Fuel system problem

[magicdave]

The internal 5mm vent pipe went and was leaking fuel, i thought i might as well do everything at once so i ordered the filter etc but when i disconnected the tank sender ground wire (too short) it didn't want to disconnect and started smoking at the connector.

It took a couple of seconds to get it apart but since then the bike won't start.

I've tried running a new earth wire directly from the plate to the battery but it still doesn't work.

The fuses are ok and the wire didn't melt.

Has anyone got any suggestions? I still have the sender/ pump assembly out as i replaced those vent hoses.

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, magicdave said:

The internal 5mm vent pipe went and was leaking fuel, i thought i might as well do everything at once so i ordered the filter etc but when i disconnected the tank sender ground wire (too short) it didn't want to disconnect and started smoking at the connector.

It took a couple of seconds to get it apart but since then the bike won't start.

I've tried running a new earth wire directly from the plate to the battery but it still doesn't work.

The fuses are ok and the wire didn't melt.

Has anyone got any suggestions? I still have the sender/ pump assembly out as i replaced those vent hoses.

 

Afternoon  magicdave

 

Go back & re-read what you wrote above as it isn't making a lot of sense.

 

It definitely won't start with the  pump out of the fuel tank.

 

I'm not sure what caused the smoking as there is no power to the fuel pump connector with the key turned off. (we need more info on what is happening with this) .

 

What ground wire did you disconnect? And where did you disconnect it from? 

[magicdave]

It was running fine, except for the fuel leak.

When i was removing the tank i disconnected the single brown wire which had a bullet connector covered by a plastic block a couple of inches below the bottom of the tank.

The wire goes from the tank sender/ pump to the wiring loom near the front of the bike.

I removed the sender/ pump assembly after i discovered it wouldn't start and replaced the internal vent pipes and filter.

Normally it fires up first time.

[dirtrider]

50 minutes ago, magicdave said:

It was running fine, except for the fuel leak.

When i was removing the tank i disconnected the single brown wire which had a bullet connector covered by a plastic block a couple of inches below the bottom of the tank.

The wire goes from the tank sender/ pump to the wiring loom near the front of the bike.

I removed the sender/ pump assembly after i discovered it wouldn't start and replaced the internal vent pipes and filter.

Normally it fires up first time.

 

 

Evening  magicdave

 

Where was it smoking???

 

That ground wire was added (probably for fuel gauge error correction) but with all that corrosion the fuel pump might not be seeing a good resistance free ground.

 

Is your side stand up (1100 bike), if it's down then it won't start.

 

Otherwise you are going to have to use a volt/ohmmeter &  verify that the pump IS getting 12 v during engine cranking & that  the fuel  pump has a good ground at all times. (pump B+ power is 'Green/White' wire & pump ground is 'Brown' wire)

 

 

Caution: don't run the pump for more than a second or two without it being in fuel or the pump will burn up as the fuel cools & lubricates it.  

[magicdave]

It was running fine, except for the fuel leak.

When i was removing the tank i disconnected the single brown wire which had a bullet connector covered by a plastic block a couple of inches below the bottom of the tank.

The wire goes from the tank sender/ pump to the wiring loom near the front of the bike.

I removed the sender/ pump assembly after i discovered it wouldn't start and replaced the internal vent pipes and filter.

Normally it fires up first time.

[magicdave]

When i disconnected the brown single earth wire it was smoking from inside the connector, i was holding up the tank at the time and the connector was a hard to get at.

An earth wire shouldn't be live, and shouldn't arc, i know that but that's the only thing that happened out of the ordinary.

 

Bike runs fine (but internal vent pipe leaks), i disconnect earth lead to remove tank (arcs/ smokes from inside qd connector), bike turns over but won't run anymore.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, magicdave said:

When i disconnected the brown single earth wire it was smoking from inside the connector, i was holding up the tank at the time and the connector was a hard to get at.

An earth wire shouldn't be live, and shouldn't arc, i know that but that's the only thing that happened out of the ordinary.

 

Bike runs fine (but internal vent pipe leaks), i disconnect earth lead to remove tank (arcs/ smokes from inside qd connector), bike turns over but won't run anymore.

 

Morning   magicdave

 

We still need more information as we are still lacking key information__

 

What bike model & year are you working on??

 

Are you working on a metal fuel tank model??????

 

About all that comes to mind given the limited information furnished is that you somehow managed to set the fuel tank (or a fuel tank metal part)  on the battery (+) post while working on that brown wire. 

 

As  for it not running?-- we will have to work our way through that as you furnish more info, such as measuring resistance between the fuel tank fuel pump (-) stud & the battery (-) post. And tell us if the fuel pump (+) stud is seeing 12 volts for a couple of seconds at key on,  then tell us (if) it stays on (12v)  continually during engine cranking.

 

At the moment I'm not sure if your problem is on the pump circuit low (ground) side, or on the pump circuit high (12v) side  so you are going to have to do a little testing to tell us what you are lacking. Then we can work through it from there.

 

 

[magicdave]

It's a 1995 r1100rs with a plastic tank, i don't have an ohm-meter or anything except a basic toolkit.

I have successfully replaced the clutch 10,000 miles ago but electrics/ electronics flummox me.

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, magicdave said:

It's a 1995 r1100rs with a plastic tank, i don't have an ohm-meter or anything except a basic toolkit.

I have successfully replaced the clutch 10,000 miles ago but electrics/ electronics flummox me.

 

Morning   magicdave

 

Without a volt/ohmmeter & the ability to use it you are working under a BIG disadvantage as it is all a guessing game without the ability to prove out where you do & don't have power or grounding.

 

So, first guess is fuse #6  (6th one in from shifter side of bike). I know you said the fuses are all good but without a meter you are just guessing by visual. So either test fuse # 6 or just replace it so you KNOW it is good.

 

Otherwise this is going to be very difficult over the Internet as we need to know where you have 12v now & where you are lacking 12v now as well as being able to verify proper ground continuity.

 

It's not JUST the fuel pump circuitry that effects that fuel pump but also the Motronic (fueling computer) that effects the fuel pump operation.  

 

At the very least ty to come up with a 12v test light as we can do a lot with that.

 

 

[magicdave]

I can use a bulb and piece of wire.

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, magicdave said:

I can use a bulb and piece of wire.

 

Morning   magicdave

 

Not easily as the bulb will need 2 wires with a probe or something on one wire  & a  clip on the other as you will need 2 hands free to do some of the tests.  You will need to test B+ things to battery ground & other things from battery (+)  to the tested object.

 

Is the side stand in the UP  position ?????????????????

[Jim Moore]

When you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump prime? With the key on and sidestand up, do you have a reading on the fuel gauge in the RID?

 

Also, go buy a digital volt meter. They're $20.

[magicdave]

Yes, the sidestand is up , I'm going to try cleaning up the connections then plugging them in with the pump outside the tank for a moment to see if anything's changed.

All the lights etc are working as before.

[dirtrider]

56 minutes ago, magicdave said:

Yes, the sidestand is up , I'm going to try cleaning up the connections then plugging them in with the pump outside the tank for a moment to see if anything's changed.

All the lights etc are working as before.

 

Afternoon magicdave

 

It looks like Jim wants to work with you on this problem so I will back out & let him take over as there can't be two people advising you as it is complicated enough with just one responder at a time advising.

[nrp]

Only Saints in this world can diagnose electrical problems over Internet.

 

And from the picture, some people must live in a helluva corrosive area.

[magicdave]

I've cleaned off the connections and tried the fuel pump assembly out of the tank and the fuel pump is working, it goes on for about a second when i turn the key.

I don't have a garage and I'm doing things between showers so tomorrow I'll put the tank back on and if it still doesn't go I'll take a plug out and see if it's sparking.

Thanks for the help.

[Jim Moore]

Make sure your throttle cables are seated correctly down on the throttle bodies.