White vs Amber Running Lights

[Miguel!]

Mods, please move this if its not the right forum to post this.

 

My Bottom Line: Amber, for two key reasons:
1.    Anecdotal: Bright yellow lights show up better in the sea of bright-white car lights
2.    Scientific: People perceive yellow better during the day and white better at night; and I avoid riding at night whenever I can.

 

The rest of this posts digs in deeper to these issues and justifies my rational. 

This is a really long post but writing it helped me sort out the details in my head. So proceed with caution.

 

Here’s the anecdotal evidence:
My new-to-me BMW R1100RT has a notoriously dim headlight. As such, I am intent on improving the front-facing illumination. That decision is supported by the famous Hurt Study, still valid today, that found “that one of the most frequent causes of motorcycle accidents is when an oncoming vehicle turns left in front of a motorcycle because the driver didn’t notice it.” Digging back into my memory from a decade ago, I think it’s about 80% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by something in front of them, vs getting rear-ended. That includes, of course, road conditions, rider (in)attention, weather, and going too fast for the conditions. 

 

A noteworthy past experience I had: In addition to a motorcyclist, I’m also an avid road bicyclist. And bicyclists encounter the same, perhaps more, dangerous situations as motorcyclists. When I first read the Hurt Report conclusion, I did an experiment, motivated by motorcycle headlight modulators. I got a bright blinking, front-facing, white LED bicycle light. The difference in how cars reacted to me was astounding from the very first. There are many places on my rides where cars just don’t see me and pull out in front of me. The blinking light made me MUCH more conspicuous. Since then, I’ve been bicycling with quite-bright flashing bicycle lights. 

I’ve since translated this experience to my Vespa for the last 10 years and my experience in getting seen by other road users (cars, motorcyclists, pedestrians, bicyclists) has been remarkable. I’ll never ride a bike or motorcycle again during the day without bright forward facing lights. I know not everyone agrees with this assertion so make up your own mind.

 

For my “new” BMW R1100RT, I had originally intended to put white/amber switchback LEDs in my turn signals. Switchback LEDs have white and amber LEDs. They run in white till the turn signal is engaged which shut off the white and they flash amber on-off-on-off until cancelled, similar to Mercedes and Audi. This requires replacing the 1156 socket in the turn signals with an 1157 socket. I found one on Amazon that fits almost perfectly in the R1100RT turn signal fixture for US$7. 

Also, fast-forwarding to earlier this week, there was a newer BMW 1200/1250GS that pulled in behind me while I was driving home from work that had quite bright yellow LED running lights. It was SOOO conspicuous behind me even when other cars got between us. Intent on understanding what brand the lights were, I jumped out at a traffic light and asked the rider: Clearwater Sevina with 7500+ lumens on high, each(!), and he had them on low. He had the amber lens on them. The beam was quite tightly focused and SOOO obvious. I’m guessing that the low beam is probably about 2000 lumens, each. 

 

But, since my experience earlier in the week and the fact that I have time on vacation, I thought I’d do a little research on white vs yellow running lights before pulling the trigger.

 

Amongst the most informative reading I did was from a 2006 webbikeworld article. In general, I always appreciate wBw's independent research articles and buy MC-related gear and equipment through them whenever I can to support them. 

 

This article is about Rick K.’s 2006 experiments with yellow headlights. While anecdotal in nature, it is quite thoughtful and informative and there are a lot of great comments by readers at the end of the article. 

 

Here’s a few key observations from the article:
“Most “white” LEDs are in the 3000K – 5000K”. Kelvin is a measure of color based on temperature, the higher the temperature, the whiter and brighter the perceived color.  Shop lights, for example, are about 5000K. Most OEM incandescent bulbs have color temperature of 2800 Kelvin which is perceived as a warm, yellowish light. 

Rick chose “yellow lights down to around 2000°K to 2500°K, about the same color as candlelight.”

 

I’ll let you read Rick’s 11 page article if you want but jumping to his concluding comments: “I am pleased with the outcome of this very unscientific experiment. The Nokia bulbs have a very yellow and very distinctive color, and many people have commented on them, so they must be doing their job. Until someone conducts proper testing and analysis, the issue of visibility will be purely conjecture, but my opinion is that these bulbs will definitely make a motorcycle stand out from the crowd. Keep in mind this article was done 13 years ago before cars had such white lights so observations are as relevant today as they were then. There are more contemporary articles but I found Rick K’s the most informative.

 

Here's the scientific evidence:
Amongst the best comments following the article, in my opinion, was by “R.M.” who supported his comments factually and scientifically in a way I hadn’t seen before. R.M.’s writing style and knowledge clearly indicate that he has a science background, or at least a great appreciation for science. Given my engineering and science background, I had no problem following the subtleties of the information. I just copied and pasted and hope that doesn’t violate site policies (and I did cite the source material) but R.M.’s comments and observations were right-on, even tho they were written in 2010, 2.5 years after the original article's publish date.

 

The text between the [...] are mine to help clarify some of his/her comments. Also, the hyperlinks to the original webpages did not carry over. You'll have to go to the original article to get there if you are interested in digging in further.

 

From “R.M.” (10/08):  “First off, thank you for the interesting and in depth commentary that is posted on webBikeWorld.com.
I found the article on “Improving Visibility with Yellow Bulbs” interesting and never thought of the idea of slightly “tainting” headlight color in order to make a motorcyclist stand out amongst other vehicles.

I think that there might be more to it than simply making a contrasting color to the average white hue of an automobile’s lamps.

Although you cite that there isn’t any quantitative data to support the use of yellow beams and its effect on motorcyclist’s safety, there is some data that can be drawn from visible light’s Luminous Efficiency and its relation to color. For a given output power of, say, a 55 watt lamp, the human eye will perceive a varied intensity based not only on the power output of the lamp but also on the wavelength (aka color) of the visible light being emitted.
This is knonw was the Luminosity Efficiency Function (link to Wikipedia.)

The interesting thing is that the peak wavelength/color for perceived intensity is different for night and day vision because your eye uses different receptors to collect the visible light at different conditions. That is to say one color will seem brightest during night vision and another color will seem brightest during day vision even though the actual power output of the lamp hasn’t changed. 

The brightest appearing color for daylight is at a wavelength of 555 nanometers which relates to a greenish yellow (true yellow is 570 nm; true green is 530nm).  It’s no surprise that high visibility clothing that some motorcyclist use is this yellow/green color. [In other words, human vision is more sensitive to  yellow-green than other colors.]

The brightest appearing color during night vision is 510 nm which correlates to a greenish blue (see the spectrum and efficiency chart [the green curve is night vision efficiency while the black curve is daylight. Note the y scale is loss (.1 = 10% efficient)].) This is suggesting that by the use of yellow headlamps, a motorcyclist is not only differentiating themselves from automobiles but also projecting the best perceived (brightest) wavelength of light in an effort to be as visible as possible during daylight driving. 

However, motorcyclist don’t only right during daylight conditions. Daylight vision, called Photopic vision (Wiki) uses the cones in the eyes to collect the visible light which also allows the perception of color. 

Night vision, called Scotopic vision (Wiki) utilizes rods to collect the visible light (or lack of) and losses the ability to perceive color.
Now, we all know that we can still tell a red Ducati from a green Kawasaki when we speed around at night on a motorway but that is because the level of light intensity must be seriously low to be in the range of scotopic vision. 

Page 2 of this article by Sylvania gives a great correlation of levels of darkness to the “luminance” (cd/m^2) level and the associated vision modes. 

What is probably of most interest to us is that there is an area of mixed rod/cone use called Mesopic vision (Wiki.)  This mixed rod/cone use allows some perception of color, particularly blues. Many automobile headlights (HID, Xenon [and high-Kelvin LEDs]) already use this principle to create a bluish cast of light for the most efficient color of light to light up the road ahead and this would apply to motorcyclist also. And this correlates to the fact that the highest efficiency wavelength for night vision is 510nm.

What hurts the argument for yellow headlamps is the fact that pure yellow (570nm) is only about 40-50% efficient during pure night vision conditions. It is probably a higher level of efficiency since most riding conditions are with mesopic vision but it shows that while yellow headlamps are likely the best option for daylight visibility, they hurt the ability of the motorcyclist to see what their headlight is illuminating at night on a dark road. [But I am mostly concerned with being conspicuous during daylight riding and not very concerned about more light at night.]

They would still provide the contrast that is important in traffic where driver’s eyes are in the mesopic region and can perceive colors and that might be what some riders are looking for. 

But for riders who tend to ride in dark, rural areas with low levels of street lighting, this might be a concern and a yellow light might only be perceived as farther away and dimmer than a standard white hue. The author [Rick K] countered the fact of lower illumination intensity at night with the use of a higher output bulb and that is certainly a good solution for both light conditions.

I bet the yellow shows like like crazy during the day to oncoming traffic and might even be to the level of a white hue high beam during the day while not over blinding at night. Another idea might be a mixed use of colors. 

Although you’d [look] like a overzealous fan of a sports team whose colors are yellow and blue, a combination of yellow and blue bulbs could be the best of both worlds for day visibility to other drivers while maintaining or enhancing night illumination.”

 

So bottom line:  I am at least going to try the amber running lights in my turn signal housings that are bright, continuous amber and flash amber-off-amber-off when the turn signal is engaged. This allows me to at least evaluate yellow running lights. It is a small modification to try the switchback LEDs. I may experiment with them as well. 

 

I found these bright yellow LEDs on Amazon that are 1800 degrees K, which is quite yellow, and are 1600 Lumens for about 6 Watts, about 250 Lumens/Watt while the 21 Watt OEM incandescent bulb outputs about 300 lumens or about 1.5 Lumens/Watt. The yellow LEDs are US$17/pair.  Also, 6 Watts enclosed in the R1100RT turn signal housing is unlikely to get too hot (but I plan to do an experiment with a spare mirror housing I have and I’ll post the results here). I think the housing is made from molded ABS that has a melting temperature of 220 degrees F (105 C) so I’m not too worried. 

 

I also found the “Blinker Genie” 2-to-3  wire electronic converter on Amazon (thanks to a post on BMWsportrouring.com post from someone in 2012 I think) that can be used for the switchback LEDs if I go that way. 

 

I’ll let you know how it all works out and will provide implementation details then. I hope you made though my long post! Stay tuned for updates over the coming weeks. I won't be back from vacation till the first week of March.

 

Best
Miguel

[RTinNC]

All I know is from my experience Amber / Yellow driving lights are MUCH more conspicuous in the daytime.   I first used the Amber Moto-lights before the LED's took over and myself and my riding buddies all founds them to be much easier to spot on the interstate.   They really make you stand out.  So ever since 2002 on my 1150GS all my bikes have had amber / yellow lights.  Just my own personal experience and opinion.  Not scientific just what I have noticed. 

[wbw6cos]

On my R1200C, I use Skene LEDs that have conspicuity flicker.  With that and being mounted low (caliper mount bolts,) I immediately noticed a difference with cars in front of me doing a "double take" and not pulling out (or turning) in front of me.  They also have amber LEDs.

 

https://www.skenelights.com

 

 

[realshelby]

I won't run amber running lights. I do have Skene LED's with their conspicuous flicker that I do believe is better than not having the flicker. 

 

Amber running lights take away the effect of amber turn signals when they are used. To me that is dangerous. If you had a module that turned off the amber running lights when turn signals were activated, then I would be ok with them. 

 

Just my opinion.

[Miguel!]

Hey Realshelby,

 

I appreciate your opinion. I agree with you. My intended design will flash the yellow running light in the turn signal amber-off-amber-off, not dim-bright-dim-bright. Think of it like this: Its just like the regular turn signal when engaged but when the turn signal is cancelled, it bulb stays on instead of going off. 

 

I looked at the Skene. I really want the lights integrating in my turn signals to preserve the bikes clean lines. Integrating the Skene into the turn signals would require permanent modifications to the turn signal housing which I'd prefer not to do. I don't think I've ever seen the flicking you mentioned on any other bike. I'll keep my eyes open for it. 

 

Thanks!!

Miguel

[RTinNC]

25 minutes ago, realshelby said:

I won't run amber running lights. I do have Skene LED's with their conspicuous flicker that I do believe is better than not having the flicker. 

 

Amber running lights take away the effect of amber turn signals when they are used. To me that is dangerous. If you had a module that turned off the amber running lights when turn signals were activated, then I would be ok with them. 

 

Just my opinion.

 

I have always mounted them down low on calipers or similar location.  No impact whatsoever with turn signals.  I DO agree that most ANY lights mounts up by mirrors or under fairing can not only impact the signals but they can totally mask the signals. 

 

My experience is from riding 1000's of miles with buddies running amber / yellow lights and how they really stand out in situations like the interstate where you may be leading and trying to keep an eye on those behind you.   Many times the white lights just blend in with all the other white lights out there.  I am most concerned with being seen!   If I wanted to light the road at night then white lights are the way to go. 

[Bill_Walker]

Anecdotally, over the years I've found amber auxiliary lights mounted on the forks are the most noticeable when I'm looking in my mirrors at the riders behind me.  Which is why I went for fork-mounted Clearwater Darlas with removable yellow lenses on my R1200RT.  I try to avoid riding at night, but if I get caught out, I can pop off those lenses and switch to white lights in accordance with the research you posted.  That being said, if I recall correctly you lose a lot of the programmable flexibility of the Clearwaters if you're installing them on a non-CANbus bike like your R1100RT.  There are probably cheaper options that will work just as well for you.

 

When I got my R1150RT, it alread had a Kisan SignalMinder installed.  It replaces your turn signal flasher.  That module can be programmed to run your turn signals at low intensity as running lights, and I had mine set as such (with standard amber lenses).  But I also had a pair of PIAA 1100x driving lights under the oil cooler for conspicuity.

[Indy Dave]

Some years ago, Jake was following me on a ride. He had the Skene Proton Blasters on his forks. Those lights ALWAYS caught my eye when checking my mirrors. I was so impressed, I bought   the company  a pair myself. They can be also programed to flash and can also blink along with your turn signal when turning.

 

Ain't the cheapest thing on the market @$129 - $164 depending on options.

[realshelby]

@Miguel, I was thinking you were talking about adding additional "amber" lights down lower on the bike. Converting turn signals to running lights is just fine as long as the lower output running filament is not on while signal action is on. What I do not like is additional amber running lights mounted down low. In my opinion those are usually brighter than signal lights and cause eye attention to not see the actual signal light. 

 

Over the years I think I do agree that the "Triangle" effect of auxiliary lights is a good thing to go for on a motorcycle. 

[JamesW]

Hi Miguel,

I highly recommend a Kisan Signal Minder for $108.  Check it out on their web sight.  I also installed a headlight modulator from Kisan also for $108.  Both are installed on my R1100RSL and I should have done this years ago.

[tallman]

Second for the Signal MInder.

Also, Run-n-lites, Lite Buddies will work in the R 1100.

Converts front and rear turn signal into full time on red/rear, amber flash for turn.

You can convert the front to yellow bulbs or lenses and they are on full time except to flash as a turn.

You can see the Moto Lites on the forks and the turn signals as running lites.

 

[lkraus]

22 hours ago, Miguel! said:

Hey Realshelby,

 

I appreciate your opinion. I agree with you. My intended design will flash the yellow running light in the turn signal amber-off-amber-off, not dim-bright-dim-bright. Think of it like this: Its just like the regular turn signal when engaged but when the turn signal is cancelled, it bulb stays on instead of going off. 

 

I looked at the Skene. I really want the lights integrating in my turn signals to preserve the bikes clean lines. Integrating the Skene into the turn signals would require permanent modifications to the turn signal housing which I'd prefer not to do. I don't think I've ever seen the flicking you mentioned on any other bike. I'll keep my eyes open for it. 

 

Thanks!!

Miguel

 

 

Your design would work much like my setup, which uses Skene's Photon Blasters with the Turn Signal option and some extra adhesive LED strips inside the turn signals. The Skene instructions call for cutting the wire to the stock incandescent bulbs, but I did not want to  do that.

The only modification to the turn signal housing was a small (5/32"?) hole on the backside to pass the wire through, sealed with silicone. The strips can be cut every three LEDS - I cut mine in half, giving me nine yellow LEDs per side. The tricky part was inserting the strips through the bulb holder hole and positioning them with a long thin stick.  There is room for another strip per side - I may add another when I find a good roundtoit. The strips I used came with small 2-wire plug-in connectors, so I can easily remove the upper fairing if needed.

 

The upper LEDs appear brighter in person than they do in this picture,  they are actually aimed mostly to the side due to the shape of the housing.  They operate just like the lower ones, as running lights with flicker, and as turn signals flashing between full brightness and off, in sync with the stock bulbs. The pulse width modulation that produces the (dimmer) flicker on the left side is not apparent - the camera recorded both sides at a moment of full brightness.

 

I cannot say everyone will see me coming, but I do see a lot of drivers pausing for a double-take, and so far, no one has pulled out in front of me.

[KneeDrachen]

I run the Skene Photon Blasters up front and the P3s in the rear.  While they do add to making you more conspicuois, its been my experience 3 of the 4 light modules (2 up front, 1 rear) slowly begin to fail a few LEDs at a time.  I have had half a mind to keep the control boxes but add more robust light pods.

 

I run Denali D4 2.0s with the amber filters up front as well so it serves as redundancy due to the Skenes failing a bit at a time.  And yes, I added a "drip loop" with the wiring.  For the rear, I also run an Admore SMART rear brake light.

 

Oh and this is my first post.

 

Hi!

[realshelby]

I guess one point I failed to make is simply the distance between signal lights. There is no doubt regulations for that. While I very much like a "light triangle" I do not want signal lights close together. I know the picture does not do lights justice. I have Skene lights and know how bright they appear at the right angle to them. My problem is that the lights on the forks are likely brighter than the factory position signal lights. Fork mounted lights are probably 10-12" apart. Very easy to see where a motorist could see a left light blinking and assume you are turning right. Just not enough separation to be foolproof about which direction they indicate. 

 

I have done a lot of looking at different lights on my different bikes over the years. I think the Skene P3 lights are simply in a league by themselves in how they attract attention. I have seen bikes with amber running lights. I don't think they are more visible as a rule personally, but that would depend on what lights you are comparing. 

[realshelby]

4 minutes ago, KneeDrachen said:

I run the Skene Photon Blasters up front and the P3s in the rear.  While they do add to making you more conspicuois, its been my experience 3 of the 4 light modules (2 up front, 1 rear) slowly begin to fail a few LEDs at a time.  I have had half a mind to keep the control boxes but add more robust light pods.

 

 

Welcome!

 

I have Skene lights front and rear. You made me go turn on the bike to inspect the LED's! 

 

All are on and fully bright as I remember. 4 1/2 years old and 40K miles.  But it is a good thing to inspect stuff like that. 

[KneeDrachen]

The light pods are sold with the caveat that they are not weatherproof so I am not faulting them by any stroke of the imagination.  Its a good product and the pricepoint is excellent and the amount of attention they command on the road is beyond compare.

 

Now I am torn between Darlas with a yellow filter or Moto Lights with the amber module.  Interestingly enough, the Moto Lights are more money once you add the LED module.

[Miguel!]

I appreciate all your opinion. Thanks.

 

The consensus is pretty is pretty clear: yellow/amber is better choice than white. I also posed this question on ModernVespa.com since I've been active member there for 10 years. For those that answered the simple question or white vs yellow, yellow won. So I'm going with yellow

 

My implementation design will flash the yellow turn-signal amber-off-amber-off, not dim-bright-dim-bright, and run full brightness when the turn signal is not engaged. 

I looked at the Skene. Those riders that have replied about the Skene have really been positive about them. But I really want the lights integrating into my turn signals to preserve the bikes clean lines so won't go with the Skene at this juncture.

 

I found amber LED's on Amazon that project 1600 Lumens (6 Watts) for $17 with free Prime delivery. By comparison, the OEM incandescent bulbs are 21 Watts and project only ~250 Lumens. If I find that I want them  somewhat brighter, it's easy to replace the yellow lens with a clear lens ($17 on eBay) to reduce the light attenuation. I'll report back when I get them installed in a few weeks.

Regarding the switching itself, I considered the SignalMinder and running my own power from the fuse box. I'm proficient at electronics and electricity so either will work. I decided to go with the SignalMinder for two reasons:

1. It's a straight forward plug-and-play and can be changed over in a 10-15 minutes. No additional relays, fuses, or switches needed. Additionally, the SignalMinder adds some new features that look quite useful. One of the advantages of course is that the Signal Minder can reduce the brightness if I find 1600 Lumens just too bright. 
2. Running my own wire from the fuse box or some other wire from under the dash, like the low beam or accessory plug, requires that I mount 3 relays, a switch (to power it off if I need to), tapping into the bike wiring and then figuring out how to mount it all under the dash. Between ordering parts, removing various fairing panels, wiring into the fuse box, running the wire, figuring out how to mount a switch to shut if off, ..., I figure it would take me a four-five hours. I'd rather go for a ride.

Thanks!!

Miguel

[Miguel!]

2 hours ago, lkraus said:

The tricky part was inserting the strips through the bulb holder hole and positioning them with a long thin stick.  There is room for another strip per side - I may add another when I find a good roundtoit.

 

Ikraus. There's an easy way to work inside the turns signal enclosure. You can disassemble it (four screws) and then the yellow lens come soff easily by popping it off four small tabs. You'll see them on top and bottom. Use a small, flat-bladed screwdriver to to pry off the lens. Disassembly and reassembly takes less than 60 seconds and allows you to easily work inside and then close it back up.

 

What's a roundiot? I suspect something misspelled.

 

Best

Miguel

[KneeDrachen]

I went this route with my Thruxton...

[lkraus]

1 hour ago, Miguel! said:

 

Ikraus. There's an easy way to work inside the turns signal enclosure. You can disassemble it (four screws) and then the yellow lens come soff easily by popping it off four small tabs. You'll see them on top and bottom. Use a small, flat-bladed screwdriver to to pry off the lens. Disassembly and reassembly takes less than 60 seconds and allows you to easily work inside and then close it back up.

 

What's a roundiot? I suspect something misspelled.

 

Best

Miguel

Your signal housings and mine are different, and I remember my lens as being glued to the reflector.   But, it's been a few years since I've had a look at them.  Skene does offer their controllers without light modules, if you want to use your own lights and avoid the relays and such. Their installation diagrams might give you some ideas: https://www.skenelights.com/installation-photon-blaster

 

 

[Miguel!]

Thanks Ikraus.

[wbw6cos]

For the Skenes up front, they sell adapters brackets and extra LED's to allow you to have more than one on each side.  If memory serves me, I believe you can put up to 4 of them together, but I could not confirm that from their FAQ.  I have been wanting to add 2 more to each side of my forks on the cruiser, but have not gotten around to it.  Actually, I forgot about doing  that until this thread came along.  Thanks!

[Bill_Walker]

12 hours ago, realshelby said:

I guess one point I failed to make is simply the distance between signal lights. There is no doubt regulations for that. While I very much like a "light triangle" I do not want signal lights close together. I know the picture does not do lights justice. I have Skene lights and know how bright they appear at the right angle to them. My problem is that the lights on the forks are likely brighter than the factory position signal lights. Fork mounted lights are probably 10-12" apart. Very easy to see where a motorist could see a left light blinking and assume you are turning right. Just not enough separation to be foolproof about which direction they indicate. 

 

I have never seen anyone so much as suggest that fork-mounted lights should operate as turn signals, let alone seen any that do.

[Bill_Walker]

Miguel, if you get the Signal Minder, you don't have to do any of the signal wiring you suggest.  Just install the signal minder, and you can program it to run your existing turn signals as running lights, and turn them off to blink the signals.  I don't think that's anywhere near as conspicuous as fork-mounted auxiliary lights, but every little bit helps.

[Bill_Walker]

FWIW, I have the Skene Photon Blasters on the front of my KLX250S, where electrical power is at a premium.  They hardly draw anything.  But an R1100RT has the alternator power to run pretty much anything you want.

[Indy Dave]

1 hour ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

I have never seen anyone so much as suggest that fork-mounted lights should operate as turn signals, let alone seen any that do.

 

My amber fork mounted Skene's double as supplemental turn signals.

 

5 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

For the Skenes up front, they sell adapters brackets and extra LED's to allow you to have more than one on each side.  If memory serves me, I believe you can put up to 4 of them together, but I could not confirm that from their FAQ.  I have been wanting to add 2 more to each side of my forks on the cruiser, but have not gotten around to it.  Actually, I forgot about doing  that until this thread came along.  Thanks!

 

You can add more panels - not sure how many though. At $69.99 a pair for additional LED panels, it doesn't seem to be cost effective.

[wbw6cos]

4 hours ago, Indy Dave said:

 

 

 

You can add more panels - not sure how many though. At $69.99 a pair for additional LED panels, it doesn't seem to be cost effective.

 

I think that was one of the reasons for helping me be "forgetful."  HA

[lkraus]

7 hours ago, Indy Dave said:

 

My amber fork mounted Skene's double as supplemental turn signals.

 

 

You can add more panels - not sure how many though. At $69.99 a pair for additional LED panels, it doesn't seem to be cost effective.

The Photon Blaster (front) install instructions say the controller can handle a 3 amp current per side.  The description of the extra LED modules says that Skene controllers can handle up to forty LED modules, so 3.0/40= .075 A per 12 LED module.  The main point is that there is plenty of capacity so you can add whatever LED configuration you might want - no need to use the Skene modules.

[Miguel!]

Thanks WBW. There's lots of positive comments on Skenes. I'll keep them in mind as I go forward. 

 

Cheers

Miguel

[Miguel!]

10 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

Miguel, if you get the Signal Minder, you don't have to do any of the signal wiring you suggest.  Just install the signal minder, and you can program it to run your existing turn signals as running lights, and turn them off to blink the signals.  I don't think that's anywhere near as conspicuous as fork-mounted auxiliary lights, but every little bit helps.

 

Thanks Bill. The SignalMinder is my plan A. I'll keep the Skenes in mind. I'm surprised at the $70 price of the Skenes LEDs without the controller. 

 

I now remember that I'd seen the flickering Skenes on other bikes but I didn't know they were Skene's. I always thought it was a defect in the LEDs rather than a design feature! 

 

Miguel

[Indy Dave]

On 2/18/2019 at 9:41 AM, KneeDrachen said:

I run the Skene Photon Blasters up front and the P3s in the rear.  While they do add to making you more conspicuois, its been my experience 3 of the 4 light modules (2 up front, 1 rear) slowly begin to fail a few LEDs at a time.  I have had half a mind to keep the control boxes but add more robust light pods.

 

I run Denali D4 2.0s with the amber filters up front as well so it serves as redundancy due to the Skenes failing a bit at a time.  And yes, I added a "drip loop" with the wiring.  For the rear, I also run an Admore SMART rear brake light.

 

Oh and this is my first post.

 

Hi!

 

 

Welcome!

 

I had a front panel lose one LED. The Skene's come with a two year warranty. I contacted Skene, and that panel was replaced under warranty. They seemed to be of the opinion that the LED failure was due to the lack of a drip loop. Except I had a drip loop and provided photos of same.  They confirmed that. Not they they wern't going to replace it under warranty for a lack of a drip loop - I sent them pictures because the lack of a drip loop was not the cause.

 

Late this summer, one of the panels - I don't know if it was the one that was replaced or the remaining original - had 2 LED's fail. I wrote to Skene about it - but being out of warranty - I had to buy a replacement. Which is, of course, their right. I have these front and back on my bike and bought another set of the rear lights for a buddy (as a present) to mount on his Honda ST. Skene owes me nothing. But considering the issue I had with one of the panels earlier on and now this - I wondered if there might have been a batch issue in production or something. While polite, Mr. Skene billed me $35.00 plus $5.99 shipping for one panel.     A fool and his money go separate ways as they say, and I paid for the panel. I was disappointed that some kind of adjustment wasn't offered. I did let Mr. Skene know that if I had further issues, I would be pursuing more cost effective avenues. At the time, I didn't want to invest the time into other alternatives.

 

It does not take much to keep happy customers happy, who can be the best salesman for your product.  For the price of the Skene's and issues I had, and the fact that it's a small family company, I expected better customer service. Just sayin'.

 

I have Amber LED strips like Larry has above, I could use those to cover every inch of my bike for the $40.00 per led panel from Skene. The Skene controller is nifty and I like the Skene flicker feature. As pointed out elsewhere, the controller will  operate lights other than the Skene.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Indy Dave

[Pappy35]

I'm looking into getting Denali DRLs up front and dual B6's for the rear (assuming they ever come back into stock of course) to be driven by a Cansmart or EZCan. Anyone here use these that can comment about their conspicuity and durability? I am intrigued by this white vs. yellow debate. I never gave it much thought until this thread started.

[RTinNC]

I have Denali DR2's on my 2012 GSA and like them a lot!   They are built like a tank and work well.  The are less expensive than Clearwaters but are still excellent lights.   My buddy has the smaller Denalis (believe they are DR1 ?)  and they too work well and even though they are smaller they really pop in the daytime. 

 

As far as yellow/amber vs white ..... the white running lights are good ... yellow in my opinion are better.   The yellow just seem to really stand out and are super visible. 

 

Not sure about the B6's.

[wbw6cos]

I love the look (and low power draw of LED's,) but what won me over was the caliper mounting option, which made it pretty straightforward to install cleanly.  Yes, other LED's can be used, but I was sold on the mounts and also the flicker option.  There are a ton of options in the market for LED's to put on motorcycles. 

 

Eventually, I may install an LED headlight from an RnineT to match the other LED's mounted low, but that is a back-burner project.

[tallman]

Another plus for having your turn signal lights on all the time is that it can provide a side marker light, not common on motorcycles.

Some have even run power to saddlebags and installed side light for conspicuity.

 

I commuted in the dark, thru National Forest dark.

My running llights output was like high beam for my seeing down the road, but not like high beam for oncoming drivers.

Point being are you using lights for conspicuity, or your field of vision?

Do yellow lights provide distance illumination equal to, or better than white lights?

I've seen one of each.

I've seen them angled for showing the roadside more than roadway (varmits/curves).

Whatever direction one chooses, remember to not outride your lights.

A lot easier to do BITD when lights only worked for about 100 feet...

[Miguel!]

3 hours ago, tallman said:

 

Thanks Tallman. Lights are for conspicuity. I avoid riding at night if possible. 

 

I already made and implemented my decision based on . I went with amber and got a signal minder. I was going to roll-my-own electrics but I liked the signal minder features, the money wasn't much and I'd rather spend the day riding than working on modifications. The only thing I don't like about the signal minder is that they they have a low and high illumination setting. At the low setting, the lights are about 30% of full brightness, and only 70% on high. I just discovered this. I presumed it was 100% on hight. I called them because the bulbs in "blinker" mode were brighter. I was disappointed. I may go back and use a really to get back to full power. We'll see. 

 

Best

Miguel!