Cars..

[Hosstage]

Or walking thru the door and telling the wife you bought another motorcycle...

[Rougarou]

1 minute ago, Hosstage said:

Or walking thru the door and telling the wife you bought another motorcycle...

 

Worse than that for me is when I walk through the door and say that the stoopid gas pump didn't give me a receipt!!!! (she does the bills)

[Hosstage]

Just now, Rougarou said:

 

Worse than that for me is when I walk through the door and say that the stoopid gas pump didn't give me a receipt!!!! (she does the bills)

Sometimes I think I'd rather run into the burning building!

[Rougarou]

6 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

Yeah, or maybe like the guys that kick in doors when loaded AK’s are trained on that same door from an inside back corner of the room.  Take Some Serious Planters right there! 

 

 

[TEWKS]

And not even an accidental discharge with that dismount!  

[TEWKS]

Bill I asked my neighbor about this. He’s going to think I’m a sandbagging Porsche guy.  Also asked about “paint work”.   Haven’t heard back yet.

 

[roadscholar]

IMS failure rate is about 1-3% on cars from '00-05 I believe but if it goes can be catastrophic. Some people say it happens more often with cars that get run hard at track days or ones that don't get driven much and sit a lot. I have one of the latter, a 2000 996 w/53k, but also an '02 Boxster w/120k, no problems with either so far. The 01 S has had it replaced and on the '08 is supposedly almost non-existent. '09 on had it completely resolved. Wasn't trying to scare you but mentioned it more as a negotiating tool because it is a thing. Also if it was going to happen it probably already would've by now but of course nothing is certain. 

 

I thought you didn't like the color : ) Actually I kinda like that blue but when eyeing a used Pcar color shouldn't be one of the higher priorities, ask youself if you could learn to like it, if not then take a pass. A set of 18" or 19" (factory) wheels would do a lot for the aesthetics of that car which aren't cheap so maybe factor that in too, but could always come later. Two things to check if you drive it, see if the clutch chatters at all on release and if the brakes pulsate (warped rotors), unlikely at that mileage but can be an indicator of how it was treated. Maybe ask for the VIN for a Carfax report but I don't always trust those, yeah he's gonna think you became a Porsche weenie pretty quickly : )    

[TEWKS]

Thanks for all that, Bill!

He actually just got back to me and said the IMS  bearing was inspected and cleared as “being good” at a cost of seventeen hundred bucks.

 

Yeah, the paint color wouldn’t have been my first choice but the amount of green it would take to get that silver makes the blue pretty cool! 

 

He’s going to get a bottom line $ on it in the next few days.

 

The herd culling has begun. The YZ 450 might be gone this weekend. 

[John Ranalletta]

More Porsche candy.

 

 

[TEWKS]

Bill, an old flame of yours? 

 

 

[roadscholar]

Yep that's it, I got it in 2000 (traded the 910 and 911ST) it underwent a 4 year restoration then I sold it to Cameron in '07. It was too nice to race, for me anyway, plus I was losing interest in racing after 30 years. There were about 35 908's made but only 5 short-tail coupes so a pretty rare bird. It's worth a good bit more now than when I sold it but who knew, probably better off going to someone that would use it regularly. Bad pic but I liked the blue nose better.

 

    

 

Here's another video I hadn't seen before, just some still shots but gives the specs. In the cockpit shot check out the ignition key with the holes drilled in it just left of the steering wheel, indicates how obsessive they were with weight saving.  

 

 

[roadscholar]

Here's a video of Brian drivng a 908/3 at Laguna Seca. The 908/3 was a specially built chassis (aluminum and weighed 200 lbs less) with the axles at the rear of the trans which moved the driver forward a foot or so for even better weight distribution. It was used to compete at twisty circuits like Nurburgring and Targa Florio and was faster at both than the 640hp 12 cylinder 917.  

 

 

[Rougarou]

Last night at our little towns cruise in.  It's the last Friday of the summer months and this is the first time that I saw a high end sports car. 

[ESokoloff]

11 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Last night at our little towns cruise in.  It's the last Friday of the summer months and this is the first time that I saw a high end sports car. 

 

What about that Cobra in the background?

 

We know you don’t like snakes but come on........

[TEWKS]

Could this really be worth $9,500 bucks?  
 

edit…

I’m gonna say no, unless Steve McQueen himself took this particular car on a few hot laps at Le Mans. 

[Rougarou]

21 minutes ago, ESokoloff said:

 

What about that Cobra in the background?

 

We know you don’t like snakes but come on........

 

It's for sale by owner.  I don't know enough about them to tell if the thing was an actual cobra or a kit cobra.  Does need some finishing touches from what I saw on it.

[realshelby]

3 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

 

What about that Cobra Kit Car in the background?

 

That needed a little editing.....

[ESokoloff]

3 hours ago, realshelby said:

 

That needed a little editing.....

Besides the phony knockoff’s what gives it away?

[roadscholar]

7 hours ago, TEWKS said:

Could this really be worth $9,500 bucks?  
 

edit…

I’m gonna say no, unless Steve McQueen himself took this particular car on a few hot laps at Le Mans. 

 

I sure hope not, appears to be garbage from one end to the other. But, 912's have seen a resurgence of late and gained a decent following, here's some that sold on BaT to get an idea but they're all over the place depending on a lot of factors. Click on the ones at the bottom of the chart to get a similar comparo to that one.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/912/?q=porsche 912  

[realshelby]

6 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Besides the phony knockoff’s what gives it away?

Wheel opening shape and clearance, hood scoop, roll bar, badging, extraction vent, exhaust.........

[ESokoloff]

16 hours ago, realshelby said:

Wheel opening shape and clearance, hood scoop, roll bar, badging, extraction vent, exhaust.........

I got nothing 

[roadscholar]

On 6/25/2021 at 10:25 AM, John Ranalletta said:

More Porsche candy.

 

 

 

The video got me thinking about the developement of the 911 (and before it 356) and how a quirky little rear engine car evolved into a comfortable supercar a normal person can drive fast w/o endangering themselves, albeit over a period of nearly 60 years and ever-increasing pricetag. It also got me thinking about the Chevy Corvair and how Ralph Nadar's book, Unsafe At Any Speed had a hand in it's demise and what might've been if GM engineers had had an opportunity to pursue it. Athough as just one sporty/econo model in a huge corporation of many and run by committee probably not much chance but I like to think it could've transitioned into the Corvette's less powerful but more fun little brother. In the 60's I was given spirited rides in two cars that shaped my attitude away from muscle cars and toward the more balanced, handling oriented car. The first was a '63 Turbo Corvair Spyder and the 2nd a '65 Porsche 912. There were quite a few curvy roads where we grew up because of all the lakes, the Porsche especially could carve up those roads like nothing I'd imagined. 

 

Porsche knew it had a problem early on with the 911, unlike the Beetle a car that was fast enough to become unstable at higher speeds. The front end had a tendency to float/wander at triple digits not to mention the dreaded trailing throttle oversteer especially in fast sweepers. The first remedy/attempt was to attach a thick lead strip inside the front bumper (67, 68) to help counteract rear weight bias. The next was to lengthen the wheelbase and rear trailing arms in '69 and putting two smaller batteries in their own compartments ahead of the front wheels. This helped a good bit but made the car bigger/heavier, a trend that's continued throughout it's life. As it got more powerful in the 70's and 80's stabilty and handling were addressed with wider back tires and spoilers to increase rear downforce. From 1989 to '97 the 964 and 993 got much improved suspension and optional AWD making the car even more forgiving. With the 996 in '98 an entirely new chassis improved handling and stability again but by then computers had arrived and could intervene if things got too dicey.

 

https://www.total911.com/suspension-a-porsche-911-history/

 

I never read Nadar's book but just did a little poking around and found this commentary/review and found it interesting, as they say YMMV : ) 

 

Sep 19, 2016Sam Weaver rated it liked it

Ralph Nader’s 1965 Unsafe at Any Speed depicts the American Interstate Highway System as a dystopian death-trap, a smog-filled wasteland littered with the burned-out bodies of overturned Corvairs found on every corner, the pavement permanently stained red from the splatter of drivers becoming impaled on their own steering columns. While Nader makes a compelling case that serious design flaws pervaded products coming from the big three American automobile manufacturers during the second half of the 20th century, his narrative seems to lean heavily on anecdotal evidence and some scant statistically validated studies by Cornell—potentially due to the fact that those same automakers obstructed efforts to undertake such analysis.
In the current era, where safety innovations such as seatbelts, anti-lock braking systems, and blind-spot alerts come standard in most modern cars, it’s difficult to comprehend whether conditions were truly as horrific as Nader claims. Additionally, the events leading up to and subsequently following the then 31-year old attorney’s bold and bombastic little book help to inform modern readers about Nader’s motivations and lasting legacy as a consumer advocate.

American roads during the late 1950s and early 1960s were, indeed, much more dangerous than they are today, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). In 1965, the year the book was published, traffic fatalities reached a whopping rate of 24 per 100,000 in the population; 2013, by contrast, saw roughly 10 fatalities per 100,000. Not only are the roads demonstrably safer today, but the federal agency responsible for collecting those data came into being merely five months after Nader testified on the senate floor during 1966 safety hearings led by Abe Ribicoff.

At those hearings, Nader deftly served up shocking descriptions of industry negligence with a side of genuine pathos. When asked about his motivations by Senator Robert Kennedy, Nader responded, “Because I happen to have a scale of priorities that leads me to engage in the prevention of cruelty to humans,” according a 2015 piece in The Nation titled ‘How Ralph Nader Changed America,’ by Mark Green. In that essay, Green extols Nader’s genuine and deep-seated commitment to protecting American consumers, which led the attorney to parlay his rising star-status after the highly-publicized hearings into forming a national advocacy group called Nader’s Raiders (Green, 2015).

Passionate testimony doesn’t pay bills, however, which is why the funding source for the nascent Nader’s Raiders deserves special mention. Before the publication of Unsafe at Any Speed, executives at General Motors attempted to dig up dirt on Nader in an attempt to discredit him. When the investigations didn’t turn up anything sufficiently scandalous, hired detectives tapped Nader’s phones and even solicited prostitutes to try and trick the crusader into getting caught in a compromising position, according to an essay in Legal Affairs. After the incidents, Nader successfully sued for invasion of privacy, netting $290,000 in an out-of-court settlement (Longhine, 2005). Publicity from the lawsuit likely helped his cause tremendously, providing the public with an easy-to-digest narrative starring a handsome young heroic attorney facing off against unsavory, money-motivated CEOs.

Seed money from the lawsuit allowed Nader to establish the Center for the Study of Responsive Law. And Nader‘s Raiders didn’t stop with the Automobile industry after 1966. Multiple major regulations and federal agencies that people take for granted today such as the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Consumer Product Safety Administration, and even the access to government through the Freedom of Information Act of 1974 all arose out of the attorney’s efforts according to biographical information from Nader’s website (The Essential Nader, n.d.).

Beyond motivating legislative action by politicians, and ruffling feathers among auto-industry titans, Unsafe at Any Speed also attracted national attention, climbing best seller lists alongside Truman Capote’s In Cold Blood during 1966, according to a 2015 New York Times retrospective piece titled “50 Years Ago, ‘Unsafe at Any Speed’ Shook the Auto World.” Clearly the book did better than expected, given that Nader’s initial pitches to publishers were met with dismissive rejections, claiming that the story would only be interesting for insurance agents (Jensen, 2015). Even after completing the manuscript, the book nearly never saw the light of day because Nader left the first typewritten draft in a taxicab, according to several sources, including a 2016 snippet in Automotive News. Despite these inauspicious beginnings, the book now sits on a pedestal within the collective consciousness as a consumer-protection classic; TIME magazine ranked the manuscript as #21 on its 2011 list of 100 best non-fiction books.

Nader remains a public figure and passionate advocate, though most millennials associate his name primarily with the disastrous 2000 presidential election, rather than his historic advocacy efforts. Shortly after the highly-public 1966 hearings, Corvair sales did see a steep decline and Lyndon Johnson did create the NHTSA, however, the automobile industry dragged its feet for decades before implementing some of Nader’s other recommended safety measures, like airbags, as described in a piece for the New York Times (Tullis, 2013). Industry executives apparently issued delayed mea culpas in their autobiographies. Former General Motors executive John DeLorean admitted the veracity of Nader’s critiques in his 1979 book On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors; Lee Iacocca, the former head of Ford and Chrysler, called the Corvair terrible in his memoir, according to the Wikipedia entries about those books.

Despite historical vindication, Nader seems skeptical that similar social change could be brought about by one explosive book today. Writing on his blog in September, 2016, Nader decried the fact that “corporate media gives us celebrity stories, sports, natural and man-made violent disasters, political horseraces and just plain fluff.” (Nader, 2016). He laments that getting such legislation passed would be “very doubtful, without a brand new Congress,” and decries the sense of apathy among modern Americans, saying, “There is less perceived rumble from the people than in the nineteen sixties” (Nader, 2016).

Unsafe at Any Speed is far from perfect, and, without historical context, the prose is occasionally enough to send skeptical eyebrows arching sky-high. However, dramatic decreases in highway fatalities after the government started paying closer attention to the automobile cannot be denied. The fact that the book inspired automobile industry executives to do some deeply stupid things in an effort to discredit Nader, as well as the now-nearly-unheard-of speed with which congress enacted legislation in response to Nader’s accusations, both testify to the text’s motivational power.
America still may be a country with “far more solutions than it applies and far more problems than it deserves,” (Nader, 2002), and muckraking paperback manuscripts might not be the medium for inciting social change in the 21st century. But Unsafe at Any Speed still resonates as a little book that set off big changes. (less)

flag3 likes · Like  · see review

 

    

[John Ranalletta]

In the 60's a friend (whose mother owned a Chevy dealership) had a Black Corvair Monza Spyder convertible.  Beautiful car. 

[roadscholar]

Agree, the one I rode in was a red metallic with wire wheels (hubcaps), great looking, sounding, and quick. The 912 was Irish Green, not a lot of giddyup with 4 cylinders and 105hp but handled amazing (at the time) with the much lighter engine. 

 

 

[fourteenfour]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:11 AM, Rougarou said:

 

Worse than that for me is when I walk through the door and say that the stoopid gas pump didn't give me a receipt!!!! (she does the bills)

 

Just use your phone's camera. I use it when traveling to record receipts that I do get and also for purchases like at gas pumps where it doesn't print.

[Rougarou]

57 minutes ago, fourteenfour said:

 

Just use your phone's camera. I use it when traveling to record receipts that I do get and also for purchases like at gas pumps where it doesn't print.

 

C'mon man, I'm trying to balance a bike while sitting on it and all that stuff hoping that it doesn't blow up.

 

Anyway, that'd be nice and all, and a great suggestion if I did the financial balancing act, but, I drop the paper receipts for her in a little black box I made on the side of the refrigerator.  Since I never know when she's gonna balance the income/expenses, I'd be out of a phone for a while,....and would probably miss a few receipts due to fill ups with no phone and no printout.  I think she balances out everything every two or so months,.....I dunno.

 

 

[Hosstage]

If you got off of the bike to fill it, a pic wouldn't be so difficult...........  😉

Then, you could just send it to her so she has it when she balances the books.

[Rougarou]

53 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

If you got off of the bike to fill it, a pic wouldn't be so difficult...........  😉

Then, you could just send it to her so she has it when she balances the books.

 

Trying to keep my stop under three minutes, life is short, can't waste it at the fuel farm 

[TEWKS]

Richard only got off the bike this time because of a tire change!  

[TEWKS]

The blue 05 Boxster is offered at $19,000 with  23,000 miles. How’s that number sound to you Bill?  Seems the internet says 5-17 thousand which is almost useless info.

 

The owner wants to keep it for the summer so that gives me time to think if I really need it. Does everyone need at least one Porsche in their life? I bet I know that answer! 

[Rougarou]

14 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

The blue 05 Boxster is offered at $19,000 with  23,000 miles. How’s that number sound to you Bill?  Seems the internet says 5-17 thousand which is almost useless info.

 

The owner wants to keep it for the summer so that gives me time to think if I really need it. Does everyone need at least one Porsche in their life? I bet I know that answer! 

 

Ok, buddy, you sure you want a little car

 

 

[TEWKS]

Hoyer Lift, no problem.  

[Rougarou]

5 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

Hoyer Lift, no problem.  

 

I'd look at the Panamera, if'n I's looking for a Porch

[TEWKS]

Yeah if this happens it’s only going to be used as a toy car so, no need to move people.

[roadscholar]

5 hours ago, TEWKS said:

The blue 05 Boxster is offered at $19,000 with  23,000 miles. How’s that number sound to you Bill?  Seems the internet says 5-17 thousand which is almost useless info.

 

The owner wants to keep it for the summer so that gives me time to think if I really need it. Does everyone need at least one Porsche in their life? I bet I know that answer! 

 

If it's really nice and looks and drives like a 23k mile car it's in the ballpark and probably a decent deal. It's less than most of the comps on BaT but those are spiiffed up and with highly detailed presentations to a target audience which helps. They're the high end of the market but at the same time did sell for real money and are an indicator of where it's trending. Scroll down to the sold cars for recent transactions.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/boxster/?q=porsche boxster

 

Older German cars can be finnicky and downright expensive at times but can also be very reliable so it's almost a crapshoot what you end up with and low mileage isn't always a guarantee of smooth sailing. The advantage is if you keep it a couple/few years and put 20-30k on it's still low mi when you sell and likely worth what you paid if not more down the road. Boxsters have seen a surge in the last few years because they're the entry level Porsche now plus people are discovering how much fun they are.

 

Two things I try to recommend is find a competent (really good/honest) independent shop for maintenance and repair and set aside a rainy day fund (@5k) for the unexpected, it may not be necessary but can ease the pain if it is. 

 

And keep in mind they aren't everyone's cup of tea, but if you enjoy the art of driving something that's almost telepathic on small sinewy backroads there isn't much else like it. Regardless I'd try to get a drive or at least ride in one before pulling the trigger although I'm a very bad example, did just the opposite with mine and a bunch of motorcycles over the years : )

 

 

 

[TEWKS]

Thanks Bill, I appreciate you taking the time and giving your thoughts! 

[roadscholar]

If interested in doing your own maintenance/mods/repairs here’s a good book that explains almost everything. It came with my 01 S, the owner was a doctor did his own maintenance at home and took really good care of the car.

 

 

[Hosstage]

My neighbor was a Vette guy, had a few including a nice '68. Picked up a Boxster ('05?) in great condition, low miles, and he's a wheeler dealer so I know he paid a very good price for it. He loves it, says it puts his Vettes to shame in handling, fit and finish, and power is more than fine.

He always has a pretty big smile leaving and returning.

[TEWKS]

Just mumbling out loud here.  A comparable car to the blue one, I think.  

[wbw6cos]

Ooh, a Silver Surfer.

[MikeB60]

24 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

Just mumbling out loud here.  A comparable car to the blue one, I think.  

Automatic, yuk!  

 

PS, dont tell anyone my Mustang is automatic...

[TEWKS]

I won’t!  I think (need to ask for the build sheet) the blue Boxster I’m looking into is a five speed manual. You’d think I’d know that where the car was garaged for approximately 14 years 100 feet from my front steps. 

[roadscholar]

I actually liked my '03 Tiptronic, much nicer around town than always having to shift, 5 speed auto with manual mode on the console or steering wheel. Not as quick as a manual (the later PDK is quicker than manual) but still enough pep to keep it fun, who the heck runs a Boxster flat out all the time anyway : ) 

 

 

[Hosstage]

Sports cars should have manual transmissions, unless you're really old or have bad knees.

Aw hell, even Shelby had an automatic put into his personal AC.

[TEWKS]

As the thoughts and thought process continues. 
 

 

[Bill_Walker]

Things you don't see every day (unless you live on my street): a Porsche Cayenne equipped for off-roading.  It has a big external spare tire on the back, too.  The tires don't look like serious off-road tires, though.

 

 

[Rougarou]

6 minutes ago, Bill_Walker said:

 The tires don't look like serious off-road tires, though.

 

 

 

 

Neither does the Porsche,....looks like a poser

 

[Bill_Walker]

9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Neither does the Porsche,....looks like a poser

Yeah.  Still, it's the only Cayenne I've ever seen with _any_ of that stuff on it. 

[roadscholar]

7 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Neither does the Porsche,....looks like a poser

 

 

This is what a poser looks like.  

 

 

 

 

 

Actually a Cayenne is pretty capable off road as SUV’s go. The 1st gen with air suspension has a ground clearance range from 6.25 to 11 in. and can hydraulically disconnect the sway bars for more suspension travel and articulation at slow speeds. At speeds over 130mph it automatically lowers itself a couple inches in case you need to make up some time on the Trans Siberia Rally which it won in 2008.

 

[Rougarou]

5 hours ago, roadscholar said:

 

This is what a poser looks like.  

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely, that is exactly what a poser is.

 

Quote

 

Actually a Cayenne is pretty capable off road as SUV’s go. The 1st gen with air suspension has a ground clearance range from 6.25 to 11 in. and can hydraulically disconnect the sway bars for more suspension travel and articulation at slow speeds. At speeds over 130mph it automatically lowers itself a couple inches in case you need to make up some time on the Trans Siberia Rally which it won in 2008.

 

 

Um, ya, that's "off-road", looks like a splash through a muddy hole which any vehicle can do 

 

When over 70% of the entrants are Porches,......I'd kinda think one would win.

 

Anyway, others definition of "off-road" and my definition of off-road are quite different.  Here's a neat little Yota FJ, having fun.