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dan cata

R1200GS not starting after crash

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dan cata

Hi,

I thought I would also post here, besides advrider...

The bike is a r1200, 2007 gs, it had a front crash, the owner changed the ring antenna, kept the old key and motronic. Also changed the dash and main headlight.

When switching on the ignition, the dash lights up. I am able to crank the motor, but the injectors do not squirt fuel and there is no spark.

The key is good, the chip is alive, tested it using a key maker's chip reader.

I was able to verify continuity for the barrel switch, the red wire goes to the battery + and the green on in pin 26.

I need someone to confim that the antenna wires go to 8 43 55 and 57... or any advice that might help :)

 

Dan.

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dirtrider
9 minutes ago, dan cata said:

Hi,

I thought I would also post here, besides advrider...

The bike is a r1200, 2007 gs, it had a front crash, the owner changed the ring antenna, kept the old key and motronic. Also changed the dash and main headlight.

When switching on the ignition, the dash lights up. I am able to crank the motor, but the injectors do not squirt fuel and there is no spark.

The key is good, the chip is alive, tested it using a key maker's chip reader.

I was able to verify continuity for the barrel switch, the red wire goes to the battery + and the green on in pin 26.

I need someone to confim that the antenna wires go to 8 43 55 and 57... or any advice that might help :)

 

Dan.

 

 

Morning Dan

 

Does the new bike still have it's own Fueling computer & ZFE yet ????????

 

The key (chip) is registered to the original computers so even with the swap-over antenna ring it won't allow starting. The antenna ring 'itself' means nothing as ALL it does is allow the computer(s) to read the key pellet. The KEY must be compatible with (registered with) the present computers.  

 

Do you have any dash codes showing (like EWS?).  

 

If you have an EWS showing then the  computers are either  not reading the key chip, OR, the computers 'ARE' reading the chip but are not properly  programed to accept it  & allow engine starting.

 

(if it isn't the key to computer thing) -- then Other things to look for are transmission switch/clutch/side stand switch  problems.

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dan cata

The computer is the same, the key and the computer were not damaged.

What does the FFE stand for? 

I always imagined that the antennas can be swapped between bikes. As it has a donor antenna and the key and computer are the same old paired from the factory... it could mean that the wires are interrupted somewhere...

No dash error as I remember, just that the ABS is not working; should not matter to starting the engine, right?

Dan.

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dirtrider
4 minutes ago, dan cata said:

The computer is the same, the key and the computer were not damaged.

What does the FFE stand for? 

I always imagined that the antennas can be swapped between bikes. As it has a donor antenna and the key and computer are the same old paired from the factory... it could mean that the wires are interrupted somewhere...

No dash error as I remember, just that the ABS is not working; should not matter to starting the engine, right?

Dan.

 

 

Morning Dan 

 

That should read ZFE.

 

Have you checked for fuel flow & fuel pressure???

 

Sometimes in a frontal crash it will break the fuel pump mounting.

 

 

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dan cata

ZFE-Basic

ZFE type: ZFE-Basic
Controller Type: Vehicle Electronics
Part No.: 7711746
Hardware Index: C6
Coding Index: 07
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD): 2004-03-01
MCV: 0.5.9
FSV: 1.3.0
OSV: 3.3.0
Manufacturer: Loewe / Lear
HWOE No.: 61700357
Factory I-Level: K024-07-05-520
Actual I-Level: K024-08-08-550
   Speed sensor manufacturer is Bosch  
   Speed sensor type is DF11  
   DWA fitted  
   Heated grips  
   Outside temperature sensor  
   Rear bulb replacement  
   Film type fuel sensor  
   Manual low beam off switch  
   Storage of temperature indication when engine hot  

 

No fault codes found

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dirtrider
2 minutes ago, dan cata said:

ZFE-Basic

ZFE type: ZFE-Basic
Controller Type: Vehicle Electronics
Part No.: 7711746
Hardware Index: C6
Coding Index: 07
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD): 2004-03-01
MCV: 0.5.9
FSV: 1.3.0
OSV: 3.3.0
Manufacturer: Loewe / Lear
HWOE No.: 61700357
Factory I-Level: K024-07-05-520
Actual I-Level: K024-08-08-550
   Speed sensor manufacturer is Bosch  
   Speed sensor type is DF11  
   DWA fitted  
   Heated grips  
   Outside temperature sensor  
   Rear bulb replacement  
   Film type fuel sensor  
   Manual low beam off switch  
   Storage of temperature indication when engine hot  

 

No fault codes found

Morning DAn

 

That part looks good, see if you can see the side stand switch & trans switch operation.

 

I will be gone for while so can't post back for a few hours.

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dan cata

Will check the functionality using the GS911 and report back...

 

Dan.

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dan cata

Side stand and gearbox switch work as expected, I can see them on the diagnose in all possible states.

The bike does not have the front ABS sensor anymore... Just noticed that today, on the diagnose, when the speed was 300+ km/h, whilst standing...

 

When switching the ignition on, I see the EWS and the DWA with a half full battery icon, on the dash.

 

Took some pics of the gs911 outputs:

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125785

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125776

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125765

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125640

 

Does the ignition angle sound right?

 

Dan.

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dirtrider
37 minutes ago, dan cata said:

Side stand and gearbox switch work as expected, I can see them on the diagnose in all possible states.

The bike does not have the front ABS sensor anymore... Just noticed that today, on the diagnose, when the speed was 300+ km/h, whilst standing...

 

When switching the ignition on, I see the EWS and the DWA with a half full battery icon, on the dash.

 

Took some pics of the gs911 outputs:

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125785

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125776

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125765

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184125640

 

Does the ignition angle sound right?

 

Dan.

 

Afternoon Dan

 

The DWA is the anti-theft system so if you get a lasting warning it probably needs batteries (or something wrong with it like disconnected wire or something not plugged  in) --Depending on what is wrong with it THAT could cause a crank but no-start condition.

 

EWS (that stays on) means the computer isn't reading the key correctly (like wrong key, antenna ring issue, not programmed into computer correctly, etc) -- A key-to-computer reading problem anyhow. (An EWS showing will definitely not allow it to start).

 

I can't open your links on the computer that I am on now so I will look at them later when I get on my non-restricted computer.

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dan cata

Will try and replace the batteries in the alarm unit, see if that changes anything...

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dirtrider
5 hours ago, dan cata said:

Replaced the batteries but no success.

 

Should the wires from the antenna go to this connector? https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6184402860

Or another one underneath? Meaning this one

 

 

 

Dan.

 

Morning Dan

 

Again, I am on a computer that I can't (actually won't) open attachments on, hopefully the below picture will help you out.

 

WSBL= white/blue

GEWS= yellow/white

GEBR= yellow/brown

GNBR= green/brown

 

yco6ZDm.jpg

 

 

 

 

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dan cata

Thanks, will verify it tonight...

 

Dan.

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dan cata

The antenna wires are good, verified them one by one.

The gs911 allows a key test, the key is active and enabled, appears as "key 2" for some reason.

Also... I have seen that the factory and the actual firmware versions are different... k024-04-07-500 vs k024-14-08-500, meaning, that in Aug. 2014, the bike got an firmware update.

I am able to access the injectors, test them, hear them, using the diagnose unit.

 

Just that it won't start...

 

Dan.

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dirtrider
39 minutes ago, dan cata said:

The antenna wires are good, verified them one by one.

The gs911 allows a key test, the key is active and enabled, appears as "key 2" for some reason.

Also... I have seen that the factory and the actual firmware versions are different... k024-04-07-500 vs k024-14-08-500, meaning, that in Aug. 2014, the bike got an firmware update.

I am able to access the injectors, test them, hear them, using the diagnose unit.

 

Just that it won't start...

 

Dan.

 

 

Afternoon Dan

 

Quick thought, use the GS-911 to look at side stand switch operation.

 

Also verify cam sensor & crankshaft sensor operation (probably have to do that manually)

 

Are you still getting the EWS warning on the dash?????????? If it stays on then it definitely won't start until that is identified & repaired.

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dan cata

I have already checked the side stand switch and the gear switch, appear to be working.

For the EWS... I had the antenna unplugged and switched on the ignition. After a while, there was the big font EWS shown on the dash, at all times (because the antenna was unplugged). It all went away after I connected the antenna and cleared the error codes.

 

For the camshaft and crankshaft sensors... is there a resistance value I need to measure when spinning the rear wheel? Does the crankshaft sensor get grud built up on it?

Or how can I verify them? What should I read on the multimeter, and when? (I'm guessing, most likely, it's a matter of what)

 

Dan.

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dirtrider
7 hours ago, dan cata said:

I have already checked the side stand switch and the gear switch, appear to be working.

For the EWS... I had the antenna unplugged and switched on the ignition. After a while, there was the big font EWS shown on the dash, at all times (because the antenna was unplugged). It all went away after I connected the antenna and cleared the error codes.

 

For the camshaft and crankshaft sensors... is there a resistance value I need to measure when spinning the rear wheel? Does the crankshaft sensor get grud built up on it?

Or how can I verify them? What should I read on the multimeter, and when? (I'm guessing, most likely, it's a matter of what)

 

Dan.

 

Morning Dan

 

OK, your observations show it probably isn't the EWS system.

 

As to testing the crank & cam sensor?-- Good question as I haven't personally measured either one (I usually just substitute in a known good one).

 

First verify that both are firmly plugged into the bikes harness, then maybe try measuring the sensors resistance (just to look for an open). The cam & crankshaft sensor work about the same so they might have similar resistance (just a guess on my part).

 

You might also try disconnecting  each sensor then measuring the AC voltage output during engine cranking  (not sure if this will work or not). Can you see any tac movement during engine cranking? If you see a tac reading that probably tells you the crank sensor has input. If you don't have any tac movement then that may or may not tell you the crankshaft  sensor is bad.

 

Have you tried a 1 hour battery disconnect??? That might reset a locked BMS-KP (more of a hope than a help on this one though).  

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dan cata

OK, will try the above and report back :)

I have seen some videos where the sensors need powering and then if a metal is in the proximity of the sensor, it changes value. Will see what I can measure.

 

Dan.

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dirtrider
On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 9:59 AM, dan cata said:

:5223:

 

Just a short follow up for future readers__

 

Dan sent me a PM stating that it is now running.

 

He found the below_______ Red is from Dan black added by me.

 

"The crank sensor (connector) was put in, but not pushed (in) all the way... I have pressed it (in all the way)  and then tested the spark... voila!!--- 

Then  put on the tank and it fired right up."  

 

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wbw6cos

Sometimes it is the simple things.

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dirtrider
8 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Sometimes it is the simple things.

 

Evening  wbw6cos

 

Problem is, they are usually not 'SIMPLE' until you identify them.

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