BMW Bikes are no good

[SWB]

...and WE'RE the one's who have to bear your slings and arrows . I think your anger is misplaced. Your post is such a perfect example of someone who deserves scorn that I'm halfway convinced you're just trolling.

 

I doubt it .. he's probably just a bit thin skinned. Some folks confuse friendly banter with an argumentative attitude. If the guy had hung around and read a few more forum threads, he'd have seen how "old school" this forum really is. That's unfortunate; his loss, and to a lessor extent, also ours.

[steveknapp]

Well sure. They're doing a better job at providing the American Consumer with what they want. Since when does that make something "High end"?

 

I guess it depends on the standard. The cost and consumer base are what I had in mind. Toyota falls in the same catagory for me. There are a lot of people who could afford whatever they want, they drive a Toyota.

 

The part that many I've known are finding frustrating is that quality as a whole is up. You can buy a Camry, an Accord, maybe even an Impala, all mass-market. The quality is there. No weird trips to the dealer, no quirks. Just solid cars.

 

Now you walk over to the German prestige brands. Brands that founded their reputation as being better engineered, better performing, and better built. You're not getting those attributes anymore. And for many, those qualities are why they stepped up to the prestige brand.

 

I'm not saying that buying into a reputation is the right way to shop. And some marketing type can tell you more about brand image than I can. But if these trends continue I wonder what the future will bring.

 

At least BMW motorcycles seems to have turned around with the K and the Hexhead.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Toyota, but you can't honestly put them in the same league as the big dogs like Porsche, BMW, Jaguar, etc, can you?

 

In what regard? Performance? Prestige? Quality? Customer satisfaction?

 

Porsche is in it's own league. And comparing it on the same plane to BMW motorcycles, at least the boxers, is just not right.

 

Jaguar? Other than the nice smell from the inside, I just never got the draw. Too many problems. And oddly enough the US influence has brought quality.

 

BMW cars, ya, on par with Lexus for the most part until you start talking M. Otherwise it's a hard sell between the 3-series and the IS. I'd likley buy Lexus simply because any slight performance advantage the BMW has isn't going to show up on the street.

 

Two friends one bought an IS300, the other a BMW 330Ci. One ripped the rear deck apart trying to fix a bad rattle the dealer "didn't hear." The other got a recall to replace the cruise switch, turned out the grease used may have caused the plastic to fail after excessive use. Guess who was who?

[Turbosneeze]

Wow!!! Reading all the responses got me thinking about my BMWs. Then I went out for a ride and now... I just want to go and get right back on it... see ya Happy Motoring!

[TVdawg]

Barking Dog,

 

If you're still reading the thread then you can take some comfort in knowing that I too had a surging RT. The more miles I put on the bike the smoother it runs. Now with around 28K it is no longer an issue.

 

With proper time and a good tune the surging will go away. Sure there will be certain RPM's in certain gear ranges that you will notice the surge. When it does this, it's like a race horse telling you it wants to go. Just shift up to the next gear and have fun.

 

Remember too that sometimes the more you dwell on an annoyance, the more annoying it becomes.

[Blue Beemer Dude]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Toyota, but you can't honestly put them in the same league as the big dogs like Porsche, BMW, Jaguar, etc, can you?

 

Again, it depends on your definition of "big dog". I've owned all of these. Porsche is on its own, no real competitor, but my God they are expensive to buy, maintain and own (depreciation). If you go the track on weekends, you can't beat it for out-of-the-box enjoyment. But it is saddled with German electronics. Go on a Porsche bbs and do a search on RMS (rear main seal) leaks. I'll take a surge over an RMS failure most any day.

 

BMW cars, I've had eleven. PITA they are, it's a love/hate relationship. With the new styling and increased dependence on electro-gizmos, their notorious cooling systems and weak front-ends and high prices, I no longer shop BMWs cars.

 

Jaguar... I've had two, one pre-Ford, one current-Ford. Without a doubt, the pre-Ford was an ugodly homogenization of crap, the most unreliable and undependable piece of over-engineered garbage I have ever had the displeasure of owning. But the leather and wood were beautiful. The last one, a 2002 XJ8, was Ford engineered, which meant that it was mostly reliable, had some cheap mass-production influenced parts, the quality of the leather and wood was not up to par with the older cars, but the old stigma still holds true on Jaguars and they depreciate like stones.

 

Toyota/Lexus makes a great car, they have fantastic dealer service, good resale and a sterling reputation. This is why they will shortly surpass GM in sales in the USA. I'm on my second Infiniti (Nissan) and my first one had only one problem in 3 years of ownership, and that was a slight rattle in the steering column. I'd say that the BMW has an edge over the Lexus in the driving feel category, but recently both Car & Driver and Road & Track ranked the Infiniti #1 over the Bimmer, Lexus, Mercedes E, Jag, etc. And those guys rank the driving feel very highly.

 

OK, so what was the point? Oh yeah. My RT surges. My LT does not. I didn't know this when I bought my first RT and I was upset. I was fully informed when I bought my second one (the '04) and with proper tuning I can live with it.

 

If I could fit better on the Honda and it looked a little better, and if it had ABS (back when I was looking) I would have bought one of those.

 

The only reason I bought the LT over the GW was that the massive depreciation on the LT allowed me to buy this used one much cheaper than any '02 GW would have been.

 

So yes, I love my BMWs but I realize their limitations and I won't hesitate to jump ship when something better comes along.

 

Michael

[russell_bynum]

it's a love/hate relationship

 

That was exactly my point.

 

With the Toyota, it is just a car. It's reliable, has decent performance, etc...but no soul at all.

 

Same with bikes. What's better, a GSXR1000, or a 999? Race results say that the Gixxer is the better bike. And it'll certainly cost you less to maintain. And there's Suzuki dealers all over the place. But the 999 has soul. For people who appreciate that, they'll put up with the pain of owning a Ducati.

 

That's all I was saying.

[George]

I have had R1100RT, R1150RT, and now own a R1200RT, so I think they are great bikes

[steveknapp]

"Soul" does not have to equal poor quality. Last I heard Duc's weren't that much of a pain to own BTW.

 

The other part is that "soul" is a very personal thing. "But the 999 has soul. For people who appreciate that"... I'd love to understand how much brand image and perception fall into that. Basically do a blind taste test of the bikes.

[russell_bynum]

"Soul" does not have to equal poor quality. Last I heard Duc's weren't that much of a pain to own BTW.

 

Ask Spike about that.

 

And even an absultely perfect, no-flaws Ducati is still going to be a PIA to maintain compared to a Japanese bike.

 

 

The other part is that "soul" is a very personal thing. "But the 999 has soul. For people who appreciate that"... I'd love to understand how much brand image and perception fall into that. Basically do a blind taste test of the bikes.

 

Yeah, I agree there. I don't know what defines it. I just know that when I ride in a Lexus, I'm thinking "This is a nice Toyota." and when I ride in a BMW I'm thinking "Wow."

 

Hmm...I wonder if maybe those flaws are what makes the soul and character?

[Paul Mihalka]

Character is flaws you can live with. It applies equally to cars, motorcycles, and persons

[steveknapp]

Yeah, I agree there. I don't know what defines it. I just know that when I ride in a Lexus, I'm thinking "This is a nice Toyota." and when I ride in a BMW I'm thinking "Wow."

 

But if my elf'in magic we could swap the IS300 for the 330Ci. So the public thought one was a BMW the other the Lexus...how would people perceive them? I've not driven the GS, but the IS was a blast.

 

Which somewhat comes full circle to what started some of this. People who know only the BMW brand expect as part of the brand, as part of the "soul" of the bike a "flawless" drivetrain. You think that's unreasonable. But still it's the expectation many have with the brand.