Intro, help request 99 RT codes, AF-XiED & misfire

[avu3]

Hi All

 

A few weeks back I picked up a 99 R1000RT with 65k miles on it. I'm the 3rd owner, and the prior two were enthusiasts. Its had all the proper maintenance and has some tasteful mods (things like the AF-XiED, fuel tank quick disconnects and such) and came with the factory shop manual (which is a nice pictorial for removing stuff, but seems short on actual troubleshooting).

 

I've been riding and wrenching for over 20 years. I started with a Kawasaki, ran through some Triumphs and now have this RT.

 

The help part of my intro is that the bike isn't running right. It occasionally stumbles/misfires and will die if you're not careful. I thought it might just be old gas from sitting the past 8 months, so I ran a couple tanks through it and it hasn't helped.

 

I pulled codes and got code 1111 and 2345. While pulling codes I noticed the AF-XiED leds aren't behaving right. They all light up at power on and just sit that way. It doesn't do the yellow flash to indicate setting and then flash yellow/green when in closed loop.

 

The CCP is in place, and I did try re-seating the fuses and relays - so I'm guessing code 1111 is related to the other problems and not a cause.

 

I'm not sure if the O2 failed and that's why the AF-XiED is erroring, or vice versa... or if I just have a wiring fault. When I bought the bike the AF-XiED seemed to be working correctly.

 

Code 2345 doesn't seem to be common. The only search hits I get are the code list here, Google or other forums Even a more general "O2 shorted to 12v" on Google doesn't seem to get me much.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has seen this situation or has any suggestions for me.

 

My plan of attack is

Inspect the wiring

Remove the AF-XiED to see if that resolves the issue.

If not, replace the O2.

 

I might be tempted to reverse the AF-XiED and O2 replacement if I could figure out how to test the O2. I'm leery of just throwing another one at it and burning it up because I haven't found the actual problem.

 

I have a Clymer manual on the way. It won't be here till after Christmas though.

 

Happy holidays,

 

Scott Miller

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Scott

 

My first suggestion is to contact (PM) "roger 04 rt" on this site. He is the resident expert here on the AF-XIED on the BMW boxers. (put roger 04 rt into search at top of page here)

 

Otherwise my next suggestion would be to put it back to stock & see how it runs (maybe a bad or mis-wired AF-XIED)

 

With a bike that old I would also install a new o2 sensor as that sensor is probably well north of 15 years of age by now. (a generic universal o2 is pretty cheap & that eliminates the o2 as the cause)

 

You can test your o2 sensor (either on bike or in a bench vise) but the testing is iffy at best as the bench test doesn't show o2 response & on-vehicle usually doesn't tell you the chicken or the egg (ie has o2 failed of is fueling issue causing the 02 to send a lazy signal.

 

Unfortunately the stored codes on the old BMW 1100 (Ma 2.2 systems) were pretty useless & can't help enough to diagnose much other than a complete failure & you don't need a code to tell you something has quit working.

 

Added: one thing to check is that the o2 sensor pig tail hasn't dropped down onto the hot exhaust & is now burnt & shorted (not uncommon when o2 sensor pig tail isn't properly secured)

 

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by dirtrider

[roger 04 rt]

An AF-XIED install on an R1100RT lacks OEM connectors. As such, it needs a +12V tap to the O2 sensor (to the white wire on pin 1 of the O2 connector), it requires that the BLACK O2 wire is cut and that the two ends are properly connected to the AFXIED harness--not too hard but it must be done right. All AFXIED installs require a good ground connection to battery negative.

 

2345 Means the O2 input is shorter to +12. That could mean the AFXIED GROUND connection is bad or the unit/cable has failed (less likely).

 

1111 means it can't find a CO Pot. It may be looking because of the 2345 code or because the Coding Plug was removed or changed. Which plug is installed? It should be the Yellow Plug.

 

Check the wiring to see if it looks right. If it does you can make some tests with a DVM which I can walk you through.

 

One last thought, the O2 connector on the R1100 can become corroded so you may want to check that it's secure and in good condition.

Edited December 24, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[roger 04 rt]

The easiest way to check the O2 sensor is to let the bike get cold overnight, connect a DVM to ground and to the blue/white on the afxied, then start the bike and monitor the voltage at idle. At first the voltage may be low (100 mV) but sometime during the first 3 minutes it should reach 800-900 mV. Then after 5 minutes or when you reach 4 bars on the RID, the voltage should vary between about 100 mV and 750-800 mV.

Edited December 24, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[avu3]

Thanks DR and Roger for the help. Unfortunately, I went straight to work on it this morning before checking the forum, so I didn't do the tests as you suggested. I'll plan to do the cold startup w/AFXIED blue/white to get voltage one morning next week.

 

This morning I inspected the wiring. Everything looks fine. The AFXIED is wired right per your note and a diagram I found online.

 

The ground looks good.

 

The o2 is properly zip-tied and wasn't hanging on the exhaust or anything. I looked at the plug briefly and it looks fine, but I will put some dielectric grease in there when it goes back together for the final time.

 

I went ahead and removed the AFXIED from the circuit.

 

While I had it all apart I left fuse 5 out to clear codes.

 

On startup, the 2345 code did not come back. The 1111 code did.

 

If I understand this CCP correctly, on o2 bikes its not a relay but rather just a jumper. Mine is the correct yellow and is jumping pins 30 and 87 - the top right corner basically. I tested the CCP it and its a dead short, which strikes me as correct.

 

The pins on the CCP looked fine, but I cleaned them up and inserted/removed it a few times to clean the pins in the box just in case.

 

I cleared codes again after that and checked them before I even started it. I had 1111 (along with the expected 1122 and 1133) before I even started the bike.

 

I ran it again and got the temp up to the middle bar (that's has high as I've ever seen it). Though I didn't ride it, I did rev it a bit in the driveway. I didn't get any other codes, just the 1111

 

At this point I am not sure what is causing the 1111 code. Maybe a bad o2?

 

I am not sure about the AFXIED, but I'll put it back in the circuit and get the voltage tests you requested next week.

 

Thanks again for your time and suggestions,

 

Scott

 

[Michaelr11]

The 1111 code is for the CO potentiometer. The 1999 RT does not have a potentiometer, it was only there on the early models - maybe on the Euro models. So I think that code is normal because the CO Pot is not there.

[roger 04 rt]

Scott, You're doing all the right things. Based on what you're describing I'd like to know the voltage at the blue wire and the blue/white wire. So unless you have two DVMs measure the blue wire (output off the afxied first).

 

How did you remove the afxied, by unplugging it? If you didn't reconnect the black O2 wire that would cause code 1111.

Edited December 25, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[avu3]

The previous owner installed connectors on the wires, so it was easy to remove the afxied and restore it to factory. I'm sure all the wiring is re-connected.

 

It will be easy to re-install the afxied for further testing thanks to those connectors.

 

I borrowed a fluke, so I'll have two higher end digital meters to test with when I get to it. I'll get voltage off of both lines, the blue and the blue/white. I felt better having two digital than trying to read the scale on my analog. Its ok for stuff like seeing the sweeps or continuity, but I don't trust it for voltage measurements.

 

I'll get voltages at cold startup , 0-3 min jump and then watch for dithering at temp (5+ min).

 

Scott

[avu3]

At startup the temps were in the high 30s. I was working outside, the bike had been in the garage all night, so maybe a little warmer but not much (its not insulated or heated).

 

KOEO - cold, prior to start

BW - 0

B .47

 

Immediately after start, cold.

BW 2.77

B 2.98

 

After 1 minute running, as biked warmed up

BW was dropping - 2.52

B also dropping but more slowly 2.93

 

Continued dropping at 2 minutes running

BW 1.76

B 2.78

 

As of this time, 2 min into warm up, the AFXIED still has all three lit solid.

 

Continued dropping, at 3 minutes running

BW 1.5

B 2.56

 

Still Dropping, still in the 3 minute window. Finally got a bar of temp

Bw 1.4

B 2.4

 

 

5 minutes and still dropping. Finally have 2 bars of temp.

BW 1.28

B 2.3

AFXIED still all lights solid

 

At 6 minutes running, we finally get a voltage big drop.

BW .37

B 1.6

 

At 7 minutes running

BW came back up, while b continued to drop

BW 1.025

B 1.02

 

At about 8 minutes, both finally get where I think you expect them at idle

BW .241

B .23

 

When revved, they both move.

B .68

BW .852

The AFXIED is now behaving correctly. Red light light, yellow/green flashing back and forth.

 

I posted two videos to Youtube. The first is of the the voltages on B/BW dithering after warm up (at the 10 minute point from startup).

 

The second video is of the AF-XiED behavior after a warm start (about 12min) This one is a little hard to see due to lighting.

The lights do exactly what is described. Yellow comes on, flashes then it goes into yellow/green alternating.

 

I'm not sure what to draw from these readings.

It seems like the AF-XiED is working correctly, based both on the fact that the voltages do dither and the fact that the lights are operating correctly again once warm.

 

I don't know if there's any indicator the O2 is faulting or not. From your earlier message, I kind of expected the BW to start at 0 and climb to 1. Instead it started at 0, jumped to near 3 and then slowly fell to .6 before climbing back to 1 and eventually falling to .2 and dithering. That might have just been my inference, since we got exactly where you wanted.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Scott

[roger 04 rt]

Scott, I only have a moment, but something is wrong with the wiring or harness. I'll look at it later, think about it and get back to you. The cold voltages are not what they should be.

Edited December 26, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[roger 04 rt]

Below in red is what you should be seeing and some comments.

 

On the video, what is the fuse in the picture powering?

 

Also, you mentioned that there are two new connectors installed on the O2 sensor can you show a picture of them and the connectors on the afxied harness?

 

Edit: Why the setup seems to be working later in the sequence is unknown but the Motronic may be deciding that there is a problem with the O2 and then going looking for a CO Pot which leads to the 1111 error.

 

At startup the temps were in the high 30s. I was working outside, the bike had been in the garage all night, so maybe a little warmer but not much (its not insulated or heated).

 

KOEO - cold, prior to start Because 12V is not connected to the lambda heater, the afxied is not powered.

BW - 0 When cold the O2 is in a high resistance state and not outputting a voltage.

B .47 The AFXIED is off and the 0.47 volts is coming from the Motronic. This voltage is correct.

 

Immediately after start, cold.

BW 2.77 The nearly 3V on this and the blue wire suggests that ground is not making it from the battery negative to the AFXIED. I believe this is the problem. Without ground, the +12V going to the afxied is pulling signals to 3V. Until this is fixed, the rest of the measurements don't mean anything.

 

My suggestion is that you measure continuity from the battery ground lead through the white connector to the ground wire going into the afxied unit. I'm guessing that one of the wires going into the white connector isn't making a good connection or there is a grounding fault inside the afxied.

B 2.98

 

After 1 minute running, as biked warmed up

BW was dropping - 2.52

B also dropping but more slowly 2.93

 

Continued dropping at 2 minutes running

BW 1.76

B 2.78

 

As of this time, 2 min into warm up, the AFXIED still has all three lit solid.

 

Continued dropping, at 3 minutes running

BW 1.5

B 2.56

 

Still Dropping, still in the 3 minute window. Finally got a bar of temp

Bw 1.4

B 2.4

 

 

5 minutes and still dropping. Finally have 2 bars of temp.

BW 1.28

B 2.3

AFXIED still all lights solid

 

At 6 minutes running, we finally get a voltage big drop.

BW .37

B 1.6

 

At 7 minutes running

BW came back up, while b continued to drop

BW 1.025

B 1.02

 

At about 8 minutes, both finally get where I think you expect them at idle

BW .241

B .23

 

When revved, they both move.

B .68

BW .852

The AFXIED is now behaving correctly. Red light light, yellow/green flashing back and forth.

 

I posted two videos to Youtube. The first is of the the voltages on B/BW dithering after warm up (at the 10 minute point from startup).

 

The second video is of the AF-XiED behavior after a warm start (about 12min) This one is a little hard to see due to lighting.

The lights do exactly what is described. Yellow comes on, flashes then it goes into yellow/green alternating.

 

I'm not sure what to draw from these readings.

It seems like the AF-XiED is working correctly, based both on the fact that the voltages do dither and the fact that the lights are operating correctly again once warm.

 

I don't know if there's any indicator the O2 is faulting or not. From your earlier message, I kind of expected the BW to start at 0 and climb to 1. Instead it started at 0, jumped to near 3 and then slowly fell to .6 before climbing back to 1 and eventually falling to .2 and dithering. That might have just been my inference, since we got exactly where you wanted.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Scott

Edited December 27, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[avu3]

Here's

 

First is the wiring connections. The previous owner used connectors instead of the splices specified in the instructions. I looked at it a few times, and it seems fine - actually rather elegant.

 

There are two connectors which divide the black and white of the factory harness. One on the Motronic side, and one on the O2 side. To avoid "dividing" the white (power) wire, there's a jumper.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VwH7Hj3xOial9rVlJDVzlsVEU/view?usp=sharing

 

The left connector is going to the Motronic.

It has the the blue coming from the AFXIED joining the black, and the red power for the AFXIED (and a red bridge which is connecting the white).

 

The right connector is on the O2 side, and has the red bridge (so the white is just "tapped into" and not separated) as well as the white/blue going back to the AFXIED from the O2.

 

So while not "as specified", I think the wiring is correct.

 

The other thing to share is just the whole folder of images. I basically was taking pictures all the way along, and making notes - which is what I developed into the report I gave earlier. I don't THINK I missed anything, but you never know. The images are in order from KOEO up to the AFXIED video I shared earlier.

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1VwH7Hj3xOiSGNzOFFrenpBN2M?usp=sharing

 

Scott

 

[roger 04 rt]

The two pin connector added to the O2 sensor looks correct.

 

The other white wire and the gray wire each go to the engine case via their own wires on the other side of the OEM O2 connector.

 

Could you take a picture of the two white afxied connectors (plugged together) showing the ground lead and what is in the other side of that connector?

 

About a year ago I heard of a handful of units with a bad ground connection there. In addition to the photo it would be good if you could ohm-out that connection.

 

Based on the voltages you're measuring you may need a replacement. I think I can help make that happen.

Edited December 27, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[avu3]

Thanks again, Roger, for all your help.

 

I am not 100% sure which connector you are asking about photos for. I took several photos of the factory 6 pin axfied connector, but I am not sure I got what you wanted. Here's the folder. Black goes to black.

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1VwH7Hj3xOiTk5xQWpRZHBaaHM?usp=sharing

 

This is probably the best individual photo of the grounds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VwH7Hj3xOieUJpQXNXS24wVjA/view?usp=sharing

 

If you would like more/different please let me know. I did that in the dark, I can get it out in the light tomorrow and do a better job.

 

If you meant the added on connector, I will need to remove the tank for that, and will do it tomorrow.

 

The ground pin is a direct short, resistance of 0, on both sides of the AXFIED connector. Two photos of that in the album linked above, this one is probably best.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VwH7Hj3xOiMUlNaFJueHhwS2M/view?usp=sharing

 

Shows the meter, grounded to the negative post, and wire I'm on from the back of the connector.

 

Finally, there's a photo in that folder of the part number and what seems like a date. There's velcro over the sticker, so I didn't peel it and it might be incomplete. Let me know if I should try.

 

Thanks again,

Scott

[roger 04 rt]

Scott, The pictures and measurements all seem sound but the 3V is wrong. I've checked with Nightrider and also reviewed the wiring diagram for the harness and AFXIED. With just a few more measurements I think we can figure out what's wrong.

 

Unplug the AFXIED at the two pin connector and reconnect the O2 so that it is in stock configuration. Then measure the cold start voltages as you did earlier for the Black O2 wire, with your DVM referenced to ground also as you did earlier.

 

You should get 450 mV for a short time, then it should be 800-900 mV, then after 5 minutes it should vary between 100-800 mV approx.

 

Then reconnect the AFXIED as normally, start the bike and measure the voltage on the black ground wire, on the AFXIED side of the 6-pin connector. Then measure the voltage on the yellow, and then the yellow/green wire, which should both be ground.

 

It is looking like an internal problem in the AFXIED but I want to rule out the O2 sensor also, hence the cold start measurements.

[avu3]

Ok, Data from the next round of tests.

 

AXFIED out of the circuit, just testing the o2

 

KOEO .47

Start .47

Slowly climbs. For the first minute its peak is .74

By end of minute 2 we're at .84-.86 and basically stable.

It starts dropping slightly in minute 4 as we get 2 bars of heat. It goes down to .82

 

At 3 bars of heat in minute 5 it drops to .1 and then starts dithering. .1 to just about 1v. I took video if you want to to see this.

 

With the bike now warm, I proceeded to reinstall the AFXIED and test the black, yellow and yellow/green wires.

 

I am not sure this test is helpful. From my original test, when warm, the AFXIED worked properly. It was only during warm-up that the voltages were high/reference. I may need to repeat this test tomorrow with the bike cold.

 

Black - 0v

yellow - 0v

yellow/green - .000 / flicker .001

 

If you want those three AFXIED tests cold let me know, I'll repeat them tomorrow.

 

Scott

 

[avu3]

I apologize, I realized I never answered your fuse question.

 

Its power for the HID headlight, nothing to do with the o2 or AFXIED.

 

Here are the photos and the video I mentioned from today's tests.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1VwH7Hj3xOiamJWWVVwV0hVbEU?usp=sharing

 

The first photo showing 49.15 is the resistance through the black wire to ground on the o2. Not sure if that's reading the Motronic or the O2 or what... or if its valueable.

 

I also noticed watching the video that the lower bound on the diterhing of the o2 (no afxied) was actually as low as .02, not .1 (when revving). Again, not sure how important that is to troubleshooting.

 

Scott

[roger 04 rt]

The O2 sensor on its own is working just as it should and is not likely to be part of the problem. If you have the chance and want to make sure the O2 heater is still working you could measure the resistance between the white leads, which should be a few ohms (~4-6) but that isn't necessary now.

 

Before contacting Nightrider, a cold start test to confirm you're still getting 3V, and measuring the grounds again would be a good idea. Also, measure the AFXIED side of the red wire to make sure you're getting a full 12V there (which really means about 13.8V).

 

Steve at Nightrider is alerted and I believe he'll take care of this, just point him to this thread.

Edited December 28, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[avu3]

Thanks Roger. I'll make those measurements and proceed from there.

 

Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it.

 

Scott

[avu3]

Hi Roger

 

Before I take it out to Steve, I want to share with you. It seems like this was a wild goose chase.

 

I probed all 6 wires on the AFXIED connector from a cold start to 4 bars (7 minutes). I never saw the 3v signal on the b or bw wire.

 

I made this chart of my findings.

 

 

Unless something stands out to you, I would guess that I either have an intermittent fault in something (o2, wiring, afxied) or that I had a wiring issue which was resolved by all the connecting / disconnecting of wires.

[roger 04 rt]

Hi Roger

 

Before I take it out to Steve, I want to share with you. It seems like this was a wild goose chase.

 

I probed all 6 wires on the AFXIED connector from a cold start to 4 bars (7 minutes). I never saw the 3v signal on the b or bw wire.

 

I made this chart of my findings.

 

 

Unless something stands out to you, I would guess that I either have an intermittent fault in something (o2, wiring, afxied) or that I had a wiring issue which was resolved by all the connecting / disconnecting of wires.

 

Rick, All columns are exactly as they should be. Although a bit of a goose chase, we all learned something along the way. BTW, the fact that the Blue/White dither is 0.7-0.8 shows that the stock O2 sensor is staying in the rich part of the range.

 

I suggest that you remove fuse 5 for ten minutes as your adaptive values may have been upset during the period of uncertainty.

Edited December 28, 2016 by roger 04 rt

[roger 04 rt]

Scott, Another rider PM'd me to remind me that in the early days of the AFXIED he had a harness with an intermittent ground wire. Your symptoms are similar to that and although it hasn't come up again, I would make a good inspection of all the crimps for the ground wire connections at the battery lug and both pins of the 6-pin white connectors.

[avu3]

I will check the ground wire. The AF-XiED connector seems in good repair, I didn't take pictures, but I did take a good look at it before I unhooked it the first time.

 

Fuse 5 is out now, later tonight after a good day's chilling I'll repeat the cold start experiment on a cleared ECU.

 

And I agree, we've documented a pretty precise and detailed troubleshooting path with documented appropriate values, should anyone have trouble with their AF-XiED (or their O2 for that matter) in the future. I just feel badly I drug you through all that and involved Steve when it appears there is nothing wrong (or that whatever is is intermittent).

 

Scott

[SAS]

Hi Scott,

 

Just remember that this and other forums are all about helping, and Roger is a great help, and is willing to go the extra mile when it comes to trouble shooting problems. Roger has helped me in the past and I appreciate him. Oh and dirtrider you are also awesome!

 

The bottom line is, you have narrowed down your problem and that is the important part.

Edited December 29, 2016 by SAS

[avu3]

Its been cold and wet here, so its been tough to work on the bike, but I did get the new o2 fitted today. Crimped, not soldered!

 

I think, as D.R. mentioned early on, the o2 was old and getting lazy. Now, the AF-XiED lights blink rapidly back and forth at idle. Before they just kind of blinked maybe once every few seconds. Now its constant.

 

A video of this

 

Its all back together now. I'm not sure if the AF-XiED was a victim of the bad o2 or something else was going on. I'll need to do some riding and be ready to do some of the pin-point tests Roger walked me through should a fault re-occur. Now that I know how its wired, it will be easy to make a jumper to take it out of the circuit at the plug for further testing as well.

 

Scott

[roger 04 rt]

Scott, it could have been the O2 or it could have been a bad connection somewhere in the custom, two pin connector made by the prior owner. Now that it seems to be working right, reset the ECU by pulling fuse 5 for 10 minutes, that will reset any bad adaptives.