R1100RT will not start after I adjusted Valves.

[Bhanaur]

Hi guys it was my first time adjusting valve on my 97 R1100RT. I thought I did a good job. Then I got ambitious and tried to clean one of the fuel Injector (right side). Now Bike will not start. It flutters and makes a lot of ttttttttttttt noise. What might have gone wrong?

Thanks for your help.

[dirtrider]

Hi guys it was my first time adjusting valve on my 97 R1100RT. I thought I did a good job. Then I got ambitious and tried to clean one of the fuel Injector (right side). Now Bike will not start. It flutters and makes a lot of ttttttttttttt noise. What might have gone wrong?

Thanks for your help.

 

Morning Bhanaur

 

Lots could have gone wrong.

 

First thing is please explain the " ttttttttttttt noise" is that sound out the exhaust or the starter making that noise?

 

Also, tell us if/how far you moved the valve adjustment screws (a little or a lot-- all or just some??)

 

If you moved the valve adjuster screws more than just a bit then you might have an issue there.

 

[Bhanaur]

Thanks DR. The TTTTTTTTT sound is like fluttering sound which seems to come from starter area. Forgive my inability to convert sound in to words. Its like fast/hard rustling. I had never heard that from my bike. I moved all of them to a point when feeler gauge was having friction. I Think I have moved screws more than just a bit.

Bhanaur.

[rxcrider]

I suspect you made a mistake in the adjustment. Please give some details on how you performed the adjustment. Include items like:

Did you take the plastics off to do the adjustment?

How did you find TDC for each cylinder?

Was there free-play at the rockers before you made the adjustment?

Did you tighten or loosen them?

Could you easily reinsert the feeler gauge after the jam nuts were tightened?

What size feeler gauges did you use for the intake & exhaust?

[joeb]

Howdy Bhanaur

 

Not sure of spec on your bike but the intake and exhaust valves on my rt have totally different adjustments. Are you sure you put the correct clearance on the correct valve ( if applicable )?

 

[Bhanaur]

Thanks Joeb,

It has intake valve clearance of 0.15mm and exhaust 0.30. I was sure but I am going to check it again.

[dirtrider]

Thanks DR. The TTTTTTTTT sound is like fluttering sound which seems to come from starter area. Forgive my inability to convert sound in to words. Its like fast/hard rustling. I had never heard that from my bike. I moved all of them to a point when feeler gauge was having friction. I Think I have moved screws more than just a bit.

 

Afternoon Bhanaur

 

That sounds like the starter solenoid is chattering as you push the starter button? (is that the sound?)

 

 

If it is the solenoid chattering that usually points to a low or partially dead battery.

 

Try charging the battery the trying to start it again.

 

You are going to have to try and find a way to tell us IF the engine is turning over & sputtering or it isn't cranking over at all--without that defined we really can't help you much over the internet as we can't see or hear the bike from here.

[Bhanaur]

Hi rxcrider,

 

I took plastic off to get to the bold for engine rotation. I removed small plastic to check the TDC. I then opened valve cover cleaned it. Then I turned the engine to see OT and the line in the middle. I slowly started turning engine till OT appeared and the line was in the middle. I then placed feeler gauges intake and exhaust valve valves, loosened the box nut and tighten the valve screw with hex wrench and felt feeler gauges by moving it up and down till a smooth friction was felt. I did this first with intake valves then with exhaust valve. Back and forth. then I pushed valve screw in and tightened the box nut. I repeated this for other side. Starting from turning engine to find OT and adjusting valves. Then I put val;ve covers and cleaned fuel injector and tried to start.

[Bhanaur]

Hi DR. Battery was fully charged. I think engine is not turning over. I am going to record that sound and send you via email. That way you will know about the sound. You can reply to this email for me to have your email address"

dinesh.naruka@gmail.com

[Jim Moore]

When you adjusted the valves, how did you figure out which side to start on?

[Bhanaur]

Hi rxcrider,

further to my previous reply. There was free play in one of the intake valves. I tighten them.

I will check tonight and check it. ( I think I was able reinsert feeler gauges with some friction) but will confirm tomorrow morning.

Regards,

[Bhanaur]

I was following a valve adjustment guide book for dummies. I started from right side then cam to left side of the bike.

[dirtrider]

Hi DR. Battery was fully charged. I think engine is not turning over. I am going to record that sound and send you via email. That way you will know about the sound. You can reply to this email for me to have your email address"

dinesh.naruka@gmail.com

 

Afternoon Bhanaur

 

 

Sorry I don't give my personal E-Mail out.

 

But you can attach your recording in a PM to me through this site.

[Bhanaur]

OK. Will do. Thanks.

[rxcrider]

Shame on me for reading more into your first post than was there. I was imagining an engine cranking over making the sound you were describing, but you never said it was cranking over. Sorry for the potentially misguided reasoning.

[Jim Moore]

Did you check to see that the rocker was lose on the side you started on? When you line up the OT mark you still need to see which side is loose so you know to start on that side. Then you turn the engine to OT again and do the other side. Apologies if you know all this already.

[dirtrider]

Evening Bhanaur

 

Just a thought-

 

It doesn't account for the chattering but I have seen a few 1100's not start after a valve adjustment due to having bike on centerstand & side stand DOWN (is the side stand up?)

 

 

[Bhanaur]

Thanks really for help. I am going redo it. to see if it helps.

[Bhanaur]

It was yesterday. I will have to check it again. And rule out the possibility of kick stand.

[Bhanaur]

rxcrider lol. Its my fault. I am not very familiar with many terminology and feel inadequate in describing sounds in English. you know its my third language.

[Michaelr11]

rxcrider lol. Its my fault. I am not very familiar with many terminology and feel inadequate in describing sounds in English. you know its my third language.

 

Bhanaur - North Carolina is a pretty big state. If you got a little more specific, there might be some local members that could help on site. Are you a member of the BMW Tarheel Travelers? They're a NC BMWMOA club With members concentrated in Raleigh, Fayetteville and Greensboro - other areas too.

 

[SAS]

When you put the engine at top dead center (OT) line in center of hole, the cylinder you are working on should have all the valves loose, not just one.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Thanks DR. The TTTTTTTTT sound is like fluttering sound which seems to come from starter area. Forgive my inability to convert sound in to words. Its like fast/hard rustling. I had never heard that from my bike. I moved all of them to a point when feeler gauge was having friction. I Think I have moved screws more than just a bit.

 

Afternoon Bhanaur

 

That sounds like the starter solenoid is chattering as you push the starter button? (is that the sound?)

 

Other possibility is a collision between the pinion and the flywheel ring gear, i.e. the starter pinion isn't able to achieve a mesh condition. My recollection of that sound doesn't quite match the OP's description, but it would aso come from the starter area. To eliminate this possibility, try rotating the engine a bit (put it in a high gear and roll forward a few inches so that the crankshaft gets nudged a bit). Then try starting.

[rxcrider]

If you are able to shoot a video and put it on youtube or similar and share the link in a post here it might help us point you in the right direction.

 

When you put turn the engine to the OT mark on the flywheel:

 

- One cylinder should have freeplay at all four rocker arms (Top Dead Center) This is the one you should be adjusting.

 

- The other cylinder should have no freeplay at all with the valves open slightly (overlap) This one should not be adjusted until the crankshaft is spun 360 degrees to bring this cylinder to TDC.

 

If that wasn't the case when you started, I'd use a long screwdriver through the sparkplug hole to follow the piston travel and verify that the piston is at the top of its stroke when the flywheel indicator shows OT. I worked on a bike this summer that was mis-assembled by the last person to have it apart and the flywheel wasn't aligned with the crankshaft properly. That probably / hopefully isn't the case, but if the valve lash seemed very tight when you started, I'd check it to be safe.

Edited November 15, 2016 by rxcrider

[Bhanaur]

Thanks, all were lose to the point I could put feeler gauges in but one was really lose where feeler gauge will not stay.

[rxcrider]

perfect - good starting point. Did you use two feeler gauges at a time so both valves on a single rocker arm were adjusted together? If so, I wouldn't rush to redo the adjustment until we have an idea of what the sound is and verify if the engine is cranking ,but not starting or what it is doing exactly.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by rxcrider

[Bhanaur]

Guys here is the sound I get.

[Bhanaur]

I did. I inserted all four feeler gauges (both intake and exhaust valves), and then proceeded to tighten the one which will not hold the feeler gauge. Then I tried to feel both intake by moving gauge up and down with some friction. After adjusting these two I proceeded to have same feeling with both exhaust valves.

 

Here is the sound I get.

 

[rxcrider]

That is sounds like starter / solenoid chatter. I'd start by verifying voltage at rest, at key on and when you attempt to start it. Check voltage between the battery posts and also between the starter lug and the a starter case or mounting screw.

 

For good measure, verify that you can still turn the motor over by hand.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Bhanaur

 

I can see the dash lights flicker in cadence with the chatter so that sort of points to the starter (or starter solenoid) chattering.

 

The dash lights stay somewhat lit so you probably have enough battery voltage.

 

You didn't PIN the engine at TDC did you?--If you did then did you remove the pin??

 

Otherwise definitely put a wrench on the front crankshaft nut & verify that the crankshaft will turn 2 complete revolutions. (don't force it or you could bend a valve)

 

Are any of the valve adjusters set lower than the others, or turned in to be at or below the top of the nuts?

 

As a double check on your valve adjustment--remove both spark plugs, then stick a long pencil into one of the spark plug holes (eraser first), then slowly turn the engine over until the pencil is out as afar as it will travel. (this is TDC, or very close to it)

 

Now shake all the valve adjusters on both sides (one side needs to have all 4 rocker arms loose)-- IF neither side has loose feeling rocker arms then you did something wrong on the valve adjustment.

 

If one side has play in all 4 rocker arms then stick the pencil back in & rotate the crankshaft one complete rotation until the pencil is out as far as it will go again. NOW the other side should have 4 loose rocker arms (if they aren't then you did something wrong on the valve adjustment.

[rxcrider]

dirtrider - I forgot to remove the TDC flywheel pin on my bike once and was greeted by a thunk & electric hum from the locked starter as I would expect to happen. Have you seen a locked engine cause a starter solenoid to not engage fully & chatter? I made the suggestion to make sure the crank can rotate as a long shot and really didn't expect anyone to join me on that path.

[Bhanaur]

Thanks a lot DR. I got a bit busy in office. Sorry for delayed reply. I will follow your instructions and will be back to let you know.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Bhanaur

[dirtrider]

dirtrider - I forgot to remove the TDC flywheel pin on my bike once and was greeted by a thunk & electric hum from the locked starter as I would expect to happen. Have you seen a locked engine cause a starter solenoid to not engage fully & chatter? I made the suggestion to make sure the crank can rotate as a long shot and really didn't expect anyone to join me on that path.

 

Afternoon rxcrider

 

With a fully charged good battery it will probably just try to motor the starter & hum away.

 

If the battery is old, low, or lacking in cranking amps then a locked up engine can pull the system voltage low enough to chatter the solenoid during cranking attempt.

[Bhanaur]

I need to check the battery. Even it is fully charged but it is an old battery.

[Michaelr11]

I need to check the battery. Even it is fully charged but it is an old battery.

 

Any battery, even a new faulty one, can show a float voltage of 12+ volts but when a load is applied to it - like trying to start - the voltage drops way down and won't turn the starter. A volt meter on the battery when someone pushes the start button will tell a lot.

 

Have you turned the motor over manually using the either the alternator pulley bolt or the rear tire? This will tell us if the motor is free to turn.

 

If the motor turns over manually, have you tried to jump the battery?

[Bhanaur]

No I did not . but I can try doing that. Or should I wait for you tomorrow.

[Michaelr11]

Well, if the motor won't turn over manually then my visit to look at the bike may be short. I am working on the assumption that the battery is shot, but if the motor is locked up I won't have much insight unless the cause is obvious.

[Bhanaur]

I was able to turn over engine manually.

[Michaelr11]

Bad battery.

 

I visited with Bhanaur and his R1100RT today. We went through his steps to check and adjust his valves. They were done correctly. He removed the valve covers and we verified that the valves were set at .15 and .30 (slightly looser). An old Odyssey battery had a resting voltage of 11.7 volts and dropped to under 9.5 when the key was turned On. I brought a used 3 year old AGM battery with me, resting voltage 12.8 volts. Once he got it installed, the motor cranked over and started.

[AnotherLee]

Well done, Michael!

[Bhanaur]

Hi guys, As Michael has informed that my bike is now up and running. I am so thankful to all (Dirtrider, rxcrider, Joeb, Jim Moore and the other Lee) of your expert advice, Prompt help and interest. A special thank to Michael who was able to travel to me and help me fix the bike. His generosity is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot guys and happy riding.

Bhanaur

[indy]

For curiosities sake, how old is the battery?

 

I have a 4+ year old Odyssey battery that I think is on it's way out. Doesn't turn the engine over as well as it used to.

After owning one, I'm not convinced that they're all cracked up to be what they say they are.

 

Indy

[Lowndes]

For curiosities sake, how old is the battery?

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I have a 4+ year old Odyssey battery that I think is on it's way out. Doesn't turn the engine over as well as it used to.

After owning one, I'm not convinced that they're all cracked up to be what they say they are.

 

Indy

 

Indy, and Bhanaur - I had a very similar situation back in July. My Odyssey PC680 wouldn't start my bike one morning so I bought a BatteryTINDER, connected it and let it charge for several days. It still would not start mi bike. I figured the battery was "DEAD" and ordered a new PC680.

 

After reading more about AGM batteries, charging, and my bike's (R1100S) charging system, I purchased a BatteryMINDer charger-desulfator, Mod# 2012-AGM (Amazon $63.23), made specifically for AGM batteries and their optimum charging rates.

 

The old BatteryTINDER was demoted to my lawnmower and the BatteryMINDer is now connected to the bike whenever it's parked at home.

 

Just for the heck of it, I connected the BatteryMINDer to the old dead PC680 and left it for a day or two. When I checked it again, it was fully charged and acting like a new battery. It is now powering a friend's old R75/6 and doing well!!

 

Indy - I've noticed that even after three full days riding, the battery does not indicate a full charge. The R1100 charging system does not charge at the correct voltage for an AGM, but lower. After an hour or so on the BatteryMINDer, it is fully charged and the 'MINDer changes over to "maintenance mode" and the desulfator cycle.

 

You might want to read about the AGM batteries, battery sulfation and the AGM charging requirements on the BatteryMINDer website, batteryminder.

 

I'm not connected to BatteryMINDer in any way except as a Very satisfied customer.

 

BHanaur - I'm glad you are up and running!!

 

Regards,

 

Lowndes

 

[Jake]

After reading more about AGM batteries, charging, and my bike's (R1100S) charging system, I purchased a BatteryMINDer charger-desulfator, Mod# 2012-AGM (Amazon $63.23), made specifically for AGM batteries and their optimum charging rates.

 

Well, that explains why I feel my 6 Battery Tenders really don't seem to work worth a damn. Good tip, don't know how I missed it until now. A little searching shows similar stories across the motoforums going back quite a few years. Oh well, more shopping to do.

 

Great job on the fix, Michael.

[nrp]

After reading more about AGM batteries, charging, and my bike's (R1100S) charging system, I purchased a BatteryMINDer charger-desulfator, Mod# 2012-AGM (Amazon $63.23), made specifically for AGM batteries and their optimum charging rates.

 

Well, that explains why I feel my 6 Battery Tenders really don't seem to work worth a damn. Good tip, don't know how I missed it until now.

I've had good luck with the 750 mA Battery Tenders here on several Odyssey batteries for Minnesota winter storage etc for about 8 years. The only thing is they require about +8V before they will even turn on. This is to protect the battery from being accidently connected w reversed polarity.

[rxcrider]

Odyssey also has battery recovery protocols which may save the one removed from the bike.

 

http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ProceduretorecoverdeeplydischargedODYSSEY.pdf

 

http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf

[RoanokeRider]

For curiosities sake, how old is the battery?

 

I have a 4+ year old Odyssey battery that I think is on it's way out. Doesn't turn the engine over as well as it used to.

After owning one, I'm not convinced that they're all cracked up to be what they say they are.

 

Indy

I replaced a Oddesy earlier this year at 7 years and 10 mons old. Still working, just not holding quite a full charge. I always have used a battery Tender Jr. YMMV.

[Bhanaur]

Thanks guys for good tips.

Indy it was 4 + year old.

[rcassin]

Next time I am stuck, i need Michaelr11 or DR to come to West Point NY ! Lol...Rob

 

[dan cata]

Did you lock the engine on the starter side and forgot the lock in the hole there?

 

Dan.