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2012 R1200RT added longer brake line and now have problem


crawfcj

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I need help. I installed the Illium Works bar/back risers and the Spiegler extended brake line. Of course that mean removing the original line, which opened the brake system to air, but i saw no way around that, and anyway the new line was going to have to be bled to fill it as well. So I got it all installed and tightened down. I filled the master cylinder with fluid as I had emptied it prior to disconnecting the original brake line. Prior to bleeding, I turned on the ignition to crank it up and it did not want to start. Strange (to me) because before I started this project I had ridden it 350 miles an a decent day, and it ran perfectly. It finally started, with much throttle movement, but ran terribly as if on only one cylinder or bad gas. I turned it off the turned it back on and noticed the display showed the engine symbol with an explanation point in the middle. I looked that up and it appears that the computer doesn't like something and has put the bike in safe mode or the like.

 

Well, I guessed that might be because there is air in the abs pump. I let it sit overnight, and this morning ran 12 oz of new brake fluid through the master cylinder, bleeding at each of the bleed screws on the front calipers. I used a compressor operated bleeder, which freely sucked out lots of fluid. I still have no brakes with the hand lever. Nothing.

 

So, can anyone advise me what's going on? Can air not be bled out of the abs system through the front wheel bleeders? Is that the likely cause of the computer disabling my bike? I know I have no choice but to take it to the dealer to reset the computer and error codes.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to add a line, but I've certainly done something wrong!

 

Thanks in advance for advice.

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I need help. I installed the Illium Works bar/back risers and the Spiegler extended brake line. Of course that mean removing the original line, which opened the brake system to air, but i saw no way around that, and anyway the new line was going to have to be bled to fill it as well. So I got it all installed and tightened down. I filled the master cylinder with fluid as I had emptied it prior to disconnecting the original brake line. Prior to bleeding, I turned on the ignition to crank it up and it did not want to start. Strange (to me) because before I started this project I had ridden it 350 miles an a decent day, and it ran perfectly. It finally started, with much throttle movement, but ran terribly as if on only one cylinder or bad gas. I turned it off the turned it back on and noticed the display showed the engine symbol with an explanation point in the middle. I looked that up and it appears that the computer doesn't like something and has put the bike in safe mode or the like.

 

Well, I guessed that might be because there is air in the abs pump. I let it sit overnight, and this morning ran 12 oz of new brake fluid through the master cylinder, bleeding at each of the bleed screws on the front calipers. I used a compressor operated bleeder, which freely sucked out lots of fluid. I still have no brakes with the hand lever. Nothing.

 

So, can anyone advise me what's going on? Can air not be bled out of the abs system through the front wheel bleeders? Is that the likely cause of the computer disabling my bike? I know I have no choice but to take it to the dealer to reset the computer and error codes.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to add a line, but I've certainly done something wrong!

 

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

Morning Charlie

 

You might have 2 separate problems as the brakes shouldn't cause the engine to run poorly.

 

On the brakes?-- First off, using a vacuum bleeder is not a good way to get all the air out of the system. A vacuum bleeding just slowly pulls fluid through the system so the air remains high & the fluid just passes under it.

 

You will probably need to FIRST bleed all the air out of the master cylinder & line going down to the first junction block , then pump the brake lever to compress the air remaining in the system so it can move through in larger bubbles as you bleed out at the caliper fittings.

 

So, toss a (clean) box cutter blade or a quarter (25 cent piece) into the bottom of front master cylinder reservoir to prevent fluid squirting up out of the reservoir, then with a full reservoir start moving the front brake lever (just a very little movement). Keep slightly depressing the front lever/releasing & watch for air bubbles to keep bubbling up in the reservoir fluid (with all the air you have in the system there should be lots of bubbles for a lot of lever depressions).

 

Once the bubbles stop appearing that usually means the master cylinder & line going down is pretty well air free (you must start with an air free master cylinder & line going down).

 

To bleed the calipers you can do the pump lever/hold/open bleeder screw, or find a container with a top, then poke a hole in the top, then run a clear (tight fitting) hose from the caliper bleed nipple to the very bottom of the container. Once you get a little fluid bled into the container so the hose end is below fluid level it will act as a fluidic check valve so the bleeder can remain open & you can then pump the heck out of the lever to move massive amounts of fluid through the system & take the remaining air through with it.

 

Be sure to cover ALL dash & exposed plastic so no brake fluid gets on the dash or painted surfaces as brake fluid is a fantastic paint remover.

 

Once you get the brakes working then we can address the engine runability problem.

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Thank you DR. I should elaborate a bit on what I've done. After filling the master cylinder, I hand pumped it many times and watched the tiny bubbles come up through the hole. I then zip-tied the brake lever closed and left it overnight for gravity to help move some air. The fluid level did go down a couple of millimeters by this morning. So I attached the vacuum pump to the bleed screws and turned it on, opened the bleeders and watched the fluid go dow. I refilled the master cylinder resevoir at least five times as the fluid continued to drain out. In between fills, I would pump the lever several times, but could never get any pressure. So, once I had emptied a full new 12 oz can of fluid, I stopped. Continued trying to pump the lever, but no pressure. Also, no bubbles coming up anymore.

 

Knowing the above is there anything to add, or just follow the instructions you provided.?

 

And thanks so much for your help!

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Thank you DR. I should elaborate a bit on what I've done. After filling the master cylinder, I hand pumped it many times and watched the tiny bubbles come up through the hole. I then zip-tied the brake lever closed and left it overnight for gravity to help move some air. The fluid level did go down a couple of millimeters by this morning. So I attached the vacuum pump to the bleed screws and turned it on, opened the bleeders and watched the fluid go dow. I refilled the master cylinder resevoir at least five times as the fluid continued to drain out. In between fills, I would pump the lever several times, but could never get any pressure. So, once I had emptied a full new 12 oz can of fluid, I stopped. Continued trying to pump the lever, but no pressure. Also, no bubbles coming up anymore.

 

Knowing the above is there anything to add, or just follow the instructions you provided.?

 

And thanks so much for your help!

 

Afternoon Charlie

 

If you would have gotten all the air out of the master cylinder & hose before bleeding at the calipers it is a piece of cake (usually don't even have to bleed at calipers).

 

Now that you have worked the air into the system & ABS unit it is more difficult.

 

You first need to get some brake pressure in the master cylinder. It sounds like you have done that as correctly as possible but it still has air somewhere.

 

You need to keep working on the master cylinder part until you can get some resistance to the lever pull & some basic braking pressure.

 

Try rotating the handle bars to have the master cylinder at a high angle, then rotate the other way for low angle. Pump the lever with little movements to see if you can get any more air out this way. Squeeze the lever then allow it to snap back as quickly as possible.

 

You might have to put the bike on the side stand to get enough brake system angle to get more air to expel (again move bars both directions).

 

You definitely have air trapped somewhere-- the air wants to come UP on the fluid as the fluid likes to flow down under any air pockets.

 

Make sure the brake lever is adjusted for max lever travel if it was previously adjusted for smaller hands.

 

 

 

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DR

 

Put it on the side stand. pumped the lever many, many times, not all the way. but about halfway. It worked!!! I now have pressure at the lever. Thanks so much.

 

On to bleeding at the calipers.

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The brakes now are bled. Air appears to be gone. Solid pressure at the lever. Probably some air left, but it is in much better shape now.

 

On to the warning symbol. What should I do before I take it in, if I have to.

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The brakes now are bled. Air appears to be gone. Solid pressure at the lever. Probably some air left, but it is in much better shape now.

 

On to the warning symbol. What should I do before I take it in, if I have to.

 

Evening Charlie

 

That kind of depends on what you did during the riser & brake line install.

 

How much did you disassemble when working on the bike?

 

You might have disturbed the cruise control cable (comes out from under the front bottom of gas tank) -- if the cable coupler is pulled partially apart that could be holding the throttles open a little.

 

Or the R/H throttle cable not routed around the air inlet snorkel correctly.

 

Exactly what warning are you seeing?

 

Until we know what the failure light is indicating we don't know exactly where to start looking for the problem.

 

Go back over everything & look near anything that you might have disturbed.

 

If you know anybody with a GS-911 that could give us a failure code (or codes) we would know exactly where to start looking.

 

 

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Cables and lines all seem ok. The warning indicator is the picture of the engine with an exclamation point inside. From the manual, page 28, it says:

 

"The engine is in the emergency operating mode. Unusual engine response is a possibility. Adapt your style of riding accordingly. Avoid accelerating sharply and overtaking. Possible cause: The engine control unit has diagnosed a fault. In exceptional cases, the engine stops and can no longer be started. Otherwise, the engine runs in the emergency operating mode. Continued driving is possible, however the accustomed engine performance may not be available. Have the malfunction corrected as soon as possible by a specialized workshop, preferably an authorized BMW Motorrad retailer."

 

I do not have access to a GS911. Would the code readers at an auto parts store be able to read the moto's faults? If so, maybe I can trailer it over to one and ask for a reading.

 

In a different thread, about charging a PC680, you wrote:

javascript:quickReply(1006622,1,0)

 

Personally I don't see a big problem but BMW engineering does as they caution about using anything that exceeds 15 volts if the battery remains hooked to the bikes electrical system.

 

There are a lot of electronics in the modern BMW motorcycle that remain partially alive even with the key in the off position so the electronics could see that 15.7 volts even with the key off. Hopefully there is built in over-voltage protection but BMW still cautions about over 15 volt charging. Due to the great expense of the BMW electronics heeding that warning might not be a bad idea.

 

While I was waiting on parts, I hooked up my CTEK 7002 and I likely turned on the reconditioning charge. I did not remove the battery. I may be screwed!

 

 

 

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Cables and lines all seem ok. The warning indicator is the picture of the engine with an exclamation point inside. From the manual, page 28, it says:

 

"The engine is in the emergency operating mode. Unusual engine response is a possibility. Adapt your style of riding accordingly. Avoid accelerating sharply and overtaking. Possible cause: The engine control unit has diagnosed a fault. In exceptional cases, the engine stops and can no longer be started. Otherwise, the engine runs in the emergency operating mode. Continued driving is possible, however the accustomed engine performance may not be available. Have the malfunction corrected as soon as possible by a specialized workshop, preferably an authorized BMW Motorrad retailer."

 

I do not have access to a GS911. Would the code readers at an auto parts store be able to read the moto's faults? If so, maybe I can trailer it over to one and ask for a reading.

 

In a different thread, about charging a PC680, you wrote:

javascript:quickReply(1006622,1,0)

 

Personally I don't see a big problem but BMW engineering does as they caution about using anything that exceeds 15 volts if the battery remains hooked to the bikes electrical system.

 

There are a lot of electronics in the modern BMW motorcycle that remain partially alive even with the key in the off position so the electronics could see that 15.7 volts even with the key off. Hopefully there is built in over-voltage protection but BMW still cautions about over 15 volt charging. Due to the great expense of the BMW electronics heeding that warning might not be a bad idea.

 

While I was waiting on parts, I hooked up my CTEK 7002 and I likely turned on the reconditioning charge. I did not remove the battery. I may be screwed!

 

 

 

Morning Charlie

 

Lots of possibilities but without a failure code or codes it is a BIG guessing game.

 

An auto parts store code reader won't work on your BMW motorcycle.

 

Tell us EXACTLY what you have done to that bike since it ran good? Tell us every bolt, every panel, every wire, every connector that you have touched, moved, or removed. If we know what has been effected maybe we can make an educated guess on what to look at.

 

No way to know if the high charging voltage effected anything until we know what the problem is (that would start with knowing the failure codes).

 

So you either knocked something loose, or inadvertently disconnected something, or damaged something.

 

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When I received the bar riser package from Illium Works, I took the right side panel off to have better access to the brake line swap. That required disconnecting the temperature sensor from the right panel. I also disconnected a dual USB charging port previously installed on the right panel.

 

I removed the bolts from the two handlebars, set them in front of the top of the forks, installed the risers, then installed the handlebars on top of the risers. I loosened the screws holding the master cylinder, and rotated it up to have access to the top of the brake line. I sucked all the fluid out of the master cylinder, removed the top of the brake line from the master cylinder. Then I removed the bottom connecting block by unscrewing the line to the abs pump and the block mount. Then installed the new brake line in the reverse order of removal. Rotated the master cylinder down after tightening the top of the brake line. I refilled the master cylinder and did a few hand pumps of the lever. I turned on the switch and attempted to start the engine, which is where I knew something was wrong. Very difficult to start and would only remain running if I kept the throttle open. I shut it off, turned the switch back on, and that's when I saw the error code. I then reinstalled the panels and bled the brakes. With your advice, at least the brakes seem to work.

 

This morning, with air temperature at 52 degrees, I turned on the switch and the pushed the left handlebar selection button to cycle through mph, mpg, etc. When I got to temperature, it read 141 degrees. Turned it off, turned it back on 30 minutes later. It read 139 degrees.

 

That's all I have. No access to a GS911 is a real handicap at this point.

 

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When I received the bar riser package from Illium Works, I took the right side panel off to have better access to the brake line swap. That required disconnecting the temperature sensor from the right panel. I also disconnected a dual USB charging port previously installed on the right panel.

 

I removed the bolts from the two handlebars, set them in front of the top of the forks, installed the risers, then installed the handlebars on top of the risers. I loosened the screws holding the master cylinder, and rotated it up to have access to the top of the brake line. I sucked all the fluid out of the master cylinder, removed the top of the brake line from the master cylinder. Then I removed the bottom connecting block by unscrewing the line to the abs pump and the block mount. Then installed the new brake line in the reverse order of removal. Rotated the master cylinder down after tightening the top of the brake line. I refilled the master cylinder and did a few hand pumps of the lever. I turned on the switch and attempted to start the engine, which is where I knew something was wrong. Very difficult to start and would only remain running if I kept the throttle open. I shut it off, turned the switch back on, and that's when I saw the error code. I then reinstalled the panels and bled the brakes. With your advice, at least the brakes seem to work.

 

This morning, with air temperature at 52 degrees, I turned on the switch and the pushed the left handlebar selection button to cycle through mph, mpg, etc. When I got to temperature, it read 141 degrees. Turned it off, turned it back on 30 minutes later. It read 139 degrees.

 

That's all I have. No access to a GS911 is a real handicap at this point.

 

 

Morning Charlie

 

The dash temperature reading has nothing to do with the engine running bad. That air temp sensor on the R/H lower panel is JUST for the dash ambient temperature reading not engine operation. (probably connection not snapped together correctly is why it is not reading correctly)

 

You might have to remove the R/H lower panel again to verify that the R/H throttle cable is properly routed around the air inlet snorkel. You should also verify that BOTH side throttle plates are completely closed & resting on their idle stop screws. Also verify that you didn't knock a throttle body loose from it's mounting boot.

 

Also, find the cruise control module on the R/H front (near the evap can) then follow the cable back to the rubber boot in the cable. Under that boot is an adjuster & it is easy to pull that adjuster partially apart while working on the bike therefore holding the throttle plates open a little.

 

On the L/H side just in front of & below the air box front is a cable box where all the cables come together inside that box-- make darn sure that all the cable outer housings are pushed firmly into their sockets.

 

Just to the rear outside of the alternator is the engine temperature (oil temperature) sensor-- if that is disconnected or connector partially pulled loose the engine will barely run so maybe check that also.

 

Cycle the twist grip (or have someone do it for you) then verify that both side throttle plate cams start lifting off their stop screws at the very same time & that both side throttle cams hit the wide open stops at the exact same time.

 

It sounds like you might have knocked something loose or dislodged a cable so you just have to find it.

 

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DR,

 

Thank you for your thorough and detailed instructions. It appears that I have had, or do have, an electrical problem. On top of the left side throttle body, one of the wires going in from the top is broken. That probably is why it seems to be running on only one cylinder. All the rest of the cables and wires seem fine and are securely connected.

 

Additionally, the IQ160 Skene Design Control Module had one broken wire coming out from it, and several of the wires going to the P3 brake lights in the rear were melted/destroyed. Maybe from taking the seat on and off. I don't know.

 

So, I will have to load it up and take it to the dealer in Atlanta. 120 miles away and across Atlanta from South to North is not much of a treat when pulling a trailer.

 

Anyway, I am so grateful for your patience and thoughtful analysis and replies to my questions. I will check back in on this thread once it is repaired and let you know what all was going on.

 

I feel like I'm about to spend a bunch of money!

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Charlie,

Just noticed you're in Auburn. I'm just south of you in Phenix City. I've got a GS911, lift table, and would be glad to assist. However, right now I'm in Ohio and won't be finished for a few weeks. If u can wait just let me know.

 

Mike

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Charlie,

Just noticed you're in Auburn. I'm just south of you in Phenix City. I've got a GS911, lift table, and would be glad to assist. However, right now I'm in Ohio and won't be finished for a few weeks. If u can wait just let me know.

 

Mike

 

Thank you Mike for the kind offer. I loaded up the bike on my trailer yesterday and drove it to BMW Motorcycles of Atlanta. I arrived in the rain, and the service manager, Bill Walls helped me unload it. I assumed it would be stored until they could work it in, but Bill rolled it into the workshop and asked the BMW tech to take a look right away. What they found, turned was an unpleasant surprise. Rodents! Chewed through the fuel injector wires just above the connector. They replaced the fuel injector connector and started the engine. Fired right up! The creature(s) also devoured the wiring for my Skene P3 lights. I was so impressed with how quickly BMW of Atlanta took care of me. It was diagnosed and fixed in under an hour! Kudos to them.

 

The good news is, thanks to DR's advice, my brakes are working perfectly, and now the bike runs again. Bad news for me is those little ground squirrels are all up in my garage and my dogs have been a pretty poor deterrent.

 

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Sorry to hear the results but glad it's fixed. I hope you don't have your car or cars parked in the garage. You may end up with the same destruction from those pesky critters.

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MichiganBob

All in all, sounds like a fine ending. Was it a case of false causality? This is when we get lured into thinking that Event A happened (install something new) and Event B happened after -- bike does not run correctly. Therefore, A caused B. In the old days when I was in the repair business, it was not unusual for customers to blame me for something solely because I just worked on their vehicle. As the scientists say, correlation should not to confused with causation. Seems to be a pretty common fallacy of ours.

 

Being a Michigander, I have about a four month down time. Rodents chewed my Hodaka wiring up years ago. My winter storage protocol now includes placing mothballs in strategic places on my bikes and stuffing rags where they might nest such as air ducts.

 

Ride safe,

 

Bob

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Bad news for me is those little ground squirrels are all up in my garage and my dogs have been a pretty poor deterrent.

 

Morning Charlie

 

Three letters for you: CAT.

 

I keep a barn cat in my shop, eliminates mice, squirrels, some spiders & he is super quick at finding flying springs & dropped small parts. He usually just lays on the shelf & watches what I'm doing (unless he's hungry, then he's a pest).

 

 

 

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MichiganBob

So Charlie, do you see any association between the work you did and the bike running poorly due to the rodent damage or was it just a coincidence?

 

Bob

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The folks at Atlanta BMW, after I explained that I screwed it up somehow, told me that this was pure coincidence. The rodents did all the damage and couldn't have cared less about my quest for better ergonomics.

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Bad news for me is those little ground squirrels are all up in my garage and my dogs have been a pretty poor deterrent.

 

Morning Charlie

 

Three letters for you: CAT.

 

I keep a barn cat in my shop, eliminates mice, squirrels, some spiders & he is super quick at finding flying springs & dropped small parts. He usually just lays on the shelf & watches what I'm doing (unless he's hungry, then he's a pest).

 

 

 

I agree. We've been without a cat for about four years now and miss them. Our dogs are not much help. Our search begins for a cat who will agree to tolerate a couple of half-wit dogs.

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I'll bet it was more than a coincidence, removing the panel probably bumped the gnawed wire.

 

Evening Cris

 

That is sort of what I was thinking. Working in the automobile industry & having some farm equipment I have seen a LOT of mouse & rodent wire damage.

The little devils like to chew the wire insulation off but I haven't seen one chew all the way through the copper wire strands. But once they chew the insulation

off the wires can short out easily.

 

Charlie had ground squirrel problems so maybe those things actually can chew through metal wiring. (we're going to need a bigger cat!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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