thinking, just thinking

[JamesW]

Hi guys, Like the subject says I'm only thinking about it. Last summer I sold my '04RT after acquiring a pristine low mileage (900) 2010 FJR1300A. At first I loved the FJR, at first. Now, after a few thousand miles I'm not so sure. The FJR is all about one thing that being the motor with its smooth high power delivery. On a sunny day on a smooth road all seems perfect but you let the road surface get a bit harsh and things begin to deteriorate. Then there is the annoying tendency for the front forks to bottom out under moderate to hard braking on that rough road, not nice.

 

And then there is removal/install of the cheap, in comparison, plastic body work with its bazillion plastic fasteners EVERYWHERE and I start to wonder what have I done.

 

Another thing I never really thought much about is lack of knowledgeable dealer support for the FJR. Lots of Yamaha dealers but most never see an FJR and have no clue about the bike. Stories about dealer screw ups when servicing are many. The owner had best be mechanically inclined or have a high tolerance for frustration which I don't. No way would I take one of these bikes to a dealer for the valve check at 26K miles.

 

So, I'm in the thinking about a new R1200RT stage, only thinking but not yet real hard just a little. I'm really not interested in all the whistles and bells like traction control and electronic adjust on the fly suspension so I am considering a wethead with just the basic option package. How easy do you think it would be to find a bike without the $3200 package? I don't worry about resale because I keep a bike for longer than 10 years and I'm just not into whistles and bells as in what I view as gizmos.

 

At around $19.5K the R1200 is competitive with a new FJRES the ES being the gizmo loaded version of the FJR which I could care less about. I've been watching posts on this forum and it seems the new generation of BMW bikes is much improved in the reliability department especially when compared to the oilhead. Looks like BMW got their act together wouldn't you say?

[realshelby]

James, you are far from the first to be let down by the lack of.....something the FJR doesn't seem to give. There was a time they were certainly faster and more reliable, I think Yamaha missed an opportunity to build on that.

 

Forget what you know about the BMW RT from 2013 and before. The new liquid cooled RT is probably as reliable as a new vehicle could be. No major failures or real patterns. Nice to not hear of owners stranded!

 

If you can get around price comparison, you have won the first battle. You cannot compare the FJR, C14, even some of the exotic names to the RT for all around quality, performance, and yes value. I say value because if you spend $5000 less on an FJR and then are not happy with it, was that really cheaper?

 

Get the options. While I am quite happy without shift assist and central locking, I know when I sell the bike there will be some that wanted that. If I had those options I would still have had the pleasure of using those options and over time they cost so little per year. Don't try to discount out options on a bike like this. Some are the things that give it the RT brand. You WILL find they are more useful than you now think.

[reg26]

Coming from two previous FJR's and then purchasing a 2015 RT fully loaded I can tell you that the RT IS everything you are looking for. You can ride it all day long and still feel great at the end of the day.It will smoke an FJR with acceleration using shift assist also :-) . My wife and I stop half as much as we used to on trips only because we are so comfortable and less fatigued on the RT. Go for a long test ride or better yet rent one for a few days, thats what sold me on the RT

[gordiet]

Totally agree MR. WERKS. The new RT does it all and does it well.

 

GT

[John in VA]

Chances are near zero that you'd find a stripped RT in dealer stock. Best course would be a special factory order to your specifications -- get the color and options you want.

 

I think traction control is standard on the base RT (basic Rain and Road modes) and to me isn't a bell/whistle gizmo, although you can turn it off.

 

I have lots of options on my '16 that I wouldn't necessarily have ordered but the year-end deals on loaded bikes made that moot, and I find that I like and use most of them.

[Bill_Walker]

Hi guys, Like the subject says I'm only thinking about it. Last summer I sold my '04RT after acquiring a pristine low mileage (900) 2010 FJR1300A. At first I loved the FJR, at first. Now, after a few thousand miles I'm not so sure. The FJR is all about one thing that being the motor with its smooth high power delivery. On a sunny day on a smooth road all seems perfect but you let the road surface get a bit harsh and things begin to deteriorate. Then there is the annoying tendency for the front forks to bottom out under moderate to hard braking on that rough road, not nice.

 

You can probably fix that with $1-2K of suspension work. See, for example, the second testimonial on this page (Traxxion Dynamics) or the rider comments on Race Tech upgrades here. Just sayin'. I've got Ohlins shocks on my RT, and they made a world of difference.

[DMilan]

Hi guys, Like the subject says I'm only thinking about it. Last summer I sold my '04RT after acquiring a pristine low mileage (900) 2010 FJR1300A. At first I loved the FJR, at first. Now, after a few thousand miles I'm not so sure. The FJR is all about one thing that being the motor with its smooth high power delivery. On a sunny day on a smooth road all seems perfect but you let the road surface get a bit harsh and things begin to deteriorate. Then there is the annoying tendency for the front forks to bottom out under moderate to hard braking on that rough road, not nice.

 

You can probably fix that with $1-2K of suspension work. See, for example, the second testimonial on this page (Traxxion Dynamics) or the rider comments on Race Tech upgrades here. Just sayin'. I've got Ohlins shocks on my RT, and they made a world of difference.

 

JamesW

 

If it's really just the suspension that's buggin' you,

this man just gave you some good advice there...

 

Don't think you'll find the body panels on the LCRT to be notably more robust.... don't know about the total count though.

 

But, if it's the roundel you crave...and I understand that, then there's only one thing to do.

 

Good luck

Enjoy the ride

 

[tallman]

James,

The money factor, as I said 10 years ago, will most likely come back upon resale/trade.

You said the bike will stay 10 years of so and not a factor, but even them value on resale/trade will favor BMW.

But, you know all this.

Get a test ride, find your best price, trade the FJR, and enjoy.

Welcome back.

[JamesW]

 

JamesW

 

"If it's really just the suspension that's buggin' you,

this man just gave you some good advice there...

 

Don't think you'll find the body panels on the LCRT to be notably more robust.... don't know about the total count though.

 

But, if it's the roundel you crave...and I understand that, then there's only one thing to do".

 

Yes, I have given some thought to a suspension upgrade and it would be expensive. If I were to go this route I would most likely take the FJR to a shop and let the pros deal with it at least where the front suspension is concerned.

 

I used to say choice words when it came to dealing with the tupperware on my '04RT but after dealing with the panels on a generation 2 FJR..... And then I helped my neighbor replace the left side panel after a drop on his 2015 generation 3 FJR and I don't curse my gen2 bike anymore.

 

This morning I found out how un-popular a basic model R1200RT really is. Might even be next to impossible to order one. There is a dealer in the Puget sound area that won't even order one without a $2K non-refundable deposit. That's because if the buyer were to back out the dealer would be stuck holding the bag, so to speak.

 

As I say I'm only just thinking about this for now and not really thinking too hard.

 

Thanks for the comments.

Edited December 21, 2016 by JamesW

[NoelCP]

James,

 

I am one who didn't want the total US package for a new '16 RT so I can relate to what you are saying. Mine was ordered in January '16 and arrived for delivery on March 18th. I bought the bike in part to do a 10K mile x-country trip which I did w/ my brother, leaving June 4 and returning June 26. He was riding a '15 FJR which he concluded was his all-tae favorite ride. He had put at least 450K miles on RTs, another 100K or so on a 2002 RS. He loved the smooth power plant on the FJR. Having been away from riding for 28y I listened carefully to his rationale for his sentiment towards his FJR, so I did 3 test rides on the new RT and a new FJR and concluded the RT was the better machine for me. It came down mostly to ergos and a few features that I found too hard to ignore in the RT over the FJR. Also, I have an excellent BMW shop 14m from my home, and that played a role too.

 

I ordered my RT w/o the audio package, didn't want anything to do w/ keyless ride, could care less about central locking, could not stand the looks of the bulbous chromed muffler, and in the end decided against Shift Assist. My '16 RT now has 17,350m, and is equipped with GPS Prep of course, Dynamic ESA & Ride Modes Pro, heated seats/grips, stainless muffler, TPM, extra accessory socket. I have discovered clutchless shifting w/o Shift Assist Pro is easy to do w/ upshifting and shift both quickly and smoothly, so I'm OK w/ not having SAP from the factory, though it can be added for about $700 as a retrofit--it would have been I think $500 if ordered w/ SAP.

 

I plan to keep this Wundercycle until it's too heavy to move around for me, so buying features just to make resale more attractive doesn't matter to me. Instead of buying those features I took the money and put it into Nav V, a 3-horn configuration which is really loud, a side stand enlarger, some blind spot mirrors which were a grand total of $6 and are really nice and super effective, the right-side cubby parts which are part of the audio package, and that's about it. No need for a new screen, new seat--the bike is close to perfect as delivered. Very tempted to put the Clearwater lights up under the mirrors though, so may use some of that saved $$ for those as well.

 

Good luck on your decision. The '17 RT will have ABS Pro which is real attractive and they have dampened some of the clunk that happens when you shift from neutral to 1st, but otherwise should be the same. My RT has been trouble-free so far and was a total dream to ride x-country thru all sorts of roads. Can't wait to get out touring again when the weather improves!

 

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by NoelCP

[RTinNC]

James .... I have been riding BMW's since 2000 and have been ONLY BMW since about 2006. From 1990 when I started riding to 2006 I had owned Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda. I continually found the dealer service terrible. Yes ... lots of dealer scattered around but most times as you mentioned the tech. was an apprentice who had never worked on my model bike! The experience with BMW is just the opposite. The tech. who has worked on my bikes since 2000 has always been a BMW Master Tech and until just last year had been the very same tech. I make an appointment with the dealer for service and can wait for the service to be completed! Oh ... and if I want a loaner bike I can get one. Try to find that in any metric brand dealer. Two months ago I picked up my 2016 RT and am very happy with it. YES ... there are some things about my 2006 I liked better but the new motor is great. Mine was purchased as a leftover so I had limited choice of features but I DID NOT want keyless and central locking which my bike did not have and I did want the chrome exhaust and the dealer happily made the swap for me. I just thing the chrome muffler looks more attractive and have had the chrome on every BMW so far. It has most ever other feature available and I could do without the audio and hill start thing. But for $19K I was real happy with the deal I got and added 5 years extended warranty or less than $1000 more. So I am set for 8 years now!! Heck who know what will be in 8 years! The RT is a great platform with great BMW dealers ... as least in my experience but as always YMMV!

 

Good luck!

[JamesW]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've decided to keep the FJR at least for now and I guess part of the reason is I do like the appearance of the bike and that IL4 with its smoothness and power delivery is very addictive. Oh, I may have found a good Yamaha dealer for services I can't handle. Funny thing is they have a trained BMW tech on staff and regularly work on beemers as well although they don't sell them.

 

Also, on the plus side I still have my very pristine and low mileage (7100 miles) '93 R1100RSL upon which I just installed new matched Bosch EV14 injectors same as found on the new BMW's, Spiegler brake lines, 22" Cee Bailey windscreen, and new teflon insulated HES wiring. Last year it was the Russell Day Long saddles. So, the roundel still sits in the garage.

 

I might yet look into suspension changes to the FJR.

[Chal De Cecco]

James: The FJR is a fairly sound bike but the front suspension could do with a basic re-valving and spring modification. Straight line speed is uncontested but it's weight does cause concern in tight/twisty conditions. It's there where the new Beemers make it easy to keep the FJR well behind you.

 

The suspension upgrade will cost you but won't break the bank. I would do the mod first before considering rolling a new Beemer into the garage.........

[JamesW]

James: The FJR is a fairly sound bike but the front suspension could do with a basic re-valving and spring modification. Straight line speed is uncontested but it's weight does cause concern in tight/twisty conditions. It's there where the new Beemers make it easy to keep the FJR well behind you.

 

The suspension upgrade will cost you but won't break the bank. I would do the mod first before considering rolling a new Beemer into the garage.........

 

You are correct! Handling is where the BMW outshines the FJR. I can actually keep my neighbor on his '15 FJR behind me in the curves with my '93. Of course it's a different story when we come to a straight section of road. He puts it in sport mode and blows by me like Grant took Richmond.

[tallman]

Actually, "like Grant took Richmond" isn't an endorsement.

 

The time, number of casualties, atrocities that the citizens of Richmond were a part of as the alcohol was destroyed and commissaries of food/supplies were discovered, and the fact Grant regretted the battle at Cold Harbor for the rest of his life would indicate the issues.

 

Does the FJR go faster in a straight line than the first yr oilhead?

Yes.

If the ride is as ugly as the campaign to capture Richmond was, sell it.

Edited December 30, 2016 by tallman

[DMilan]

Actually, "like Grant took Richmond" isn't an endorsement.

 

The time, number of casualties, atrocities that the citizens of Richmond were a part of as the alcohol was destroyed and commissaries of food/supplies were discovered, and the fact Grant regretted the battle at Cold Harbor for the rest of his life would indicate the issues.

 

Does the FJR go faster in a straight line than the first yr oilhead?

Yes.

If the ride is as ugly as the campaign to capture Richmond was, sell it.

 

Ouch..

OP.. and there you were, just innocently trying to add some colorful metaphor to your thoughts.

 

Since you originally mentioned fasteners and such, I thought of this thread as I read the following one.

You probably already saw it. Funny.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=977206&gonew=1#UNREAD

Edited December 30, 2016 by DMilan

[LAF]

If you want that FJR to rock your world call Lee at Traxxion Dynamics and get a set of AK 47's in your front forks and a rear shock of your choice both sprung for your weight. Those two things will give you all you will ever be able to use on a FJR. Once those are set for sag and you start working with the adjustments you will amazed. Mine came all but perfect and the recommended range was right on. I loved my 2010 FJR done this way. I can only have one bike so it went to get the 15 RT. It is a super bike, solid runner and that 4 is a thing of beauty. Two Brothers exhaust, a PC V with Auto Tune, PAIR capped, and a K&N filter and it ran like a scalded dog.

[NoelCP]

You are correct! Handling is where the BMW outshines the FJR. I can actually keep my neighbor on his '15 FJR behind me in the curves with my '93. Of course it's a different story when we come to a straight section of road. He puts it in sport mode and blows by me like Grant took Richmond.

 

Take a peek at how 2014+ RT compares w/ FJR. It's pretty close now for straightaways. The FJR was 2013, RT 2014. I don't know if the RTW was tested using shift assist, but if now all bets are off on this:

 

0-60mph: RT: 3.33s, FJR 3.18s

0-100: RT: 7.72s, FJR 7.61s

 

FJR is a fine work of rock solid engineering and it's no wonder they are well represented in Iron Butt. We should see more RTs now in IB since their reliability seems to be right up there now. For pricing w/ FJR-ES 2016 v my RTW the price difference was really only about $2,600 or so more for RTW.

Edited January 5, 2017 by NoelCP

[reg26]

I have owned two previous FJR's and enjoyed them both but after purchasing my 2015 RT I would swear the RT is quicker mainly because of the shift assist. Just hold the throttle open and click up thru the gears it seems to get to 100 allot faster than my FJR ever did but I have no proof

[NoelCP]

but after purchasing my 2015 RT I would swear the RT is quicker

 

Those stats above came from MCN from 2014 performance data, and I'm presuming they're pretty accurate except for the role of the rider involved. What I've never thought thru is this, with regard to Shift Assist Pro: since HP increases as you approach the optimal RPM, who gets to maximum freeway onramp speed quicker, assuming you're using SAP like most, which is to use the clutch for AT LEAST the first 2 shifts, the rider who shifts, or the rider who, for example once in 3rd gear and STAYS in 3rd gear and revs the motor up to 7,750rpm where the boxer reaches it's top HP, with max torque at 6,500rpm. I want to say in 3rd gear at 6,500rpm your moving around 75mph or so, can't remember because typically I'm in 4th gear for this scenario.

 

I say 'thought thru' because I don't have SAP equipped, but I do shift w/o using the clutch quite often between 4-5, 5-6, and it's both very fast by comparison to clutched shifts, and quite smooth, that is, not jerky.

Edited January 5, 2017 by NoelCP