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BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate

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Cohiba54

And no I don't wnat to start another oil thread (ANOT) Just want a simple/straight answer.

 

The "BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate Oil", SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2.

So not wanting to deviate for this oil spec, but yet not wanting to have to go to BMW for a quart of oil. Who else makes "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

 

Edited by Cohiba54

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Dann

Motul makes 5W40 MC oil

 

7100 4T 5W-40

Application

Engine lubricants

Engine Type

4-Stroke

Quality

100% Synthetic

Product Range

Motorcycle

Viscosity

5w40

API Standards

API SN

JASO Standards

JASO MA2 M033MOT115

Packaging

1L can, 4L can, 20L metal pail, 20L Jerry can, 200L drum

Article number

104194 ; 104195 ; 104197 ; 104641 ; 107276

Technical data sheet

 

100% Synthetic Ester based motorcycle lubricant for high performance bikes, sports bikes, street & road bikes, trails, off road bikes, enduro, trial fitted with 4 stroke engines, integrated or non-integrated gearbox, wet or dry clutch, engines meeting Euro 2 or Euro 3 emission regulation, fitted with exhaust gas after treatment systems: catalytic converters, air injection into exhaust pipe. Recommended for specific BMW, APRILLA, GUZZI gas engines requiring SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade oil.

https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/7100-4t-5w40

 

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lkraus

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Cap

Both Mobil 1 and Havoline sell JASO MA2 oils for motorcycles.

 

Cap

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Cohiba54

Thanks Dan

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alegerlotz
And no I don't wnat to start another oil thread (ANOT) Just want a simple/straight answer.

 

The "BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate Oil", SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2.

So not wanting to deviate for this oil spec, but yet not wanting to have to go to BMW for a quart of oil. Who else makes "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

 

If you didn't want to start another oil thread, why not just google "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

Its fine to ask, that's what the forum is for, but saying that you don't want to start another oil thread, then starting 2 separate ones seems a bit odd to me... :dopeslap:

Edited by alegerlotz

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Cohiba54
And no I don't wnat to start another oil thread (ANOT) Just want a simple/straight answer.

 

The "BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate Oil", SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2.

So not wanting to deviate for this oil spec, but yet not wanting to have to go to BMW for a quart of oil. Who else makes "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

 

If you didn't want to start another oil thread, why not just google "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

Its fine to ask, but saying that you don't want to start another oil thread, then starting 2 separate ones seems a bit odd to me... :dopeslap:

 

 

 

Well, both of the threads I posted are not "What oil do you use in you bike?" or "Who makes the best oil for my bike?" tread.

and

Well I did do a Google search, but believe our members would benefit as a results form this post.

 

Edited by Cohiba54

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realshelby

Shell Rotella T-6, which I have used up till this oil change coming up with one exception, is no longer rated for gasoline engine use. No API ratings, SL or otherwise. Be that marketing or a formula change, it is not recommended by Shell when you call them. Used to be the container listed API service letters, but did not list MA2. But calling them would confirm it would pass that, later on they even put MA2 on the oil spec sheet. Now they say it simply is not recommended for gasoline engines.

 

Beemer Boneyard has Liqui-Moly with the correct specs in stock.

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dirtrider
And no I don't wnat to start another oil thread (ANOT) Just want a simple/straight answer.

 

The "BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate Oil", SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2.

So not wanting to deviate for this oil spec, but yet not wanting to have to go to BMW for a quart of oil. Who else makes "SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2"?

 

 

Afternoon Cohiba54

 

You have a number of suggestions above so I don't need to add any more-

 

My input is just a cautionary one & relates to Rotella T6 5w40.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the latest MA2 rated Rotella 5w40 would work just fine-- but do a GOOD THOROUGH research on it (Rotella T6) FULLY meeting your API SL / JASO MA2 requirement. (if you are worried about meeting warranty requirements)

 

I have a number of containers of both new & older Rotella T-6 5w40 & (per the ones that I have) it is a very gray area that either meets that API SL / JASO MA2 specification/

 

I have some older containers that say API SM but no MA2 on those containers, & have some newer containers that say MA2 but no API SL on those containers. My guess is that the MA2 oil is basically still the same but Shell didn't want to pay the high cost of having it re-certified to meet API SL/SM specs as 5w40 isn't an oil weight used in modern fuel efficient automobile engines requiring an API fuel-efficient spark-ignition rated oil. It's main design usage is diesel engines.

 

Even the SM rated is questionable under BMW's requirements as even though oil is supposed to be backwards compatible, in the past, BMW hasn't totally accepted that as BMW wouldn't accept an SJ rated oil in place of their specified SG/SH rated oil.

 

Lately BMW is a bit crafty in their oil requirements as they seem to be able to find a specific motor oil that has unique (re narrow) specifications (that only BMW dealers seem to carry) then recommend that very defined specification for their motorcycles. Basically BMW makes it difficult to find over-the-counter oils that exactly matches their narrow requirements.

 

It's even worse on the newer BMW 700/800 bikes as they really found a unique specification that is about impossible to match in a readably available motor oil at a decent price.

 

 

 

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lkraus
Shell Rotella T-6, which I have used up till this oil change coming up with one exception, is no longer rated for gasoline engine use. No API ratings, SL or otherwise. Be that marketing or a formula change, it is not recommended by Shell when you call them. Used to be the container listed API service letters, but did not list MA2. But calling them would confirm it would pass that, later on they even put MA2 on the oil spec sheet. Now they say it simply is not recommended for gasoline engines.

 

I'm sorry to see that change. :dontknow:

 

The Shell website for ROTELLA T6 FULL SYNTHETIC DIESEL OIL no longer mentions any gasoline engine applications. But it has links to two PDF info sheets. The one for 5W-40 (the RTW spec) does not mention gas engines, but the brochure for 0W-40 still shows the API SN spec, without mentioning gas engine use.

 

Then they offer "Multi-Vehicle" 5W-30 T6, also API SN, which "performs extremely well in both diesel and gasoline engines, allowing mixed fleet customers to consolidate lubricants."

 

Oh well, it still works in my tractor.

Edited by lkraus

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dirtrider
Shell Rotella T-6, which I have used up till this oil change coming up with one exception, is no longer rated for gasoline engine use. No API ratings, SL or otherwise. Be that marketing or a formula change, it is not recommended by Shell when you call them. Used to be the container listed API service letters, but did not list MA2. But calling them would confirm it would pass that, later on they even put MA2 on the oil spec sheet. Now they say it simply is not recommended for gasoline engines.

 

I'm sorry to see that change. :dontknow:

 

The Shell website for ROTELLA T6 FULL SYNTHETIC DIESEL OIL no longer mentions any gasoline engine applications. But it has links to two PDF info sheets. The one for 5W-40 (the RTW spec) does not mention gas engines, but the brochure for 0W-40 still shows the API SN spec, without mentioning gas engine use.

 

Then they offer "Multi-Vehicle" 5W-30 T6, also API SN, which "performs extremely well in both diesel and gasoline engines, allowing mixed fleet customers to consolidate lubricants."

 

Oh well, it still works in my tractor.

 

Evening Lkraus

 

 

My guess is that the newer MA2 rated T-6 5w40 oil is basically still the same but Shell didn't want to pay the high cost of having it re-certified to meet API SL/SM specs as 5w40 isn't an oil weight used in modern fuel efficient automobile gasoline engines requiring an API fuel-efficient spark-ignition rated oil. It's main design usage is diesel engines.

 

 

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lkraus
My guess is that the newer MA2 rated T-6 5w40 oil is basically still the same but Shell didn't want to pay the high cost of having it re-certified to meet API SL/SM specs as 5w40 isn't an oil weight used in modern fuel efficient automobile gasoline engines requiring an API fuel-efficient spark-ignition rated oil. It's main design usage is diesel engines.

 

That is my suspicion as well, but despite previous disclaimers, this is an Oil Thread®. :read:

It's hard enough to convince someone to use an oil when the labelled specs match the requirements - I'm no longer going to suggest T6 is acceptable if the manufacturer will not.

 

I just find it odd that, other than obvious viscosity differences, different bottles of T6 claim different specs. If they are dropping the gas engine certifications, I'd expect to see at least a name change. Having read through the fine print and decided I've found the right item once, I expect it to be the same product the next time I see the name. Foolish assumption, I guess.

Edited by lkraus

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Skywagon

To original question...here is one Castrol 06113 Power1 4T 5W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, that is Jaso MA-2 API SL

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RTinNC
To original question...here is one Castrol 06113 Power1 4T 5W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, that is Jaso MA-2 API SL

 

That is what I use and BMW dealers sell it as well so that is good enough for me. And on Amazon you can find it for $42 for 6 bottles!

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NoelCP
Even the SM rated is questionable under BMW's requirements as even though oil is supposed to be backwards compatible, in the past, BMW hasn't totally accepted that as BMW wouldn't accept an SJ rated oil in place of their specified SG/SH rated oil.

 

So this oil may not fly in the event of an engine or transmission failure claim you're thinking:

Screen_Shot_2018-08-03_at_7.40.20_PM.jpg

 

 

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Alfred02

Hi Noel

The Liqui Moly Street Race 5W-40 is the one that I use in my 2014 RT.

It was the closest I could find that met the specs.

As of August 01-08-2018, Liqui Moly does not yet have their 5-40 on the official Jaso List. But they seem to have every other weight listed in the Jaso MA2 list.

As such, it was the closest I could get to meet the specs

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dirtrider
Even the SM rated is questionable under BMW's requirements as even though oil is supposed to be backwards compatible, in the past, BMW hasn't totally accepted that as BMW wouldn't accept an SJ rated oil in place of their specified SG/SH rated oil.

 

So this oil may not fly in the event of an engine or transmission failure claim you're thinking:

 

Morning NoelCP

 

When it comes to BMW you just never know how they will handle a failure claim. If the dealer is on your side then in the past BMW has overlooked a lot & made warranty repairs or even covered out-of-warranty repairs. BMW has in the past also denied claims for the smallest of reasons.

 

The spec is (at least in the manual that I have) --

 

"Specification-- SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2, Additives

(e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible

because they can attack coated components

of the engine, BMW Motorrad recommends

BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate oil"

 

The oil that you pictured shows it meets the JASO MA2 specifications so that part seems covered.

 

The SM (only) rating is the iffy part, as BMW clearly specifies an API SL oil.

 

For most usages an API SM rated oil would meet all the previous SL oil specifications but when it comes to BMW, or even motorcycles, that line is somewhat blurred as they could have specific (re narrower) requirements that an API SL oil meets but some API SM or SN oils don't.

 

BMW might not care or even question it but remember "ALL" BMW has to do is say "NO" when it comes to warranty repairs stating about any excuse they can find handy. THEN it is up to the rider to either convince them otherwise or hire legal council & pursue it though the court system.

 

My suggestion is to either--

 

(1)- talk to your dealer about using the oil you intend to use to see if they deem it OK (if the dealer actually sells that oil for use in the bike in question then you are probably golden).

 

(2)- call BMW & ask them if an SM oil usage is OK in your motorcycle (get persons name, time, date, or record call with permission)

 

(3)- call the company that produces or imports the oil in question & get something in writing that they will stand with you & behind you if you use their SM oil in an SL application & have future warranty problems.

 

Just keep the "BMW intent" in mind here- It is illegal for BMW to require a specific BMW brand oil, or oil only supplied by BMW, to be used unless they furnish it for free. But it isn't illegal for BMW to specify a very specific & narrow specification oil (that basically only fits their supplied oil & maybe a couple of higher priced alternatives). BMW seems to be getting better at this "law workaround" as on the BMW 800 bikes they actually found a very tight specification that is all but impossible to find a reasonably priced alternative & remain in the exact specified API, MA2, viscosity specification.

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RTinNC
71FbxLrlolL._SL1499_.jpg

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NoelCP

Yes Ed I placed an order for that oil and retracted it after thinking I wanted to try an all PAO oil which apparently is what the Liqui-Moly oil is, to see if there is anything to the hyped claim it can make my wonderful transmission even better than it already is ;o) That is a very good price and clearly meets BMW's spec.

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NoelCP
Even the SM rated is questionable under BMW's requirements as even though oil is supposed to be backwards compatible, in the past, BMW hasn't totally accepted that as BMW wouldn't accept an SJ rated oil in place of their specified SG/SH rated oil.

 

So this oil may not fly in the event of an engine or transmission failure claim you're thinking:

 

Morning NoelCP

 

When it comes to BMW you just never know how they will handle a failure claim. If the dealer is on your side then in the past BMW has overlooked a lot & made warranty repairs or even covered out-of-warranty repairs. BMW has in the past also denied claims for the smallest of reasons.

 

The spec is (at least in the manual that I have) --

 

"Specification-- SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2, Additives

(e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible

because they can attack coated components

of the engine, BMW Motorrad recommends

BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate oil"

 

The oil that you pictured shows it meets the JASO MA2 specifications so that part seems covered.

 

The SM (only) rating is the iffy part, as BMW clearly specifies an API SL oil.

 

For most usages an API SM rated oil would meet all the previous SL oil specifications but when it comes to BMW, or even motorcycles, that line is somewhat blurred as they could have specific (re narrower) requirements that an API SL oil meets but some API SM or SN oils don't.

 

BMW might not care or even question it but remember "ALL" BMW has to do is say "NO" when it comes to warranty repairs stating about any excuse they can find handy. THEN it is up to the rider to either convince them otherwise or hire legal council & pursue it though the court system.

 

My suggestion is to either--

 

(1)- talk to your dealer about using the oil you intend to use to see if they deem it OK (if the dealer actually sells that oil for use in the bike in question then you are probably golden).

 

(2)- call BMW & ask them if an SM oil usage is OK in your motorcycle (get persons name, time, date, or record call with permission)

 

(3)- call the company that produces or imports the oil in question & get something in writing that they will stand with you & behind you if you use their SM oil in an SL application & have future warranty problems.

 

Just keep the "BMW intent" in mind here- It is illegal for BMW to require a specific BMW brand oil, or oil only supplied by BMW, to be used unless they furnish it for free. But it isn't illegal for BMW to specify a very specific & narrow specification oil (that basically only fits their supplied oil & maybe a couple of higher priced alternatives). BMW seems to be getting better at this "law workaround" as on the BMW 800 bikes they actually found a very tight specification that is all but impossible to find a reasonably priced alternative & remain in the exact specified API, MA2, viscosity specification.

 

That sounds like sage advice. I think it may not apply for me because my RT is about to go out of warranty anyway. I'm wanting to give this oil a shot because there are several folks that swear it improves shifting behavior for them, and they like to attribute this to its high PAO content. I'm very skeptical of the claim so will probably try it out for myself when the time comes. Your concern is part of reason I've stuck w/ the recommended oil at the shop, which is a gas-to-liquid base oil and so far it's been totally fine for me, just curious as I say about the hype.

 

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dirtrider

 

That sounds like sage advice. I think it may not apply for me because my RT is about to go out of warranty anyway. I'm wanting to give this oil a shot because there are several folks that swear it improves shifting behavior for them, and they like to attribute this to its high PAO content. I'm very skeptical of the claim so will probably try it out for myself when the time comes. Your concern is part of reason I've stuck w/ the recommended oil at the shop, which is a gas-to-liquid base oil and so far it's been totally fine for me, just curious as I say about the hype.

 

Morning NoelCP

 

There could be a bit of truth to the shifting improvement. In most cases a fresh oil change can improve shifting in constant mesh non syncro type transmissions (just about any fresh un-sheared oil can show an improvement).

 

The bottom line is in how long the new shifting improvement lasts. The more shear resistant the oil then (usually) the more likely it will shift better longer. I say "usually" as my personal 800GS actually shifts better with higher mile well sheared oil, but this could be a wet clutch release thing not an actual transmission thing, or a me thing, as I seldom use the clutch for up-shifting 4th through 6th unless at full power & usually don't use the clutch for 6/5 downshifts.

 

A true up-level PAO based oil in some cases requires less polymers be added to meet the viscosity spread so c-o-u-l-d shift better longer. But there are also a LOT of other factors that come into play so just being PAO based is no guarantee that it will shift better longer.

 

The other factor is in the viscosity range rating and how it interacts with a wet clutch. You could have a 5w40 oil that actually specs out at 1 point under the 10w range & 1 point under the 50w range but it would still be rated & sold as a 5w40 oil but in reality is just about a 10w50 oil. Or, on the other side you could have a 5w40 oil that specs out at well under the 5 weight range & 1 point above the 30 weight range but is still sold as a 5w40 but could be real close to a ?w30 oil rating.

 

Without a lot of testing there is no way to know if in fact that Moly SM or SN rated oil fully meets the BMW 1200wc requirements but personally I wouldn't have any problems in using it in a BMW that is out of warranty. Or even using it in an 'in-warranty' 1200wc if I had backup receipts that show I purchased the correct BMW spec oil for last oil change. (I have a little work around on this but will not post it on a public web site)

 

 

 

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RTinNC
Yes Ed I placed an order for that oil and retracted it after thinking I wanted to try an all PAO oil which apparently is what the Liqui-Moly oil is, to see if there is anything to the hyped claim it can make my wonderful transmission even better than it already is ;o) That is a very good price and clearly meets BMW's spec.

 

I guess I've never experienced any shifting issues with my RTW so the Castrol works well for me. In addition there is very ofter a 20% coupon on Amazon which brings the cost of the Castrol oil down to about $42 for a box of 6 bottles and free shipping.

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NoelCP
Yes Ed I placed an order for that oil and retracted it after thinking I wanted to try an all PAO oil which apparently is what the Liqui-Moly oil is, to see if there is anything to the hyped claim it can make my wonderful transmission even better than it already is ;o) That is a very good price and clearly meets BMW's spec.

 

I guess I've never experienced any shifting issues with my RTW so the Castrol works well for me. In addition there is very ofter a 20% coupon on Amazon which brings the cost of the Castrol oil down to about $42 for a box of 6 bottles and free shipping.

 

I know it's a great price as long as you do the 'Subscribe and Save' coupon meaning you have to sign on to every x months repeat ordering, but I did read about how to get out of that agreement and it's apparently a simple matter of just cancelling. It is a really great deal compared to designer oils, which I still basically believe are hardly worth the upcharge. This being said, in reality the upcharge is really modest when you look at how often you change oil and all of the other things we pay for to continue this great...hobby!

Edited by NoelCP

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RTinNC
Yes Ed I placed an order for that oil and retracted it after thinking I wanted to try an all PAO oil which apparently is what the Liqui-Moly oil is, to see if there is anything to the hyped claim it can make my wonderful transmission even better than it already is ;o) That is a very good price and clearly meets BMW's spec.

 

I guess I've never experienced any shifting issues with my RTW so the Castrol works well for me. In addition there is very ofter a 20% coupon on Amazon which brings the cost of the Castrol oil down to about $42 for a box of 6 bottles and free shipping.

 

I know it's a great price as long as you do the 'Subscribe and Save' coupon meaning you have to sign on to every x months repeat ordering, but I did read about how to get out of that agreement and it's apparently a simple matter of just cancelling. It is a really great deal compared to designer oils, which I still basically believe are hardly worth the upcharge. This being said, in reality the upcharge is really modest when you look at how often you change oil and all of the other things we pay for to continue this great...hobby!

 

Nope ... they just have a coupon that you add to the order and reduces by 20%. No subscription to anything.

 

And for the OCD types like me who change the oil about every 2500 to 3000 miles it is truly a bargain!

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lkraus
...As of August 01-08-2018, Liqui Moly does not yet have their 5-40 on the official Jaso List. But they seem to have every other weight listed in the Jaso MA2 list...

 

The JASO MA oil list is useful, but not all-inclusive.

 

The JASO standard is here: JASO T 903:2016 Implementation Manual

 

To have an oil appear on the list, oil suppliers run their own tests, send a form (and a fee of about ~$360.00) to JASO stating that they have tested their oil according to JASO procedures, and that the oil meets JASO friction specs. JASO can request the actual test results if they wish, and can publish a list of oils meeting the MA specs, if they wish.

 

The JASO panel does not actually test the oil, or even see it, they take the suppliers word that the specs have been met.

 

Suppliers are encouraged to go through this formality, but they can claim compliance with the MA2 spec without submitting the paperwork. Note that neither BMW-labelled oil nor Rotella T6 appear on the list.

Edited by lkraus

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Cohiba54

Good info thanks Ikraus

Edited by Cohiba54

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Cohiba54

Well taken points you have the dirtrider

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Cohiba54
71FbxLrlolL._SL1499_.jpg

 

That will do the trich duw to meeting BMW's specifications

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NoelCP

 

Nope ... they just have a coupon that you add to the order and reduces by 20%. No subscription to anything.

 

And for the OCD types like me who change the oil about every 2500 to 3000 miles it is truly a bargain!

 

It absolutely required me sign up to Subscribe & Save, which as I say, one can do and get out of. And they change these offerings by the day sometimes in fact just now the 20% coupon is not more. And likely change them according to who's looking and when ;o)

 

Edited by NoelCP

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RTinNC

Correct/ The 20% coupon is not there today. But every time I have used the coupon it required NO sign up. I have done it a few times and never signed up for anything. You just have to watch Amazon for the offers.

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NoelCP
Correct/ The 20% coupon is not there today. But every time I have used the coupon it required NO sign up. I have done it a few times and never signed up for anything. You just have to watch Amazon for the offers.

 

Ed I believe you, but you're not believing me presumably because you haven't seen their offer structured that way, which is how it was presented yesterday. I've decided to follow thru w/ trying Liqui Moly for one change and bought a 4 liter jug on Amazon for $50.95 w/ free shipping and no sales tax from a 3rd party associate. Even at that price it's $23 cheaper than BMW Advantec Ultimate. I typically go 5K miles between changes.

 

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RTinNC
Correct/ The 20% coupon is not there today. But every time I have used the coupon it required NO sign up. I have done it a few times and never signed up for anything. You just have to watch Amazon for the offers.

 

Ed I believe you, but you're not believing me presumably because you haven't seen their offer structured that way, which is how it was presented yesterday. I've decided to follow thru w/ trying Liqui Moly for one change and bought a 4 liter jug on Amazon for $50.95 w/ free shipping and no sales tax from a 3rd party associate. Even at that price it's $23 cheaper than BMW Advantec Ultimate. I typically go 5K miles between changes.

 

I do believe you and have seen the offers you are suggesting. I have avoided those. And not sure why or when the 20% offers appear but when I see them I usually buy a box of 6. And even better the MOA had a deal for a 25% off discount which I took advantage of as well. But I don't only buy the cheapest oil I can find I usually try and find the best deal on oil that meets the BMW specs. In my 2012 GSA camhead I had been using BMW dino oil again getting it on Amazon for a good price. But when they stopped making it in 10-40 I switched to Bel-Ray that I can get from Revzilla. It meets all the BMW camhead specs.

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Cohiba54
...As of August 01-08-2018, Liqui Moly does not yet have their 5-40 on the official Jaso List. But they seem to have every other weight listed in the Jaso MA2 list...

 

The JASO MA oil list is useful, but not all-inclusive.

 

The JASO standard is here: JASO T 903:2016 Implementation Manual

 

To have an oil appear on the list, oil suppliers run their own tests, send a form (and a fee of about ~$360.00) to JASO stating that they have tested their oil according to JASO procedures, and that the oil meets JASO friction specs. JASO can request the actual test results if they wish, and can publish a list of oils meeting the MA specs, if they wish.

 

The JASO panel does not actually test the oil, or even see it, they take the suppliers word that the specs have been met.

 

Suppliers are encouraged to go through this formality, but they can claim compliance with the MA2 spec without submitting the paperwork. Note that neither BMW-labelled oil nor Rotella T6 appear on the list.

 

 

Ok, so I took the PDF "JASO MA oil list" you linked to Ikraus and exported to Excel. One should be able to sort and or filter out the specific oil specification and find a manufacture.

 

Well I tried adding the Excel (73kb) file and got this.

"This file type is blocked. The file types you can attach are: .txt,.jpg,.png,.zip,.mps,.gif,.gdb,.gpx "

Anyone have a yaw to attach an Excel file?

Did get a "zip" of the excel loaded

6972.zip

Edited by Cohiba54

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AndyS

Well I am not sure how up to date that list is that Ikarus pointed us to, but it does not list any Castrol products as MA2 certified despite it being shown in the pictures (above)!

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Cohiba54
Well I am not sure how up to date that list is that Ikarus pointed us to, but it does not list any Castrol products as MA2 certified despite it being shown in the pictures (above)!

PDF has a date as of 01.08.2018 and you are correct Castrol is not in the list. Yet I have 8 quarts of Casrtol Power 1 (SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2) that I got last weekend at Oryllie's, go figure!

Edited by Cohiba54

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realshelby

That is why the "list" is useless. I think we make WAY more out of JASO specs than the real world requires. In Layman terms there is almost no oil heavier than 5-30 that has the stuff in it to damage wet clutches. The oil we use is heavier than 5-30.

 

Since I try to not let stuff like this brainwash me, I still have to say I am unhappy that Rotella T-6 is no longer API certified. API and CK certifications are important to the engine and sensors it uses.

 

I have used BMW oil, Liqui-Moly, and T-6. They all shift about the same. Oil sample from Blackstone on the T-6 indicates the engine is very happy on it. The difference is availability and cost. T-6 was less than half the cost and available everywhere!

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RTinNC

I guess I am just a lucky one with no shifting issues whatsoever on my RTW. It shifts better than any BMW boxer I have owned which include '97 R1100RT, '02 R1150GS, '06 R1200RT, '12 R1200GSA and of course my current '16 R1200RTW. The gear boxes just seem to be getting better and better. So since Castrol works for me and is approved specs and is a good price I do not try to fix for me what ain't broke.

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NoelCP
I guess I am just a lucky one with no shifting issues whatsoever on my RTW.

 

Same same Ed--shifting has been fine as far as the transmission goes.

 

I just did an oil change and I will say I did notice something I hadn't noticed previously. I had about 4900m on my last change and for quite a while, I'm not sure how many 100's of miles, when I let out the clutch in 1st from a standstill it would quite regularly 'snatch' at a certain point unless I was very careful to slip the clutch a little more than one should need to to get a smooth engagement. Since changing oil a few hundred miles ago that behavior has vanished. So I'm thinking I should pay attention to how many miles on this new oil change before this behavior returns. It's the same Advantec Ultimate oil I just as I say never noticed really when that behavior started previously.

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alegerlotz
I guess I am just a lucky one with no shifting issues whatsoever on my RTW.

 

Same same Ed--shifting has been fine as far as the transmission goes.

 

I just did an oil change and I will say I did notice something I hadn't noticed previously. I had about 4900m on my last change and for quite a while, I'm not sure how many 100's of miles, when I let out the clutch in 1st from a standstill it would quite regularly 'snatch' at a certain point unless I was very careful to slip the clutch a little more than one should need to to get a smooth engagement. Since changing oil a few hundred miles ago that behavior has vanished. So I'm thinking I should pay attention to how many miles on this new oil change before this behavior returns. It's the same Advantec Ultimate oil I just as I say never noticed really when that behavior started previously.

 

Ditto. No complaints on the way my bike shifts either; Including all the way up and all the way down using shift assist.

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AndyS

Sorry...You are all happy with the way your bikes shift into 1st gear from neutral?

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RTinNC
Sorry...You are all happy with the way your bikes shift into 1st gear from neutral?

 

Speaking for myself ... yes! Better than any other BMW boxer I've owned.

 

But the whole neutral to first thing was never an issue for me even on my 1150 once I learned to just roll the bike back a few inches if it won't slip into 1st. But on the RTW that rarely ever occurs.

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AndyS

No, my 1150 was (generally) silky smooth from neutral to 1st (not so much for the other gears, but not bad at all). However, EVERY 1200 Wethead I have ridden has crashed into 1st from neutral (once warm). Oddly, when the oil is cold it is buttery wonderful.

Most of the other wet clutch bikes (non BMW) I have ridden have been worse when cold and improve with oil temperature.

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realshelby

Andy, it just is what it is. There is so little to complain about on these bikes that the neutral to first clunk provides us with something to discuss! Since it seems there is zero problems, even on high mile bikes, from this I just slam it into first and go. Hardly think about it now.

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RTinNC
No, my 1150 was (generally) silky smooth from neutral to 1st (not so much for the other gears, but not bad at all). However, EVERY 1200 Wethead I have ridden has crashed into 1st from neutral (once warm). Oddly, when the oil is cold it is buttery wonderful.

Most of the other wet clutch bikes (non BMW) I have ridden have been worse when cold and improve with oil temperature.

 

Guess I never had an issue with it or noticed the clunk. I only know from my own experience that every iteration of he boxer has gotten better and smoother shifting. My '97 1100RT and my '02 1150GS both had periodic difficulty from neutral to first but as noted once I learned the drill it was never ever an issue. On both bikes you had to make sure first to 2nd gear as a solid firm shift or you would hang in neutral but on any 1200 that is gone. Both my '06 and '12 oil heads shifted waaaay better than the 1100 and 1150. Now my RTW is even better. But like realshelby says each bike has a personality and this is just part of the character of the bikes. Funny but friends who have owned Gold Wings and Honda Pacific Coasts have noted they were so perfect it was kind of boring with no character whatsoever. All I can say is for me the boxers just keep getting better and better.

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AndyS
Andy, it just is what it is. There is so little to complain about on these bikes that the neutral to first clunk provides us with something to discuss! Since it seems there is zero problems, even on high mile bikes, from this I just slam it into first and go. Hardly think about it now.

 

Hi Terry, don't get me wrong. I am not complaining per se, but it bugs me when we don't recognise the shortcomings in a model line.

There have been posts that infer these bikes snick quietly into every gear silently, and for new readers here, they need to know that is not the case. If they test ride a bike, a clunk into first is what they (currently) should expect once the bike is warm.

I'm not saying it is a problem because we know it isn't...But, it IS there on all current Wethead models.

 

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realshelby

That is true Andy. But I will take the clunk from neutral to first any day over the 1-2 shift the oilheads had as well as other bikes like the DL 1000 V Stroms. Pointing it out is just fine, and "new" owners will feel better to know it is normal. But obsessing over it, I do not!

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RTinNC
That is true Andy. But I will take the clunk from neutral to first any day over the 1-2 shift the oilheads had as well as other bikes like the DL 1000 V Stroms. Pointing it out is just fine, and "new" owners will feel better to know it is normal. But obsessing over it, I do not!

 

Amen that !

 

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Bernie
That is true Andy. But I will take the clunk from neutral to first any day over the 1-2 shift the oilheads had as well as other bikes like the DL 1000 V Stroms. Pointing it out is just fine, and "new" owners will feel better to know it is normal. But obsessing over it, I do not!

 

Amen that !

 

I would fine with that if I could get a clean shift, using the clutch from 2nd to 3rd gear.

Never had that with either the OilHead or the HexHead. But no noises using Shift Assist Pro (clutch less up shift).

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