Busdawg Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I am troubleshooting a recent symptom where the engine will die without warning. So far it has happened only right off idle in 1st gear when moving from a stop or at a low crawl speed in an intersection waiting for a turn. When this happens it has been with fully warmed engine ridden for at least an hour, in first gear just beginning to move off of a stop. It has not done it at highway speeds. In this state the start button is inop and the only way to restart it is to recycle the key in the ignition i.e. switch ignition off, then back on and it will start right away. There is no change in the instrument panel display when this happens. To troubleshoot, I have bypassed the kickstand safety switch. Tightened battery terminals. Wiggling the key in the ignition or kill switch has no effect. There is no EWS display. This does not act like a faulty FPC. I have had that happen and the current symptom does not behave like fuel starvation. This symptom is as though the kill switch has been moved to stop. Should I have a dealer scan for fault codes? Ideas? Regards Kim Link to comment
temesvar Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 You mention that you had FPC issues before. I have had the engine warm, no warning, no bumps or whatever else, and engine just stopped as if the key has been turned off. It turned out to have a flooded FPC. Did you replace the original silver FPC with the black one? i have and used some silicone on the gasket to prevent further flooding. I also have a 2008 RT. Good luck Link to comment
dirtrider Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Evening Kim When did the problem start happening? Was anything done to the bike just before the issue showed up? ANYTHING???? You might try a new TPS relearn to see if that effects the problem. Otherwise you can try to read the stored fault codes but the BMW system seldom traps things that cause a stall. You might end up rigging up a test light in series with the fuel injector trigger wire & with the fuel pump power wire to see if either one quits right when the engine stalls. Link to comment
RobinW Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I had a kill switch wire go open at full lock but it was obvious as the instrument panel changes. I've had 'dies at idle' after a long hi-way runs but greasing the actuators on the throttle bodies fixed that. If you got no fault codes it has to be fuelling surely. Went out in the 530i today and it was running rough. It stopped about a mile away. Said 1/4 of a tank but add 15 litres of gas and away it goes. Dodgy fuel gauge sender. Link to comment
Busdawg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) It started this last week. The bike was washed, that's all I can think of....I checked and greased the FPC. I'll do a search for the TPS relearn procedure. Thanks for the ideas. Edited February 14, 2017 by Busdawg Link to comment
dirtrider Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 It started this last week. The bike was washed, that's all I can think of....I checked and greased the FPC. I'll do a search for the TPS relearn procedure. Thanks for the ideas. Evening Busdawg TPS re-learn procedure is posted below. If the bike was just washed & a lot of water was sprayed on the fuel filler cap area, then, the stalling started right after the washing, you might have some water in the fuel tank. That water just sits in the bottom of the tank until you start to accelerate, it then moves & gets mixed in with the fuel then gets picked up by the fuel pump & sent to the injectors. I have seen some 1200RT's that the fuel filler cap doesn't seal to the gasket correctly & then can leak a little water into the fuel tank. There is also a water drain hole in the outer ring of the fuel filler assembly & that drain hose passes through the inside of the fuel tank. Try spraying some WD-40 into that drain hole & see if it comes out the drain hole behind the L/H riders foot peg area. If it doesn't then verify the little metal tube that passes through the fuel pump pass through isn't all rusted up inside (common problem). That pass trough metal tube being rusted shut probably isn't the issue but should be checked anyhow . TPS re-learn procedure----- *Disconnect the lead to the battery's positive post for about 3 minutes. Then *Reconnect the positive lead to the battery's positive terminal. Then *Switch on the ignition. Then *Without starting the engine, fully open the throttle once or twice so that the control unit of the BMW engine management system can register the throttle-valve positions. Then *Switch off the ignition. That's it__ Link to comment
Busdawg Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Thanks, I am out of town for a few days with work. When I get back, I will go through more troubleshooting and let you know what I find. Link to comment
Busdawg Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Thanks for all the suggestions. Here's what I did: Valve adjustment (I did it only 1500 miles ago but re-did them anyway. They may have been a little tight) TPS re-calibrated Checked all stick coils (swapped out with the 2007 GS) All checked good. Test rode for 1.5 hours Rode it again this morning for 45 minutes. So far no issues. The thing that confuses me is when the original fault occurred, why would the starter not turn over until the ignition had been cycled off-then back on? Anyway, during the test ride, I tried to switch the ESA from two-up to single rider with no success. It cycles between normal, sport and comfort settings but will not change to single helmet mode. Should I start a new thread? Kim Link to comment
Busdawg Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yeah my FPC is the black one and I've sealed the gasket with silicone grease to prevent further flooding. The idle rpm seems normal about 1000rpm. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Anyway, during the test ride, I tried to switch the ESA from two-up to single rider with no success. It cycles between normal, sport and comfort settings but will not change to single helmet mode. Morning Kim To switch the ESA for preload (from two-up to single rider, etc) the trans has to be in neutral, engine idling & bike sitting still. Otherwise it won't switch. Did you have engine running & trans in neutral? Then it takes a bit of time to actually make the change. Link to comment
Busdawg Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Update on original post and man am I pi**ed off. After pulling into the Office Max parking lot last week, the bike suddenly quit and electrical smoke began to billow out from between the forks. This was a full blown electrical fire. I finally got time this weekend to pull the Tupperware and fuel tank. Somehow a short developed in the ignition wire harness and melted a red wire all the way down into the main harness assembly. This is gonna take a lot of work on wiring and who knows what it did to the ECU. I am surprised at the lack of circuit protection. I am lucky this didn't happen on I-10. This could very well have resulted in a fatality. First contact is to BMW Motorrad USA. Next is to the NHTSA Any thoughts? Edited March 28, 2017 by Busdawg Link to comment
dirtrider Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Update on original post and man am I pi**ed off. After pulling into the Office Max parking lot last week, the bike suddenly quit and electrical smoke began to billow out from between the forks. This was a full blown electrical fire. I finally got time this weekend to pull the Tupperware and fuel tank. Somehow a short developed in the ignition wire harness and melted a red wire all the way down into the main harness assembly. This is gonna take a lot of work on wiring and who knows what it did to the ECU. I am surprised at the lack of circuit protection. I am lucky this didn't happen on I-10. This could very well have resulted in a fatality. First contact is to BMW Motorrad USA. Next is to the NHTSA Any thoughts? Morning Busdawg I might not have effected the ECU, ZFE, or other controllers if the short is prior to the ECU or controllers. My thought is that you (or whoever works on that bike) better find the place & reason for the short before repairing or replacing the wire harness or it will do it again. That large diameter Red wire between the battery & ign switch comes off of the battery as a 4.0mm wire then drops down to .5mm & (2) 2.5mm legs as it branches off into the ZFE module (3 legs to the ZFE). It also branches off at the main splice into a .75mm wire going to the ign switch. As a rule BMW doesn't protect those high amp wires exiting the battery as the load is so high it is difficult to properly protect (if they protect for the 4.0 amp wire then that still leaves no protection for the 2.5mm or .75mm wire part & if they protect for the .75mm part then then why have a 4.0mm lead out to begin with. Some motor companies use a (high amp) fusible link type wire at the battery or starter stud attachment but they still burn up the smaller branches due to shorts. Link to comment
Busdawg Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 You're right. This was a factory harness routing issue. No mods have been done to affect it. Link to comment
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