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R1150RT Fuel pump bad?


rick56

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I have an 02 R1150RT. I bought it last March it has 17,517 showing on the odometer. I doubt that is true milage. Two weeks after I bought it my output shaft splines stripped off. New clutch and tramsmission $4000 at a dealer. The battery went bad late last year. I replaced it. Someone on here said to pull the #5 fuse to relearn the trottle position. The fuses are not numbered. How do I tell which one is number 5? The bike had been running just fine. But now it just cranks and will not start. Then about a week ago it started fine. I rode 10 miles. And now it just cranks and wont start again? I checked spark, its ok but the spare is orange not blue? There is about half a tank of fuel. I suspect the fuel pump? Also, why did BMW put the pressure regulator in a place where you have to remove the transmission case to access it? I just love how BMW requires special MoDiTec units to trouble shoot or pressure gauges. I have an automotive one but I don't think it will work on this bike? I have owned closed to fifty bikes, this was my first BMW and my last. I can't believe how unreliable they are. And if you take it to a dealer they charge you a fortune. Sorry if I don't sound positive. But this bike is way over engineered and too costly to own. I am retired. But it looks like I'll need to go back to work just to earn enough to fix it and sell it. Buyers remorse, I should have saved my money. I am not impressed with BMWs. I does ride nice, but since it is so unreliable I now am not confident to take it on a long ride. I guess these bikes are targeted to guys with six figure incomes? Too costly for an average Joe.

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1 hour ago, rick56 said:

I have an 02 R1150RT. I bought it last March it has 17,517 showing on the odometer. I doubt that is true milage. Two weeks after I bought it my output shaft splines stripped off. New clutch and tramsmission $4000 at a dealer. The battery went bad late last year. I replaced it. Someone on here said to pull the #5 fuse to relearn the trottle position. The fuses are not numbered. How do I tell which one is number 5? The bike had been running just fine. But now it just cranks and will not start. Then about a week ago it started fine. I rode 10 miles. And now it just cranks and wont start again? I checked spark, its ok but the spare is orange not blue? There is about half a tank of fuel. I suspect the fuel pump? Also, why did BMW put the pressure regulator in a place where you have to remove the transmission case to access it? I just love how BMW requires special MoDiTec units to trouble shoot or pressure gauges. I have an automotive one but I don't think it will work on this bike? I have owned closed to fifty bikes, this was my first BMW and my last. I can't believe how unreliable they are. And if you take it to a dealer they charge you a fortune. Sorry if I don't sound positive. But this bike is way over engineered and too costly to own. I am retired. But it looks like I'll need to go back to work just to earn enough to fix it and sell it. Buyers remorse, I should have saved my money. I am not impressed with BMWs. I does ride nice, but since it is so unreliable I now am not confident to take it on a long ride. I guess these bikes are targeted to guys with six figure incomes? Too costly for an average Joe.

Afternoon Joe

 

Sounds like someone knew the splines were about to strip so sold it before it failed.

 

17K is awful early for a spline failure but I have seen them fail at 20K so not far off. Unfortunately unless the root cause of the spline failure was repaired (not just spline shaft & clutch disk replaced) it will probably fail again in about same mileage.  If you really got an entire  brand new transmission than that might be enough of an  alignment change to prevent a future re-failure.  

 

On fuse #5-- That is the 5th fuse in from the L/H (shifter) side of the bike. Don't forget to do the 2 twist grip turns to full throttle with the key on (engine not started) after fuse re-install.

 

Your no start could be a fuel pump  issue (can you hear it run for a couple of seconds at key on?????).

 

With a yellow spark, if you are getting enough fuel (good fuel pump & pressure)  then the spark plugs should be wet with fuel after cold cranking & no engine fire-off. If the plugs are dry then definitely suspect a lack of fuel issue.

 

On the fuel pressure  regulator?--those never seem to fail unless leaking. You don't need all the special tools or even a gauge to test fuel flow as you can do a simple fuel return flow test as that shows IF you have  enough fuel flow at enough pressure.

 

To do that you need to disconnect the fuel return hose at the quick disconnect then hold the inner check valve open in the quick disconnect of the return hose coming from the rear of bike, then point that hose into a container, then run the fuel pump (you need to see a pencil sized stream of fuel coming out of that rear return hose). Fuel flow out of the return hose means that the pump can make enough flow at enough pressure to get by the 40+ psi pressure regulator. 

 

That orange spark is also telling you something (usually means a low battery during engine cranking) Try putting a volt meter across the battery posts  then crank the engine. If  cranking voltage is below 10v then suspect a low battery. A low battery not only weakens the spark but also reduces fuel injector squirt so it is a double whammy to engine starting.   

 

Have you tried holding the throttle twist grip at about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle opening THEN try starting (that gives it more fuel for starting) .

 

Also, most new BMW  1150 riders do not know about the hidden choke function on those bikes--  Put the choke ON, then move the choke lever even farther in the 'on' direction (it is spring loaded for this added cold starting position) so you will have to hold it there. (It really isn't a choke though so using the choke is the VERY SAME as holding the throttle twist grip more open. 

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your first BMW motorcycle. Unfortunately you bought before researching that model as  possible spline failure on the 2002 1150 is a well known issue & something to account for before purchasing that era BMW 1150.

 

Not all BMW boxer bikes  are bad, or expensive to own, & are actually easy to work on at home. But major issues are still major work so it really pays to do some preliminary research on the model that you intend to buy used.

 

The upside is--   once you get the nagging issues resolved then the 1150RT BMW is a real nice riding, & handling motorcycle that is very fun to ride.   

 

One more thing-- if that bike has a kisan signal minder installed (aftermarket turn signal relay with optional light flashing ability) then those things have a rather large continuous parasitic battery drain & can run the battery low just sitting for a week or two. If your bike has one of those then you should either keep the battery on a smart charger or ride it often. (or modify the Kisan to remove the battery drain) 

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I own a 2005 R1150RT-P and a 2004 R1100S, both bought used.  I didn't get maintenance records with either bike when I bought them.   Sierra BMW was able to provide some maintenance information on the R1150RT-P (which only had about 27,000. miles when I bought it 7 years ago).   

 

After buying them, the first thing I did was to change all fluids, oil and fuel filters, brake pads and tires as needed.  

 

I've never gotten more than 7 years life out of a lead-acid battery (in cars, motorcycles, or airplanes).  Quite often mechanics will write the installation date on the battery. 

 

Another area that the R1150 / R1100 series has a maintenance problem are the stick coils, and the HES (Hall Effect Sensor) wiring.

 

If you are capable of doing normal maintenance yourself, you can save a lot of money.

 

Both bikes have been a joy to ride, with only  a few reliability problems.

 

The bottom line is when you buy a used bike that is more than 8 years old, or has a lot of mileage,  assume that you are going to have to do some maintenance when you get it.

 

Keith

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20 minutes ago, Keith_A said:

 

 

Another area that the R1150 / R1100 series has a maintenance problem are the stick coils, and the HES (Hall Effect Sensor) wiring.

 

Keith

 

Afternoon Keith

 

For future readers of this thread --  No stick coils in the R1100 bikes  &  no stick coils in the 2002/ & very early 2003 R1150 bikes.   Exception being late 1100S bikes.

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19 hours ago, rick56 said:

, this was my first BMW and my last. I can't believe how unreliable they are. And if you take it to a dealer they charge you a fortune. Sorry if I don't sound positive. But this bike is way over engineered and too costly to own. I am retired. But it looks like I'll need to go back to work just to earn enough to fix it and sell it. Buyers remorse, I should have saved my money. I am not impressed with BMWs. I does ride nice, but since it is so unreliable I now am not confident to take it on a long ride. I guess these bikes are targeted to guys with six figure incomes? Too costly for an average Joe. 

I think we can say that you have a pretty reliable bike, compared to newer ones.

 

On a bike that sat for such a long time, there is a possibility that the gas and pump turned bad. A dry fuel tank will make the pump rust, a filled tank will make the gas solidify like, so that there will be deposits like soap on the bottom of the tank, from the gas content, whatever they put inside it. I have seen it happening om a f650 that sat unstarted for many years in a row...

 

Besides that, this is what you need to do, in order to enjoy the bike:

 

- fix the HES plate, either replace or repair/refurbish

- fix the linkeage between the final drive and the drive shaft housing

- fix the intakes id they are worn, not a case on your low mileage bike

- replace the cables, again, not an issue on your bike

- regular maintenance every 10/20/30k kms

 

Dan.

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Hi,

I had the same issue with my bike. i determined it was the fuel pump through the great advice on this board by doing two things. The first was a bit of starter fluid in the air box and the bike fired right up for a few seconds. Next I checked continuity with an ohm meter on the plug running to the pump. The connection is near the quick disconnects for the fuel. I bought a pump from beemerboneyard with all the fittings to get it connected. Replacement wasn't difficult but be aware of how the fuel pump plate fits into to the tank. The tank comes off easy enough and then about an hour to hook up the new pump and internal fuel lines. and put back together. Immediately I could hear the pump work for a couple seconds with the key on. Additionally I replaced the stick coils as well because one was bad, I decided to replace both. I got those from https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/ which has the single coil you need as well as wires. Good luck with the pump and don't let the repairs put you off. This is my first beemer as well and I had the same feelings initially but I love the motor and handling. Let us know if we can be of any assistance. 

 

Joe

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I just want to thank all who replied to my post. I removed the #5 fuse and went through the proceedure for relearning the throttle position. No change, the bike just cranks and cranks. I am going ahead with plan B.

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9 hours ago, rick56 said:

I just want to thank all who replied to my post. I removed the #5 fuse and went through the proceedure for relearning the throttle position. No change, the bike just cranks and cranks. I am going ahead with plan B.

 

Morning rick56

 

I almost hate to ask what plan "B" is?

 

Have you listened for the fuel pump to run for a couple of seconds at key on?

 

Have you checked for signs of wet fuel on the spark plugs after engine cranking?

 

Are you still getting the orange spark?

 

Have you tried new sparkplugs if your sparkplugs look fuel fouled?

 

Have you opened the fuel tank cap then smelled the fuel in the tank? Old, stale, or severely degraded fuel has a unique pungent smell.

 

Your bike is repairable at home,  you just need to identify what it is missing for starting then address that area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Most likely it is the HES, if it was running, then not, then running and then not again.

But that could also lead to a bad coil.

 

What everyone needs to check when the bike is not starting, is this: 

 

  • fuel squirt when cranking
  • spark at spark plug/s ends when cranking; remember that the opposite spark plug needs to be screwed in the engine and connected to the wire, when testing, so that the circuit can close; otherwise, you will not have a spark.

If there is no fuel squirt but there is a spark, it could be the pump, the lines or the pressure regulator.

If there is no spark, it could be the coil fault.

 

If none, it most likely is the HES plate. It happens sooner or later on all bikes.

 

Dan.

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Poor old Rick 56 - so unlucky to have bought a duff bike and consequently now thinks that all BMW boxer bikes are crap.

They are not.

Most of the stuff and advice bandied abut by half-arsed bletherers on motorcycle forums is what is crap, not the bikes.  But thankfully you have on these pages the expert and vastly experienced commentaries from two really knowledgeable correspondents to this forum : Dirt Rider in the former Colonies and Dan Cata here in the Union of United European Countries.

Rule One with owning a 15-yr-old BMW bike is NEVER take it to a BMW dealer.  They'll rip you off mercilessly.

Rule Two is No Breaking Rule One.

Just calm down, take heart and swallow your now quite firmly entrenched negative feeling about these bikes and conscientiously and rigorously go through the check-steps that these two guys have offered.  They know exactly what they're talking about.  If you step through their recommendations one-by-one, not forgetting to check the Hall Effect Sensor ( HES ) the bike will work and subsequently be a joy to own - easy to maintain with a smidgeon of wrenching ability and safe and enjoyable to ride.I

 

It's just such a pity that you bought a "sat" bike that the Previous Owner was obviously keen to offload, knowing that the all-important transmission splined rod and clutch friction plate were on their way out.

Caveat emptor...

Easy for someone who hasn't lashed out the loot to say, but ever so true.

Buena suerte...

AL in s.e. Spain

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Mike Sawatske
On 2/4/2019 at 3:47 AM, rick56 said:

 I can't believe how unreliable they are. And if you take it to a dealer they charge you a fortune. Sorry if I don't sound positive. But this bike is way over engineered and too costly to own. I am retired. But it looks like I'll need to go back to work just to earn enough to fix it and sell it.

 

Rick,  I had many thoughts similar to yours after buying my R1150RT in 2015.  With perserverance (read stubborness) it has transformed my original dismay.  I even wrote a memo for my phone reminding me of the reasons it had to go, just so I didn't forget any whilst bemoaning my misfortune to anybody who wished to argue the point.

The mods which have made the difference: an AF-XiED fitment, removing the horrible jerkiness my bike had everywhere (I took a correct punt on this fix rather than matched injectors),

a brake servoectomy ( I thought the servo assistance just too over the top and it dumped me twice at parking speeds - once going forward and once pedalling backwards).  The bike now brakes just like a bike should ( I had no previous experience of ABS, so losing it doesn't bother me).

A new seat I acquired, very luckily and cheaply, helped the riding comfort a little but a laminectomy I had done on my back last year, plus the seat has fixed that for long day rides.

 

As a previous owner of 50+ bikes you would have the knowledge and expertise to overcome the problems, I'm sure, along with the help of info from this site.  It's a goldmine.

 

Mike

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On 2/8/2019 at 6:28 AM, dirtrider said:

 

Morning rick56

 

I almost hate to ask what plan "B" is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning DR,

 

Plan B seems to be exiting the forum, stage left. 

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1 hour ago, roger 04 rt said:

 

Morning DR,

 

Plan B seems to be exiting the forum, stage left. 

 

 

Morning Roger

 

Yes, I'm not sure what happened as it sounds like  he either found his issue & moved on, or possibly he didn't get the confirmation from the members here that (his)  BMW motorcycle  is a piece of expensive  junk.

 

I was kind of hoping that he would post back here telling us what was found wrong.

 

Or maybe it is just that  his bike is at the dealer waiting to get repaired?

 

In any case it would be nice to know the outcome. 

 

I guess it's just one of those mystery's in life that we will never find out.  

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  • 1 month later...
roger 04 rt

Fortunately most of us here recognize that when we ask for help, the responses that we get have taken other member’s time and effort. And that we each get invested in the outcome. 

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