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Fugu

Windscreen / Front ESA sensor errors 41769 and 41764

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Fugu

By the way, the fuel sensor seems real close. Old Zfe said half tank 171 miles, New said 1/2 tank 156 miles. Will watch that of course and calibrate if needed. I may plug in the 05 ZFE in the morning. Ups says will be here late today. I can plug it in and test it in half an hour at this point then decide whether to run it or the 06 one in it right now.

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Fugu

Quick 100 miler today and all is well!!

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lkraus
By the way, the fuel sensor seems real close. Old Zfe said half tank 171 miles, New said 1/2 tank 156 miles. Will watch that of course and calibrate if needed.

 

Miles remaining is a calculation, in this case, based on the consumption of the original bike. Reset the computer and the accuracy will improve as you establish the consumption rate on your bike.

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dirtrider
By the way, the fuel sensor seems real close. Old Zfe said half tank 171 miles, New said 1/2 tank 156 miles. Will watch that of course and calibrate if needed.

 

Miles remaining is a calculation, in this case, based on the consumption of the original bike. Reset the computer and the accuracy will improve as you establish the consumption rate on your bike.

 

Morning lkraus

 

It's probably based on the current bike not the original as the ZFE only stores part of the info with a volatile memory. The new ZFE should have picked the original info up from the dash module & BMS-KP over the CAN.

 

I'm not saying it is totally accurate but as you say should improve once bike is ridden.

 

 

 

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Fugu

However it’s doing the math I’m just happy it’s reading the level right, etc. I filled the tank after my ride and the gauge responded. I was less concerned about the miles remaining guessometer than with it registering the level of that makes sense.

Edited by Fugu

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Fugu

Well that didn’t last long.

 

600 mile or so overnight trip. Screen started going wonky. Wouldn’t go down. Then wouldn’t go up. Would move at ignition on. Worked ok part of the time...

 

Now it’s home and I tried to calibrate it and it’s throwing the 41769 error. Gs-911 shows windscreen sensor “off”

 

Tomorrow I’m swapping in another used windscreen actuator.

 

Sigh.

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Fugu

Nose of the bike off. Old actuator, new / used actuator, no actuator... all Gs-911 readings the same.

 

41769 Windscreen sensor / Front ESA sensor malfunction

Currently present YES

Symptom No signal or value

Engine warning light (MIL) NO

 

“No signal or value”....

 

Is it possible that THREE actuators have the same problem?

 

I’d guess less likely than a wire being broken or rubbed.

 

Seeing 11.5v on gray/white wire and 5v on gray/ green wire. No amount of wiggling things around seems to make that change.

 

Thinking about pulling the tank and running new wires to eliminate an intermittent break / short in those wires.

 

The up/ down and ground seem to be eliminated because the screen does go up and down when computer gets the sensor input.

 

Once again at the end of my meager wits.

 

 

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dirtrider
Nose of the bike off. Old actuator, new / used actuator, no actuator... all Gs-911 readings the same.

 

41769 Windscreen sensor / Front ESA sensor malfunction

Currently present YES

Symptom No signal or value

Engine warning light (MIL) NO

 

“No signal or value”....

 

Is it possible that THREE actuators have the same problem?

 

I’d guess less likely than a wire being broken or rubbed.

 

Seeing 11.5v on gray/white wire and 5v on gray/ green wire. No amount of wiggling things around seems to make that change.

 

Thinking about pulling the tank and running new wires to eliminate an intermittent break / short in those wires.

 

The up/ down and ground seem to be eliminated because the screen does go up and down when computer gets the sensor input.

 

Once again at the end of my meager wits.

 

 

Evening Fugu

 

I'm running out of ideas on this one as it is a very unique failure.

 

It is possible that you have an open wire but with all that your have done I would say probably not.

 

There is one thing-- did the previous owner remove some accessory (like radio or alarm)? If something was removed & you now have an open CAN (Canbus) connector that now doesn't have a proper terminating resistor installed then your ZFE could be acting up due to a strange signal input into the CAN.

 

 

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Fugu

Hi Dirtrider.

 

Nothing was removed.

 

I’m getting the same error with either of two ZFEs and either of two actuators.

 

And I wired around the bike’s wiring for the gray/ white stripe and gray/ green stripe wires and no change.

 

I’m the one who removed ESA but the windshield died before the ESA removal.

 

I’m tracing wires from the switch to look at hot wiring the stupid thing.

 

Found a brown w/gray and a brown w/ violet. Both rest at 11.5v

 

Brown/ gray goes to 0 on down switch. Brown/ violet to 0 on up switch I can’t tell what those labels say on the schematic you gave me for the switch. I am taking a break for a bit. I’m not sure what I found is where I want to be. It’s one of the two plugs next to main ZFE plugs. Large bundle from left hand switch group.

 

 

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Fugu

I haven’t seen anyone say to hook up a resistor to any of the ESA plugs when removing ESA, and I didn’t do anything with those plugs but this predated ESA removal. Same issue was on bike when the busted ESA was hooked up.

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Fugu

I’m about to ghost ride this thing into a lake. I am

Running motor leads back to battery area and closing the bike up.

 

I ordered a DPDT momentary switch. Will be an easy 4 wire hookup. Will stick that toggle in the blank panel above the accessory plug where factory radio controls would be.

 

I’ll have to make sure to not keep pushing the switch past the mechanical limits of the motor.

 

I’m done with these shenanigans.

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Fugu

Oh wise oracle of the dirt:

 

Can I lean on you one more time?

 

Do the wires I think I found sound correct?

 

I have the switches here and can definitely make that work. But if I cut the wires I found and use them to trigger two relays as you outline earlier I will maintain the handlebar switch functionality. I am paranoid about causing some interruption in the canbus force.

 

I can wire two relays normally closed to ground, so the motor leads which are already disconnected from the Zfe rest at ground. When the up switch is pressed, activate the up relay to supply + to the correct lead using the ground connection to trigger that relay. The other relay still rests at ground. Shield goes up. Reverse for the other side. I can’t describe it well but I can sort that out. I can wire that circuit no trouble

 

What I don’t follow is what that picture you posted is showing me with the three wires. I assume one is ground to the switch and then the switch connects either the up or down lead to it. Is that right? Do the colors I found make sense? Brown/gray and brown/ violet?

 

 

 

Edited by Fugu

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dirtrider
Oh wise oracle of the dirt:

 

Can I lean on you one more time?

 

Do the wires I think I found sound correct?

 

I have the switches here and can definitely make that work. But if I cut the wires I found and use them to trigger two relays as you outline earlier I will maintain the handlebar switch functionality. I am paranoid about causing some interruption in the canbus force.

 

I can wire two relays normally closed to ground, so the motor leads which are already disconnected from the Zfe rest at ground. When the up switch is pressed, activate the up relay to supply + to the correct lead using the ground connection to trigger that relay. The other relay still rests at ground. Shield goes up. Reverse for the other side. I can’t describe it well but I can sort that out. I can wire that circuit no trouble

 

What I don’t follow is what that picture you posted is showing me with the three wires. I assume one is ground to the switch and then the switch connects either the up or down lead to it. Is that right? Do the colors I found make sense? Brown/gray and brown/ violet?

 

 

 

Morning Fugu

 

Look this schematic over (I drew it quickly while waiting for my morning meeting to start) so it needs close scrutiny yet. (ask any questions that you need to)

 

I show an ign switch controlled power source for the pull-in coil control power (this is so the windshield will not work unless key is on)-- You can eliminate that & power the pull-in coil side from the same battery 12v source but that will allow the windshield to move up & down without key on so any yahoo that leans on your bike could move the windshield past it's limits.

 

 

unlJnee.jpg

 

 

 

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Fugu

Oh to just whip up a diagram like that. Very nice, and thank you seems insufficient.

 

Do the brown w/ gray and brown w/ violet wires I found that ground on handlebar switch actuation appear on a wiring diagram for verification? They’d correspond to your blue and orange at bottom left and I follow the relay wiring. I’m confused by why the brown/ gray and brown/violet wires rest at positive voltage assuming they are the correct leads. Any idea what color combination the ground wire to the handlebar switch is? I may have to disassemble the switch pod to look and see. I had the bottom cover off and it is awful tight in there to try to see the third wire. I can make another run at that disassembly to see but I don’t want to tie relays to something that’s going to make the canbus angry or cut into the wrong wires.

 

I can get switched 12v+ from the gaps plug or the accessory plug. You think it matters which?

 

I messed with the motor since I have a spare and over limit without holding it for a ridiculously long time seems fairly benign. I’d assume eventually it will pull a ton of current and blow a fuse if left pressed (I’ll probably use smaller than 15a to start) but there was no grinding or slipping of the gears when I intentionally held the connection after it reached physical limits.

 

 

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dirtrider
Oh to just whip up a diagram like that. Very nice, and thank you seems insufficient.

 

Do the brown w/ gray and brown w/ violet wires I found that ground on handlebar switch actuation appear on a wiring diagram for verification? They’d correspond to your blue and orange at bottom left and I follow the relay wiring. I’m confused by why the brown/ gray and brown/violet wires rest at positive voltage assuming they are the correct leads. Any idea what color combination the ground wire to the handlebar switch is? I may have to disassemble the switch pod to look and see. I had the bottom cover off and it is awful tight in there to try to see the third wire. I can make another run at that disassembly to see but I don’t want to tie relays to something that’s going to make the canbus angry or cut into the wrong wires.

 

I can get switched 12v+ from the gaps plug or the accessory plug. You think it matters which?

 

I messed with the motor since I have a spare and over limit without holding it for a ridiculously long time seems fairly benign. I’d assume eventually it will pull a ton of current and blow a fuse if left pressed (I’ll probably use smaller than 15a to start) but there was no grinding or slipping of the gears when I intentionally held the connection after it reached physical limits.

 

 

 

Afternoon Fugu

 

The wire colors in that diagram were just to keep the different circuits separated.

 

I'm very busy today so if you can wait until later tonight I can match the wires in that diagram to the wire colors on your motorcycle

 

 

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Fugu

Oh No please dont feel like I’m rushing you I’m in your debt here.

 

It will be Saturday until I can do much on it anyhow. I’ll start making up the relays and wiring circuit on the bench if I get some time before then. Will take me a bit as I’m rusty and I’ll go slow and then bench test it before I stick it in the bike.

 

If you can help me identify/ confirm the 3 leads to the factory bar switch I’ll be home free. I understand your colors are just reference for the diagram.

 

I think the brown/gray and brown/ violet on the bike are the up and down from the bar switch but their behavior when the button isn’t pressed has given me pause. I don’t understand why they’d show 11.5v normally. Perhaps it’s “stray voltage” or something beyond my electrical acumen. They were located in the large bundle of wires from the left grip switch pod.

 

 

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dirtrider

Afternoon Fugu

 

Switch is easy but maybe not.

 

At least the switch common is easy as the switch common is - brown/white.

 

My book shows the switch raise output as - brown/violet__blue/black (color might change at switch connector)

 

It also shows lower output as – brown/green__blue/violet (color might change at switch connector)

 

 

I don't know how robust the handlebar swich is as it is designed to control light load electronics inside the ZFE. (I guess if it doesn't hold up then you can add in a regular switch later if needed).

 

Also, make sure to disconnect any tie back the ZFE (like 3 sensor wires on motor) & switch output back to the ZFE.

 

For the relay pull-in coil power you can get that from the hot wire going to one of the accessory outlets as that will get you key-on power & also remain powered for few minutes after key-off, then it will go dead until next key-on.

 

 

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Fugu

Thanks again Dirtrider.

 

 

It’s possible I saw brown/ gray and it’s actually brown /green Brown /violet is one I found so that’s a good sign regarding the lift/ lower wires.

 

I have the plug at the actuator disconnected so there won’t be any current/ signal going back to the ZFE. Likewise I’ll cut the switch wires to isolate it from the ZFE. Seems the ground can just be left intact. I wonder if that brown white might be ground for other of the handlebar switches also and best left connected.

 

I would hope any switch could handle the small current to activate the relays but you’re right if it fails it will be easy to add a switch later to run the relays.

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dirtrider
Thanks again Dirtrider.

 

 

It’s possible I saw brown/ gray and it’s actually brown /green Brown /violet is one I found so that’s a good sign regarding the lift/ lower wires.

 

I have the plug at the actuator disconnected so there won’t be any current/ signal going back to the ZFE. Likewise I’ll cut the switch wires to isolate it from the ZFE. Seems the ground can just be left intact. I wonder if that brown white might be ground for other of the handlebar switches also and best left connected.

 

I would hope any switch could handle the small current to activate the relays but you’re right if it fails it will be easy to add a switch later to run the relays.

 

Morning Fugu

 

No, you shouldn't leave the switch low (ground) connected as it doesn't go directly to chassis ground, it returns to low inside the ZFE.

 

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Fugu

Thanks Dirtrider. I’ll cut it and make it a real ground.

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Fugu

Well Dirtrider are you sick of this yet? I sure am.

 

I started back in on this.

 

The brown/violet and brown/gray are lift and lower. I suppose it could be light blue stripe not gray but it’s not green.

 

With those wires snipped, and the bike on or off, when the handlebar button is pressed the leads are grounded.

 

The brown/ white wire is somehow connected to them via the ZFE. Bike off metering from a lift/ lower lead to the brown/ white I see an open circuit (15-20 M ohms). Press the handlebar button and resistance between them becomes 6 K ohms.

 

The brown white never makes solid connection to either lift / lower wire so I can’t give the bar switch ground via the brown / white wire. Brown/ White from the ZFE shows 12v when the bike is on. With the lift/lower leads and Brown /white disconnected from ZFE pressing the handlebar button has no effect on Brown / white wire. With them all disconnected from ZFE there’s no connection between brown/ white and the lift/lower leads and no connection is made when pressing the handlebar switch.

 

There is a brown/ black wire which does make a solid connection to the lift and lower wires when the handlebar switch is pressed, BUT disconnecting it also kills other bar switches like turn signals so it must be some sort of common ground. It is at ground with the bike on or off.

 

Perhaps the brown/ Black is supplying ground to the bar switch and other things in the pod of switches.

 

The brown/White being disconnected seems to have no effect on anything else. There’s still some level of connection between it and the lift/ lower leads so I’m leaning towards your suggestion of disconnecting it from the ZFE

 

At that point since it’s not the ground connection for the switch I guess the issue is whether whatever is supplying ground to the switch (which seems like brown/Black) is going to work well for triggering relays without any ugly interaction with the Canbus.

 

I may just hook it up and try in the morning.

 

I do have a DPDT switch here. A couple actually. Not as cool as the bar mounted switch but it would work without any of this nonsense. I could feed it switched power by triggering a relay off the accessory circuit to avoid tampering when Parked. The switch is rated 20a so I wouldn’t need relays to switch the up/ down.

 

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

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dirtrider

Afternoon Fugu

 

I am on a road trip so only get to this site when I can get a connection (and the time).

 

Unfortunately all I have to go on is the BMW wire schematics that I have but most are at home & not with me.

 

In any case, either my schematics are wrong or something isn't the same between my wire diagrams & your bike.

 

Here is a picture of the 2006/2006 1200RT windshield switch connector, I have labeled the up & down connector cavities but sort of guessed at the common (ground) one (I do show it as cavity #8 though).

 

WGo2HUp.jpg

 

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Fugu

Yeah I’m not sure what’s up with the colors either. Perhaps it’s due to date of manufacture, this being a pretty early 05 bike. I’m looking at the harness on the handlebar side of the plug, too- that could be the side of the socket leading to the harness to the ZFE.

 

I do know that the home brewed relay circuit is operating the screen well, all other bike functions appear normal, GS-911 scan returns no anomalies, and I’m screwing the plastic back on it.

 

The brown/ White wire is intact. The computer shows the same “windscreen/ front ESA” sensor error and I don’t care because the ESA is in the trash where it belongs and my screen goes up and down without a dumb computer being involved.

 

10A fuse in the supply to the windscreen relays. The circuit is hot only when bike powers the accessory circuit via ZFE so nobody can mess with it with the bike off after the accessory timeout.

 

I really do appreciate the tremendous amount of assistance here. I’m hopeful this is the end of the windscreen chronicles and the end of bike gremlins.

 

Should you ever find yourself out here in WA state the red carpet awaits.

 

 

 

 

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Fugu

Hey there Dirtrider- just an update.

 

Everything works! About 300 miles since the last fix. Slabbing down to see my seat guru for a new throne today, will be about 250 miles round trip.

 

thanks again.

Edited by Fugu

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