Throttle Body "MORE" cracked cable cams/pulleys

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Rogerl said:

I received the new aluminum cams today. I will install them over the weekend. I was reading the Haynes manual tonight for how to remove the throttle body from the bike. The manual says that when you remove the fuel injectors you should replace the O rings on the fuel injector housing. Do I need to replace the O rings?  

 

Thanks

Roger L

Morning Roger

 

I only replace if they look degraded or are too swelled up to easily reinstall. I do put a very small smear of silicone grease on the "O" rings before re-seating.  

 

Obviously if they show signs of leaking after reinstalling you need to replace. 

[Rogerl]

Thanks for the replies. I have not bought new O rings. I will look at them when I take out the injectors. If they look god i will apply a little lube and re-install.

 

Thanks Again

 

Roger L

 

 

[Rogerl]

Last night I removed the RH throttle body. That is the one with the cracked cam. While taking it off the throttle cable guide tube came loose from somewhere under the fuel tank. I am assuming that there is a splitter under the tank where the single cable from the throttle splits to the two cables. I looked on the parts diagrams last night and could not find a diagram of what this looks like. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Roger L

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, Rogerl said:

Last night I removed the RH throttle body. That is the one with the cracked cam. While taking it off the throttle cable guide tube came loose from somewhere under the fuel tank. I am assuming that there is a splitter under the tank where the single cable from the throttle splits to the two cables. I looked on the parts diagrams last night and could not find a diagram of what this looks like. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Roger L

Morning Roger

 

There is a splitter box on the L/H side  (follow the L/H side short cable to the box) it is mounted vertical) you can access it without removing the fuel tank but not easily. 

 

If the outer cable housing is JUST pulled out of the splitter box then you can keep tension on the throttle body cable while pushing the outer housing back in. 

 

If the cable became unhooked inside the splitter box then THAT is a pain to re-connect (especially if your motorcycle has cruise control). 

 

 

 

[Rogerl]

I got both of the cams replaced this weekend. The job was very straight forward. I am sure glad that I bought the pliers for the band clamps. That made that part of the job rather easy. I found that both of the cams were cracked. I thought that the left one was not cracked but when I got the left throttle body removed there was a crack on the left one as well. I did the right throttle body first and I did not release the cable from the throttle body with the clip. I thought I needed to unscrew the cable sleeve to get the cable out.  That is where I pulled the cable sleeve free from the splitter box. I am glad that I did this with the right hand one because that is the cable you use to adjust the throttle body sync. I was able to push the sleeve back into the socket on the splitter box. I just needed to remove the air intake horn to see where it needed to go.

Thanks to Dirt Rider and all the other people on this forum that have posted how to do this change. Reading over the old posts gave me the information I needed to do this job. Now with the aluminum cams I should never have to do this job or inspect the cams again.

 

Roger L

Edited April 10, 2022 by Rogerl
Added Photos

[CSEngle]

Yesterday, I was merging onto the expressway and had accelerated to speed of traffic. Once in the right lane, I suddenly lost power and a tractor trailer nearly runs me over while continuously on his air horns. A brief moment of panic. I thought I had a catastrophic engine failure for a second, but the bike would still do about 45-50 while sounding like a very loud lawn mower.  Made it the 10 miles home.  Seemed to idle fine, but the left exhaust was hot, right was cooler. I figured either fuel or spark.

 

This morning, I removed all the plastics. Twisted the throttle and checked the TBs. The cam on the right TB was completely gone.

 

I plan on ordering the replacement parts from Bing, but not sure if I'll get the parts with or without the shafts.  Also, I the base idle screw issue has me perplexed. I'm sure the info is around here somewhere, just have to sort through it.

 

I don't suppose there is a video or in depth picture thread of the process of replacing the plastic cams, is there? Thanks, Chris

[aggieengineer]

Please report this event to the NHTSA. It's unforgivable that this has not been the subject of a recall.

As for replacement, first of all leave the idle adjust as it is. More on that later. I used the aluminum replacements by Beemer Bits and have been happy with that. The plastic parts start degrading as soon as they're made. I didn't know how old the Bing replacements would be, or how long they would last. The metal replacements will last longer than me.

 

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, CSEngle said:

Yesterday, I was merging onto the expressway and had accelerated to speed of traffic. Once in the right lane, I suddenly lost power and a tractor trailer nearly runs me over while continuously on his air horns. A brief moment of panic. I thought I had a catastrophic engine failure for a second, but the bike would still do about 45-50 while sounding like a very loud lawn mower.  Made it the 10 miles home.  Seemed to idle fine, but the left exhaust was hot, right was cooler. I figured either fuel or spark.

 

This morning, I removed all the plastics. Twisted the throttle and checked the TBs. The cam on the right TB was completely gone.

 

I plan on ordering the replacement parts from Bing, but not sure if I'll get the parts with or without the shafts.  Also, I the base idle screw issue has me perplexed. I'm sure the info is around here somewhere, just have to sort through it.

 

I don't suppose there is a video or in depth picture thread of the process of replacing the plastic cams, is there? Thanks, Chris

Afternoon CSEngle

 

Definitely get the cams already on the shafts, not a lot more money & a LOT easier to install, it' easy to bend a shaft removing/ installing the cam.

 

Look this procedure over in the old how-to I wrote up a while back. Then ask any questions. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/92006-posted-to-see-how-a-tb-shaft-install-how-to-reads-in-a-full-thread/

[Rogerl]

Is there a link some where so that i can report my cracked cams to the NHTSA?

 

Thanks

Roger Lohrey

[aggieengineer]

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#vehicle

[Rogerl]

Thank You. I filed my report.

 

Roger L

[CSEngle]

2 hours ago, aggieengineer said:

Please report this event to the NHTSA. It's unforgivable that this has not been the subject of a recall.

As for replacement, first of all leave the idle adjust as it is. More on that later. I used the aluminum replacements by Beemer Bits and have been happy with that. The plastic parts start degrading as soon as they're made. I didn't know how old the Bing replacements would be, or how long they would last. The metal replacements will last longer than me.

 

 

 

I'll add mine to the list with NHTSA . Just got the part ordered from Bing. I have an retired police bike that I repaired on a budget and just use for local riding. I'd like to have the aluminum cams, but have too many "investment" projects going now.

 

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon CSEngle

 

Definitely get the cams already on the shafts, not a lot more money & a LOT easier to install, it' easy to bend a shaft removing/ installing the cam.

 

Look this procedure over in the old how-to I wrote up a while back. Then ask any questions. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/92006-posted-to-see-how-a-tb-shaft-install-how-to-reads-in-a-full-thread/

 Thanks! That is exactly what I was searching for. Parts should be here by the weekend. Huge help!

[CSEngle]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:29 AM, dirtrider said:

Afternoon CSEngle

 

Definitely get the cams already on the shafts, not a lot more money & a LOT easier to install, it' easy to bend a shaft removing/ installing the cam.

 

Look this procedure over in the old how-to I wrote up a while back. Then ask any questions. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/92006-posted-to-see-how-a-tb-shaft-install-how-to-reads-in-a-full-thread/

 

@dirtrider, Got my new BING shaft this morning. I printed your post, followed it closely, and had the job done in about an hour. Fired it up and everything seems to be working great. Thanks for your effort in putting this together. I'd have been lost otherwise. Chris

[Ponch]

I recall some getting calls back from the NHTSA and wondered if anyone else has. I have not, but my complaint was 7 years ago. FWIW, I commented on this problem on BMW Motorcycle's FB page. I was contacted by BMW with this questionnaire and basically told them my story with links to several posts here. 

Good afternoon James,

I am responding to your Facebook post.  We are sorry to learn that you are having a service issue with your throttle pulleys.

Please reply to this e-mail with the following information:

 

Contact phone number

Current mileage

Preferred Motorrad Dealer

Is your bike currently experiencing an issue with the throttle pulleys?

Do you have an estimate for the throttle pulley repair?

Was your bike recently repaired for the throttle pulley? 

Please provide a copy of the repair invoice.

I look forward to your response so that I can better assist you.

Kind Regards,

Mark 

 

After I responded, I received this response:

 

Good morning James,

 

We are sorry to learn that you had a prior issue with your throttle pulleys.

 

BMW takes very seriously the safety and well-being of its valued customers and is interested in your feedback.  Your comments and concerns will be shared with the Motorrad Management Team.

 

There are no open recalls or campaigns for your VIN: ZT15234.

 

Thank you again for this information.

 

Kind Regards,

Mark

 

 

I don't expect much at this point. They probably hope people seek and pay for the repairs on their own dime as a lot of time has passed. I guess ignore a problem long enough and it goes away. For me, it soured me from buying another BMW. Not only the failure, but the general reaction, but I suspect it's not unusual. 

[Roy in SC]

My 2006 R1200RT has been mostly good to me for the first 50,000 miles, but has become more problematic as more miles are added.

Without going into all of the details, which are mostly outlined on other posts here, I recently replaced the Throttle Body shafts and cams but that still did not resolve the issues that have plagued me for the past 15,000 plus miles.

The Throttle body cams were cracked, but not as badly as I expected to see.

One issue that still remains is a 6th gear roll on that causes what can best be described as a lean condition as the engine stutters and hesitates.  

The other, more annoying issue is an idle imbalance at idle that I cannot seem to resolve. I am less than 1 point on the Twin Max device at idle, and at 1500 RPM and higher, I am right on.

The engine is not happy at idle and smooths out nicely above 1500 RPM.  I have tried most of the suggestions (reseating the throttle plates, re-learning the TPS, verifying the Stepper Motors) but this issue still remains.

I cannot say exactly when it started, as this has been slowly getting worse despite my efforts to head it off.  

 

To review, if the Throttle Body Plates are properly seated in the center of the throttle body, and I use a ,0015 feeler gauge on the top and bottom of the plate, the idle screw should be the same distance from the stop on both sides.  This is the case on mine.

If the Stepper Motors are shut off via the GS911 when the engine is at operating temperature, then I should get a balanced idle.  Again, I am halfway between 0 and 1, so this is not the case.  

What else can I look at here?  The engine runs great once off idle.

As far as the "lean condition" is there a proper way to check the pressure of the fuel pump to verify it is within specs?  That should not cause the idle and off idle.

Thanks

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Roy in SC said:

My 2006 R1200RT has been mostly good to me for the first 50,000 miles, but has become more problematic as more miles are added.

Without going into all of the details, which are mostly outlined on other posts here, I recently replaced the Throttle Body shafts and cams but that still did not resolve the issues that have plagued me for the past 15,000 plus miles.

The Throttle body cams were cracked, but not as badly as I expected to see.

One issue that still remains is a 6th gear roll on that causes what can best be described as a lean condition as the engine stutters and hesitates.  

The other, more annoying issue is an idle imbalance at idle that I cannot seem to resolve. I am less than 1 point on the Twin Max device at idle, and at 1500 RPM and higher, I am right on.

The engine is not happy at idle and smooths out nicely above 1500 RPM.  I have tried most of the suggestions (reseating the throttle plates, re-learning the TPS, verifying the Stepper Motors) but this issue still remains.

I cannot say exactly when it started, as this has been slowly getting worse despite my efforts to head it off.  

 

To review, if the Throttle Body Plates are properly seated in the center of the throttle body, and I use a ,0015 feeler gauge on the top and bottom of the plate, the idle screw should be the same distance from the stop on both sides.  This is the case on mine.

If the Stepper Motors are shut off via the GS911 when the engine is at operating temperature, then I should get a balanced idle.  Again, I am halfway between 0 and 1, so this is not the case.  

What else can I look at here?  The engine runs great once off idle.

As far as the "lean condition" is there a proper way to check the pressure of the fuel pump to verify it is within specs?  That should not cause the idle and off idle.

Thanks

Morning Roy

 

You should probably start your own new thread on this problem as it could get somewhat long so we probably shouldn't hijack this thread with a long convoluted side thread. So just copy & paste your above post into a new thread starter on your motorcycle. 

 

We will also need some hard data on your twin-max numbers as halfway between 0 and 1 doesn't give us any defined vacuum numbers that we can relate to.

 

BMW gives you up to 25mbar (10" of H2o) side to side difference for at warm engine idle. 

 

Can you get an actual "U" tube liquid  manometer on that motorcycle to give us inches of H2o side to side difference. 

 

Your problem doesn't sound like it is idle balance related, especially if it seems to be getting worse (idle balance is what it is so shouldn't get worse) 

 

To go into this deeper we need it in it's own stand-alone thread. 

 

 

[bimmers]

Have been reading this thread with interest. My early 2006 RT with 40k miles on it has and is running fine, no symptoms of slippage of throttle etc. I don't want to start a project that is not there and will for now leave the Tupperware on and since I use the new -21 RT most of the time and for all longer hauls I should not be risking much.

Any way to inspect the cam condition from above? Under seat. 

AND do we know how frequent this occurrence really is among all hexheads?

 

H

[aggieengineer]

I believe your first symptom of a broken pulley will be one cylinder going to idle power, regardless of throttle position. It has been a long time since I replaced mine, but access for a view is not a big deal. You may even be able to view the area with a mirror and flashlight.

[Ponch]

4 hours ago, aggieengineer said:

I believe your first symptom of a broken pulley will be one cylinder going to idle power, regardless of throttle position. It has been a long time since I replaced mine, but access for a view is not a big deal. You may even be able to view the area with a mirror and flashlight.

For me, both broke at once and I was dead in the water along a four lane. The only one to stop was an old timer on a Burgman. A BMW and HD rider rode by without a look. When I found out what it was, I wasn't a happy camper. I almost shipped them the old throttle bodies with a note telling them what to do with them. 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, bimmers said:

Have been reading this thread with interest. My early 2006 RT with 40k miles on it has and is running fine, no symptoms of slippage of throttle etc. I don't want to start a project that is not there and will for now leave the Tupperware on and since I use the new -21 RT most of the time and for all longer hauls I should not be risking much.

Any way to inspect the cam condition from above? Under seat. 

AND do we know how frequent this occurrence really is among all hexheads?

 

H

Morning bimmers

 

No real good way to check without sliding the plastic covers up then using a mirror & strong light.

 

Those cams give almost no warning BEFORE they completely fracture. Usually the first sign is when pulling out into traffic, or making a pass on the hi-way (something that requires full throttle or at least a lot of throttle).  Usually the motorcycle will completely lose forward pull (both cams break), or lose partial pull (one cam breaks). If the L/H side breaks you lose both air flow to that side & most of the fuel to both sides TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is on the L/H throttle body.

 

We really don't know the full extent of the cam failures, enough that it should be on your list to keep an eye on. Way back a rider would fail a cam or cams & assume it was an outlier. With the subject being out there on the internet for a while now I would assume a number of riders are catching the problem before full cam fracture so we  probably don't hear about a lot of  those failures. 

 

I have seen quite few that have been cracked where the rider just traded the motorcycle in or sold it so who knows what the end result was. The ones we seem to hear about here are the riders that are repairing the problem themselves.  

 

The other thing we don't know is how many 1200 bikes are now riding around with cracked cams but no signs of the cracking as the throttle still works as normal & the rider doesn't even know about the problem. UNTIL! 

[Brunhilde]

A friend and I replaced pulleys on 2006 & 2007 RTs last year. Both were running fine, but all pulleys disintegrated when removed. IMHO, if you have a pre-wethead 1200, it is not a question of "if", but "when". Like my knees. 

[lkraus]

It has been years since I've seen a post from someone who checked their original throttle cams and NOT found a crack.

 

Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I'm glad I checked (and replaced) mine.

 

 

[bimmers]

Ok on a rainy AND cooler day (heat warning in effect now) I will check them out. 

My dealer does not want to touch over 10 year old bikes so independent would be only external option, we can hope for the best and prepare for the worst....

Thanks

 

H