JASO MA2

[Gene#3]

Now I know a lot of you folks wont believe even distilled water bought at a Walmart can be used on a BMW... but I've observed first hand Shell Rotella T6 with the JASO MA2 seal of approval. The puck has been dropped... let the sticks fly!

[Alfred02]

I am about to do an oil change this weekend and will be using Liquid Moly "4T Street Race 5W-40 4L". I let you guys know what I think of it.

See if it's worth the money.

[Dave_in_TX]

Now I know a lot of you folks wont believe even distilled water bought at a Walmart can be used on a BMW... but I've observed first hand Shell Rotella T6 with the JASO MA2 seal of approval. The puck has been dropped... let the sticks fly!

 

Shell says it meets MA2 specs but it isn't certified as meeting MA2 (it doesn't really have the JASO seal of approval, Shell only states that it meets MA2). That might be an issue if you have a warranty claim where oil could be involved. Otherwise, T6 has an excellent reputation for use in bikes.

[lkraus]

JASO sets the standard, testing by them is optional. Last I looked, even the BMW branded oil was not on the list of JASO certified oils.

[PadG]

I am about to do an oil change this weekend and will be using Liquid Moly "4T Street Race 5W-40 4L". I let you guys know what I think of it.

See if it's worth the money.

I did exactly that at my 12k service a little while ago, even though I had a gallon jug of Rotella sitting on the shelf! I will wait to hearwhat you find, and we can compare notes!

 

$20 + tax for the Rotella or $55 for a 4 liters jug for the LiquiMoly.

Edited November 11, 2016 by PadG

[dirtrider]

Morning ____

 

JR 356 pointed this out in another thread but it was unconfirmed.

 

It is now confirmed as I looked at a jug of Roetlla T-6 5w40 a while ago.

 

The container of Rotella T-6 5w40 now looks to in fact have the the MA/MA-2 rating on the bottle (so it looks like it does conform to BMW's oil requirement specs)

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by dirtrider

[Alfred02]

Here you can find the latest official certified list of Jaso approved oils: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

 

I can not find a Shell or Rotella oil anywhere. Maybe I keep missing it.

 

Note that my Liquid Moly "5W-40" is also not on the list.

10W-40 and other ranges ARE on the list...but not 5W-40.

 

5W-40 seems to be such a rare oil range used in Motorbikes that the manufacturers just don't bother to submit them for testing.

 

Which doesn't exactly help us.

I know for sure that my dealer used Fuchs Silkolene in my bike and Fuchs hasn't got any approved oils in the 5W-40 range either.

 

Trust BMW to come up with a weird oil specification for our RT's

[Alfred02]

I did exactly that at my 12k service a little while ago, even though I had a gallon jug of Rotella sitting on the shelf! I will wait to hearwhat you find, and we can compare notes!

 

$20 + tax for the Rotella or $55 for a 4 liters jug for the LiquiMoly.

 

Over here Liquid Moly costs AUS $115,- for 4ltr. And there is just one Supplier in the country, so not something that I can just pick up of the shelf locally.

 

Since mine is one of the very early 2014 Wetheads, it does clunk a fair bit once up to temp when changing up gears, which is very pronounced, but smooth while the engine/gear box is still cold.

 

That's why I am giving it a shot with this very expensive oil.

See if it improves the situation.

 

[JR356]

Thanks for the pic and confirmation dirt rider.

 

Originally the MA2 designation was only found on the gallon size jugs label,but it is now showing up on the quart size bottles too.

Gallon of Shell tends to run about same cost,or less,than a quart(liter) of the "approved"oil at the dealership.

 

I leave it up to each individual to decide their comfort level with "approved" vs non approved oils.

 

Way too many BMW oil threads on the internet and no one has definitively proved one brand really better than the other.

 

Get out and RIDE!

 

JR356

Edited November 12, 2016 by JR356

[moshe_levy]

I've been using the Rotella T6 since the first change.

 

-MKL

[lkchris]

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency.

 

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils-

 

Service S and Service C exist for good reasons.

Edited November 12, 2016 by lkchris

[realshelby]

Service S and Service C exist for good reasons.

 

Shell Rotella T-6 is "S" rated for gasoline engines.

[dirtrider]

Evening Terry

 

Yes, the label on the 1 gal Rotella T6 jug I have in my hands (& the one I posted above) clearly shows---

 

 

API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4/SM

[PadG]

I've been using the Rotella T6 since the first change.

 

-MKL

Me too! I just went with the LiquiMoly on the last change, on a whim, just to see if what the fanatics claim are true or not. I don't want to voice my result until I do the next change, which will be back to the Rotella, to be sure that what I am presently observing is accurate.

[WBinDE]

Here you can find the latest official certified list of Jaso approved oils: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

 

I can not find a Shell or Rotella oil anywhere. Maybe I keep missing it.

 

...

You are correct, it's not there. The label gives a clue why: it says "Meets performance requirements of " not "Certified to". That means Shell tested it in their own labs according to the published standards and determined that it met the requirements. They did not do the next step of paying an independent lab several thousand dollars to repeat the tests and submit them to whatever organization manages the JASO standards so they can display an actual certification number on the label.

 

If it were certified it would have a round-cornered rectangle on the bottle, with a large MA2 in the bottom part and a certification number (like M041M0X102) in the top part. I googled and found some images but can't figure out how to post one.

 

Nonetheless I'd have no hesitation about using Rotella T6 whether it was certified or "merely" comforms.

 

[NoelCP]

Since mine is one of the very early 2014 Wetheads, it does clunk a fair bit once up to temp when changing up gears, which is very pronounced, but smooth while the engine/gear box is still cold.

 

That's why I am giving it a shot with this very expensive oil.

See if it improves the situation.

 

It's hard to believe HOW an oil would help reduce the clunk you get in the lower gears. I can see shifting becoming perhaps a little smoother, but the hard/definitive clunks you get in the lower gears just seems to me to involve big heavy parts and oil that is a littler slipperier I don't see how that could soften the clunk. The Neutral to 1st gear clunk while the bike is not moving does improve w/ cold oil/cold engine but that seems like a function of clutch/gearbox parts not being dragged along after they have warmed and expanded.

[Green RT]

I thought the neutral-to-first-gear clunk was a requirement for BMW motorcycle transmissions. This is my fourth boxer and they have all had a similar sound when shifting into first. I have never had a transmission problem in about 500,000 miles, so it doesn't seem like it is something to worry about.

[moshe_levy]

It's nothing to worry about, but honestly.... It's kind of a fly in the ointment of an otherwise refined machine. It's almost embarrassing because it sounds like something IS wrong, even though nothing is. It doesn't fit in the character of the machine.

 

-MKL

[LAF]

It's nothing to worry about, but honestly.... It's kind of a fly in the ointment of an otherwise refined machine. It's almost embarrassing because it sounds like something IS wrong, even though nothing is. It doesn't fit in the character of the machine.

 

-MKL

 

Exactly how I see it.

 

It is a very refined bike why does it have to clunk instead of snick?

 

However I hear old timers I trust say "they all have done that" so I don't really worry about it.

 

Don't stop me from riding it when I can either. Just saying............

[gordiet]

If you pull in the clutch and wait for everything to stop spinning there is no clunk.

When you stab it into 1st gear you are making a lot of things come to a stop.

GT

[Gene#3]

If you pull in the clutch and wait for everything to stop spinning there is no clunk.

When you stab it into 1st gear you are making a lot of things come to a stop.

GT

 

Sounds like a non synchro first gear out of the old days...

[realshelby]

I have tried holding the clutch in for an entire red light cycle. Then putting it in first. Still clunks the same. Tried shifting into second gear instead of first, same clunk. No longer think much about it.

[jeff55]

A dealer told me Shell makes the oil now for BMW. I contacted Shell in Houston and they verified that. Shell Rotella T6, a diesel motor oil that meets JASO MA2. Oddly, that oil does meet my VW TDIs specs, but VW is buying my two cars back, so what.

 

 

 

[gordiet]

They are buying my Passat as well. Wish they would screwing around and get it done!

[LIRider]

A dealer told me Shell makes the oil now for BMW. I contacted Shell in Houston and they verified that. Shell Rotella T6, a diesel motor oil that meets JASO MA2. Oddly, that oil does meet my VW TDIs specs, but VW is buying my two cars back, so what.

 

 

 

I don't see VW507 certification on the T6 container (at least not the one I have which does list JASO MA2). I've got a Q5 TDI and am waiting to hear about what's going to happen with it (supposed to have some word today). It's difficult to find oil which meets VW507 to use in the Q5 ... I'd love it if T6 does.

[Rob L]

Dropped off my 2009 TDI Jetta Sportwagon last Wednesday. The car had 174,000 miles on it and I was happy to give it back. Great deal! Bought a new Golf Sportwagon. I know we are off subject, but ..........