Jump to content
roger 04 rt

2017 R1200RT Stability

Recommended Posts

roger 04 rt

On Saturday I took delivery of a 2017 R1200RTW. Put in a hundred fifty miles riding it home before rushing off for dinner and then a couple days' trip to family. All I can say at the moment is WOW!, what a step up from the R1150T. However, I have as issue which will likely mean a return trip to the dealer. In preparation for that, here's my concern:

 

I left the dealership in Rain mode (just happened to be in that setting). Within 5 miles I noticed that the handling was twitchy occasionally and that the bike seemed to wobble a bit left/right. My first reaction was, huh, fast steering—and that I needed to adapt. Switched to Road mode. Later on the highway, I noticed a couple times at 70-80 mph that buffeting created enough enough wobble for a fraction of a second to get my attention.

 

I don't know the tires or pressure and don't know if Mode is a factor, and won't be back home till tomorrow. Have others had these types of issues? What should I look at or check?

 

Happy Holidays,

RB

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realshelby

I won't tell you there cannot be something wrong. Do check your tire pressures.

 

But, I also think there is such a difference in the '04 RT and the new Wethead RT that it just might be how "responsive" the new one is. I came from an '04 RT also. That said, if your bike has the Continental tires, there is about half of your problem......

 

Congratulations!

Edited by realshelby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

Thanks. I'm really impressed by the bike. And I'm willing to accept it may be me. Stay tuned ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skywagon

if your bike came with Continental Tires, take it back to the dealer and tell them to put something else on. Mine road walked so bad when I got it I thought I had made a huge mistake. I went from an 1150RT too. Changes tires and now rides like it is on rails. I hate admitting this but sometimes when out in the country and no one around, I will ride for many miles in cruise with my hands in my lap...it is that stable. Tire pressures of 37-38 on front and 42 in the rear. I know things could happen but it sure is relaxing.

Edited by Skywagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

The funny thing is it feels fine handsfree. And nice quick responsive steering. But then a gust or disturbance once in a while and a bit of left right left that takes away your confidence in its stability. A small shake but it's there.

 

I'll check tires and pressure later today.

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paRTy

 

Roger, when I first got my 14'RTW, I too experienced the exact thing you explain above ....("But then a gust or disturbance once in a while and a bit of left right left that takes away your confidence in its stability. A small shake but it's there.").

 

It was the Continental tires that came with my bike. They were the worst tires I have ever ridden on. My bike was so unplanted, unstable, wind prone, etc., I thought I had made a terrible mistake with choice of bike after have an 1100RT and a 1150RT, both great bikes. I got rid of them with only 2,400 miles on them.

 

Changed over to Pirelli Angels A spec and they changed my bike into a total different piece of machinery. Loved it - corners like rails, stable on straights, smiles in my helmet.

 

Now using Roadtec 1's and feel the same.

 

So....like others have said, check your tires. They make a huge difference, at least for me.

good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

Michelin PR4 GT Front & Rear

Front 35 psi

Rear 44 psi

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PadG

Roger, there was an almost identical post to yours in the other forum a couple of months back, and in that case the new owner checked everything, including tire pressures, before he was going to take it in to his dealer for a thorough check. In that case, the rear tire pressure was right on the recommended pressure of 42 psi, while the front was at 34 psi (BMW recommend 36 psi in manual). My recommendation to him was to get the front pressure up to the recommended level at the very least, but many of us ride at 40 psi front, which is what I suggested to him while he was at it. The response back was "wow! It's like riding a different bike!"

 

I am making the same suggestion to you! Get the front tire pressure to 40 psi, and take the bike out to see how that feels! 44psi is a little high for rear, but that shouldn't affect stability. Personally, I would drop that to 42.

Edited by PadG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

PadG (& everyone),

Thanks for that suggestion, I am going to take your advice and take a ride this afternoon.

 

I just got off the phone with the owner (and an experienced R1200rtw Rider) at the small dealer where I purchased who said exactly the same thing (almost). He said 38/42 but that 44 was okay. He further said that “every once in a rare while” he has to replace a front tire.

 

I'll take the ride and post the results at 40psi/42psi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

I brought the front pressure to 39/40 and went out for a 50 mile jaunt. That seems to have done the trick. The steering IS quick and nimble, but it also seems precise. I never would have guessed the difference 5 PSI would make. Next is a trip on the highways to see what 75+ feels like.

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PadG

Very good! That fits with all the feedback that I have had over the years. I had always ridden with the tires at 40/42 (Front/Rear), and had always taken the RT's handling characteristic very much for granted. You will be very satisfied with the high-speed performance also. Somehow my RT seem to get into the three digits speed at least once a year! No problems with grips in corners either. My '15 RT presently have the same tires as yours, and I frequently scraped the pegs on my rides.

Edited by PadG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

 

After verifying the right tire pressure, be sure to keep your arms loose as the steering responsiveness of the wethead RT likes a light touch. My '99 RT was so slow in steering I picked up the bad habit of ham fisted steering inputs and literally had my front end of my '15 hop up coming out of a tight turn when riding frisky. Had to relearn good steering control habits as this version of the RT steers more like a modern bike being close to the twitchy end of steering geometry spectrum. You'll notice that this RT has an OEM steering damper which is a sign the engineers wanted very responsive steering but added that bit to be sure things didn't get too twitchy.

Edited by Paul De

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave_zoom_zoom

After verifying the right tire pressure, be sure to keep your arms loose as the steering responsiveness of the wethead RT likes a light touch. My '99 RT was so slow in steering I picked up the bad habit of ham fisted steering inputs and literally had my front end of my '15 hop up coming out of a tight turn when riding frisky. Had to relearn good steering control habits as this version of the RT steers more like a modern bike being close to the twitchy end of steering geometry spectrum. You'll notice that this RT has an OEM steering damper which is a sign the engineers wanted very responsive steering but added that bit to be sure things didn't get too twitchy.

 

 

Hello Paul De

 

This is really great advise you have! There are times when I find myself getting a bit tense with my arms rather stiff while cutting things a bit close. I've found the best thing for me to do is to completely relax my arms and grip and flap my elbows like a little birdie. This gives the bike a chance to do its best and the ride is the smoothest.

 

I think that it is many techniques like this that enables us to ride smoothly even at an advanced age. When some of our abilities diminish our wisdom needs to increase.

 

]Dave

Edited by Dave_zoom_zoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

After verifying the right tire pressure, be sure to keep your arms loose as the steering responsiveness of the wethead RT likes a light touch. My '99 RT was so slow in steering I picked up the bad habit of ham fisted steering inputs and literally had my front end of my '15 hop up coming out of a tight turn when riding frisky. Had to relearn good steering control habits as this version of the RT steers more like a modern bike being close to the twitchy end of steering geometry spectrum. You'll notice that this RT has an OEM steering damper which is a sign the engineers wanted very responsive steering but added that bit to be sure things didn't get too twitchy.

 

I got out for a fast highway ride today, passed 3 speed traps and happened to be at the proper speed each time I went by. The advice about a light touch seems good, I was starting to do that on my own.

 

In my case I've noticed that even at low speeds, a road or wind disturbance and a bit of heavy handedness can lead to a wiggle. It seems more prone to that on trailing throttle. I'll give myself some more time to adapt and see how much is me and how much is the bike.

 

At this point it's pretty easy to ride hands-free on cruise control. Also, the dealer is experienced on this model so as a precaution I'll have him take it for a spin at the 600 mile service, which will come up quickly!

 

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RTinNC

Going from a 2006 RT I did find the 2016 RTW more susceptible to wind at highway speed. Nothing bad but it just does not feel quite as planted as the '06, especially when passing an 18 wheeler. But I notice it on the interstate with any wind turbulence. I just suspect its part of the RTW and nothing that worries me. Not sure if this is the same issue you are having but I did notice the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exportman

Also consider that at speed the BMW top box can induce a slight weave, especially if there is a cross wind. Nothing scary just is noticeable, especially if you are really moving. Most of the time I leave the top box off .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realshelby
Also consider that at speed the BMW top box can induce a slight weave, especially if there is a cross wind. Nothing scary just is noticeable, especially if you are really moving. Most of the time I leave the top box off .

 

That has been written more than once. I have yet to find a situation where I get a weave or feeling of instability. I have the factory large top box. It has seen speeds near the limit of the bike to produce. I have ridden in some severe crosswinds on I-10 and in West Texas. Not saying a factor couldn't be found in a wind tunnel, but I have not seen it on this or the previous RT. Just my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie

Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.

The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW's idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.

In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green RT

After verifying the right tire pressure, be sure to keep your arms loose as the steering responsiveness of the wethead RT likes a light touch. My '99 RT was so slow in steering I picked up the bad habit of ham fisted steering inputs and literally had my front end of my '15 hop up coming out of a tight turn when riding frisky. Had to relearn good steering control habits as this version of the RT steers more like a modern bike being close to the twitchy end of steering geometry spectrum. You'll notice that this RT has an OEM steering damper which is a sign the engineers wanted very responsive steering but added that bit to be sure things didn't get too twitchy.

I concur. I went from a 1999 RT to a 2015 wethead R, and the difference in handling is remarkable. The wethead is a real pleasure in the corners. It feels more nimble and responsive. At the same time it is the most stable bike I have ridden. On a straight stretch of road, I can set the cruise control and take my hands off the bars forever it feels like. Very slight weight shifts are sufficient to keep it on track. You can even take gentle corners with no-hands. My last RT had a tendency to pull to one side, but even after compensating for the pull, I was never comfortable with my hands very far from the grips. In comparison, the 2015 feels like it is on rails. The throttle response on the 2015 definitely requires respect. I have had the front wheel come off the ground with just a moderately aggressive start from a toll booth.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indy Dave

I'm with Bernie and Terry on the large top case and non-wet head stability issues at any speed due to the top case. I'm one of the oddballs you see who typically has the top case on and no side cases (unless I'm traveling). As such, my top case has been exposed to everything road and speed wise without hiccup or stability issues. The side cases take up more room in the garage - so they stay off the bike. After being endlessly teased by a gentleman from Perry, I have begun to use one of my soft-tail rear bags more often nowadays. Not that doing so has stopped the playground teasing from That Big GSA riding Bully in GA. I guess as the song says, 'The Devil went down to Georgia . . . " :wave:

 

But I digress . . .

 

One thing that may be worth considering for owners of the new RTW's that the the new RTW suspension may be transmitting MORE road feel than your previous model. I noted a very similar thing when I went from factory ESA to Wilbur's. Suddenly I was getting much more road feedback and it was unnerving at first.

Edited by workin' them angels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
terryofperry

:wave: Dave

 

Terry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.

The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW's idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.

In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).

 

Too bad we're at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

 

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn't notice any wiggle at all.

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indy Dave

BMW seems to have a couple of 'oem' tire suppliers. 2 friends bought new 2115 RT's. One had PR4'S the other, Metzlers. So is it just what the factory has on the line at the time OR are bikes shipped to the dealer without tires and the dealer is allotted a sun to put shoes on the bike when they assemble it?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.

The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW's idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.

In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).

 

Too bad we're at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

 

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn't notice any wiggle at all.

 

My 2018 was delivered with the Metzler Z8's which is a strange thing anyway, as Metzler's newest tires are the RoadTec01 which are a replacement for the Z8. But I guess inventory at the factory has to be used up.

I am going for a ride tomorrow and decided to increase my front tire air pressure to 40 psi, to see what I have been missing.

Roger please understand that after wearing out several Pilot Road 4's, including the heavyweight compounds I have never been a big fan of the Michelin tires.

I rather have the Pirelli Angel GT, with A compound. They don't last as long as the Michelin's, but they feel more planted.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill_Walker
In my case I've noticed that even at low speeds, a road or wind disturbance and a bit of heavy handedness can lead to a wiggle. It seems more prone to that on trailing throttle.

 

Unlike your oilhead, the wethead RT has a steering damper, to go with its steeper fork rake. I'm starting to wonder whether yours could be defective (they must have put it on there for a reason, right?). I haven't experienced any of the issues on my '15 that you're experiencing on your new bike. It is on PR4 GTs, though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie

Well, that could be possible, steering dampers will fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

Good point regarding the steering damper. I didn't know there was one until a few days ago when my cousin (owns a 2016 R1200RT with PR4s up in MA) pointed it out.

 

I've inspected its attachment to the steering and that seems fine and have sat of the back of the bike and checked for fluid resistance. The damping is there but I don't have any way to know how much or little there should be. It seems okay though.

 

Since I put 10 miles on a 2018 prior to purchasing the 2017 (from another dealer due to the first dealer not having a 2017), I can say that I didn't notice any out-of-the-ordinary manners. I'm going to check today what tires are on the 2018.

 

I've been out riding most days since I got the bike and thoroughly enjoy it. I will eventually figure out whether this over-quickness in the steering/wiggle is just me and the bike as a pair, or the tires, or whatever. Thanks for the ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

I just heard from the 2018 RT dealer, the tires I test rode were Metzeler Roadtec Z8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daveyator

My 2015 came with Metzelers. While never alarming me it's always been a bit sensitive to wind. I just got Pilot Road 4s and a lot of that is gone but I will now try the higher pressure in the front. As a side note my bike vibrated horribly after getting my new tires so I stopped and notice the front wheel had no balancing weights. Guess I should have done a better pre flight after service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
old_farmer

My 2017 came with Z8's. Compared to the 99 R1100RT I used to have, the wethead is a bit twitchy at slower speeds. But the faster it goes, the more stable it seems. It doesn't seem to be any more sensitive to crosswinds than the 1100 was. I try to run the recommended 36/42, but I might experiment with the front a bit based on what you all are reporting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.

The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW's idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.

In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).

 

Too bad we're at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

 

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn't notice any wiggle at all.

 

My 2018 was delivered with the Metzler Z8's which is a strange thing anyway, as Metzler's newest tires are the RoadTec01 which are a replacement for the Z8. But I guess inventory at the factory has to be used up.

I am going for a ride tomorrow and decided to increase my front tire air pressure to 40 psi, to see what I have been missing.

Roger please understand that after wearing out several Pilot Road 4's, including the heavyweight compounds I have never been a big fan of the Michelin tires.

I rather have the Pirelli Angel GT, with A compound. They don't last as long as the Michelin's, but they feel more planted.

 

Ok here is the results of increasing the front tire pressure from 36 psi in a 60 degree garage to 40 psi.

I rode 200 miles in 46 F degree weather (overcast and moist) of lots of different roads and different road surfaces, new, old, rough, gouged, sandy, dirty, concrete and curvy roads. I rode at lots of different speeds as I always do, including double of some speed limits.

NO noticeable difference, except when I pushed the bike out of the garage in the morning, it felt a little easier.

I will keep it at the higher pressure, as it may help with how fast the tires wear, but my 2018 RT is rock steady, even in blasts from 18 wheelers coming the other way or in drafts at interstate speeds+.

As of side winds, we don't get a lot of real bad weather here in Florida, but it is as stable as the old 2007 RT in my opinion.

By the way I did test ride a 2017 before buying the 2018 and I didn't notice anything strange with it's handling. I don't remember which tires it had, but it had less then a 1000 miles on the clock.

The only thing I can think of is maybe someone forgot to tighten all the fasteners after the assembled the bike at the dealer. My 2007 was delivered with loose handle bar bolts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

My '15 RT came with PR4 GTs and I would not really call the handling twitchy, but very responsive, particularly compared to my '99RT. Aside from something being off with the tires or Telelever components, there is a relative experience and preference to the steering characteristics. It took me a while to adjust to the responsiveness on my wethead but I always wished my '99 was a bit more flickable and got that in spades on '15 RT.

 

For me any perceived stability issues I traced back to me and my accumulated bad habits, like a death grip when riding frisky, and in general riding too stiff in my waist shoulders and arms. Once I began to trust that the new RT would not do anything scary like a tank slapper on deceleration or head shake on acceleration, and just relaxed and used a light touch on the bars my bike rewarded me with unflappable stability. The one caution is if the ESA is set to soft damping, the bike is very under damped and handling characteristics as you would suspect suffer. Sedate put-put riding is the rule when the ESA is set to soft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
terryofperry
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.

The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW's idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.

In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).

 

Too bad we're at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

 

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn't notice any wiggle at all.

 

My 2018 was delivered with the Metzler Z8's which is a strange thing anyway, as Metzler's newest tires are the RoadTec01 which are a replacement for the Z8. But I guess inventory at the factory has to be used up.

I am going for a ride tomorrow and decided to increase my front tire air pressure to 40 psi, to see what I have been missing.

Roger please understand that after wearing out several Pilot Road 4's, including the heavyweight compounds I have never been a big fan of the Michelin tires.

I rather have the Pirelli Angel GT, with A compound. They don't last as long as the Michelin's, but they feel more planted.

 

Ok here is the results of increasing the front tire pressure from 36 psi in a 60 degree garage to 40 psi.

I rode 200 miles in 46 F degree weather (overcast and moist) of lots of different roads and different road surfaces, new, old, rough, gouged, sandy, dirty, concrete and curvy roads. I rode at lots of different speeds as I always do, including double of some speed limits.

NO noticeable difference, except when I pushed the bike out of the garage in the morning, it felt a little easier.

I will keep it at the higher pressure, as it may help with how fast the tires wear, but my 2018 RT is rock steady, even in blasts from 18 wheelers coming the other way or in drafts at interstate speeds+.

As of side winds, we don't get a lot of real bad weather here in Florida, but it is as stable as the old 2007 RT in my opinion.

By the way I did test ride a 2017 before buying the 2018 and I didn't notice anything strange with it's handling. I don't remember which tires it had, but it had less then a 1000 miles on the clock.

The only thing I can think of is maybe someone forgot to tighten all the fasteners after the assembled the bike at the dealer. My 2007 was delivered with loose handle bar bolts.

 

Interesting ambient temperature differences, since I do not have a garage my temperature checks have always been taken at whatever the outside ambient air temperature is. In my case, where I live would always result in an increase in temperature & pressure during the ride. In your ride the tire temperature went from 60°F to 46°F for a small amount of time. I think I recall you being able to monitor tire pressures, if so, did you happen to get a reading during the ride after the tires heated up? If not, perhaps in two weeks on the way to Davisboro, Just curious and thanks for the write up.

 

Thanks

 

Terry

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie

 

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.

Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.

I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

 

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dirtrider

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.

Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.

I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

 

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

Your tire pressures are referenced to 20°c (68°f) not 60°f.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
terryofperry

Thanks for the explanation Bernie, silly me to think BMW would want the rider to know the actual tire pressure during a ride, sarcastically speaking of course, glad I do not have that system.

 

Be well, see ya in two weeks.

 

Terry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.

Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.

I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

 

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

Your tire pressures are referenced to 20°c (68°f) not 60°f.

Thank you for the correction and info, I somehow remembered something around 60 or so.

Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?

Will the moisture percentage mess that up?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie
Thanks for the explanation Bernie, silly me to think BMW would want the rider to know the actual tire pressure during a ride, sarcastically speaking of course, glad I do not have that system.

 

Be well, see ya in two weeks.

 

Terry

 

I know Terry it initially sounds strange, but on my old 2007 I had the Garmin TPS installed with the Garmin Zumo 590 and in the hotter month or during more spirited rides I would see really high temperatures,even when set to the normal cold temperatures. I remember seeing pressures in excess of 50-55 psi on the rear wheel. But after a stop like lunch or so they would drop back down to a normal range.

BMW probable does this to keep folks from being alarmed about high readings.

The main thing is that it shows if there is a sudden or gradual loss of pressure due to a puncture, as that can become a safety issue. As we saw during the last FART ride.

See you on the 13th of January.

Happy New Year to all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dirtrider

Thank you for the correction and info, I somehow remembered something around 60 or so.

Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?

Will the moisture percentage mess that up?

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

Yes, there are a number of PSI per degree (F) or © charts but the easy way to remember it is "about" 1 psi change per 10°f of (tire) temp change (so 40 psi @ 68°f would be 41 psi @ 78°f)

 

Moisture content will effect it slightly but so little that you won't be able to measure it with a common gauge or TPS sensor.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie

Thank you D. R.

This will come in handy done the road, as things warm up.

Happy New Year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indy Dave

Thank you for the correction and info, I somehow remembered something around 60 or so.

Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?

Will the moisture percentage mess that up?

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

Yes, there are a number of PSI per degree (F) or © charts but the easy way to remember it is "about" 1 psi change per 10°f of (tire) temp change (so 40 psi @ 68°f would be 41 psi @ 78°f)

 

Moisture content will effect it slightly but so little that you won't be able to measure it with a common gauge or TPS sensor.

 

tire_inflation_chart.jpg

 

 

Brilliant! Thanks DR (and a chilly Good Morning to you!) With several TPS systems in use between many of us, it can get a little confusing for a simple Hoosier trying to keep all these numbers straight. I remember trying to explain to Jerry how his TPS conversion worked on his 2015 RT will little success - and I even used small words. Conversely, I have the FOBO system and it allows you to toggle between actual current PSI and the 'adjusted' psi based on ambient temp.

 

Having a simple rule of thumb is great and I predict this info will shorten many a coffee and lunch stop discussions on tire temps and the like.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LittleBriar
Here's a thread that goes on quite a bit about tire pressure temps, ambient temp, and TPM's. I think the bottom line in this thread was to follow the advice in the manual and make sure you set the pressure you want with the tires cold, regardless of the current ambient temp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.

Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.

I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

 

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?

 

The TPM display is showing my desired (target) pressure. The manual explains how to do it. Take the bike for a ride, note the pressure. Say the display said 36 but you want 38. You need to add 2 psi. Then measure with your gauge. It reads 39. Add two psi to 41 psi. Go for a ride, the display shows 38 psi. A little convoluted but it works perfectly and is always with 1 psi later, cold or hot.

 

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

Dave,

 

Being -10F here today, it's good to know that 43F and 49R works for all temperatures below 0F. A lesson learned as a teenager was that messing with tire pressure when ambient temperatures are well below zero is fraught with peril. Moisture in the compressed can very well freeze the tire valve open and a low tire becomes a flat tire

Edited by Paul De

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indy Dave

Happy New Year one and all.

 

Hey Paul - you have us Hoosiers beat by a whopping 5 degrees or so. Obviously, I didn't make the chart, so - as those who know me best already know- "I know nothing". I apologize for posting the chart - i thought a visual might be helpful, but I don't want to sidetrack the discussion. Happy to discus tires, pressure etc in a separate thread if someone ends up starting one.

 

While frigid here, I came very close to riding today - but just too much snow/ice scattered around.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul De

It was a joke actually. Maybe I was a bit too dry in my humor and there is no way would I ride at this temp unless there was some very compelling reason to do so. The chart is awesome and confirms the 1 PSI for ever 10F rule of thumb at reasonable temps and pressures of interest. If I ever find myself riding to Dawson in winter...Ok, leaving the snarky comments alone

Edited by Paul De

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dirtrider

Morning ___

 

Just keep in mind that Bernie asked "Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?" he didn't ask at what temp you should stop adding more air.

 

That tire inflation chart stops at 0°f so the tires don't end up being inflated over the max tire pressure rating as they come up to operating temps not because the universal gas law changes at 0°f.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roger 04 rt

Back to my original issue, which I'll now describe as weaving (as opposed to wobbling), meaning that the handle bars don't move but the bike turns left right left right briskly as if I was throwing my weight around. It happened at speeds around 35-40 mph (neutral throttle, never when accelerating) and also at 75+.

 

Originally my front tire was 34-35 psi. (I wasn't smart enough to use the TPM before adjusting and I lost a bit of air.) and the rear tire was 44 psi. Last week I adjusted the front to 39/40 psi and the rear to 42 psi. The tendency toward weaving was better, nearly gone.

 

I've been out riding several move times since, and decided to see what would happen if I lowered the front pressure to 36 psi but ended up at 35. I went for a ride and pushed the bike a bit and now have wear on two-thirds of tread surface. I detected weave only once (in a quick turn) and it was slight.

 

I've ruled out that I'm imagining this, ;) but not fully ruled out that it's just me interfaced to the bike. Is it possible that the tires are behaving differently as I've scrubbed them up?

 

Edit: I have also run the spring preload setting from one rider to two with gear a couple times to make sure it was in the correct position. At full preload (two with gear) but just me (200#) the bike feels a touch less stable.

Edited by roger 04 rt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dirtrider
Back to my original issue, which I'll now describe as weaving (as opposed to wobbling), meaning that the handle bars don't move but the bike turns left right left right briskly as if I was throwing my weight around. It happened at speeds around 35-40 mph (neutral throttle, never when accelerating) and also at 75+.

 

Originally my front tire was 34-35 psi. (I wasn't smart enough to use the TPM before adjusting and I lost a bit of air.) and the rear tire was 44 psi. Last week I adjusted the front to 39/40 psi and the rear to 42 psi. The tendency toward weaving was better, nearly gone.

 

I've been out riding several move times since, and decided to see what would happen if I lowered the front pressure to 36 psi but ended up at 35. I went for a ride and pushed the bike a bit and now have wear on two-thirds of tread surface. I detected weave only once (in a quick turn) and it was slight.

 

I've ruled out that I'm imagining this, ;) but not fully ruled out that it's just me interfaced to the bike. Is it possible that the tires are behaving differently as I've scrubbed them up?

 

Edit: I have also run the spring preload setting from one rider to two with gear a couple times to make sure it was in the correct position. At full preload (two with gear) but just me (200#) the bike feels a touch less stable.

 

Afternoon Roger

 

I guess we should have asked this earlier-- Is JUST the bike weaving with bars holding still or does it feed back into the handlebars & cause those to move (or you can feel a change in bar resistance in cadence with the weaving)?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indy Dave
It was a joke actually. Maybe I was a bit too dry in my humor and there is no way would I ride at this temp unless there was some very compelling reason to do so. The chart is awesome and confirms the 1 PSI for ever 10F rule of thumb at reasonable temps and pressures of interest. If I ever find myself riding to Dawson in winter...Ok, leaving the snarky comments alone

 

Paul - Sorry, it went right over my head - which again shouldn't be surprising. :computer::dopeslap: One of the nice things about this site is that we can joke with one another. One of the reasons I didn't quite get it was that I'd been having a side conversation about ambient tire temps and the effects Full Moons, ocean currents, artificial hips and chasing Bernie have on tire pressure. AND Universal Gas Law. Frankly, it - like so many things - went mostly over my head and left a fine Southern Gentleman to give up on making his point and instead opted to send me chasing my tail as he claimed my GPS included a volt meter. :wave::computer:

 

The silly reason I would ride if the roads allowed is that I've not been able to for the last Month, so that itch is getting a bit distracting. :thumbsup::read::bike: I've been putting off some electrical work on the bike hoping to ride a little, but its going to be a week before we see temps above freezing here, so I might as well start playing the Wichita Lineman :burnout::spittake:

 

 

 

 

 

Morning ___

 

Just keep in mind that Bernie asked "Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?" he didn't ask at what temp you should stop adding more air.

 

That tire inflation chart stops at 0°f so the tires don't end up being inflated over the max tire pressure rating as they come up to operating temps not because the universal gas law changes at 0°f.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, D.T. My thinking went along those lines after Paul mentioned the static psi pressure - I'd failed to look that closely at the chart and didn't notice that when I first posted it. But that makes perfect sense (to me anyway)!

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Roger: Sorry our posts overlapped.

 

 

 

 

Edited by workin' them angels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...