Zumo & BaseCamp - What Goes Wrong and Why

[jfheath]

@lkraus contacted me about this document - so I thought I'd join up and post it here - that way I can respond to any queries.

 

It relates to all of the little problems that I encountered when I first got the Zumo 590, but much of it is also applicable to the Zumo models that have trip planner - the 590, 595, 395 and the later BMW models manufactured by Zumo eg Nav VI.

 

Please contact me if there's stuff that you find out that isn't included, or if my observations differ from your own.

 

Feel free to download it for your own personal use.  If you wish to pass the information on to friends, then please, it is better to give them a link to this page, rather than giving them a copy of yours.  That way, if it is updated, they get the most recent version.  If they are not a member of the forum, then there is a copy on Issuu here, which is a view only version. 

 

I hope you find it useful.

 

Hidden in the text at the end of Section 3 is a link to a series of YouTube videos which are designed to accompany the issues that I have raised in the document.  

That link is here:  13 BaseCamp Videos for PC - Issues when using with Zumo Trip Planner

 

 

 

[Bernie]

2 hours ago, jfheath said:

@lkraus contacted me about this document - so I thought I'd join up and post it here - that way I can respond to any queries.

 

It relates to all of the little problems that I encountered when I first got the Zumo 590, but much of it is also applicable to the Zumo models that have trip planner - the 590, 595, 395 and the later BMW models manufactured by Zumo eg Nav VI.

 

Please contact me if there's stuff that you find out that isn't included, or if my observations differ from your own.

 

I hope you find it useful.

Z590 & BC - All.pdf

Good morning John.

Thank you very much for joining this forum and for posting a link to your newest version of your manual.

I also would like to apologize for posting or sharing your manual without asking for your permission. A friend of mine, that happens to be a ST rider send it to me a while back, and I was just not thinking it would cause any harm.

I am very impressed with your manual and I believe it should be included with every Zumo or Navigator. The same goes for the manual written by Ed Conde, from the New England Riders Group.

New England Riders

I also firmly believe that Garmin does not realize the full potential of the Zumo/Navigator units, combined with their BaseCamp routing software. 

As for the differences between the Zumo 590 and the Nav VI, there are a few. Mostly it is the screen layout and some of the commands are using different names. I used to own a Zumo 590, before upgrading the bike and buying a Nav VI.

The overall operation is very similar, but if there is a need for it, I could send you some of the screen pictures or commands that  are different between the two models.

[marcopolo]

I would simply echo some of Bernie's comments.  Your manual is very well done, and very useful.  Thanks for doing this.

[Indy Dave]

And I would keep the echo going, what a enlightening manual you've put together! Thanks you for sharing!

[lkraus]

This needs to be a "sticky" of some sort. Does the Invision software allow that?

[jfheath]

Thanks for the comments.  I've put a couple of other links on Post#1:

• A link to the same document on Issuu - (Not downloadable)
• A link to a series of 13 short BaseCamp videos to accompany the document

The video link is also a clickable link on the last page of section 3 in the document itself.  This isn't a BaseCamp 'How To' reference - there are plenty of those around much better than I could create - but these relate specifically to the issue of preparing routes for use with the Zumo Trip Planner units.

[jfheath]

6 hours ago, Bernie said:

Thank you very much for joining this forum and for posting a link to your newest version of your manual.

I also would like to apologize for posting or sharing your manual without asking for your permission. A friend of mine, that happens to be a ST rider send it to me a while back, and I was just not thinking it would cause any harm.

 

No problem Bernie, and thanks for the apology. 

 

This document is for sharing and was written to help address a lot of misunderstandings that I have read on various forums.  But it is not an official manual, and it is based entirely on my research, experimental routes, my experiences and in some cases my assumptions.  As such it has to be treated with the suspicion that I hope you would treat anything obtained from the internet!  

 

If people download it from specific known links, then they can be made aware of the conditions that apply to their download, and also to any updates or any corrections to errors of fact.   All I have to do is update the file and upload it to the places I have published it - 4 of them now !

[Bernie]

John, I am glad you continue to work on it and will attempt to keep it current. 

Thank you!

Do you have something similar for the 660 guys? Just asking as you know that is/was a very popular model from Garmin. And I know that a lot of the stuff for the 590 is totally out of place for the 660’s. 

[jfheath]

5 hours ago, Bernie said:

John, I am glad you continue to work on it and will attempt to keep it current. 

Thank you!

Do you have something similar for the 660 guys? Just asking as you know that is/was a very popular model from Garmin. And I know that a lot of the stuff for the 590 is totally out of place for the 660’s. 

 

Not as detailed as the one for the 590.  There were a lot of people having issues with the 660 at one point - particularly not understanding its behaviour when going off route; when setting a figure of 8 circuit and when selecting the option to navigate to the start.  Personally, I found it to be the most intuitive and predictable of the 3 varieties that I have owned out of the 550, the 660 and the 590.

 

However, I did do some investigation into the routing behaviour - at a time when there was a great deal of confusion about the various terms used by Garmin and everyone else, and when Basecamp was still having many problems on the PC.  So I defined my own terms to make the distinctions clear - and that may make the document a tad confusing. Things have changed now and the information in it is a bit out of date - but perhaps that is because I no longer have a 660 or a 550, and my head is full of the other stuff.

 

I believe that the 590 and Basecamp document relates pretty well to the 660 - the 590 behaves very much like the 660 if you plot a route with no shaping points, and you set the start point a little up the road.  But I now have no way of going back to check it out.

 

But if anyone who has not moved on from a 660 would like to take a look at it, to see if it is worth publishing, drop me a message and I'll send it on.

 

I'll send you a copy Bernie in case you are interested.

 

[jsmith]

First of all, a HUGE thank you for putting this together. Very, very helpful!!

 

Now my question (you had to know this was coming). I used to have a 550, but have moved up to a 396. When I use Basecamp, it still lists the 550 in the device dropdown, and its the first one, so if I don't notice, I end up changing an option for the 550 and not the 396 that I am using now. I have removed the 550 from my device list in Garmin Express, but it still comes up in Basecamp. Is there a way to remove it from Basecamp?

[dirtrider]

37 minutes ago, jsmith said:

First of all, a HUGE thank you for putting this together. Very, very helpful!!

 

Now my question (you had to know this was coming). I used to have a 550, but have moved up to a 396. When I use Basecamp, it still lists the 550 in the device dropdown, and its the first one, so if I don't notice, I end up changing an option for the 550 and not the 396 that I am using now. I have removed the 550 from my device list in Garmin Express, but it still comes up in Basecamp. Is there a way to remove it from Basecamp?

 

Afternoon jsmith

 

That is somewhat odd, any chance that your 396 has an SD card in it that came from the Zumo 550?  If so then maybe it somehow got renamed.

 

Or do you have another SD card in your computer that was in, or renamed to,  Zumo, or possibly that SD card has a folder in it named Garmin?

 

If your 396 has an SD card then maybe try removing it  to see if the Zumo 550 reference goes away.

 

BaseCamp should only find attached GPS devices but it can also find SD cards that is thinks are a GPS device (IF)  that SD card has a folder in it named Garmin. 

 

 

[jsmith]

28 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon jsmith

 

That is somewhat odd, any chance that your 396 has an SD card in it that came from the Zumo 550?  If so then maybe it somehow got renamed.

 

Or do you have another SD card in your computer that was in, or renamed to,  Zumo, or possibly that SD card has a folder in it named Garmin?

 

If your 396 has an SD card then maybe try removing it  to see if the Zumo 550 reference goes away.

 

BaseCamp should only find attached GPS devices but it can also find SD cards that is thinks are a GPS device (IF)  that SD card has a folder in it named Garmin. 

 

 

Thanks for the reply, dirtrider. There is no SD card in either the 396 or the laptop. If you go into Edit->Options->Device Transfer, I see the device dropdown. This shows both the 550 and 396 even when neither are connected.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, jsmith said:

Thanks for the reply, dirtrider. There is no SD card in either the 396 or the laptop. If you go into Edit->Options->Device Transfer, I see the device dropdown. This shows both the 550 and 396 even when neither are connected.

 

Afternoon jsmith

 

OK, I see what you are talking about.  THAT, is a good question, I'm not sure where that info is stored (might be in the GarminDevice.xml file).

 

When I return  home from my dirt outing I will see what I can find as to finding where the device info is stored.

 

 

[Bernie]

I am using BaseCamp Ver 4.8.4 for Mac computer. And under Preferences, and then Transfer tap, I have all of my old GPS units listed in BaseCamp.

But if you connect your current GPS, it will only let you transfer routes or information to the connected device.

So I don't believe this will cause any issues, at least not any that I have noticed over the last few years.

 

[jsmith]

22 hours ago, Bernie said:

I am using BaseCamp Ver 4.8.4 for Mac computer. And under Preferences, and then Transfer tap, I have all of my old GPS units listed in BaseCamp.

But if you connect your current GPS, it will only let you transfer routes or information to the connected device.

So I don't believe this will cause any issues, at least not any that I have noticed over the last few years.

 

Thanks Bernie! I got tripped up while following the instructions on how to ensure your routes are not recalculated upon transfer to your GPS, and when it didn't work I realized I had only made the config change to my 550 and not the 396, so thought there was a way to get rid of it. I guess I can ignore this now until I buy a new GPS. Thanks again!

[jfheath]

I am tuning into this thread with interest, but am away from my PC for a while. I will respond if there are still issues I can help with when I am back on line.  (This thing I am using now isn't up to the job really - it's taken 15 mins to write this !)

[JR356]

Thank You!

 

JR356

[jsmith]

Me again. I'm heading to Americade this weekend, and found some nice routes on gotourny.com. I downloaded them in .gpx format and imported them into Basecamp, and all looked good. I then transferred them to my Zumo 396 and it barfed. Ok, it didn't really barf, but it said it could not load the route. So I took another look at the routes in Basecamp and they appear to have a LOT of shaping points...hundreds...too many for the Zumo to handle, and no via points other than the start and end. So in Basecamp, I converted the route to a track, then from the track back to a route. This has cleared all of the shaping points, and leaves me with only a starting via point, an ending via point and a bunch of what I think you call ghost points. I then transferred it back to the Zumo and they seem to be ok...at least it imports ok and seems to look about right. So what's my question? Well, I have a few:

1. Is this the right way to handle this kind of situation? I'm winging it...

2. Assuming the resulting route is fine, I'm wondering what's going to happen when I go to use it. Specifically...

- I assume if I select the route, and choose to navigate to the start, all will be well. But what happens if I stop part way along the route and shut my GPS off. When it wakes back up, will it guide me to the next ghost point or just beeline to the end? Remember, there are no via points other than the start and end, and there are no shaping points, only ghost points

- what if I want to use one of the routes, but I don't want to navigate to the beginning? Can I just ride to some point along the route and start it?

 

If there is a better way to handle this, I'm all ears.

 

Jim

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, jsmith said:

Me again. I'm heading to Americade this weekend, and found some nice routes on gotourny.com. I downloaded them in .gpx format and imported them into Basecamp, and all looked good. I then transferred them to my Zumo 396 and it barfed. Ok, it didn't really barf, but it said it could not load the route. So I took another look at the routes in Basecamp and they appear to have a LOT of shaping points...hundreds...too many for the Zumo to handle, and no via points other than the start and end. So in Basecamp, I converted the route to a track, then from the track back to a route. This has cleared all of the shaping points, and leaves me with only a starting via point, an ending via point and a bunch of what I think you call ghost points. I then transferred it back to the Zumo and they seem to be ok...at least it imports ok and seems to look about right. So what's my question? Well, I have a few:

1. Is this the right way to handle this kind of situation? I'm winging it...

2. Assuming the resulting route is fine, I'm wondering what's going to happen when I go to use it. Specifically...

- I assume if I select the route, and choose to navigate to the start, all will be well. But what happens if I stop part way along the route and shut my GPS off. When it wakes back up, will it guide me to the next ghost point or just beeline to the end? Remember, there are no via points other than the start and end, and there are no shaping points, only ghost points

- what if I want to use one of the routes, but I don't want to navigate to the beginning? Can I just ride to some point along the route and start it?

 

If there is a better way to handle this, I'm all ears.

 

Jim

 

Afternoon Jim

 

What you did might work & it might not work. Unfortunately you won't really know until you ride the route & it goes crazy on you. 

 

Personally I wouldn't trust doing it that way as there  is  a good chance for failure at some point in the routing. (your route was truncated by what you did  but you really don't know if any important shaping points were eliminated in the truncating process)  

 

If you are going to go that way as far as eliminating excess shaping points then at least test the route before heading off.

 

To test-- if you have MapSource installed on your computer then all the better. Just connect you GPS to your computer then re-import the routes BACK into MapSource & see what they look like compared to the original route or track (track comparison is usually better). You 'can' re-import the route from your GPS back into Base Camp if you don't have MapSource installed  but MapSource seems to show the routing errors better.  

 

Personally, I almost never trust a route sent to me  as far as working correctly in MY GPS while riding, it will probably get me there but could very easily miss an important part of the route or miss those special roads.

 

If possible I always ask for a track to be sent as tracks don't change or lie (a track is a track is a track always). Then I open that track in Base Camp, then simply make my own route over the track using my pre-set parameters. (if I make my own route in BaseCamp  using a track as a guide then it is almost always as solid performing route.   (you can use a supplied route to make your own route  by simply changing the original route to a different color then making your route over the supplied route).

 

 

 

 

[Bernie]

55 minutes ago, jsmith said:

Me again. I'm heading to Americade this weekend, and found some nice routes on gotourny.com. I downloaded them in .gpx format and imported them into Basecamp, and all looked good. I then transferred them to my Zumo 396 and it barfed. Ok, it didn't really barf, but it said it could not load the route. So I took another look at the routes in Basecamp and they appear to have a LOT of shaping points...hundreds...too many for the Zumo to handle, and no via points other than the start and end. So in Basecamp, I converted the route to a track, then from the track back to a route. This has cleared all of the shaping points, and leaves me with only a starting via point, an ending via point and a bunch of what I think you call ghost points. I then transferred it back to the Zumo and they seem to be ok...at least it imports ok and seems to look about right. So what's my question? Well, I have a few:

1. Is this the right way to handle this kind of situation? I'm winging it...

2. Assuming the resulting route is fine, I'm wondering what's going to happen when I go to use it. Specifically...

- I assume if I select the route, and choose to navigate to the start, all will be well. But what happens if I stop part way along the route and shut my GPS off. When it wakes back up, will it guide me to the next ghost point or just beeline to the end? Remember, there are no via points other than the start and end, and there are no shaping points, only ghost points

- what if I want to use one of the routes, but I don't want to navigate to the beginning? Can I just ride to some point along the route and start it?

 

If there is a better way to handle this, I'm all ears.

 

Jim

Good afternoon, Jim!

Making a route from a track, in my experience does not work in the real world. Since you only have a starting and ending point, anytime you get off the route, it will recalculate and make a straight line between the start and end.

If you get a route from another source, you should first make a duplicate in BaseCamp. Then recalculate the duplicate route. Change its color and then compare the 2 routes. If they are identical, you can upload the route to your GPS. Then you can import it and use it. If the 2 routes don't match, alter the duplicate route by dragging or inserting sections into the route until they match.Then transfer the modified route to your GPS. 

You can have around 125 shaping points between each WayPoint, the Starting and Ending Points are WayPoints.

One other thing that could have gone wrong is that your Activity preference is set for Car instead of Motorcycle, or if the route you received was made for Car, instead of Motorcycle. You may get a error if you import a Car Route into a 396 GPS, if it is set for Motorcycle. Also you will get a error notice if the route was made on a different version map then what is installed on the GPS. Recalculating the route in your BaseCamp should correct that error.

One possible solution to help you out, would be to use the Track that you created from the route. Transfer the track to your GPS, then look in your Track App and open the track. You then can select the track to show on the map and you can change its color from Black to possible Light Green. This will show the track on the map and when you run your route, the 2 (Track and Route) will be overlapped on top of each other. It will be easy for you to see if your route (Magenta color) turns in a different direction then your Track(Light Green) at intersections.

You are welcome to send me a PM with the link for the route.

 

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Good afternoon, Jim!

Making a route from a track, in my experience does not work in the real world. Since you only have a starting and ending point, anytime you get off the route, it will recalculate and make a straight line between the start and end.

If you get a route from another source, you should first make a duplicate in BaseCamp. Then recalculate the duplicate route. Change its color and then compare the 2 routes. If they are identical, you can upload the route to your GPS. Then you can import it and use it. If the 2 routes don't match, alter the duplicate route by dragging or inserting sections into the route until they match.Then transfer the modified route to your GPS. 

You can have around 125 shaping points between each WayPoint, the Starting and Ending Points are WayPoints.

One other thing that could have gone wrong is that your Activity preference is set for Car instead of Motorcycle, or if the route you received was made for Car, instead of Motorcycle. You may get a error if you import a Car Route into a 396 GPS, if it is set for Motorcycle. Also you will get a error notice if the route was made on a different version map then what is installed on the GPS. Recalculating the route in your BaseCamp should correct that error.

One possible solution to help you out, would be to use the Track that you created from the route. Transfer the track to your GPS, then look in your Track App and open the track. You then can select the track to show on the map and you can change its color from Black to possible Light Green. This will show the track on the map and when you run your route, the 2 (Track and Route) will be overlapped on top of each other. It will be easy for you to see if your route (Magenta color) turns in a different direction then your Track(Light Green) at intersections.

You are welcome to send me a PM with the link for the route.

 

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

A track contains way more the just a starting & ending point, there are any number of points on the track depending on how your GPS is set up to drop points along the track or depending on how many points are added when track is hand built.

 

The below is a simple 42 mile track that contains 26 points including the beginning & end.  

 

That is the basic problem of making a route from a track as it usually ends up with too many points so some get truncated in order to turn it into a routable route that a normal GPS will accept.

 

 

[Bernie]

22 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Bernie

 

A track contains way more the just a starting & ending point, there are any number of points on the track depending on how your GPS is set up to drop points along the track or depending on how many points are added when track is hand built.

That is correct DirtRider, the problem occurs when you take a Track in BaseCamp and convert it into a Route.

At that moment BaseCamp will create a Route with only 2 Points (Start & End).

Most Zumo GPS's will handle a Track with 1000's of points, but when you have BaseCamp or your GPS convert the Track into a Route it removes all points, except the Start and the End.

28 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

That is the basic problem of making a route from a track as it usually ends up with too many points so some get truncated in order to turn it into a routable route that a normal GPS will accept.

That is why you can't convert a Track into a useful Route. But you can convert a good Route into a Track, then use it to display on the GPS Map to see which way you should go. Of course you will not get any directions or other routing information.

This is why I suggested to transfer the Route and the Track to the GPS. Then you can have both displayed on the Map and use the Track to keep on your Route. This eliminates problems with GPS units recalculating the Route un-authorized.

 

 

[jsmith]

Bernie and dirtrider, thank you both for your help!

 

It really didn't feel like a stretch to convert a track to a route and use it. But when I read your posts and zoomed in closer on the route, its garbage. Goes to places it shouldn't...has u-turns all over the place...backtracks. Ugh! So I guess I should only be using the track as a template, and creating my own routes on top of it. <sigh> Thanks again.

 

Jim

[Bernie]

1 minute ago, jsmith said:

So I guess I should only be using the track as a template, and creating my own routes on top of it.

That would be the safest method, to make a route to match your GPS.

 

[jfheath]

Starting with a track is not a good way to share a route.

 

Trip planner has a limit on via points (30) and shaping points between via points (100 i think). Converting a track to a route will exceed one of these.

 

Typically for me, a well planned route will have maybe 6 via points separated by  a handful of shaping points.

 

I have 2 practical suggestions for this scenario.

 

1 recreste the route in Basecamp.  

Load in the gpx track and then start a new route using motorcycle profile with the same start and end point.  Use the rubber band tool to drag new points on the route to match the track.  Hint - place them a mile or so after key junctions.  Then review your route to make sure that points lie on the road and not up side streets.

You may wish to change some points to via points and some to shaping points.

Then transfer the route to the zumo.  Not the track.

 

2 convert the track to a route

 

You now have a start and end and hundreds of intermediate points.  Select the route to get the list of points.  Highlight all of them except start and end, right click and change them all to shaping points.

Now carefully pick a few points and change them back to Via points.  Name them sensibly.  These willl be the ones that appear in the list of next destinations when you first start the route.

Now you have a workable route.  Go to edit / Options / device transfer and select Strip Shaping points.

Make sure the other options are unticked.

Make sure your Zumo is in motorcyle mode and set the nav preferences for auto recalculate to No, or prompted.

Then transfer the route.

The route map should be identical to the original route, but it will have no shaping points and only a few via points.

The route is held in place by ghost points  - which may match with the original gpx file.

The problem with this is that if the route recalcates, it will lose the original route and take you to the next via point. So in this case, the more vias, the  better - up to 30.  Thst is why i suggested turning auto recalc off.

 

Neither method is ideal.  The first is better, as you are creating a route from scratch in basecamp. Effectively tracing the track you have obtained. The second may fail if the gpx points from someone else dont lie exactly  on the roads on the zumo map.

[jsmith]

7 minutes ago, jfheath said:

Starting with a track is not a good way to share a route.

 

Trip planner has a limit on via points (30) and shaping points between via points (100 i think). Converting a track to a route will exceed one of these.

 

Typically for me, a well planned route will have maybe 6 via points separated by  a handful of shaping points.

 

I have 2 practical suggestions for this scenario.

 

1 recreste the route in Basecamp.  

Load in the gpx track and then start a new route using motorcycle profile with the same start and end point.  Use the rubber band tool to drag new points on the route to match the track.  Hint - place them a mile or so after key junctions.  Then review your route to make sure that points lie on the road and not up side streets.

You may wish to change some points to via points and some to shaping points.

Then transfer the route to the zumo.  Not the track.

 

2 convert the track to a route

 

You now have a start and end and hundreds of intermediate points.  Select the route to get the list of points.  Highlight all of them except start and end, right click and change them all to shaping points.

Now carefully pick a few points and change them back to Via points.  Name them sensibly.  These willl be the ones that appear in the list of next destinations when you first start the route.

Now you have a workable route.  Go to edit / Options / device transfer and select Strip Shaping points.

Make sure the other options are unticked.

Make sure your Zumo is in motorcyle mode and set the nav preferences for auto recalculate to No, or prompted.

Then transfer the route.

The route map should be identical to the original route, but it will have no shaping points and only a few via points.

The route is held in place by ghost points  - which may match with the original gpx file.

The problem with this is that if the route recalcates, it will lose the original route and take you to the next via point. So in this case, the more vias, the  better - up to 30.  Thst is why i suggested turning auto recalc off.

 

Neither method is ideal.  The first is better, as you are creating a route from scratch in basecamp. Effectively tracing the track you have obtained. The second may fail if the gpx points from someone else dont lie exactly  on the roads on the zumo map.

Thank you for the detailed reply! I agree the first method is cleaner, and I will know exactly what I'm getting, so that is the way I will go. It just feels like it doesn't need to be this complicated.

 

Jim

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, jsmith said:

Bernie and dirtrider, thank you both for your help!

 

It really didn't feel like a stretch to convert a track to a route and use it. But when I read your posts and zoomed in closer on the route, its garbage. Goes to places it shouldn't...has u-turns all over the place...backtracks. Ugh! So I guess I should only be using the track as a template, and creating my own routes on top of it. <sigh> Thanks again.

 

Jim

 

 

Evening Jim

 

If you want the best (most likely to 'not' have any issues route) then this is by far your best way to do it.

 

If I'm leading a  group & want zero routing errors, or need a guaranteed precise route, then I do make my own route over a supplied  track as that way it is as precise as I make it & I can place my after-turn indicator via point flags exactly where I want them.

 

On the other hand if I'm riding by myself & can live some routing errors I might do a quick conversion & live with the  errors (BUT, I usually ride with a Montana GPS so I usually run a track  underlying the route so if something goes wrong I always have the visible track to default to).

 

The group that I ride with ONLY trade tracks as tracks never change or lie no matter the routing program, mapping version,  or GPS  so the tracks are 'always' the same between all riders. Some just ride the tracks without any turn-by-turn info & others like myself make turn-by-turn routes from the tracks so I have distance to turn info, eta info, impending next turn, etc.

 

As a final check you can always re-import your route back into Map Source (or BaseCamp) then go over it at high detail level to verify that it has no points off the road or other obvious errors. (this is especially useful if your GPS automatically recalculates a route as it imports it)

 

Another little helpful thing is to break your routes up into smaller routes, like morning before lunch break, after lunch break, etc. You usually stop anyhow so just bring the next route section up as you leave your stop break. This way if you have a corrupt route section or other routing problems you don't lose the entire route, you just lose a smaller section of your overall route.

[jfheath]

7 hours ago, jsmith said:

Thank you for the detailed reply! I agree the first method is cleaner, and I will know exactly what I'm getting, so that is the way I will go. It just feels like it doesn't need to be this complicated.

 

Jim

No it shouldn't be.  But when you get a track instead of a route  it makes life harder for everyone.

I sometimes download routes from RIDE magazines website.  These are simple gpx files that have a handful of carefully selected key points.  The software or satnav calculates the route from those points, but the points are chosen to produce the correct tour no matter what satnav is used.  Now that is the way to share a route.

[vonkas]

On 6/5/2019 at 7:59 AM, dirtrider said:

 

 

Evening Jim

 

If you want the best (most likely to 'not' have any issues route) then this is by far your best way to do it.

 

If I'm leading a  group & want zero routing errors, or need a guaranteed precise route, then I do make my own route over a supplied  track as that way it is as precise as I make it & I can place my after-turn indicator via point flags exactly where I want them.

 

On the other hand if I'm riding by myself & can live some routing errors I might do a quick conversion & live with the  errors (BUT, I usually ride with a Montana GPS so I usually run a track  underlying the route so if something goes wrong I always have the visible track to default to).

 

The group that I ride with ONLY trade tracks as tracks never change or lie no matter the routing program, mapping version,  or GPS  so the tracks are 'always' the same between all riders. Some just ride the tracks without any turn-by-turn info & others like myself make turn-by-turn routes from the tracks so I have distance to turn info, eta info, impending next turn, etc.

 

As a final check you can always re-import your route back into Map Source (or BaseCamp) then go over it at high detail level to verify that it has no points off the road or other obvious errors. (this is especially useful if your GPS automatically recalculates a route as it imports it)

 

Another little helpful thing is to break your routes up into smaller routes, like morning before lunch break, after lunch break, etc. You usually stop anyhow so just bring the next route section up as you leave your stop break. This way if you have a corrupt route section or other routing problems you don't lose the entire route, you just lose a smaller section of your overall route.

This is what I found best with my recently deployed Zumo 396. My main aim is to travel as compact as possible - without a laptop. For quick & dirty track creation on the move, I use Easy Route (iPhone or iPad) and transfer the track via Smart Link to the Zumo. I then display the track on the main map. I don't bother importing it as a trip (route). If I need routing (voice prompted)  I use the Zumo map to plan a trip and simply put waypoints over  (part or all of) the displayed route (change colours to suit). Often I just use a start and end point. The route re-calculates randomly anyway so I mainly stick to the track. However in transit through suburbs and busy traffic it is often useful to have guidance by voice. In that case I trust the Zumo to do it's best (it mostly works). While stopping at a traffic stop, I can zoom out to see that I'm not deviating too much from the track and correct if need be - Zumo recalculates. Not perfect, but works for me (my premise: never trust a robot). It would be quite easy for Garmin to fix this mess with an option in Navigation settings like "lock in route".

[jfheath]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:04 AM, vonkas said:

This is what I found best with my recently deployed Zumo 396. My main aim is to travel as compact as possible - without a laptop. For quick & dirty track creation on the move, I use Easy Route (iPhone or iPad) and transfer the track via Smart Link to the Zumo. I then display the track on the main map. I don't bother importing it as a trip (route). If I need routing (voice prompted)  I use the Zumo map to plan a trip and simply put waypoints over  (part or all of) the displayed route (change colours to suit). Often I just use a start and end point.

 

That makes complete sense.    Since I use Basecamp, making a track of a route is very simple, and I export both to the Zumo and then have both displayed.  The Route overlays the track, so if you can see the track, I know I have gone off my original route.

 

On 9/7/2019 at 1:04 AM, vonkas said:

The route re-calculates randomly anyway so I mainly stick to the track.

 

I know why you would think this, but the recalculation is entirely predictable.  You can turn off automatic recalculation if you wish - that will stop it recalculating if you go off route - but can be a pain if you want it to recalculate if you want to get out of a town for example.  One key point is to make absolutely certain that your routing points are on the road you wish to take, and not up some side street.  You have to Zoom in as far as you can.  The commonest error here is to put the point ont he wrong side of a dual carriageway !

 

But my 590 and the 595 take into account other factors.  I assume that the 396 does the same.  One is if you have a smart phone connected which feeds weather and traffic information to your Zumo.  The Zumo can recalculate the route to avoid the issues.  It depends on how it is set up.

Another is TrafficTrends.  This is free information that I believe comes with every issue of Zumo maps.  It stores historical data about traffic on many of the roads in the map - and the time when the traffic flows freely and when it is more congested.  If you have fastest time as your calculation mode, then the fastest time can be affected by the time of day.  Follow a route on one day and it will navigate you exactly as planned.  Follow the route at 5pm on another day, and it will take you a completely different route - and it doesn't tell you that it has made any changes.  Turn off TrafficTrends !!

 

A third is the data that it stores on how you ride and the roads that you like to take.  I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I believe that if you normally pootle along at 25mph on a motorway, then after a few days the satnav will learn this behaviour and stop using motorways as the fastest route. (Extreme hypothetical example)  You can stop this from happening, but if you like to have the log files (as I do) then you lose those by turning the feature off.  But you can clear what it knows about the way you ride, and with that clear, it will take a few days to build up a new picture, so will not divert you based on historical riding styles.

 

As for locking in a route - It wouldn't be a sat nav if you did that.  It would be almost like having auto recalculate disabled.

 

But you do right in finding the way that works best for you.  As long as it helps you to get to where you want to be - and gets you there by your preferred route.

 

And remember - if you have shaping points and via points in your route (and they are displayed as flags and circles on the listed route description, then the satnav will never recalculate a route beyond the next one of those points.  THe only exception to this is if you go off route and rejoin the plotted magenta route AFTER the next shaping point - when it won't bother trying to take you back to it.  The problem with some mapping products is that the Zumo doesn't receive any intermediate points that it recognises as either Via Points or Shaping Points. So it simply navigates to the end point any way that it chooses.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, jfheath said:

 

That makes complete sense.    Since I use Basecamp, making a track of a route is very simple, and I export both to the Zumo and then have both displayed.  The Route overlays the track, so if you can see the track, I know I have gone off my original route.

 

 

I know why you would think this, but the recalculation is entirely predictable.  You can turn off automatic recalculation if you wish - that will stop it recalculating if you go off route - but can be a pain if you want it to recalculate if you want to get out of a town for example.  One key point is to make absolutely certain that your routing points are on the road you wish to take, and not up some side street.  You have to Zoom in as far as you can.  The commonest error here is to put the point ont he wrong side of a dual carriageway !

 

 

 

 

Morning  jfheath

 

I will only address a small specific part of your response above.

 

You can turn off automatic recalculation if you wish - that will stop it recalculating if you go off route-- This can't be used as a for-sure statment on all Garmin GPS devices.

 

Garmin GPS devices like the 550, 450, (that era/style) can & will automatically recalculate under some circumstances even if the automatic recalculation is turned off. (I'm not sure if it still holds true on newer Zumo type devices so a rider will have to test theirs).

 

On the Zumo 450, 550 there is a quirk where they can & will recalculate (even with auto recalculate turned off) if a route is ridden backwards over a previously traveled section. Like missing a turn then riding down the wrong road until you find a turnaround spot, then riding back out to re-enter the correct route. In riding that little part of the road backwards it can (not always will) cause an automatic recalculation.

 

This can also happen if a route it made that backtracks back over a previously ridden section in the opposite direction of original travel.

 

Kind of annoying as sometimes it does & sometimes it doesn't recalculate on a backtrack.

 

Back in the day when I rode with a Zumo  I got in the habit of simply stopping the route, then re-opening it any time I backtracked, just to prevent recalc issues. Not a big deal if by yourself as most riders  don't even realize that it was recalculated so it might just mis-route  to the next  major point. But if leading a ride it can really become a problem.

 

I currently ride using a Garmin Montana as that particular GPS  device  never changes anything by itself. The 'good', it never changes anything so if I put in a solid route it ALWAYS routes correctly no matter what. Bad news, if I put in a bad route it  never fixes it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jfheath]

That is a good point to make.  This document has been written specifically for the 590, and much of it also applies to the 595.  The 550 behaved very differently, and the 660 was very different, and a big improvement.

 

The 590 will also recalculate a route with autorecalc turned off.  I am not sue exactly when it does it, but at some point it may take into account your riding history, or modify your route due to traffic / time of day due to traffictrends being turned on.

 

As for backtracking / riding a route the wrong way, it is very difficult to know exactly what it is doing as the magenta line is shown on the map, albeit heading in the other direction.  You need to be in a car as a passenger with a detailed paper copy of your route, and with your attention focused on the satnav to really work out what it is doing.  It got me lost a mile from home - I mean, I knew precisely where I was. I couldnt work out where the satnav was trying to take me.  Had it skipped the last shaping point ?  Now that I had been backtracking, have i gone past previous shaping points so that they have now become the next ones to visit ?  That is what the 660 would do !

[lkraus]

On 6/4/2019 at 4:55 PM, Bernie said:

That is correct DirtRider, the problem occurs when you take a Track in BaseCamp and convert it into a Route.

At that moment BaseCamp will create a Route with only 2 Points (Start & End).

Most Zumo GPS's will handle a Track with 1000's of points, but when you have BaseCamp or your GPS convert the Track into a Route it removes all points, except the Start and the End.

That is why you can't convert a Track into a useful Route. But you can convert a good Route into a Track, then use it to display on the GPS Map to see which way you should go. Of course you will not get any directions or other routing information.

This is why I suggested to transfer the Route and the Track to the GPS. Then you can have both displayed on the Map and use the Track to keep on your Route. This eliminates problems with GPS units recalculating the Route un-authorized.

 

 

Bumping an old thread. I was looking for something else and found this discussion. It clicked with a recent thread on another forum, where Bernie posted a video link showing how to easily solve the problem of converting a track to a route.

 

This procedure works very well. The switch from your usual routing profile to Direct is necessary because only Direct creates intermediate shaping points automatically. Creating a route from a track in the other profiles only gives you a start and end point, which becomes a problem if your Zumo happens to recalculate the route.

 

Windows users will see a slight difference from the Mac version of Basecamp.  The number of new shaping points is a settings preference on the Mac, while the Windows version asks each time you start the conversion.  Also, the Windows version does not crash!

 

This technique would also be useful to quickly add a lot of shaping points to a new, minimally defined route, to really pin it down. 

[Bernie]

Good catch Larry. I had forgotten about this post.

Their is a lot to learn about BaseCamp and it has a lot potential. And a lot of hidden features.

After I found the above mentioned video, I found a post from 2016 on ADVrider, explaining this process.

Kinsley also used to use this technique to create routes with better stability, for the different events.

 

[chrisolson]

Admin comment:  jfheath feels certain parts of this topic need updating.  As the edit time has obviously expired, he initially hid the topic pending the update.

 

I have made it visable again while we are exploring appropriate means to accomplish the update.  The author will be posting an updated link in a new post.

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, lkraus said:

Bumping an old thread. I was looking for something else and found this discussion. It clicked with a recent thread on another forum, where Bernie posted a video link showing how to easily solve the problem of converting a track to a route.

 

This procedure works very well. The switch from your usual routing profile to Direct is necessary because only Direct creates intermediate shaping points automatically. Creating a route from a track in the other profiles only gives you a start and end point, which becomes a problem if your Zumo happens to recalculate the route.

 

Windows users will see a slight difference from the Mac version of Basecamp.  The number of new shaping points is a settings preference on the Mac, while the Windows version asks each time you start the conversion.  Also, the Windows version does not crash!

 

 

This technique would also be useful to quickly add a lot of shaping points to a new, minimally defined route, to really pin it down. 

Afternoon Larry 

 

This method sort of works & sort of doesn't.  (or better put, works with caution & verification)

 

For most tracks on  non congested roads with few road choices or few road type changes it will usually work OK. 

 

I have had it not work as intended when making a route from a track in  areas with many roads choices, or with better choice roads in close proximity to the track.  (seems to be no rhyme or reason as some will make a perfect route & other times I get a lot of off-route loops & short glitches)

 

The basic route will probably work to get you there  but with some side loops into subdivisions, off-route deviations for a short distance then back to route,  or other confusing routing. 

 

A good check is to zoom WAY in then verify that the route precisely follows the original track. Then (after making the route using DIRECT I switch back to my normal routing preference then run a re-calculation. If the route suddenly changes in a few places after re-calculation that is probably what will happen if you ride the route & for some reason your GPS re-calculates it.  (older Zumo's can still recalculate occasionally even with re-calculate turned off)

 

I usually prefer to just make a route from a track using my normal routing preference (as mentioned that only gives a starting & end point) but then go over the route & add in my own via points at the places that ( I ) want them (I can then make certain ones announced if I want the announcement for routing information or  guidance). 

 

Just a heads up for those that try this DIRECT method (especially if sharing the route between many riders)-- Completely verify before trusting the route to be true.     

 

 

 

 

[Bernie]

All very true @dirtrider. It is not my preferred way of making a route. The only way I have ever tried it is by selecting 200 or 400 shaping points. After creating the route in "Direct", I would switch my profile to "Motorcycling", with no exemptions. Then recalculate the route. After that I would zoom into the route and delete any shaping points in intersections or at branches of roads. Following the lead from Joseph Bryne's Video, I keep mainly points on straight section of roads. I also would make sure I had points at the beginning and end of a road, and maybe somewhere in the middle of it, if it was several miles long. It is just another process of making a route.

This process is really only needed if someone send you a Track, instead of a route. And it is one of 2 ways to convert a Track into a Route.

I still prefer to use the "Routing Tool" to create the route,  by just following the Track someone send me or a old track from my directory.

 

[jfheath]

The Zumo and Basecamp document that I attached to post #1 has been updated to include the specific variations of the Zumo 595 as well as the Zumo 590.  These two devices are very similar but I have discovered that they can behave quite differently in certain situations.  Because it is difficult to make changes to attachments on this site, if you would like the up to date copy please send me a private message with your email address.

 

It is still free - for your own personal use.  I'll send you the up to date copy as soon as the system emails me.

 

John

[Bernie]

Please send me a copy of the updated version of your manual. 

My email is echtbernie1@gmail.com 

Thank you, Bernie 

[lkraus]

I discovered today that John Heath has published many of his discoveries and experiences with the Zumo XT on the www.zumouserforums.co.uk forum. He explains a lot of the differences between the XT and other Zumos, as well as a  few bugs.  I was not able to read the posts until I logged in,  so you may need to register (free).  I think it is still a work in progress, and sometimes a little confusing to navigate in this format, but there is a ton of useful information for anyone with an XT.

Zumo XT and Basecamp - Everything That You Need to Know

 

EDIT Dec 6: I changed the link, John is sharing his discoveries on issuu.com. No registration is required and it's easier to navigate.

 

Also, the Zumo 595 version (99% applicable to the NAV V and VI) is posted here: Zumo 590 & 595 Route Planning with Basecamp

 

[jfheath]

You think it is difficult to navigate, huh ??  You should have tried putting it together  !   It was a nightmare.  The XT has so many different modes of operation that are interlinked.

 

It doesn't flow well if you try to read it from start to end.  But I've tried to make each section a single point of reference.  The trouble is, it is difficult to go back to a position of not knowing what I have found out - so any feeback about stuff that doesn't make sense would be welcome.   I thought i'd better get it out there since there has been a big gap since the last software update.  The number of times I worked out and tested exacty how the closest entry point feature worked .....  It changed at every software upgrade up to 5.90.  At least each change was an improvement.

 

My next job ?  Get my XT replaced.  It died last week.  Screen froze while riding, and would not restart after turning it off.  I have a refurbished exchange model waiting for me.

[lkraus]

I can only imagine the hours of work you've put in on this project.   I think that the zumouserforums software puts some limitations on how the information is presented.  Once I realized I needed to click "Contents" at the end of each section it worked much better.  

 

I've had  my 590/595 freeze-up a couple times.  Got it working by pulling the battery and holding down the power button for about ten seconds.  I guess that's not an option on the XT.

 

My XT will be arriving Thursday, so I'll be reading through all the material again after I have it in hand.  I've already had a few surprises just on the first pass.  Questions will come later.