Jump to content
Whip

World Population Decline?

Recommended Posts

Whip

It seems these folks think it is very possible. 

 

Paul Ehrlich will not be happy....or maybe he is?

 

There have been so many things used to scare me and influence me in my life I am beginning to doubt everything.

 

What do y'all think?


Empty Planet
 
"In Empty Planet, John Ibbitson and Darrell Bricker find that a smaller global population will bring with it many benefits: fewer workers will command higher wages; the environment will improve; the risk of famine will wane; and falling birthrates in the developing world will bring greater affluence and autonomy for women. "

 

 

FYI.... I have no affiliation with the authors.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realshelby

This will likely test "full throttle"! 

 

In my opinion, over population is the Worlds number one, biggest, most dangerous problem. 

 

I have had that opinion for decades. 

 

I acted on it. By having one child and no more. Selfish to think you need 2, 3, 5, 8 children in my opinion. Arrogant to actually have them. Even if you can support them properly. 

 

Then there are the Religious beliefs that require you to have many children. Which is based on things not or at least less relevant today. Except for the fact that large families increase the membership in that faction. 

 

I have friends with several kids, I am not out to ridicule them every time we get together. But they have all asked me why we have one child, and they didn't like the answer I gave. They are still good friends. 

 

Whether you agree or not, whether you are offended or not, these are my views. I believe they are true enough that I acted on them.  There may come a time in history when we need to increase population. Fine. I just don't think the world can support the population it has, at the level of technology we have, for the centuries ahead. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tallman

What makes you think that contraception/fertility drugs aren't already part of corporate food strategies?

 

As governments change, due to population shifts/migration (like Europe), or theocratically (Middle East), why wouldn't

new regimes consider food additives and calories restrictions to increase/decrease populations, as required, or desired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BrianM
2 hours ago, realshelby said:

This will likely test "full throttle"! 

 

In my opinion, over population is the Worlds number one, biggest, most dangerous problem. 

 

I have had that opinion for decades. 

 

I acted on it. By having one child and no more. Selfish to think you need 2, 3, 5, 8 children in my opinion. Arrogant to actually have them. Even if you can support them properly. 

 

 

 

Agree with you. Reason why I would not have any children of my own.

 

We adopted our child. Didn't add to the problem since she already existed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jackie

Very interesting topic and one that has been with me for a few decades, also why I chose to never have children. From what I've been reading, countries with a birthrate of less than two children are on their way out. Several European and other countries are at risk. Now, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Depends. The muslims are breeding themselves into greater existence with higher birthrates then the rest of us, as are some other ethnicities. And then I hear about conspiracy theories, hate the white man, kill their unborn, physician assisted suicide for their elders - what are we supposed to think? It's a delicate balance. I read Neal Pert's book, The Masked Rider, and it was interesting in that he observed how other countries intervene in their culture, bring in well water, as an example; so more babies are surviving, and they have no more food to feed them, therefore they are starving. Well, it's a deep topic...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KDeline

Agree about over population, never had children for that exact reason. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twisties

We also didn't have kids, in part for those reasons.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whip

According to this new info your choices (and mine) shared by many I am sure has had it's desired results.

 

This also means means humans will have more resources, more land to grow food,... and no one to pay my Social Security. :88:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

My thoughts on this are fairly dark and hope like so many of my predictions, I am way off base, or just wrong.  It used to be wars, famine and pestilence sort of kept human numbers in check.  We have lived in an unusually stable period as far as world wars are concerned, but that doesn't mean squat to those in the regional conflict zones as many have been killed there.  Famine continues, but is also limited to regions of a natural disaster or political unrest. The scale of these terrible events maybe only bend the curve of population growth. That leaves a WW, or pestilence to drop human population in a significant way.  World water wars? Maybe, but desalination will delay that for a while. With the misuse of antibiotics creating super bugs, or god forbid, something man made a real possibility, I'm guessing pestilence gets us first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whip

Paul, 

 

The premise of the new research is that we are already headed toward negative growth so no need to worry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream
On 2/5/2019 at 10:48 AM, Whip said:

"In Empty Planet, John Ibbitson and Darrell Bricker find that a smaller global population will bring with it many benefits: fewer workers will command higher wages; the environment will improve; the risk of famine will wane; . "

 

 

 

Maybe I'm not the brightest rock in the bag, but isn't the above statement a "duh, common sense" thing?  I mean, does it really take a "study" to say that?

 

On overpopulation,.....quit getting vaccinated,.....that'll cause a drastic drop :3:

 

We're so worried about living forever that we forget the herd needs to be thinned out every now and then, if'n you think overpopulation is a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RecentConvert

Two years ago, our company brought in a well known speaker to enlighten us on the future of manufacturing markets.  He was well versed in his analysis of population and how it affected markets/manufacturing.  One of his predictions was that we (USA) had little to fear from China since their birthrate was less than replacement level and their economy would collapse because there weren't enough young people to support the aging and be productive. "A population must grow" was his overall message.

 

Obviously he wasn't an environmental or sustainability person!  I am and have been in this field for 40+ years.

 

I use numbers too.  The world population is 7.678 billion people as of a few minutes ago.  Per the experts in academia (I may not believe them, but have no better source), the planet can sustainably support a human population of 3.5 - 4.5 billion with current conditions.  In general terms, the food supply currently meets demand.  To do so, agriculture relies heavily on pesticides and genetically modified plants (corn, soybeans).  The agricultural industry has done an excellent job in keeping up!  But it isn't sustainable.

 

The developed world wants "clean" foods.  Those grown without antibiotics, pesticides and genetic modification.  This is admirable, but presents a choice most don't consider.  In general terms, organically grown crops without GM seeds produce less (much less) yield.  If agriculture returns to the "clean" foods of the past, there will be less food, possibly much less food.  Both animal and vegetable food.   So the choice means that someone (usually the poor) goes hungry.  Simple reality.

 

Alternatives.  There are means to address the above.  As a devout carnivore (I don't eat many vegetables), I also know that the vegetarian diet is far more efficient that a carnivorous diet.  Probably a factor of 3-4 times as efficient, maybe more.  I know this. I also know that man has existed for a long time, thousands or millions of years, and has had some choice of diet.  Vegetarianism is about 6% of the current population.  I don't expect us carnivores to suddenly change.  I am not going to.

 

It is an old concept, but the balance of nature is real.  When a population gets out of control, nature finds a way to bring it back to balance.  Nature isn't kind, but highly effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
elkroeger

Local overpopulation is an interesting topic in ecology.  Rabbits, lemmings, etc. will overpopulate an island for example, and then crash.  The main things are disease and/or depletion of resources (food).  I expect to be dead before that happens to Humans here on Earth.  But you never know.  There's lots of really neat diseases out there that are just a few plane rides from going global.  Surely there's a terrorist out there growing ebola in a lab, with a scheme to distribute it across the planet.  Won't that be fun?

 

I agree with previous sentiments about not having kids.  But people are funny.  I rented a room once from a lady who said she was "supposed to have a toaster", so she bought a toaster even though she had never used one (or it).  Her house was FULL of stuff she had been programmed to believe that she needed (5 br house, boat, formal living/dining rooms, sat. TV...) even though it was just her (and me briefly) living there, and none of it got used.  I'd go in and disrupt the throw blanket on the chaise lounge in the front room.  Every day, a little fairy came in the night and carefully re-positioned it back to its original state.  How much of that crap did she REALLY need?

 

I don't think a lot of people realize it, but they've been programmed to have kid(s).  And to many people, they are possessions, not young people.  I think my own folks were that way.  They went to school, started their careers, found a spouse, got married, had kids, got a mortgage....  And that's pretty much where the fun stopped at our house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twisties
On 2/6/2019 at 8:16 AM, RecentConvert said:

There are means to address the above.  As a devout carnivore (I don't eat many vegetables), I also know that the vegetarian diet is far more efficient that a carnivorous diet.  Probably a factor of 3-4 times as efficient, maybe more. 

 

A recent study concluded that a vegan diet is less efficient than a balanced omnivorous diet... primarily because in most of the world livestock and poultry are grazed essentially in the wild... grass-fed if you will.  Exclusion of these sources of nutrition increase reliance on agriculture with it's reliance on conversion of land use and inputs of energy and water... and sometimes fertilizer, pesticides, etc.  Likely their conclusions would not apply well in the developed world where feed-lots and grain-fed poultry are the norm.  But the study was world-wide, and makes one think a bit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stir

Our politicians whirl around looking for the global boogey man.  Climate change, rain, conservatives and population are cited as the drivers of decline.  To this end, they look to tax the population to enact the programs which they think will deter and deflect the problems.  However, none of these things are really of that magnitude that will destroy the earth.  No, man's destruction will arise at the smallest level.  I see with more regularity, articles concerning insect population declines.  

Bee colony collapse is very real.  My father is an apiarist (bee keeper).  He's seen problems in his local populations. Now insects are projected to be extinct within 100 years.  What does a world without insects and bees look like?  Radically different.  

Plants, that depend on bee pollination, go extinct.  That's most flowering plants.  Article after article ponder what is causing this decline.  Is it pesticides?  That may contribute but from where I see it, it's the radio waves.  As 5G rolls out, the pressure on insects will increase.  You can find companies that use WiFi frequencies to eradicate pests; proudly.  Well, RF doesn't discriminate.  5G requires that a 5G transmitter be placed every 400 feet or so.  Almost every home has a wifi transmitter.  These are killing the bugs.  I really don't see many bees around the property any more.  We used to have several active hives on the property.  Haven't seen them in 10 years.  When the insects are gone, earth's population will take care of itself.

As to multiple children, it's the quality of child that matters.  Having raised three boys, I've done my job.  The oldest will be working on his Masters in Economics.  The middle one is studying Applied Math at UT and the youngest is studying physics as UCSD.  We can't raise enough quality children.  Those of you who opted out, great.  But when society finances the least intelligent of us to breed, that is a recipe for disaster.  For me, Idiocracy is a documentary.  Give a welfare mom a check.  For each child she bears, beyond 1, cut that check.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEWKS
15 hours ago, Whip said:

I love bees

 

Yes except, when they fly into & down your Stitch's collar! :classic_ohmy: The ensuing rolling breakdance was just plain embarrassing. :facepalm: :grin:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream
5 hours ago, TEWKS said:

 

Yes except, when they fly into & down your Stitch's collar! :classic_ohmy: The ensuing rolling breakdance was just plain embarrassing. :facepalm: :grin:

 

Or you see one crawling on the INSIDE of your faceshield,....."shiver":jaw:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEWKS
4 hours ago, Living the Dream said:

 

Or you see one crawling on the INSIDE of your faceshield,....."shiver":jaw:

Skip to the five minute mark in this one. :grin: 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream

Ninja Jim got stung!!!!  Ouch!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BarnRat
On 2/5/2019 at 9:57 AM, realshelby said:

In my opinion, over population is the Worlds number one, biggest, most dangerous problem. 

 

I agree.  One billion people, I think, is the perfect number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Palin
1 hour ago, BarnRat said:

I agree.  One billion people, I think, is the perfect number.

 

Without the billion part...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tallman

How about urban relocation program?

Anyone living in a SMSA larger than 300,000 will be dispersed to nearby

Federal Land with a land grant of 10 acres. Tax incentives for solar and no sewer.

Build solar farms to supply/supplement.

Let them all work from home.

But, you have to either/or/an garden/greenhouse production

of X% vegetables/nutrients.

Bee hives, goats as options.

Condensation process to supplement water needs.

Tax incentives to move, maintain domicile and roadways.

Roadways for the area will have machines and materials available

but up to them to maintain.

Sensible high speed rail or vehicle tube connections to reduce air passenger miles.

Free HBO, and high speed internet.

That will guarantee a maximum voluntary participation.

And a Startledbucks on every corner for the GS riders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Palin
1 minute ago, tallman said:

How about urban relocation program?

Anyone living in a SMSA larger than 300,000 will be dispersed to nearby

Federal Land with a land grant of 10 acres. Tax incentives for solar and no sewer.

Build solar farms to supply/supplement.

Let them all work from home.

But, you have to either/or/an garden/greenhouse production

of X% vegetables/nutrients.

Bee hives, goats as options.

Condensation process to supplement water needs.

Tax incentives to move, maintain domicile and roadways.

Roadways for the area will have machines and materials available

but up to them to maintain.

Sensible high speed rail or vehicle tube connections to reduce air passenger miles.

Free HBO, and high speed internet.

That will guarantee a maximum voluntary participation.

And a Startledbucks on every corner for the GS riders.

 

Only a city dweller would think that is a good idea. Privatize the public land, no way!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joe Frickin' Friday
On 2/11/2019 at 11:33 AM, Stir said:

Plants, that depend on bee pollination, go extinct.  That's most flowering plants.  Article after article ponder what is causing this decline.  Is it pesticides?  That may contribute but from where I see it, it's the radio waves.  As 5G rolls out, the pressure on insects will increase.  You can find companies that use WiFi frequencies to eradicate pests; proudly.  Well, RF doesn't discriminate.  5G requires that a 5G transmitter be placed every 400 feet or so.  Almost every home has a wifi transmitter.  These are killing the bugs.  I really don't see many bees around the property any more.  We used to have several active hives on the property.  Haven't seen them in 10 years.  When the insects are gone, earth's population will take care of itself.

 

What do you make of Australia being free of colony collapse disorder (CCD), despite the widespread use of cell service? This article points to a variety of factors that may be interacting to wipe out honeybees, but it says that the people who study CCD don't believe cell phones are involved.   The one study that seems to have ignited concern about cell phones vs. bees doesn't appear to be very large or rigorous (4 hives with cordless phone bases in them, 16 without); it's difficult to draw any strong conclusions from it. Moreover, it didn't involve cell phones at all (just cordless landline phones), contrary to what the initial media reports claimed.   From the plot here, it sure looks like honeybees have been on the decline for a long time before CCD was identified. 

 

FWIW, even if the crops don't fail soon from lack of pollination, eventually we'll run into problems with peak phosphorus.  This is a critical component of industrial fertilizers that makes large-scale agriculture so productive.  There's only so much phosphorus to be mined; there is, as yet, no substitute, and it's all slowly being pissed away into the oceans.   At some point we will have used up all of the easy-to-mine ore, and then food prices will start to rise.  Eventually we'll need to find a way to get phosphorus out of the ocean, but it sure looks like that's going to be really expensive.  At that point food will start to get very scarce...and so will people.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joe Frickin' Friday
On 2/7/2019 at 11:04 PM, Twisties said:

 

A recent study concluded that a vegan diet is less efficient than a balanced omnivorous diet... primarily because in most of the world livestock and poultry are grazed essentially in the wild... grass-fed if you will.  Exclusion of these sources of nutrition increase reliance on agriculture with it's reliance on conversion of land use and inputs of energy and water... and sometimes fertilizer, pesticides, etc.  Likely their conclusions would not apply well in the developed world where feed-lots and grain-fed poultry are the norm.  But the study was world-wide, and makes one think a bit.

 

AIUI, this is why goats are so popular around the world: they will eat (and thrive on) any plant that's even remotely edible, so you can raise herd of goats even on the sparse wild vegetation in semi-arid zones.

 

Wanna save the world?  Eat less beef and more goats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEWKS
1 hour ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

Wanna save the world?  Eat less beef and more goats.

 

y3GfuJd0_400x400.jpg

 

:grin:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream
1 hour ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

Wanna save the world?  Eat less beef and more goats.

 

 

Nah, Lamb, I don't know why lamb has not caught on as a regular meat here in the States,....overseas, it's on damn near every corner.  Mmm, mmm good.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEWKS

Agree, Lamb cooked right is pretty darn tasty! :thumbsup:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stir
8 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

What do you make of Australia being free of colony collapse disorder (CCD), despite the widespread use of cell service? This article points to a variety of factors that may be interacting to wipe out honeybees, but it says that the people who study CCD don't believe cell phones are involved.   The one study that seems to have ignited concern about cell phones vs. bees doesn't appear to be very large or rigorous (4 hives with cordless phone bases in them, 16 without); it's difficult to draw any strong conclusions from it. Moreover, it didn't involve cell phones at all (just cordless landline phones), contrary to what the initial media reports claimed.   From the plot here, it sure looks like honeybees have been on the decline for a long time before CCD was identified. 

 

FWIW, even if the crops don't fail soon from lack of pollination, eventually we'll run into problems with peak phosphorus.  This is a critical component of industrial fertilizers that makes large-scale agriculture so productive.  There's only so much phosphorus to be mined; there is, as yet, no substitute, and it's all slowly being pissed away into the oceans.   At some point we will have used up all of the easy-to-mine ore, and then food prices will start to rise.  Eventually we'll need to find a way to get phosphorus out of the ocean, but it sure looks like that's going to be really expensive.  At that point food will start to get very scarce...and so will people.  

 

 

I looked at a cell coverage map of Austrailia.  It’s 99% clear of any coverage.  If a company claims that 900mhz kills insects, and 900mhz is one of the frequencies that cell phones use, I think someone needs to take a look at it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Palin
On 2/13/2019 at 5:05 PM, Living the Dream said:

 

 

Nah, Lamb, I don't know why lamb has not caught on as a regular meat here in the States,....overseas, it's on damn near every corner.  Mmm, mmm good.

 

Lamb is tasty, but sheep are very destructive to the environment, when they eat they pull plants out of the ground rather than biting them off like cattle. That's one of the reasons this area changed from being sheep country to cattle country. A gummint program in the 40s to replace sheep with cattle because they were destroying the forests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream
32 minutes ago, Bob Palin said:

 

Lamb is tasty, but sheep are very destructive to the environment, when they eat they pull plants out of the ground rather than biting them off like cattle. That's one of the reasons this area changed from being sheep country to cattle country. A gummint program in the 40s to replace sheep with cattle because they were destroying the forests.

 

 

Sooo, is it better to have farting cows or grass pulling sheep (they really don't though, just close to the ground)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Palin
2 hours ago, Living the Dream said:

 

 

Sooo, is it better to have farting cows or grass pulling sheep (they really don't though, just close to the ground)?

 

Not my area of expertise, just repeating what I was told by the park rangers. In any case they clip new trees (and some other plants) too closely for them to survive apparently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twisties

I think somebody got my goat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gordiet

😂Total BS! Tell that to the welfare people that have 5,7,8, kids that are wanting more because it increases their monthly welfare check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De
On 2/13/2019 at 6:05 PM, Living the Dream said:

Nah, Lamb, I don't know why lamb has not caught on as a regular meat here in the States,....overseas, it's on damn near every corner.  Mmm, mmm good.

 

There is a reason you have mint relish on the side for any lamb dish.  To cover up that nasty meat's flavor.

 

Actually it is interesting that the lamb I've eaten in France was very mild and tasty.  There must a feed or breed difference between the EU and US.   Every time I have tried lamb in the States it makes me want to hurl!.  Must be a clandestine plot by the beef lobby to protect their share of the market.  So for now the US beasts stay in the nasty stinky category for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Living the Dream
48 minutes ago, Paul De said:

 

There is a reason you have mint relish on the side for any lamb dish.  To cover up that nasty meat's flavor.

 

Actually it is interesting that the lamb I've eaten in France was very mild and tasty.  There must a feed or breed difference between the EU and US.   Every time I have tried lamb in the States it makes me want to hurl!.  Must be a clandestine plot by the beef lobby to protect their share of the market.  So for now the US beasts stay in the nasty stinky category for me.

 

You need to frequent a better restaurant,....Lamb pops for appetizer and then lamb for the main meal makes the Dream a happy fatty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

Haha it isn’t like I tried it once and gave up. My wife likes it so I have tried it several times at high end restaurants,  and made it a few times at home from quality purveyors of meat. With the exception of the France experience I find US produced lamb is nasty tasting.  Mint relish doesn’t even hide that aweful flavor.   Worse than swap buck venison!  YRMV.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×