06 1150rtp lost electric while running

[Shane J.]

I a flummoxed and discombobulated. Background- I had a rough idling problem. To get to the root of it I just did a full tuneup.

I adjusted the valves, all new spark plugs, new air filter. While I was at it I removed the headlight cowling and fixed the adjuster, as well as replacing the tachometer lights. I found the right side throttle plate screw was missing and the left side had been tampered with so I did a full procedure to reset those as well as a zero =zero adjustment. The bike started fine with a little rough idle. I warmed it up and with a fan running I started working on synchronization. I spent about 30 minutes with the bike on and off a bunch of times. Then what happened, while running, the bike died, all indicators went out. The headlights, Speedo light, tach light, all out. The red dash lights are at half brightness. The RFID is gone except for the clock and that is stuck at 00 00. The 00 00 disappears after the key is on for 5 seconds. The start button does nothing. No fuses are blown. There is 12.44 volt in the battery and there was no indication of slow cranking prior to dying. I had the headlights off (rtp) while working but now they won't come on, not dim, just nothing. Same with the starter, just nothing.

Any ideas?

Shane

[Roger C]

Did you have the battery disconnected when doing all your work? Are the cables snug?

 

I had a VW once that died while driving. My problem was the alternator was not charging the battery and once it reached a certain low voltage, everything cut off.

[Shane J.]

No, the battery remained connected. I have also now found that my gs11 is unable to communicate with the bike, although all the gs11 lights say all is well with the connection.

[dirtrider]

Morning Shane

 

12.44 volts is a fairly dead battery-- what is the battery voltage with the key ON?

 

Key-on battery voltage might point us to something.

 

Do check the battery cable connections at the battery posts.

 

 

 

 

[Shane J.]

Key off, 12.44v, key on, .64v. So either the battery died midstride or, a short maybe? I have it on a charger overnight and will see what the morning brings. I have had lots of dead batteries but nothing like this.

[dirtrider]

Morning Shane

 

It could be a battery going bad OR maybe as simple as you didn't revv the engine a bit after each new re-start while working on it.

 

If your bike still has the original (gen light) high resistance bulb or someone put an LED (gen light) bulb in it then might not start charging on it's own after a restart until you slightly revv the engine a little.

 

 

[tallman]

Fuses are easy to replace, and sometimes look OK.

You list an '06 R 1150.

Last year was '05.

What year is it?

RTP?

Wiring can be grounded out at unknown due to modifications, we once had to replace the entire harness due to something similar and chasing it around for a long time w/out success.

The zero-zero is now not the first choice for most folks, no offense.

The battery is probably in need of replacement.

The maintenance on some RTP's was great, others, Frankenbike, again no offense, how long have you had it and how many miles did it have and have you put on it?

Hope you sort it, good luck.

[dirtrider]

Morning Tim

 

I have seen an 1150 RT-P sold new as a 2006. My old BMW parts book shows --

 

R1150RT (R22)

Production: 02/00-02/06 USA

[tallman]

Hmm, wonder if it was "when titled" designation.

Production of the 1150 stopped in '05.

Dunno, maybe BMW ran some more in '06 or sent the last run over later?

I'd like to see the actual production plate on the frame etc.

 

Thanks,

[Shane J.]

Tim, I have had the bike for almost three years and have put a little under twenty thousand miles on. Have replaced the clutch and transmission as well as the usual maintenance. Started idling rough last summer, hence I am trying to get back to a good baseline. I found the right side throttle plate screw missing and think that was the problem. But I won't know for sure until I can finish this tune-up.

And, yes, it is a 2006 RT-P. I have seen the discussion of model years elsewhere while doing searches. I recall someone stating that the police model 1150 stayed in production longer. It doesn't really matter to me. My bike has numerous parts off of other years, even 1100's.

Hopefully when I get out to the garage this morning I can figure this out.

D.R.- thanks for the tips, I will check the charging system.

[dirtrider]

Hopefully when I get out to the garage this morning I can figure this out.

D.R.- thanks for the tips, I will check the charging system.

 

Morning Shane J

 

If you ever go back into your RID area install the (pn-62142306126) 3 watt bulb in the gen light socket (it probably has a 1.7 watt bulb now) as that will bring the alternator on-line at an earlier RPM after starting (usually also improves could start idle right after cold start).

 

Added: or just swap the hi beam bulb & gen light bulb (that what I used to do)--- that dims the too bright at night hi beam indicator & brings the alternator on-line at a lower RPM (win/win).

Edited January 29, 2017 by dirtrider

[MarkAZ]

...install the (pn-62142306126) 3 watt bulb in the gen light socket (it probably has a 1.7 watt bulb now) as that will bring the alternator on-line at an earlier RPM after starting (usually also improves could start idle right after cold start)...

 

Hmmm...the gen light on my 1150RT will usually stay on when I first start it until I blip the throttle. After that, no problem. Would that be a symptom of this?

 

(Sorry, not meaning to hijack the original thread...)

[dirtrider]

...install the (pn-62142306126) 3 watt bulb in the gen light socket (it probably has a 1.7 watt bulb now) as that will bring the alternator on-line at an earlier RPM after starting (usually also improves could start idle right after cold start)...

 

Hmmm...the gen light on my 1150RT will usually stay on when I first start it until I blip the throttle. After that, no problem. Would that be a symptom of this?

 

(Sorry, not meaning to hijack the original thread...)

 

Morning MarkAZ

 

Yes, that is a typical of the low wattage generator light bulb. A 3 watt gen light bulb should stop that.

[roger 04 rt]

...install the (pn-62142306126) 3 watt bulb in the gen light socket (it probably has a 1.7 watt bulb now) as that will bring the alternator on-line at an earlier RPM after starting (usually also improves could start idle right after cold start)...

 

Hmmm...the gen light on my 1150RT will usually stay on when I first start it until I blip the throttle. After that, no problem. Would that be a symptom of this?

 

(Sorry, not meaning to hijack the original thread...)

 

Mark, That's just what you should do, swap the bulbs. The 3w bulb starts the alternator much faster.

 

OP,

Without the alternator charging the voltage to the injectors and coils is low, many bikes idle poorly when that happens ... that's because the bike is cold and in open loop and the Motronic tables don't compensate well enough (without Closed Loop running) for the low voltage.

[roger 04 rt]

Shane,

Although it's not your problem now, when you get the bike running, you should go back and redo the 0=0 procedure, it opens the throttle plates too far and starts with the TPS outside its operating range. The correct procedure is z=250mV and the correct TPS setting is with the GS-911 or 340 mV.

[Roger C]

For us dummies, I believe there are two (2) issues being addressed here. 1) Low voltage and 2) use of a GS-911, which I don't know what that is. Could someone explain it to me? Thanks.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Roger C

 

The low voltage is self explaining.

 

The GS-911 is basically a scan tool that hooks to your motorcycles communication port to allow certain settings & failure codes to be read or changed.

 

The GS-911 also has some basics system & ABS brake tests as well as some advanced functions. It can also read & record some of the data to be viewed later on your computer, or send to someone that can digest it, or be put into basic spread sheets for diagnostic review.

 

Added: I see that you have a BMW 1100RT so keep in mind that the GS-911 has a somewhat limited function on the old 1100 Ma 2.2 bikes (not nearly as useful on an 1100 as on an 1150 or 1200)

Edited January 30, 2017 by dirtrider

[Shane J.]

Well, it was a dead battery. So with a new Odyssey installed I soldiered on. Short version- I tried both 0=0 and 0=250 and while I ended up with 32degrees for the TPS it just would not idle or synchronize. It exhibited all the signs of too lean a mix. I bumped the tps up to 64 degrees and it would idle, but still too rough. Out of frustration I loosened the tps bolts and tapped it back and forth until the idle improved. I locked it down at the best running spot. The tps at this setting is 1.92 degrees. But it is idling better than it has in a very long time. I am not sure where my zero is now and i will probably go back over the whole thing again later, but for now I can ride. I went out and did 40 miles to see how it felt and it runs great, idles at stop signs instead of coughing and dying.

The cold start still is not ideal, but much better than it was.

Thoughts?

[avu3]

Did you verify that its charging with the new battery?

[roger 04 rt]

Well, it was a dead battery. So with a new Odyssey installed I soldiered on. Short version- I tried both 0=0 and 0=250 and while I ended up with 32degrees for the TPS it just would not idle or synchronize. It exhibited all the signs of too lean a mix. I bumped the tps up to 64 degrees and it would idle, but still too rough. Out of frustration I loosened the tps bolts and tapped it back and forth until the idle improved. I locked it down at the best running spot. The tps at this setting is 1.92 degrees. But it is idling better than it has in a very long time. I am not sure where my zero is now and i will probably go back over the whole thing again later, but for now I can ride. I went out and did 40 miles to see how it felt and it runs great, idles at stop signs instead of coughing and dying.

The cold start still is not ideal, but much better than it was.

Thoughts?

 

My thought is you're running but not correctly aligned. When everything is set up right it will start and idle nicely, adjusted per the book and at specified rpms and engine temps.

[dirtrider]

Well, it was a dead battery. So with a new Odyssey installed I soldiered on. Short version- I tried both 0=0 and 0=250 and while I ended up with 32degrees for the TPS it just would not idle or synchronize. It exhibited all the signs of too lean a mix. I bumped the tps up to 64 degrees and it would idle, but still too rough. Out of frustration I loosened the tps bolts and tapped it back and forth until the idle improved. I locked it down at the best running spot. The tps at this setting is 1.92 degrees. But it is idling better than it has in a very long time. I am not sure where my zero is now and i will probably go back over the whole thing again later, but for now I can ride. I went out and did 40 miles to see how it felt and it runs great, idles at stop signs instead of coughing and dying.

The cold start still is not ideal, but much better than it was.

Thoughts?

 

 

Morning Shane J.

 

Did you do a new a TPS retrain (relearn) after putting in the new battery?

 

 

To Do a TPS re-learn--

 

(with choke OFF)

 

 

*Remove fuse #5 for about 3 minutes, then re-install the fuse.

 

Then

 

*Switch on the ignition. (do not start engine)

 

Then

 

*Without starting the engine, fully open & close the throttle twice so that the Fueling Computer can register the throttle-valve position.

 

Then

 

*Switch off the ignition.

 

That's it, that re-teaches the Motronic where the TPS closed & open throttle is.

[Shane J.]

I would agree Roger. My wife has a 2004 and it starts and idles like one should.

[Shane J.]

Yes, I did that. I did read in Roger's dissertation on zero=250 that he believes it doesn't really do anything. I figure it can't hurt.

[tallman]

He isn't alone in thinking there are other ways.

But, to each...

Start w/valves, make sure they are correct.

TBS make sure it is correct, use a manometer or CarbTune or ilk, TwinMax is last resort.

Then proceed.

Best wishes.

[dirtrider]

Yes, I did that. I did read in Roger's dissertation on zero=250 that he believes it doesn't really do anything. I figure it can't hurt.

 

Morning Shane

 

The (0) point voltage is JUST a starting point, your main concern is to END UP with the (engine-off key-on) voltage between .340 & .365v when all is done & the idle RPM's are at the correct setting. (I used to set them to .365v when all is done & idle correct on a hot engine). Roger likes closer to .340v.

 

Just keep in mind that the meter that you use can have a BIG effect on the voltage (the more meter load then the more skewed the voltage set will be)--You need to make sure that your meter is a quality high impedance meter to get accurate voltage measurements.

 

You also need to BE DARN SURE, that when done & you think all is set correctly, that BOTH SIDE TB cams hit the Wide Open Stops at the EXACT same time when using the twist grip. (if they don't then something is STILL way off kilter)

 

[Shane J.]

Yes, I did that. I did read in Roger's dissertation on zero=250 that he believes it doesn't really do anything. I figure it can't hurt.

 

This was re: D.R.'s post about pulling fuse 5

[Shane J.]

 

 

This could be my problem, I am using a 30 year old Radio Shack digital meter. I may have to spring for something more modern and sensitive. It looks like I should avoid one that is auto ranging?

 

[Shane J.]

So with a new dvm and a redo from the beginning I was finally successful. The bike now idles smoothly without dying. It is still just a bit cold blooded but orders of magnitude better. My old dvm was reading 3-500 millivolts off on the high side. Thank you for all the tips.

[roger 04 rt]

That's good progress.

 

Your bike will start better if your fast idle lever opens your throttle the proper amount, about 3-3.5 degrees. That translates to 3 degrees/.32*90 mV + 250 mV which equals 1,090 mV. (Each 90 mV opens the throttle 0.32 degrees.)

 

Pull the fast idle lever to mid-detention position and measure the voltage between pins 1 & 4. Let us know what you get. On mine I had to add a spacer under the ferrule near the lever to be able to get the correct setting.

Edited February 2, 2017 by roger 04 rt

[Shane J.]

Next time I have the plastics off I will. I left my probe wires to the TPS in place and covered them with tape to make it easier to connect. Meanwhile I will check with the GS11.