antimatter
13 hours ago, mickeym3 said:

A bit too jaded IMO, if I felt that way I would seriously look for another country to take up residence in. 

 

This is my home.  I'm lucky to live in a liberal, tax and spend state, so I work pretty hard to keep things 'nice' here.  We consistently have some of the highest voter participation in the country, so I know that the majority (here, at least) agrees with how I feel.

My opinion is that the America that was is known in popular culture is something that is actually a recent invention, and something we're working to still realize.  Since the frontier was closed, we've been working to improve our society, with the recognition of LGBTQ rights being the latest chapter of the struggle.  The failure of globalism is leading to a rise in nationalism, as folks who are frightened about their futures are easy pickings for demagogues and other extremists.  But, as I mentioned before, the cyclical nature of history makes me realize that each one of these episodes will end with us confronting another aspect of the dark river (racism) that runs through America's history.  I worry that each step forward only comes with a large number of dead and displaced people (as we're seeing in the Middle East), and I also worry that the sins we're committing to keep the oil flowing will come back to haunt us.  But when we empower people, things get better.  I just want us all the recognize that our history has a lot of bad things associated with it, but that if we confront it, we'll all be the better for it.

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Marty Hill

Got some serious morons in that part of the country.

 I served 15 years in the USCG so I will stay but try not to meet the morons.

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John
On 5/31/2019 at 9:34 AM, mickeym3 said:

A bit too jaded IMO, if I felt that way I would seriously look for another country to take up residence in. 

And there I was, thinking of moving over there :grin:

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Bud
3 hours ago, John said:

And there I was, thinking of moving over there :grin:

 

Sorry John, we are full up. :whistle:

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Selden

If you have never seen it, the 2006 film Idiocracy is worth watching. President Camacho's State of the Union address is a classic.

 

 

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John
18 hours ago, Bud said:

 

Sorry John, we are full up. :whistle:

Full of what, Bud? 😂

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Stir
On 5/31/2019 at 6:06 AM, Antimatter said:

 

This is my home.  I'm lucky to live in a liberal, tax and spend state, so I work pretty hard to keep things 'nice' here.  We consistently have some of the highest voter participation in the country, so I know that the majority (here, at least) agrees with how I feel.
 

 

This is my home.  I’m unlucky enough to live in a liberal, tax and spend state.  San Francisco is a literal sh*thole and people are paid to pick up the feces and needles marked by others on an app.  I’ve never seen such a huge homeless problem.  In San Diego, the tents stretch for miles on the freeways.  Meanwhile, those caring, woke politicians fund illegal aliens to the detriment of our veterans, seniors and homeless.  Liberal politicians pass laws making it illegal to be homeless.  Thankfully, lawyers have taken up the cause to get those laws nullified.  Look at any liberal city and you see nothing but poverty and angst.  Detroit has been run by Dems for 50 years.  Great result.  Liberals are like a virus, infecting the sane and safe parts of America.  My birth location, Boise Idaho is being destroyed by liberals.  Great place to live and grow up in.  Liberals move in because it’s so great and then promptly start changing the laws to mimic the mess they left.  No guns, no hunting, no fishing, no fireworks, more permits, more fees, more taxes.  I remember a woman leaving Austin Texas.  “Why are you leaving?”  “It’s too expensive!”  But she never met a bond, fee or tax increase she could vote against.  It’s like liberals lack the ability to connect cause and effect.

 

California cap and trade raises gas prices by two $ a gallon.  My kid pays $2 for unleaded in Texas, we pay $4 for unleaded.  Electricity is very expensive with many poor being hit with a surcharge last summer for using too much.  Turns out that AC is a luxury that only the rich can afford.  I was hit with a $700 surcharge and I have solar!  My mom, a senior on a fixed income, was hit with $500.  That money didn’t go to the utility, but into the state coffers.  The smallest amount I heard of was $300.  Year after year, a proposition passes which promises to fix our roads, or dams or schools.  The money never goes where it was intended.  The $1 increase two years ago for roads was instead diverted to pensions.  As to LGBQT..., they are waking up to the fact that liberals only use them for a vote.  Many are fortunately walking away from the plantation.  My don and father are gay.  They vote conservative.  When chastised by lessor thinking liberals, they can effectively communicate why the Democratic party has become the party of losers.  Many of their friends are walking away.

 

You may feel righteous in feeling the same as the other voters in this state, but it doesn’t make you right.  It makes you the swamp.  Conservatism is the counter culture.  Liberals practice racism and divisive politics.  Liberals cling to their mistaken beliefs that they are the champions of the down trodden when they are actually the catalyst for it. 

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Marty Hill

I had no idea that politics garbage is allowed on this site!  What a danm shame.

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roadscholar

It seems everything was groovy until a contrary opinion comes along..   

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eddd
4 hours ago, Marty Hill said:

I had no idea that politics garbage is allowed on this site!  What a danm shame.

 

Did you bother to read the disclaimer at the head of this forum?  

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eddd

There are many opinions stated by Stir along with some anecdotal statements. I don't intend to address all of them.  That being said, I recall the first time I was in California. It was 1977.  I was stunned by the air quality in the LA area.  I was so put off by it that I crossed it off my list of places to revisit.  I finally make a return visit to the area 35 years later. 

 

Fortunately, forward-looking Californians and others at the federal level recognized the gravity of the situation and took steps over the years that have produced remarkable results.  That takes money and commitment.  I'm not thrilled to pay California prices for fuel when I'm traveling in the state, but I recognize that there was a serious problem that was made significantly better and that requires money and behavioral changes. 

 

Let me use Stir's words to close...with some editing on my part:

"You may feel righteous in feeling the same as the others voters in this state, but it doesn’t make you right."

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Ponch
5 hours ago, eddd said:



"You may feel righteous in feeling the same as the others voters in this state, but it doesn’t make you right."

 

 

I prefer to say, you have a right to your feelings, but your feelings may not be right, often not.  

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Ponch
On 5/21/2019 at 9:34 PM, Twisties said:

Bleach Enemas?????

 

Seriously, we've had such a backlash against science and fact:  Anti-vaxx, Global Warming and Evolution denialism and such a growth in conspiracy theories:  Birtherism, Chemtrails, Pizzagate, Sandyhook, even 911 and landing on the moon and so many more, that I'm not sure why I'm shocked by this.  

 

Here we have many of the very same people that won't give their kids a proven safe and effective vaccine, a modern miracle, over fears of all sorts, but they will subject their child to this against all reason. 

 

I read today, as well, people are rejecting vitamin K injections for newborns... no evidence of harm and bleeding deaths all but eliminated...  smh.

 

Some of these people are intelligent, otherwise well informed, successful, etc...

 

What leads to this?  What are the common denominators?  What does this say about us a people and our future as a nation?

 

 

 

Some conspiracies are true. I prefer to be an analyst, not a theorist. Often, Occam rules, but that doesn't mean the government has our best interests at heart nor that they are truthful with us or anyone else. Michio Kaku did a video on it. 

 

 

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mickeym3

The “belief in nonsense” as Kaku puts it sounds reasonable but is contrary to the widely held belief that some phenomena is truly the work of a power far beyond our imagination.  

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Stir
On 6/2/2019 at 2:53 PM, eddd said:

There are many opinions stated by Stir along with some anecdotal statements. I don't intend to address all of them.  That being said, I recall the first time I was in California. It was 1977.  I was stunned by the air quality in the LA area.  I was so put off by it that I crossed it off my list of places to revisit.  I finally make a return visit to the area 35 years later. 

 

Fortunately, forward-looking Californians and others at the federal level recognized the gravity of the situation and took steps over the years that have produced remarkable results.  That takes money and commitment.  I'm not thrilled to pay California prices for fuel when I'm traveling in the state, but I recognize that there was a serious problem that was made significantly better and that requires money and behavioral changes. 

 

Let me use Stir's words to close...with some editing on my part:

"You may feel righteous in feeling the same as the others voters in this state, but it doesn’t make you right."

 

Yes, opinions, mine.  I remember when smog was so bad you couldn’t see 100 yards and your lungs would hurt to breathe it.  CARB did remarkable things to reduce it to minimal levels.  My issue with the gas tax is that the expenditures were not tied to the tax.  If they actually used the money to improve roads and implement useful mass transit, I’m in.  I loved using mass transit in Europe.  I didn’t need a car.  This money was used to shore up the fat public pensions that are underfunded.  

 

Every public worker’s pay is available on a gov website.  Most pensions are over 100k a year.  My mom, bless her heart earns that in retirement after 30 years as a high school teacher.  But work in the private sector, save to a 401, with SSN, you won’t produce that income for very long.  The pension system is unsustainable.

 

Several years ago, San Diego increased the local sales tax to improve the roads.  The fine print however said that only 4% of the funds would go to road repair.  The roads are merely patched.  The money went to shore up San Diego pensions.  A voter referendum to move public workers to a 401 passed.  The unions have been working to undo the will of the voters. The union is really only interested in dues.  A friend worked at Alpha Beta, a grocery store, for 20 years.  She left with a piece of paper saying she’ll get 1800 a month on retirement.  Several years ago, she got a letter saying, sorry, underfunded.  You’ll be getting 300 a month instead.

 

In the larger scheme, California panders for votes, but suggest some of those homeless shelters get built in their neighborhoods and their is massive pushback.  So much for all that liberal compassion.

 

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roadscholar

Just listened to a report on NPR no less that fires in Borneo purposely set by farmers create more pollution than the entire US for whatever that’s worth.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
14 hours ago, roadscholar said:

Just listened to a report on NPR no less that fires in Borneo purposely set by farmers create more pollution than the entire US for whatever that’s worth.

 

Reuters article on the subject.  They don't say so explicitly, but I'm sure they're talking about particulate-matter pollution, not CO2.  PM has limited residence time in the atmosphere - it eventually gets washed out by rain - so it tends to be more of a regional problem than a global one.   And since we've gotten really good at controlling PM emissions in the US, it's not hard to imagine a much smaller country being able to exceed our PM output by burning forests willy-nilly.

 

<browses web, reads some more>

 

OK, I stand corrected, sort of: Indonesia puts out a whole lot of CO2.  Not as much as the US, but it's high up on the list of bulk emitters.  Interestingly, it's not just the burning of surface vegetation (trees, grasses, etc.); it's the continued smoldering of the deep layers of peat below ground, a feature unique to that region, which hold a lot more carbon than surface vegetation.  Wow.

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