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Wethead 1st impressions and questions--longish


BendBill

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Background:  For the last 11 years and 48+K, my only ride has been a Honda ST1300, a smooth, comfortable, heavy, ultra-reliable machine.  It sold very quickly, and as the new owner trailered it off, I realized it had been my favorite of 6 motorcycles over a total of 25 years of riding.  With a mix of hope and confidence, I trust this new 2018 RT will be my new #1.

 

So yesterday, with snow melted, I took the RT out for a short shakedown cruise. [On the maiden ride from dealer to home over the Oregon Cascades summit in January, I was too focused on hurrying to beat nightfall and freezing temps to analyze ride qualities] .

 

So here are initial impressions in random order.  Questions come at the end.

 

1—Super light clutch pull, coupled with smooth positive shifts [ except for the issue in #8 ]

2—Nice mellow note of the Akrapovic exhaust

3—Trying to make friends with the rider’s seat and not succeeding. Rich’s Saddles in Albany, OR, will likely gain a customer.

4—Mirrors work as I remember from my 1150.  When a bright blur shows up, I just pull in the clutch and the headlights behind come into focus

5—Convenient turn indicator switch, though I know others miss the paddles

6—Dealer-supplied Metzeler Z8 Roadtecs turn in smooth and easy and hold the line nicely in longer sweepers

7—Fast and powerful.  Even staying below recommended 5K, it pulls hard.  Moreover, it feels fast,  maybe due to the exhaust and the big-twin thrum--especially compared to the ST1300, which was so deceptively smooth 

       it was always 80 mph in 3rd before I knew it.

8—As a practicer of smooth shifts, 2nd gear is a challenge to me in Road mode.  If I ease off just a bit, the bike slows abruptly.  A bit more throttle makes the front end scary light.  I’ll pass on ever trying the Dynamic mode. 

       I assume I’ll eventually find the sweet spot

9—Beautiful dash and instrument layout.  The analog tach and speedo look and work great.

10—Naming the envelope slots on the fairing by the term “compartments” is imaginative wordplay.

11—Farkles ordered so far: MachineArtMoto fender extender and OEM cylinder protectors.

12—Future farkles: LED lights—Brake flashy thingy—barbacks—grips--seat . . .

 

QUESTIONS:

1--Does this RT  have automatic turn signal cancellation?  Or does the machine need to go down the road a long while after turning before it cancels ? 

 

2—Has anyone replaced the grips? I miss the old BMW grips.  I even bought them aftermarket for my ST. https://www.actionathletesupply.com/products/ariete-road-bmw-125mm-ring-grip-for-multicontroller-and-heated-grips?variant=6978402222122

 

3--Does anyone regularly mount/dismount by stepping on the left footpeg?  OR is the side stand too fragile for such use over time?  [My clunky boots, coupled with my short inseam and lack of  flexibility will  scuffebags]

 

4—Has anyone changed the front turn sigs to running lights?  My nagging worry about lighting is to make sure any changes do not impact the warranty for the alternator.

 

All answers and comments appreciated.  TIA

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Edited by BendBill
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1.  It does have auto canceling signals.  I believe it's set for about 150 feet.

2.  Look into Grip Puppies.  Wife has them on her RT and loves them.  I'm fine with stock.

3.  Pegs are plenty sturdy.  Use them.

4.  I haven't, yet.  But I'd like to.  What would need to be done is trace each turn signal wire down and tap into it.  Skene sells a front turn signal module that would be able to do this.  Once you can figure out each wire, you'd cut it.  Then the one side feeds the input to the Skene module, the other side goes to the output.  When I get some time this summer, I'm going to probe the wiring and see if I can do this.

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This is the module I was mentioning.  If you don't want to add "extra" LED pods, this is all you'd need.  But Skene has a patented "conspicuity flicker" you should know about.

 

https://www.skenelights.com/online-store/IQ-250-TS-Front-Lighting-Controller-with-Turn-Signals-p80222657

 

I have the P3 brake lights out back.  Just my LED pods, and my trunk light are hooked to it.  That flicker really helps be visible.

 

Up front, I took the easy way out and have the front module that only runs the LED pods, which I have installed on my forks.  I now wish I would have taken the time to trace those wires and do exactly what you've mentioned.

 

Here is more on the flicker.

https://www.skenelights.com/conspicuity-flicker

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Another bit to add to question #1 about turn signal canceling.  I do know on my 2019  RT that while you are at speed on the interstate, you can push the turn signal over and it will flash 5 times and cancel itself out.  Pretty neat feature.  I would guess that is the case on your 2018.

 

Also, the Skenes are worth the investment.  I have the white ones on the front of my C, mounted at the brake calipers (came with the longer bolts, too.)  They are in the flicker mode, which you can toggle on or off of using power on/off method, three times.  Once I installed those, I noticed a significant reduction of "pull-outs" and a lot more double takes.  YMMV

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Regarding #3. The pegs are plenty sturdy and so is the side stand. I have to mount and dismount my 16 by standing on the right peg, because of a leg injury (no, it wasn't from a crash). I'm about 210 lbs. I also used the same method on my 09 RT without any issues.

 

While I've never owned an ST1300, I think you are really going to fall in love with this bike. BTW, there is a substantial improvement in motor performance in Dynamic mode. While I like it, I don't use it often. I think I rode the first 1000 miles in Rain mode just to be safe.  

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I'm not sure you got the response to your first questions #1.  You asked how to cancel the turn signal?  Yes to cancel the turn signal push the selector in. 

 

Jay

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It looks like the R1250RT works differently then my 14 R1200RT.  See page 60 in your owners manual, seems you need to move the control to the center position.

 

Jay

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Thanks for the responses.  BTW, strataj, I made a goof: I meant to ask if the RT now has AUTO turn signal cancel.  I'll try 92Merc's note to see if they auto shut off after 150'

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Bill, Beautiful bike!  IMHO BMW hasn't figured out the self canceling turn signal, or bluetooth for that matter. Both systems are clunky on every BMW I have owned.  They need to reverse engineer the Harley system, it works perfectly.  I just shut them off manually.

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 1:47 AM, BendBill said:

Thanks for the responses.  BTW, strataj, I made a goof: I meant to ask if the RT now has AUTO turn signal cancel.  I'll try 92Merc's note to see if they auto shut off after 150'

 

Morning BendBill

 

Yes, the turns signals do go off (cancel) after a preset distance & time, that is factory set (what the current factory setting is I don't know).

 

BUT, that time & distance to cancel is dealer adjustable  (within reason) so if you don't like yours the way it is just have the dealer change it for you to something closer to what you want. Some dealers don't know about the T/S time/distance setting change available so be somewhat forceful in requesting the change (it is buried a couple steps into the dealer computer procedures)

 

Personally, I always have my auto cancel turned completely off as I absolutely hate the BMW time/distance algorithms as they rely on brake input, set time, & set distance with no regard for actual front wheel angle or actually making a turn.

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1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

Personally, I always have my auto cancel turned completely off as I absolutely hate the BMW time/distance algorithms as they rely on brake input, set time, & set distance with no regard for actual front wheel angle or actually making a turn.

 

Yes, me too. The number of times I have been filtering past a queue of traffic and realised my righthand indicator is no longer flashing.

I'd much rather have it fully rider controlled.

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1 minute ago, AndyS said:

 

Yes, me too. The number of times I have been filtering past a queue of traffic and realised my righthand indicator is no longer flashing.

I'd much rather have it fully rider controlled.

 

Afternoon Andy

 

In the US the dealers will usually turn it off, or set it to max time/distance for free (at least the first time anyhow).

 

Not sure in your country but might be worth asking next time you are  at your dealer.  (if they haven't done one before then you might have to convince them that there actually is a setting to do that).  

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After hearing from Mike, AndyS , and D.R. ,  I'll stay with manual off for turn sigs.  Thanks for the input

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Motobricker

Bill glad you got out!  I know the weather over on that side of mountains has not been best for riding.  I added grip puppies over the stock grips and love them, heated grips still come through no sweat.  I only use Dynamic ride mode or rain, never been in Road, not enough poo for me!! Mr. Ed's moto for the seat, the stocker is a real pain!  Turn signals take FOREVER to turn off, I usually end up hitting the button again to turn them off in town.  I am not sure about turnsignals as running lights, I added twisted throttle lights to the brake caliper, and Hexcan to power them, Actually Don Weber at Mr. Ed's did it for me.  I think they are great, I got the lowest price DM models as I don't ride at night very often.  They flash after you hit the passing lamp switch 5 times, and they get drivers attention!!  I have 8500 miles on Z8's and the front is badly cupped the rear is squaring off.  I think I will get 9K out of the set then run PR4GT's unless the PR5's come out in GT.

 

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Somewhere I heard that turn signals cancel after 10 seconds or 300 meters whichever comes first. I think it's more like 15 seconds but whatever. I've ceased to think of them as self-canceling, more like idiot-resistant because it generally takes way to long for them to turn themselves off, IMO. At least I'll never be that fool riding down the road all afternoon with my turn signal on.

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Re:  

QUESTIONS:

1--Does this RT  have automatic turn signal cancellation?  Or does the machine need to go down the road a long while after turning before it cancels ? 

 

I continue to be surprised by simple questions like this. Does anybody ever read their owner's manual?

 

For my Canadian-spec '14 R1200RT, p.58 of the owner's manual states:

 

 Heading:  Turn indicators

 

Sub-head:  Turn indicators cancellation

 

"The turn indicators are cancelled automatically after the defined time and distance.

-min 10s (I interpret that means when a minimum of 10 seconds has elapsed)

-min 300 m" (I interpret that means when the bike has travelled a minimum 300 metres)

 

Logically, that would means (to me) the turn signals cancel automatically after 10 seconds or after the bike has travelled 300 metres, whichever comes first.

 

C'mon guys, read your owner's manuals.

 

Tim

 

 

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Nice looking ride.  I am sure you will find the RT a worthy successor to the ST.

 

 On the power modes, if I'm not mistaken, Normal and Dynamic have the same throttle sensitivity and power delivery, but when in Dynamic the computer will make suspension damping adjustments based on a number of inputs including your right hand.  Once I got used to the throttle sensitivity, I put my RT into Dynamic mode and now almost never change out of that.  I figured I paid for the ponies so I might as well use them.   Gritty-Up !

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6 hours ago, T-88 said:

Re:  

QUESTIONS:

1--Does this RT  have automatic turn signal cancellation?  Or does the machine need to go down the road a long while after turning before it cancels ? 

 

I continue to be surprised by simple questions like this. Does anybody ever read their owner's manual?

 

For my Canadian-spec '14 R1200RT, p.58 of the owner's manual states:

 

 Heading:  Turn indicators

 

Sub-head:  Turn indicators cancellation

 

"The turn indicators are cancelled automatically after the defined time and distance.

-min 10s (I interpret that means when a minimum of 10 seconds has elapsed)

-min 300 m" (I interpret that means when the bike has travelled a minimum 300 metres)

 

Logically, that would means (to me) the turn signals cancel automatically after 10 seconds or after the bike has travelled 300 metres, whichever comes first.

 

C'mon guys, read your owner's manuals.

 

Tim

 

 

My 2018 manual prints the generalized statement, "The turn indicators are cancelled automatically after the defined time and distance."  They do not follow by defining time or distance.  Which means, of course, time and distance remain undefined.

 

Next time I'll try the 10-second information from your older manual.  Information which they no longer print.

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14 hours ago, T-88 said:

 

Logically, that would means (to me) the turn signals cancel automatically after 10 seconds or after the bike has travelled 300 metres, whichever comes first  last.

 

Waiting to turn at a red light, you want the signal to remain on until the light turns green and you've completed the turn, so 10 seconds would be too short of a time and cancellation takes place after 300 meters.  Signalling for a freeway exit or lane change, 300 metres would be too short a distance, so cancellation takes place after 10 seconds.

 

It's difficult for the bike to know when a direction change has been completed. Unlike a car, where the the spinning steering shaft can trigger the indicator switch, the fork movements are not a good indication of direction. You don't want cancellation if you waggle the bars a bit to balance in slow moving traffic, and lane changes require so little motion that I've never seen it. Actually, most cars will not cancel after a lane change. Maybe some newer bikes with an inertia or lean angle sensor could determine when a turn has been completed, but even that is not reliable as actual turns are often preceded by curves.

 

I think that the BMW signal cancellers were intended only as fail-safe to keep the absent-minded from riding for miles with a forgotten blinker lit, not to cancel on the completion of a turn. The 10s, 300m limits are intentionally set "too long" so that the signals do not cancel prematurely. 

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Afternoon Bend Bill/ Larry

 

BMW doesn’t seem to define the newer 1200RT  time or distance (I don’t know the reason but a guess on my part is due to the ability of the dealer to change the time & distance therefore on changed (re-programmed) bikes the riders manual could be incorrect if it gave a defined time/distance).

 

If we default back to the older  1200RT manuals they do define the time/distance  (as they came set from the factory) & that was ---

 

"The turn indicators are cancelled automatically after you have ridden for approximately 10 seconds, or covered a distance of about 200 m"  (some now say 300 meters I think)

 

That is an 'AFTER  / 'OR'  situation so it would be the one that came first. 'Always' after 10 seconds but at 200 meters IF that came before the 10 seconds.

 

Per Larry’s note of  “Waiting to turn at a red light, you want the signal to remain on until the light turns green and you've completed the turn, so 10 seconds would be too short of a time and cancellation takes place after 300 meters" --THAT, is a 'big' issue (especially for me personally). BMW did t-r-y to address this by adding a brake-input  function to turn the 10 second timer off while sitting still with the brakes on (the 10 seconds didn't start again until the brakes were released).

 

This worked for some (probably most) riders as most use the brakes at a stop waiting to make a turn (I don't do that a lot of the time if in a line of traffic waiting to turn  as I kind of creep along at just above 0 mph with no (or just occasional brake apply). So some times my signals would cancel just as I entered the turn (due to the no-brake-apply  +  the 10 second clock time-out).

 

This would confuse  other drivers as they thought I had changed my mind on turning so they would do something unexpected & invade my space.

 

I also had problems with freeway exits as I ride pretty fast so 200 meters was covered in a nano-second so they would cancel well before the exit ramp.

 

Same with filtering,  as that usually doesn't involve any (or much) braking so the signals will time out pretty fast in filtering situations.

 

I guess it doesn't matter why but I just couldn't get along with the factory turn signal time/distance settings.

 

In any case,  increasing the time & distance setting  has  moved (increased)  both time & distance enough that I don't currently have many issues. On my GS-A  & 800GS I was able to turn the automatic cancel completely off. 

 

Personally, I would like to see a distance ONLY setting (no time involved)  as the distance could be set for 2500 (+/-)  feet as a fail safe in case the rider forgot to manually cancel but that wouldn't interfere with normal riding turn signal functions.  

 

 

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Each turn you make is different in length and time to complete.  Before you say what do you mean different?  You need to signal earlier if you have a turn lane and even longer signal is needed for a left turn, we can all add other examples. I personal cancel the signal at the appropriate time unless I forget and then I'm saved by self canceling.  I agree with Larry it's a safety feature rather then a convenience. 

 

Jay

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43 minutes ago, strataj said:

Each turn you make is different in length and time to complete.  Before you say what do you mean different?  You need to signal earlier if you have a turn lane and even longer signal is needed for a left turn, we can all add other examples. I personal cancel the signal at the appropriate time unless I forget and then I'm saved by self canceling.  I agree with Larry it's a safety feature rather then a convenience. 

 

Jay 

 

 

Afternoon  Jay

 

The problem is;  if a rider signals earlier, then  exceeds the T/S timeout  period  without using the brakes, they won't have any turn signal indicator when the actually reach the turn (that is not a safety feature). 

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13 hours ago, BendBill said:

My 2018 manual prints the generalized statement, "The turn indicators are cancelled automatically after the defined time and distance."  They do not follow by defining time or distance.  Which means, of course, time and distance remain undefined.

 

Next time I'll try the 10-second information from your older manual.  Information which they no longer print.

BendBill,

 

My apologies for suggesting you read your manual.  You are indeed correct, the new(er) R1200RT owners manuals have dropped reference to the turn signals automatically turning off after 10 seconds or the bike having travelled 300 metres as stated in my 2014 RT manual. So the info is not in your manual as it is in mine.

 

I had no idea BMW would edit the manual and cut out useful information for the 2018 model which is essentially the same bike as my older 2014 version.  

 

Please enjoy many happy miles on your new RT.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

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55 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Afternoon  Jay

 

The problem is;  if a rider signals earlier, then  exceeds the T/S timeout  period  without using the brakes, they won't have any turn signal indicator when the actually reach the turn (that is not a safety feature). 

Hi D.R.

 

I agree, but I see it as a trade off.  For me leaving it on is more of my issue then turning a signal on too early.  Before I got my 14R1200RT I had an 02R1150RT a good riding buddy would tap two fingers together to make me aware I hadn't canceled the dame thing.  I'm not sure there is a good answer to this.

 

Jay

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Just forget that the bike has self cancelling turn signals. Turn them on and off as required. Then when you forget to turn them off, know that they eventually do go off. Good enough. 

 

I just don't know how you could make these foolproof on a motorcycle. The chance of them being on for longer than needed is probably better than them turning off before the expected turn is complete. The timing seems to be ok for that. 

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After the info you all have posted, I'll use auto-cancel as a backup only and not try to fidget or have the dealer reset it.  It's a minor issue, after all.  Thanks for the explanations on variables

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On 3/25/2019 at 6:48 PM, BendBill said:

 

2—Has anyone replaced the grips? I miss the old BMW grips. 

 

 

 

 

So, the answer is YES.

I have tried the grip puppies -Way too fat for me.

 

I have a brilliant solution though.

I have fitted these grips over the top of my OEM grips and the diameter is perfect (the same diameter as my old 1150 RT)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RENTHAL-ROAD-RACE-HANDLEBAR-GRIPS-MEDIUM-FITS-BMW-S1000RR-2010-2012/121650556814?epid=1404156847&hash=item1c52f02f8e:g:Aw8AAOSwgkRVU1ak

 

The only drawback is that you have to buy 2 pairs because you only fit the throttle side one (because it has a larger diameter bore).

Fitting is simply trim off the internal flange of the new grip. Apply a goodly amount of washing up liquid to the outside of the OEM grip. then, using warm water as the lubricant, slide the new grip straight over the OEM grip (including the bar end weight). Job done' Looks and feels great.

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I don't like any of the foam grip covers. Tried 3 types. Numb feeling, get wet, wear out. I too liked the old Oilhead grips. I found these   http://www.excelcyclewerkes.com/index_files/Page1340.htm   Excel grips and have them on both bikes. Heated grips work just fine with them. No squishy feeling. Don't get any wetter than the grips would and have better "stick" than the grips wet or dry. The larger diameter feels much better to me. 

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Hi Terry, these look like a solution (indeed better than the foam offerings, but the Renthal medium grip is a tidier solution and will collect less grime. Ultimately leading to the target objective - a diameter that is around the same as that of the Oilhead grip.

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These don't collect grime. I guess it washes off when the bike gets washed. The o-rings are tight against each other. 

 

I didn't want to remove the stock grips. These go right over them. No worries about them twisting around. Take them off if you don't like them!

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15 hours ago, realshelby said:

I didn't want to remove the stock grips. These go right over them. No worries about them twisting around. Take them off if you don't like them!

 

Same with the Renthals. They go OVER the OEM grips, so no removal of old grips, no twisting, just warm, lube and slide!

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  • 3 years later...
garysciascia

I have a 2021 RT.  I asked the dealer to set the self cancelling turn signals to the shortest time and/or distance possible. 500 meters (essentially a quarter mile) after the IMU senses the lean from your turn, which can be at least 15 seconds if you are moving fairly quickly, for the signals to self cancel. Useless. Every electronic feature of this bike is so great except for a feature that has been around for many years. hopefully an update will correct this currently useless feature.

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Geekmaster
22 hours ago, garysciascia said:

I have a 2021 RT.  I asked the dealer to set the self cancelling turn signals to the shortest time and/or distance possible. 500 meters (essentially a quarter mile) after the IMU senses the lean from your turn, which can be at least 15 seconds if you are moving fairly quickly, for the signals to self cancel. Useless. Every electronic feature of this bike is so great except for a feature that has been around for many years. hopefully an update will correct this currently useless feature.

 

FYI, if you have MotoScan or GS-911 you can change the turn signal cancel parameters yourself.

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Randyjaco

I don't understand the problems with the self cancelling turn signals. They run for the 10-15 seconds. If it's not enough time I just punch them again. As for the timing, if I stop for a stop sign or a light, they continue flashing until I start moving again. Seems like a pretty good set up to me. I don't want to be the guy with his signal on for the next 5 miles :4607:(I ride a 17RT)

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Rainman48
17 hours ago, Geekmaster said:

 

FYI, if you have MotoScan or GS-911 you can change the turn signal cancel parameters yourself.

I just checked the Hex GS-911 web site on their function page and I don't see where either your current year or the OP's current year have any way to change the turn signal parameters.  Test them?  Yes.  Change them? No  Can you provide any proof this is possible?  I don't know about the Motoscan app, but if Hex hasn't done it I doubt Motoscan can either.

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wbw6cos

You could always email them to confirm, but there is a little discussion about it here.  There are some older threads about future possibilities, but the people who market the device would be the ones to ask.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 3/27/2019 at 9:07 AM, MikeB60 said:

Bill, Beautiful bike!  IMHO BMW hasn't figured out the self canceling turn signal, or bluetooth for that matter. Both systems are clunky on every BMW I have owned.  They need to reverse engineer the Harley system, it works perfectly.  I just shut them off manually.

Mike, Bill:  

 

I can tell you that turn signal cancelling is improved on the '22 GSA over my '17 RT.   I think it actually senses your turn now.

 

Another improvement I've noticed is that ShiftAssist is a lot less fussy on the new bike.  It gives smooth shifts in more situations that the '17.  

 

Yet another is the shifts themselves. The new bikes...and I think this is new for '22 model year boxers and up, shift a lot more like a Japanese sport bike...very smooth and easy with not so much noise.  If you pre-load the shifter, which I've done for 4 RTs, it shifts before you pull in the clutch!  This takes some getting used to.  Don't bump that lever...It's touchy.  

 

 

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