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poodad

Final drive service - spline lube?

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poodad

For those of you who lube the final drive splines when you change the FD grease, what lube do you use? I see lots of recommendations for Honda 60 and Guard Dog moly paste - neither of which are currently available.

 

Also, where do you buy the 17mm lock nut? Beemer Boneyeard doesn't appear to carry it.

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Highway41

I use Honda M-77 Assembly Paste on both the splines and boot. I reuse the nut buying a new one from BMW for every other fluid change. A&S can send you one if there is no local dealer.

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bwpsg42

which locknut? I completed a lube, using guard dog, a couple weeks ago but have not been able to ride anywhere yet. I did not change any nut so I'm now concerned. The only nut I removed was the paralever nut.

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poodad
which locknut? I completed a lube, using guard dog, a couple weeks ago but have not been able to ride anywhere yet. I did not change any nut so I'm now concerned. The only nut I removed was the paralever nut.

I believe the BMW recommends it be replaced instead of re-used.

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bwpsg42

oh boy, better order a new one from Max. Thanks for the head's up

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Pappy35

Yeah. Same here. Which locknut? Are you talking about the lock nut that secures the aft end of the tension bar to the rear drive housing (BMW PN 07 11 9 904 670, FLANGE NUT, M10-10-ZNS3)?

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bwpsg42

thanks, I have the vid but completely missed anything about not reusing the nut. I have ordered a new one from MaxBmw.

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Pappy35

That's the one. I'm glad I saw this as I'll be doing the 12k service soon and, since my bike is 5 years old now (I bought it used this past April) I was planning to check the spline lube.

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MichiganBob

It doesn't look it but it is slightly oval rather than full circle. I remember Dirt Rider had the proper name for this type of fastener. When it's properly torque, the oval shape cinches to the bolt. Like some other bolts on the BMW, this is recommended as a one and done. It's cheap insurance -- why take a chance.

 

Ride safe, Bob

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Ozzyal

Noted , thanks guys . I would have missed this entirely .

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dirtrider
For those of you who lube the final drive splines when you change the FD grease, what lube do you use? I see lots of recommendations for Honda 60 and Guard Dog moly paste - neither of which are currently available.

 

Also, where do you buy the 17mm lock nut? Beemer Boneyeard doesn't appear to carry it.

 

Morning Poodad +all other posters in this thread.

 

I only have a couple of minutes before heading out this morning so this post will be short & to the point.

 

What bike are you working on?????????

 

Some 1200RT Hexhead used a torque prevailing nut + stand-alone washer on the bolt (BMW suggests nut replacement on these)

 

Some used a standard flanged hex nut with the bolt having Micro-Encapsulation locking compound on the BOLT threads (no locking nut). These bikes require a new Micro-Encapsulated bolt not a new nut.

 

The camheads that I have worked on have used the Micro-Encapsulated bolt with standard flanged nut.

 

So determine what YOU have on YOUR bike then replace either the bolt or the nut.

 

Or, I ususlly re-use the nut or the bolt (or both) at least once but use 262 (red) Loc-Tite on the bolt threads as a locking compound.

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poodad
For those of you who lube the final drive splines when you change the FD grease, what lube do you use? I see lots of recommendations for Honda 60 and Guard Dog moly paste - neither of which are currently available.

 

Also, where do you buy the 17mm lock nut? Beemer Boneyeard doesn't appear to carry it.

 

Morning Poodad +all other posters in this thread.

 

I only have a couple of minutes before heading out this morning so this post will be short & to the point.

 

What bike are you working on?????????

 

Some 1200RT Hexhead used a torque prevailing nut + stand-alone washer on the bolt (BMW suggests nut replacement on these)

 

Some used a standard flanged hex nut with the bolt having Micro-Encapsulation locking compound on the BOLT threads (no locking nut). These bikes require a new Micro-Encapsulated bolt not a new nut.

 

The camheads that I have worked on have used the Micro-Encapsulated bolt with standard flanged nut.

 

So determine what YOU have on YOUR bike then replace either the bolt or the nut.

 

Or, I ususlly re-use the nut or the bolt (or both) at least once but use 262 (red) Loc-Tite on the bolt threads as a locking compound.

 

Thanks for the info! My bike is a 2011. I'll have to take a look at what's on there today.

 

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Phlazm

Well I found my January project! Never knew about the bolt. I’ll have to look it up when I do the old oil head and see if that needs a new bolt too.

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MichiganBob

Good Evening,

 

Was chatting with a BMW mechanic today. He said they never replace the bolt or nut, just Loc-Tite them with blue. That surprised me. Said that it's just another way for the company to get into your pocket. From my way of thinking, considering what this bolt and nut do and the price for failure, it's worth the money. How would you find out if your model has the micro encapsulating compound or the torque prevailing nut. Would it be indicated on that year and model's microfische?

 

B

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dirtrider
Good Evening,

 

Was chatting with a BMW mechanic today. He said they never replace the bolt or nut, just Loc-Tite them with blue. That surprised me. Said that it's just another way for the company to get into your pocket. From my way of thinking, considering what this bolt and nut do and the price for failure, it's worth the money. How would you find out if your model has the micro encapsulating compound or the torque prevailing nut. Would it be indicated on that year and model's microfische?

 

B

 

Morning Bob

 

It is probably indicated on the parts diagram, BUT, those are not always correct & there could be running changes over a model run.

 

If your bike uses a micro encapsulated bolt then that should be evident by the remaining compound on the bolt threads & NO locking nut.

 

If your bike uses a torque prevailing nut then there would be no signs of micro encapsulating on the bolt & the nut would be a locking nut.

 

I'm surprised that your dealer admits to violating BMW recommended practices but using a Lock-Tite thread locker is perfectly adequate (in my opinion) as the bolt & nut is definitely re-usable as far as strength & function goes. Personally I would use a Red Lock-Tite on a bolt/nut that large & of that importance but a PROPER application of Blue would probably also work.

 

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MichiganBob

Good Morning DR, Do you use a torch, heat gun, or some other way to remove the red Lock-Tite? The red is pretty serious stuff, advertised as permanent, but nothing in life is (I'm feeling philosophical this morning)..

 

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dirtrider
Good Morning DR, Do you use a torch, heat gun, or some other way to remove the red Lock-Tite? The red is pretty serious stuff, advertised as permanent, but nothing in life is (I'm feeling philosophical this morning)..

 

 

Morning Bob

 

Red 'is' pretty permanent on smaller bolts unless heat is used but on a 10mm bolt/ with a stand-alone nut it will come loose without heat.

 

You can use Blue if you want but the threads on the bolt & in the nut must be perfectly clean & dry for Blue to be safely effective.

 

One of the issues in using Blue is IF the bolt is a micro encapsulated bolt then the old micro encapsulation should be removed in the nut contact area, that usually involves a rotary wire brush or something abrasive that also removes the bolt's Zinc or Phosphate coating in the thread area (resulting in a corroding bolt in the thread area).

 

It kind of comes down to how much importance you place on that bolt's long term retention. Some riders just re-use the old bolt & nut without using anything for a thread locker then continue life worry free.

 

 

 

 

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MichiganBob

Good Morning DR, I remember years ago when I rebuilt either my 71 75/5 or 81 RS that I did not realize that the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the tranny stretch and do not hold correctly. Sure enough on a trip, 3 of the 4 backed out. Stranded and had a real mess on my hands miles from home. Since then, I've tried to keep an eye on which bolts are one or a few times and then a thank you and bye bye.

Edited by MichiganBob

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dirtrider
Good Morning DR, I remember years ago when I rebuilt either my 71 75/5 or 81 RS that I did not realize that the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the tranny stretch and do not hold correctly. Sure enough on a trip, 3 of the 4 backed out. Stranded and had a real mess on my hands miles from home. Since then, I've tried to keep an eye on which bolts are one or a few times and then a thank you and bye bye.

 

Evening Bob

 

Big difference in bolt applications. TTY (torque to yield) bolts are torqued to a stretch or elongation so those are a one-use only bolt. (once they stretch they don't return to nominal length so need to be replaced)

 

Your BMW swing arm tension arm bolt is a 10mm (10.9) bolt that is long enough to retain torque without permanently stretching, the recommended max torque for a 10mm (10.9) bolt/nut is 75nm but the BMW torque spec for that bolt/nut is WAY under that so the bolt isn't torqued anywhere near deformation.

 

 

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Pappy35

This is true but another factor is the compressive stress on the clamped components. Since the final drive casing is aluminum and the bolt is presumably steel, one could very well crush the underlying materiel. The low torque limit, and the need for secondary retention (torque and then loctite or locking nut), suggests to me that clamping down the bolt to such a high value might have other unpleasant consequences. It's been a long time since I've calculated bolted-joint loads (I've worked gas-turbine engine stress analysis for many years) but this could be a contributing factor to that low max torque spec.

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dirtrider
This is true but another factor is the compressive stress on the clamped components. Since the final drive casing is aluminum and the bolt is presumably steel, one could very well crush the underlying materiel. The low torque limit, and the need for secondary retention (torque and then loctite or locking nut), suggests to me that clamping down the bolt to such a high value might have other unpleasant consequences. It's been a long time since I've calculated bolted-joint loads (I've worked gas-turbine engine stress analysis for many years) but this could be a contributing factor to that low max torque spec.

 

Morning Pappy35

 

While it is true that the final drive casting is an alloy (mostly aluminum) the paralever reaction link doesn't bolt directly to the aluminum casting ear. The final drive reaction ear contains a rubber bushing with a steel-center-sleeve molded into it so the paralever reaction link actually bolts to that thick walled steel sleeve in the center of the bushing.

 

Even so, the BMW service manual specs the bolt torque on that 10mm/10.9/ x 55mm long bolt/nut at 42mn & as mentioned above that is way below the max bolt/nut generic torque specifications for a 10mm/10.9 bolt/nut.

 

Obviously that 10mm bolt is used in shear not tension so it doesn't need a high torque to on the nut to do it's job.

 

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Pappy35

Ah. Yeah. Good stuff. I love learning (or relearning) stuff. Nerds never grow too old to geek out on engineering chatter.

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poodad
Ah. Yeah. Good stuff. I love learning (or relearning) stuff. Nerds never grow too old to geek out on engineering chatter.

 

Except that I'm even more confused about what I need to procure in order to lube the splines on the final drive!

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Pappy35

Get a new lock nut and torque as specified.

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dirtrider
Ah. Yeah. Good stuff. I love learning (or relearning) stuff. Nerds never grow too old to geek out on engineering chatter.

 

Except that I'm even more confused about what I need to procure in order to lube the splines on the final drive!

 

Morning poodad

 

On your 2011 1200 camhead--

 

Most (that I have worked on anyhow) 1200 camhead bikes require as new bolt as they use a micro encapsulated bolt. My official camhead BMW dealer service manual also calls for a new bolt but not a new nut.

 

To be sure (on YOUR bike) you will have to determine (IF) your bike now uses a microencapsulated bolt or a standard bolt with locking (torque prevailing) nut. Then replace the bolt if it is microencapsulated or replace the nut if it is a locking (torque prevailing) nut.

 

OR, if still in doubt then just order a new bolt & a new nut then replace both. (this way you cover ALL bases). (new nut is only about $1.10 from BMW)

 

Or, another option is to re-use your original bolt & nut using Lock-Tite on the cleaned threads (personally I use red Lock-Tite).

 

The original bolt & nut are not stressed anywhere near their working limits so are basically re-usable many times (as far as stretching & work-load limits go), the reason for required replacement is ONLY due to the nut retention safety aspect.

 

gJz6tz7.jpg

 

 

 

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Dann

Did BMW change the paralever link from the Hexhead?

 

My hexhead requires that only the nut be replaced

 

Securiring-Rear-Paralever.jpg

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longjohn

 

Morning Bob

 

I'm surprised that your dealer admits to violating BMW recommended practices but using a Lock-Tite thread locker is perfectly adequate (in my opinion) as the bolt & nut is definitely re-usable as far as strength & function goes. Personally I would use a Red Lock-Tite on a bolt/nut that large & of that importance but a PROPER application of Blue would probably also work.

I asked the dealer's mechanic about the flange nuts, and he too said that they reused them, and in fact he had no idea that they were supposed to be replaced. It's prolly a common practice

 

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MichiganBob

Good Morning,

 

Just a little tangent Dirtrider. What do you consider a "PROPER" application of Blue" Lock-Tite?

 

Thanks.

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dirtrider
Good Morning,

 

Just a little tangent Dirtrider. What do you consider a "PROPER" application of Blue" Lock-Tite?

 

Thanks.

 

Evening MichiganBob

 

I don't use blue on the bolt that we are talking about in this thread as I prefer red. I would imagine that blue would probably work without issue, I just prefer the added security of red.

 

Proper application is kind of subjective but basically falls under the general rule of "enough" without using so much that it gets into, or all over, everything not requiring it.

 

Proper application should look something like the bolt pictured above referring to microencapsulation

 

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