Live and Learn ... Odyssey Battery

[Kirkus]

I purchased my used BMW last fall, after getting it home I plugged a Battery Tender in the pigtail and put the cover on the bike.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I try to start the bike, …. Nothing. So I remove the side panels to get access to the battery terminals and put a tester on …. No reading, errr!

Remove battery to discover it’s an Odyssey PC680 and marked with 2017, hmmm not that old should be able to take and hold a charge. We did have a few weeks where temps were -10, maybe that killed it. So, after doing some research, I find out that AGM batteries in general don’t like long periods of inactivity and Odyssey batteries don’t play nice with all chargers. So, I check and see what is recommended by Odyssey (Odyssey Ultimizer), shop around locally and no one carries it or it’s out of stock. Quick web search locates a VW Shop (SoCal Auto Parts) in Long Beach, CA that stocks them, placed my order on Saturday and the package was on porch when I got home from work yesterday. Plug it in and it shows charging …good sign. Check it this morning and it shows Fully Charged!  Grab my key and turn it on …. Vrooom!

Starts right up. Looks like I’ll be doing the oil change and rear drive lube and going for a ride this weekend. Carry On!

[Lowndes]

Kirkus,

 

Looks like you have had a very similar experience to mine several years ago.  The AGM batteries need 14.5-.7 volts to get to a full charge.  Regular old lead-acid batteries only need 13.5 v.  Not being fully charged will lead to sulfation and early death for the batt.  Also, the Motorad ECU really likes a fully charged battery.

 

AGM battery info

 

I got a BatteryMINDER (different from the BatteryTinder brand) rated for AGM, BatteryMINDer Model 2012-AGM on  Amazon, $95.  The desulfation cycle is for real.  It has brought two AGM batteries back to life for me.

 

The next thing you might want to address is the voltage regulator in your bike's alternator.  It needs to get bumped up to 14.5v also.  EME has them ($39) and it's not a hard job, just fiddly, but plug and play.  EME voltage reg for R bikes  

 

I have a writeup somewhere here about replacing the voltage reg WITHOUT removing the alternator, belt, etc. on a '99 R1100S.  Have since done this on my '99 R1100RT, also.  While you're there, you should replace the ignition sensor wiring harness, a well known problem on these bikes.

[Kirkus]

Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into this.

[lkraus]

On 3/21/2019 at 7:46 AM, Kirkus said:

.....So, after doing some research, I find out that AGM batteries in general don’t like long periods of inactivity and Odyssey batteries don’t play nice with all chargers. ...

Actually, AGM is better than lead-acid for retaining a charge when unused.  From the link Lowndes posted above, AGM Battery Info - " While regular lead acid batteries need a topping charge every six months to prevent the buildup of sulfation, AGM batteries are less prone to this and can sit in storage for longer before a charge becomes necessary."   Disconnected (to prevent drainage by the clock, etc.) an AGM will retain a good charge for several months. 

 

There is a lot of support information on the Odyssey web site. When I bought my PC680, I was disappointed to see that my six-month-old Optimate 4 did not quite provide the Odyssey recommended charging method, as shown in their Technical Manual.    

 

The Optimate charges at a maximum of 14.4V, unless it is in a desulphate or deep-discharge recovery mode.  But I found that my '70s Schumacher automotive charger does provide a 14.7V selection.  So I periodically connect the Schumacher for a day to get a "full" charge. If the bike will then be unused for a while, I'll connect the Optimate (at 13.6V) to maintain the charge without disconnecting the battery.  The PC680 is still going strong eight years later.

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, lkraus said:

Actually, AGM is better than lead-acid for retaining a charge when unused.  From the link Lowndes posted above, AGM Battery Info - " While regular lead acid batteries need a topping charge every six months to prevent the buildup of sulfation, AGM batteries are less prone to this and can sit in storage for longer before a charge becomes necessary."   Disconnected (to prevent drainage by the clock, etc.) an AGM will retain a good charge for several months.  

 

 

 

 

Morning Larry

 

What you say is true but what is quoted is poorly written.

 

 

[lkraus]

  Yeah, should have read the quote more closely.  I've seen lead-acid sulfation after three months. I've never let an AGM set more than six weeks without a charge and did not want to set a specific "safe" time frame. 

[6speedTi]

Found this information from odyssey battery technical support. 

I gather it applies to odyssey batteries. I'm not sure if other brand AGM batteries have the same requirements. It looks like my Battery Tender doesn't meet the requirements. 

 

 

 

Your maintainer charger would be acceptable provided it floats between 13.5-13.8V at the battery and never exceeds 15.0V at any time during the charging process such as in a reconditioning/de-sulfation/equalize mode. If it does not meet these requirements it would not be recommended for use with any ODYSSEY battery. Any maintainer being used that floats at less than 13.5V will cause sulfation, reduced capacity and premature failure (usually within 1-2 years) due to failure to take a charge or maintain a charge. 

There is a link to the list of ODYSSEY approved chargers located on the ODYSSEY website FAQ page for your reference. One of the primary non-warranty causes of premature failure is consistently undercharging or maintaining the batter in an undercharged condition which causes sulfation, decreased capacity, and eventually failure to take or maintain a charge. Exceeding 15.0V causes overheating, overcharging, and can eventually cause thermal runaway. 

Thank you for your inquiry. Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

Kathy Mitchell
ODYSSEY Sales Coordinator
Phone: 660-429-7551
Toll Free: 888-422-0317
Fax: 660-429-1758
Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com
Web site: www.odysseybattery.com
Corp site: www.enersys.com

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, 6speedTi said:

Found this information from odyssey battery technical support. 

I gather it applies to odyssey batteries. I'm not sure if other brand AGM batteries have the same requirements. It looks like my Battery Tender doesn't meet the requirements. 

 

 

 

Your maintainer charger would be acceptable provided it floats between 13.5-13.8V at the battery and never exceeds 15.0V at any time during the charging process such as in a reconditioning/de-sulfation/equalize mode. If it does not meet these requirements it would not be recommended for use with any ODYSSEY battery. Any maintainer being used that floats at less than 13.5V will cause sulfation, reduced capacity and premature failure (usually within 1-2 years) due to failure to take a charge or maintain a charge. 

There is a link to the list of ODYSSEY approved chargers located on the ODYSSEY website FAQ page for your reference. One of the primary non-warranty causes of premature failure is consistently undercharging or maintaining the batter in an undercharged condition which causes sulfation, decreased capacity, and eventually failure to take or maintain a charge. Exceeding 15.0V causes overheating, overcharging, and can eventually cause thermal runaway. 

Thank you for your inquiry. Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

Kathy Mitchell
ODYSSEY Sales Coordinator
Phone: 660-429-7551
Toll Free: 888-422-0317
Fax: 660-429-1758
Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com
Web site: www.odysseybattery.com
Corp site: www.enersys.com

 

Morning 6speedTi

 

You really need to check with the manufacturer or supplier of YOUR AGM battery. Not all AGM batteries require the higher charging voltage or the specific current input phases that the Odyssey does.

 

The good news is: the battery chargers that I am familiar with that are on the Odyssey approved list (I'm not familiar with all though) all have other charging settings that will fit most other AGM batteries as well as GEL batteries, & even conventional lead acid batteries. Most also have a cold weather setting  (snowflake setting) as that increase the charge to make up for the higher voltage charging requirements of a very cold battery.   

 

You might also check the specs (or call the company) on your current charger to see  if it says it is rated for, or 'OK for'  use on,  AGM batteries. You present charger might be OK for use on a regular AGM battery in normal (warmish) weather but not rated with enough voltage output or current output requirements for the Odyssey (especially in cold charging conditions).  

 

The Odyssey is a bit of an outlier when it comes to specific charging requirements.    

 

 

[6speedTi]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning 6speedTi

 

You really need to check with the manufacturer or supplier of YOUR AGM battery. Not all AGM batteries require the higher charging voltage or the specific current input phases that the Odyssey does.

 

The good news is: the battery chargers that I am familiar with that are on the Odyssey approved list (I'm not familiar with all though) all have other charging settings that will fit most other AGM batteries as well as GEL batteries, & even conventional lead acid batteries. Most also have a cold weather setting  (snowflake setting) as that increase the charge to make up for the higher voltage charging requirements of a very cold battery.   

 

You might also check the specs (or call the company) on your current charger to see  if it says it is rated for, or 'OK for'  use on,  AGM batteries. You present charger might be OK for use on a regular AGM battery in normal (warmish) weather but not rated with enough voltage output or current output requirements for the Odyssey (especially in cold charging conditions).  

 

The Odyssey is a bit of an outlier when it comes to specific charging requirements.   

 

 

I have a odyssey pc680 and use a battery tender plus which is not on the list. I charged my battery on the bench until it went into a float mode. The float voltage was 12.8 volts or in that close range but below what odyssey recommends. I did a ocv voltage check and according to the odyssey specs I'm at about 83% capacity. This battery has been in service for only 3 1/2 years. I did a CCA load test. It passed well above the minimum 9.6 volts. I went even further and cranked a load test 70% of CCA for 20 seconds and still passed well above the 9.6 volts. So yes you are correct that odyssey batteries are an outlier. Maybe their OCV voltage specs need to be reevaluated. Both CCA load tests were done after the battery voltage settled about 3 hours or so. Just when you think you figured out battery technology you get a curve ball manufacturer with their own pitch. LOL...

 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, 6speedTi said:

I have a odyssey pc680 and use a battery tender plus which is not on the list. I charged my battery on the bench until it went into a float mode. The float voltage was 12.8 volts or in that close range but below what odyssey recommends. I did a ocv voltage check and according to the odyssey specs I'm at about 83% capacity. This battery has been in service for only 3 1/2 years. I did a CCA load test. It passed well above the minimum 9.6 volts. I went even further and cranked a load test 70% of CCA for 20 seconds and still passed well above the 9.6 volts. So yes you are correct that odyssey batteries are an outlier. Maybe their OCV voltage specs need to be reevaluated. Both CCA load tests were done after the battery voltage settled about 3 hours or so. Just when you think you figured out battery technology you get a curve ball manufacturer with their own pitch. LOL...

 

 

Morning 6speedTi

 

The Open Circuit Voltage given for the Odyssey is usually pretty close on a new battery charged with a correct (approved) charger in warm weather.

 

The BMW 1100 & 1150 alternator voltage output is not  high enough to run the Odyssey to 100% charge (unless the voltage regulator is replaced with a higher output one or a diode modification is made).

 

The BMW 1200 bikes with a higher voltage output (I don't know about the WC bikes though) will get the Odyssey closer to 100% charge but still slightly short of 100%.

 

Also, most non-approved small battery chargers do not have enough voltage output, or proper current absorption cycles, to bring the Odyssey to 100%. If the charger has a 'snowflake' setting (cold battery setting) then it might get close on the charge state.

 

That is the bad news,

 

The good news is, as you noted in your tests  above, that the Odyssey even at a charge state of well below 100% is still a potent output battery & has a lot of reserve power with great recovery.

 

The downside is that the Odyssey is right on the edge of becoming sulfated when continually charged to under 100% but this is livable for most everyday riders as the motorcycle alternator gives the Odyssey a pretty hefty amp hit after starting even though the voltage is on the low side.

 

From what I have seen in the past the Odyssey can even be occasionally charged with a non-approved, lower voltage, lower current, charger as long as it isn't done continually or allowed to go into the float stage & stay there long term.

 

But even if the Odyssey is somewhat sulfated, or continually partially charged therefore losing it's full capacity,  the Odyssey can usually be recovered by using the Odyssey recovery procedure with a proper (re approved) charger & run-down procedure. (if you have an Odyssey battery & suspect sulfation, or lower performance, then EnergySys  (Odyssey) has a recovery procedure on their web site). If the Odyssey hasn't been sulfated long term or allowed to sit in a very low, or dead, state then the recovery process can work pretty good.

 

The big killer of the Odyssey  (at least from what I have seen in my limited experience) is using an incorrect charger with a de-sulftion cycle that could easily get to well over 15 volts. 

 

I use  Odyssey battery's in a number of my own motorcycles & small equipment & they do very well (extremely well) in everyday used vehicles or other often-used equipment plus they do pretty good in things like my generator  as that has no continuous  parasitic  drain.

 

They also do good if fully charged (with a proper charger) then disconnected  & allowed to sit as they have a very low internal self-discharge rate.

 

They don't do nearly as good if left connected in a parasitic draw situation without using a proper (approved) charger as most non-approved chargers just don't have a high enough float output to keep them above 75%-80% charge & THAT can lead to sulfation.  This is even more critical if the vehicle has a parasitic drain AND is stored in a cold environment as a non approved charger might not even get it to, or maintain, a  75% charge  in the cold.  

 

    

 

 

[6speedTi]

Good information attached for Odyssey batteries. Even though the charger I use (C-Tek 7002) is an approved charger for charging the Odyssey battery it does not meet the requirements for desulfation or reconditioning of a Odyssey battery since the C-Tek voltage exceeds 15 volts. So it is highly recommended that one follows the manufacturers recommendations of the battery they have and apply that to the specific charger they are using even if it's on the approved list for Odyssey batteries. I hope this information is helpful to others as I have found to be. 

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, 6speedTi said:

Good information attached for Odyssey batteries. Even though the charger I use (C-Tek 7002) is an approved charger for charging the Odyssey battery it does not meet the requirements for desulfation or reconditioning of a Odyssey battery since the C-Tek voltage exceeds 15 volts. So it is highly recommended that one follows the manufacturers recommendations of the battery they have and apply that to the specific charger they are using even if it's on the approved list for Odyssey batteries. I hope this information is helpful to others as I have found to be. 

 

Morning 6speedTi

 

Actually the (C-Tek 7002) should recondition an Odyssey pc 680 without any problems. The (C-Tek 7002) easily meets the 40% of the 10 hour capacity pc 680 amp requirement as on the pc 680 that is 6.4 amps C-Tek 7002 output is up to 7 amps. 

 

It also meets the 14.7 volt requirement on the snowflake setting.  

 

You just can't use the dedicated  desulfation  cycle as that does exceed the 15 volt threshold. (built in desulfation cycle is mainly for the old lead-acid batteries anyway).   

 

I (personally) have 2  C-Tek 7002 chargers & they  will both  easily recondition a pc 680 that won't hold a full charge.

 

 

[6speedTi]

17 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning 6speedTi

 

Actually the (C-Tek 7002) should recondition an Odyssey pc 680 without any problems. The (C-Tek 7002) easily meets the 40% of the 10 hour capacity pc 680 amp requirement as on the pc 680 that is 6.4 amps C-Tek 7002 output is up to 7 amps. 

 

It also meets the 14.7 volt requirement on the snowflake setting.  

 

You just can't use the dedicated  desulfation  cycle as that does exceed the 15 volt threshold. (built in desulfation cycle is mainly for the old lead-acid batteries anyway).   

 

I (personally) have 2  C-Tek 7002 chargers & they  will both  easily recondition a pc 680 that won't hold a full charge.

 

 

Thanks for the info, I believe I might have misled one thing. You can recondition on the Snowflake function. It's the discharging of the desulfation cycle that's a issue as you stated. As always thanks for your input and follow ups. Much appreciated. 

[6speedTi]

UPDATE:

After I followed Odyssey Battery procedures for desulfation I recovered at about 93% from the 80% according to their OCV readings. My battery has been in service since September 2015. So I guess losing less than 10% is not bad for the amount of time I've had the battery. Reserve power is very good on this battery even at 80% tested. Desulfation did work for me. My conclusion is the Odyssey battery is not suitable for every application due to its specific voltage requirements to maintain service longevity. 

 

[6speedTi]

Just want to update on this topic.

I did another annual conditioning on my Odyssey PC680 battery. Using their method and the C-TEK 7002 charger my readings are as follows. After battery was disconnected from the charger and sat to allow the surface charge to settle down.

9 hrs   12.87 V

16 hrs 12.86 V

20 hrs 12.85 V

 

FINAL UPDATE. 

32 hrs 12.84 V

Time to hook up the battery to the bike. In my opinion this is an excellent battery. Best AGM I ever had including automobiles. 

 

So according to Odyssey charts my battery is still at 100% capacity. Unbelievable and very satisfied.  My battery is one month shy of being in service for 6 years. All I do is periodically perform a conditioning procedure usually once a year. That's it. Well worth the cost of this battery. I ride often with 92,000 miles on my 2012RT. Happy riding!