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Front Crank Seal Leak—-HELP


ron c

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Evening Everyone,

I need some advice. 2004 R1150RT. 217k miles. My front crank seal is leaking. I've replaced the seal several times now using BMW pn 11 11 1 341 357. This is the correct number according to the MAXBMW parts fiche...... but it still leaks. I'm confident I'm not damaging the seal lip during replacement. I'm also confident the crank does not have a burr or damaged area that will damage the new seal. After the last failed replacement I read about “pre-shaping” the seal lip but didn't find a good explaination of what that means. The natural shape of the lip is to point outwards. Does “pre-shaping” mean the lip should point in towards the bowels of the motor? If that is what “pre-shaping” means and the lip should point in I will use a proper insertion sleeve. Does anyone have experience replacing this seal? Advice appreciated.

 

Regards, Ron C.

.

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Evening Everyone,

I need some advice. 2004 R1150RT. 217k miles. My front crank seal is leaking. I've replaced the seal several times now using BMW pn 11 11 1 341 357. This is the correct number according to the MAXBMW parts fiche...... but it still leaks. I'm confident I'm not damaging the seal lip during replacement. I'm also confident the crank does not have a burr or damaged area that will damage the new seal. After the last failed replacement I read about “pre-shaping” the seal lip but didn't find a good explaination of what that means. The natural shape of the lip is to point outwards. Does “pre-shaping” mean the lip should point in towards the bowels of the motor? If that is what “pre-shaping” means and the lip should point in I will use a proper insertion sleeve. Does anyone have experience replacing this seal? Advice appreciated.

 

Regards, Ron C.

.

 

Evening Ron

 

It depends on the seal as there have been a couple of different ones over the years. I don't know what the current seal iteration is as I haven't installed one on the 1150 in a few years.

 

You can sort of tell by looking at the seal design-- See the drawing below.

 

Also, make darn sure that the crankcase vent is open & allowing proper crankcase venting (vent is a timed vent through the rear of crankshaft & depends on rear seal installation position being correct)-- Did it start leaking AFTER a transmission repair (including new main rear seal) or start leaking after a new rear seal install? If rear outer seal is driven in too far & blocks vent hole then crankcase can over-pressure & force oil out of front seal.

 

VEbqjmj.jpg

 

 

 

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Good evening, Sir,.........always a pleasure to read and learn from your posts......

No, I haven't done anything to the rear crank seal. It is untouched from the factory. The CC vent is a 90 deg elbow with a hose going to the air box. I removed the hose from the elbow and easily blew thru the hose into the box. No restriction there. I inserted a ty-wrap into the elbow and into the motor at least 8 inches. No restriction there either.

The seal(s) I have received from the dealer, pn 11 11 1 341 357, look like the upper seal in your pic. I have not used an insertion sleeve so the lip is pointed out rather than in after

installation. I will correct that when the new seal arrives. I'll update the group when I have some miles on the new seal.

 

Thanks for your help.

Regards, Ron

 

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Good evening, Sir,.........always a pleasure to read and learn from your posts......

No, I haven't done anything to the rear crank seal. It is untouched from the factory. The CC vent is a 90 deg elbow with a hose going to the air box. I removed the hose from the elbow and easily blew thru the hose into the box. No restriction there. I inserted a ty-wrap into the elbow and into the motor at least 8 inches. No restriction there either.

The seal(s) I have received from the dealer, pn 11 11 1 341 357, look like the upper seal in your pic. I have not used an insertion sleeve so the lip is pointed out rather than in after

installation. I will correct that when the new seal arrives. I'll update the group when I have some miles on the new seal.

 

Thanks for your help.

Regards, Ron

 

Morning Ron

 

If your seal is like the upper seal shown (non preformed seal) then there was an old BMW service bulletin to install it dry (after forming seal lip in the correct direction of course) as the bulletin claimed that speeded up the seal seating in & sealing quicker.

 

Seals like the lower seal shown above using a garter spring should not be installed dry.

 

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Ron,

 

I think the pre-shaping (lip should point inward) is the missing ingredient with your previous installs. I've only done this once - about a year-and-a-half ago - but had good success (no leaks). It sounds like you've used the same seal that I did. The part I used was more like the upper half of DR's diagram, as well. The elastomer part of the seal was pretty stiff (brown colored), bonded to the outer steel cup.

 

As I recall, I think I made a mandrel out of pvc pipe - sized to the diameter of the crankshaft extension (maybe slightly bigger) - to pre-shape the lip inward. At the time, I was doing other stuff on the bike, so the pre-shaping mandrel probably sat in the seal for a day or two before I installed it. Also, I remember using some thin tape on the leading sharp edges and threads of the crankshaft to protect the seal during install. I did not use an insertion sleeve. Now, my install may have been slightly different than yours. At the time, I had the alternator mount/front cover off the bike. I first pressed the seal into the cover, and then installed the cover on the engine.

 

Wayne

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Good evening, Wayne,

Yes, it sounds like we're talking about the same seal. Did your bike need any run-in time until the seal sealed or did the seal work properly right from the start?

 

I'm sending mental positive waves to my bike just in case. Can't hurt.

 

Regards, Ron

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ron c

 

I have found a trick for installing that seal. An old 35mm plastic film can with the bottom cut away works great to get the lip in the right direction. Slide the forward side of seal onto the canister and that will put the lip pointing aft the right way and slide the canister with the lip pointing into the engine and then push canister on over the shaft and then pull canister off and seat the seal to it's bore. At that point as DR says leave it alone for 24 hours to let it set to its new position. Then you can start the bike and it should be fine. I had to do it twice myself until I figured out that the lip needs to point in towards the engine when installing on the shaft. The plastic canister works great.

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Thanks, SAS.

The film canister is exactly what I am planning on using. I have one in my shop standing at attention waiting for the seal to arrive.

 

Ron

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Hey Ron,

I don't recall that there was any "run-in" time for the seal to be effective (sorry), though I'm confident that I didn't start the bike for a number of days (maybe weeks) after I installed the seal, because I had plenty of other reassembly tasks. I think the 'waiting period" that DR and SAS mentioned is good advice to follow.

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Good evening, Wayne,

Yes, it sounds like we're talking about the same seal. Did your bike need any run-in time until the seal sealed or did the seal work properly right from the start?

 

I'm sending mental positive waves to my bike just in case. Can't hurt.

 

Regards, Ron

 

Should seal immediately with the lip facing the correct direction.

 

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AndyS,

 

It needs the time to sit so it will relaxe from the stretching. It is a lot of work to remove and replace it so just wait the time and all will be well.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Good afternoon everyone,

I installed the new front crankseal using a 35mm film canister as an insertion sleeve. The sleeve preshapes the seal lip so the lip points into the motor. No leaks after 100 mile ride. I’m confident the problem is resolved.

Thanks for the help.

Ron C.

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17 minutes ago, ron c said:

Good afternoon everyone,

I installed the new front crankseal using a 35mm film canister as an insertion sleeve. The sleeve preshapes the seal lip so the lip points into the motor. No leaks after 100 mile ride. I’m confident the problem is resolved.

Thanks for the help.

Ron C.

 

Afternoon Ron

 

Thanks for the follow up.  

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