Bob Boro Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Hi! I tried searching but couldn't find what I was looking for. I want to change my engine oil & filter. Rather than going to a BMW dealer or online, can I find an oil filter replacement from a local auto parts store? Has anyone done this? Much more convenient. Which oil filter to buy? Thanks!! 2003 R1150RT single spark Link to comment
kioolt Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Here is a list I have gathered from different places. NAPA Gold Oil Filter #1348 Mobil 1 Oil Filter line : "M1 - 102". AMSOIL: SMF-122 AC DELCO: PF-53 FRAM: PH-3614, PH6063 Hastings: 157A, LF157 Motorcraft: FL-271, FL-793 Purolator: FCO-201, PER-241 Wix: 51348, 51785 MANN W712/38 SAAB 9144445 Perf-form BMW-1 Link to comment
Bob Boro Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Thanks!! Very helpful. Link to comment
ThomasJ Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 This site has some helpful information: (lots of research stuff too) http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html Link to comment
Michaelr11 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Highly recommend: Mahle OC91 - pretty sure this is the OEM filter Bosch 3330 Bosch 72161 Link to comment
Rawed Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I use the Bosch 72161 and have for over 50,000 trouble-free miles. Costs about $4.50 Canadian. I think that's less than $3.50 US for a quality filter. Link to comment
SAS Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Bob, K&N makes a filter for the R1150 the number is KN 163 the good feature of this is it has a hex bolt as part of the filter and makes it easier to get it off. I use the same on my R1100 they work great and you can get them at any parts store, that sells K&N filters. More convenient than going to the stealer. Link to comment
lkchris Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Be sure your off brand filter is spec'd to 2.5 bar overflow valve opening pressure. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Be sure your off brand filter is spec'd to 2.5 bar overflow valve opening pressure. Afternoon Why do you say 2.5 bar by-pass opening? (2.5 bar is over 36 psi) My BMW shop manuals (both 1100 & 1150) show-- "Pressure differential needed to open bypass valve = 1.5 bar (21.756 PSI)" Link to comment
James L. Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) A bypass is for when the filter gets clogged. The bypass valve opens to prevent oil starvation in the engine. The true oil pressure has little to do with the bypass valve. Dirty oil is better than no oil. James L Edited November 10, 2016 by James L. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 DR, Where does the R1100R run under normal conditions as far as dif pressure is concerned? It must be something under 21.756? I would suspect that there should be very little difference between system pressure before and after the filter? 5-10 psi maybe less? Could be wrong though? Afternoon SAS The oil filter operates in by-pass at every cold start & usually does somewhat at very high RPM's unless the oil is exceptionally hot & thin. It by-passes a lot of oil on cold engine ride-away as the RPM's increase. Normally when riding down the road with hot (very thin) oil at moderate RPM's it won't be by-passing any oil. I just cut a BMW 11427719357 oil filter apart yesterday & there is a nice 50mm large particle screen over the by-pass port (most auto type filters don't have that) People assume the filter only by-pass when plugged but that is not the case. Link to comment
lkchris Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Be sure your off brand filter is spec'd to 2.5 bar overflow valve opening pressure. Afternoon Why do you say 2.5 bar by-pass opening? (2.5 bar is over 36 psi) My BMW shop manuals (both 1100 & 1150) show-- "Pressure differential needed to open bypass valve = 1.5 bar (21.756 PSI)" Referring to specifications page from Mahle for OC 91 filter. Have they produced a typo? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Be sure your off brand filter is spec'd to 2.5 bar overflow valve opening pressure. Afternoon Why do you say 2.5 bar by-pass opening? (2.5 bar is over 36 psi) My BMW shop manuals (both 1100 & 1150) show-- "Pressure differential needed to open bypass valve = 1.5 bar (21.756 PSI)" Referring to specifications page from Mahle for OC 91 filter. Have they produced a typo? Afternoon lkchris I have no idea as I haven't ever had the oc 91 tested. All I know is all my (official) BMW 1100 & 1150 manuals show 1.5 bar for by-pass opening. The 1200 Hexhead manual does show 2.5 bar but that takes a different BMW filter. Link to comment
Mike Taunton Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Do we know who makes BMW oil filters? I'm pretty sure BMW themselves don't make the filters. I'll assume they're European. Mahle or Mann maybe? Link to comment
PAS Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Make sure you can loosen the old filter before you drain the oil! Different filters may require a different wrench. Link to comment
Michaelr11 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike Taunton said: Do we know who makes BMW oil filters? I'm pretty sure BMW themselves don't make the filters. I'll assume they're European. Mahle or Mann maybe? Pretty sure that Mahle makes the OEM 845 filter. Check the Mahle OC91. Link to comment
Cap Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 On 11/8/2016 at 11:02 AM, dirtrider said: Why do you say 2.5 bar by-pass opening? (2.5 bar is over 36 psi) My BMW shop manuals (both 1100 & 1150) show-- "Pressure differential needed to open bypass valve = 1.5 bar (21.756 PSI)" At the risk of revealing my geek origins, and with apologies in advance for reopening an old dispute, I suggest that DR's quote of the BMW manual is consistent with what lkchris suggested. A differential pressure of 1.5 bar is the same as an absolute pressure of 2.5 bar. So, you're both right. As an aside, I once had a Honda XR650R in which I had installed an aftermarket stainless steel mesh reusable oil filter. (That engine used an OEM small paper element filter set into a recess on the block). My main bearing self-destructed from a manufacturing defect, and debris and metal shavings packed up the filter, which eventually ruptured from the pressure. What a mess. Needless to say, the engine was toast. Having a bypass is a good thing -- I might even have made it all the way home before the engine quit. But I don't think having a mesh over the bypass opening will make any difference for a catastrophic failure like mine. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Cap said: At the risk of revealing my geek origins, and with apologies in advance for reopening an old dispute, I suggest that DR's quote of the BMW manual is consistent with what lkchris suggested. A differential pressure of 1.5 bar is the same as an absolute pressure of 2.5 bar. So, you're both right. Afternoon Cap We can't both be right as the auto industry & motorcycle industry only measures oil filter by-pass pressure one way. It NEEDS to be consistent for the numbers to have any meaning. If the measuring wasn't constant across all the pressure numbers given in the service manuals then the given data would be meaningless (or ALL manuals would ALWAYS need to include a long explanation on what method to use). Not that it matters as we are looking at 'differential pressure' here not 'absolute pressure'. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I know I'm late to this thread by 3 years(!!) but after spending $10000-$20000 on a bike, gear, insurance, oil, and other maintenance items, why would you want to cheap out on an oil filter to save $10-$15. I'm guessing that BMW engineers spent a lot of time and effort to determine the right filter spec and designed thier filters to meet that spec. Engineers at after market companies try to reverse engineer or copy the OEM filter. But, what if they got it wrong. That's my reasoning and I'm sticking to it. Me? I'll stick with the OEM filter. Cheers! Miguel Link to comment
dirtrider Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Miguel! said: I know I'm late to this thread by 3 years(!!) but after spending $10000-$20000 on a bike, gear, insurance, oil, and other maintenance items, why would you want to cheap out on an oil filter to save $10-$15. I'm guessing that BMW engineers spent a lot of time and effort to determine the right filter spec and designed thier filters to meet that spec. Engineers at after market companies try to reverse engineer or copy the OEM filter. But, what if they got it wrong. That's my reasoning and I'm sticking to it. Me? I'll stick with the OEM filter. Cheers! Miguel Morning Miguel BMW didn't design the oil filter that they use and the BMW oil filter isn't made by BMW (depending, it is either supplied by Mahle or Mann). I know the service filter comes in a BMW box from a BMW dealer with BMW part number (for a lot of money). You can get the very same Mahle or Mann oil filter on Amazon (or other places on line). For one motorcycle & a once a year oil change then it probably isn't worth the time to chase a (proper) Mahle or Mann filter at a reduced price but if like me you buy in bulk then there is a pretty good savings in buying 20-25 oil filters at a time at a $8.00-$10.00 savings per filter. I don't know if it is still true but not that long ago I could buy a BMW spec Mahle or Mann oil filter on Amazon for less money than my BMW dealer pays for the same filter through the BMW parts network (same with tires, spark plugs). Link to comment
Patallaire Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 This sounds like much ado about nothing! If you can afford a BMW and all that goes with it the difference in cost on an oil filter should not even be a consideration. Sometimes the expression "Penny wise and pound foolish" comes to mind. The peace of mind that comes with not thinking about an oil filter, frees your mind to contemplate the more taxing issues of our times. Link to comment
AndyS Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Pat, I don't buy BMW oil, BMW Oil FIlters, BMW spark plugs, in fact where possible I always buy my consumables from trustworthy autofactors. Why, because the parts are built to a specification. If it meets that specification we are good to go. Link to comment
Paul De Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 This discussion is similar to the topic of para lever bearings where with some detective work you can often trace these back to the same sub supplier used by BMW and find savings by skipping BMW's distribution channel mark-up. In the case of oil filters being sure to maintain the required specification and quality of manufacturer is maybe even more of a challenge than the bearing discussion. Beyond bypass pressure the filter media itself can make a significant impact on filter performance in terms of media consistency/integrity, fluid flow rate, particle size that are passed and ability to maintain these properties through the life of the filter. I guess it is worth a little effort to look into if there are verified quality issues when buying from someone other than BMW or the same part from the branded sub supplier to BMW and pick based on the overall consistency from that manufacturer. The added price you pay for the BMW filter includes significant resources spent conducting routine independent review that the sub supplier is providing and maintaining the specification and quality of manufacture. Automotive vendor audits are even more dreaded than going in for a colonoscopy! Link to comment
Paul De Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, AndyS said: I always buy my consumables from trustworthy autofactors. Great point. Recently I got tripped up buying NGK Iridium spark plugs for a great price on the internet only to find out on inspection they were fakes. They looked close to the real NGKs but were fake based on NGK's FAQ on how to ID knock offs plugs. Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 15 hours ago, Miguel! said: I know I'm late to this thread by 3 years(!!) but after spending $10000-$20000 on a bike, gear, insurance, oil, and other maintenance items, why would you want to cheap out on an oil filter to save $10-$15. I'm guessing that BMW engineers spent a lot of time and effort to determine the right filter spec and designed thier filters to meet that spec. Engineers at after market companies try to reverse engineer or copy the OEM filter. But, what if they got it wrong. That's my reasoning and I'm sticking to it. Me? I'll stick with the OEM filter. Cheers! Miguel Remember, these are the same engineers who can't drill four holes in a transmission case in the right spots. The same engineers who thought power brakes were a good idea. The same engineers who took ten years to figure out how to keep an oilhead from surging. The same engineers who thought it was a great idea to have a bike cut off when you put the kickstand down in neutral. The same engineers who can't figure out how to shim a final drive bearing. The same engineers who put the battery under the fuel tank, so you have to take the tank off to get a jump start. The same engineers who glued a two-piece driveshaft together with rubber. I'll take my chances with the engineers from Mobil-1, thanks. 1 Link to comment
Cap Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Jim Moore said: Remember, these are the same engineers who can't drill four holes in a transmission case in the right spots. The same engineers who thought power brakes were a good idea. The same engineers who took ten years to figure out how to keep an oilhead from surging. The same engineers who thought it was a great idea to have a bike cut off when you put the kickstand down in neutral. The same engineers who can't figure out how to shim a final drive bearing. The same engineers who put the battery under the fuel tank, so you have to take the tank off to get a jump start. The same engineers who glued a two-piece driveshaft together with rubber. Amen Link to comment
PAS Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 The same engineers that probably dont ride motorcycles! Link to comment
Paul De Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Jim Moore said: Remember, these are the same engineers who can't drill four holes in a transmission case in the right spots. Umm, maybe more of the issue with the tool & die makers which is a skilled trade position at a manufacturing plant. The sub suppliers would be audited by the quality process using the specifications as defined by the engineers but an independent process from the engineering process. 20 hours ago, Jim Moore said: I'll take my chances with the engineers from Mobil-1, thanks. I would suspect that ExxonMobil licensed their trademark to a sub supplier and depend on that entity to manage it and that actually might be a good thing. I would suspect EM knows plenty about the oil, but filters, maybe not so much. I wouldn't have such strong faith in their chemical engineers VS the automotive mechanical engineers keeping consistent quality either. The company I worked for caught EM more than once messing with their chemical products in ways that caused our products to go way off specification and they always were weasels about their actions and only after big analytical expenditures to put the facts on the table and rubbing their nose in it would they admit to their "optimization project". Quarterly shareholder reports rule at that company, everything else is second or less. 1 Link to comment
tallman Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 First oil thread. Yippee. It isn't whether the filter "fits". It's all about what's inside. Some filters fit and perform. Some fit and underperform. Done the digging years ago Oil is the blood of the motorcycle. The $15-50 per year I spent that was "extra", to obtain the filters I wanted, over 50 years of riding, probably ran $1500 bux, or so. Never had an engine issue, or oil use issue, etc. Only 400,000 plus on BMW's. Probably a coincidence. Best wishes. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 4:48 AM, dirtrider said: Morning Miguel BMW didn't design the oil filter that they use and the BMW oil filter isn't made by BMW (depending, it is either supplied by Mahle or Mann). I know the service filter comes in a BMW box from a BMW dealer with BMW part number (for a lot of money). You can get the very same Mahle or Mann oil filter on Amazon (or other places on line). For one motorcycle & a once a year oil change then it probably isn't worth the time to chase a (proper) Mahle or Mann filter at a reduced price but if like me you buy in bulk then there is a pretty good savings in buying 20-25 oil filters at a time at a $8.00-$10.00 savings per filter. I don't know if it is still true but not that long ago I could buy a BMW spec Mahle or Mann oil filter on Amazon for less money than my BMW dealer pays for the same filter through the BMW parts network (same with tires, spark plugs). Thanks for the detailed info DR. You're right for my once a year oil change, the cost differential does't really matter but I appreiaciate knowing the story and details behind the oil filters origin. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 9:57 AM, Jim Moore said: Remember, these are the same engineers who can't drill four holes in a transmission case in the right spots. The same engineers who thought power brakes were a good idea. The same engineers who took ten years to figure out how to keep an oilhead from surging. The same engineers who thought it was a great idea to have a bike cut off when you put the kickstand down in neutral. The same engineers who can't figure out how to shim a final drive bearing. The same engineers who put the battery under the fuel tank, so you have to take the tank off to get a jump start. The same engineers who glued a two-piece driveshaft together with rubber. I'll take my chances with the engineers from Mobil-1, thanks. Thanks Jim. I've puzzled over the last few days about how best to respond to your post. I'm left with two unanswered questions: What is it that "drives" you to ride a BMW and specifically an oilhead given your comments and observation? Why not a Japanese or other brand? And... Given your information, how should I react to it and what actions should I take in the future. Inquiring minds just want to know. And just in case you think I'm being cynical, I'm not. I'm just left puzzled about how to answer these two questions. Best Miguel! Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Miguel! said: Thanks Jim. I've puzzled over the last few days about how best to respond to your post. I'm left with two unanswered questions: What is it that "drives" you to ride a BMW and specifically an oilhead given your comments and observation? Why not a Japanese or other brand? And... Given your information, how should I react to it and what actions should I take in the future. Inquiring minds just want to know. And just in case you think I'm being cynical, I'm not. I'm just left puzzled about how to answer these two questions. Best Miguel! Good questions. I'll answer as best I can, but first I have to describe my opinion of the BMW engineering department. I'm sure they're fabulous engineers, but sometimes they're too smart for their own good (Hello servo brakes!) and they can't quite grasp the fact that their complex and fiddly manufacturing process don't quite translate to the factory floor. That in particular leads to a host of QA issues (Hello, wrongly shimmed final drives!). So why am I still riding them? First, you seem to get a good one, or a bad one. A good one will be a trouble-free lifelong companion. A bad one will cost you multi-thousands of dollars in repairs again and again over its lifetime. I have almost 300K miles on oilheads and I've learned enough about them so I can avoid the years where most of the bad ones were made. Also, I've seen pretty much every failure that can occur. There's nothing on my current bike that can't be fixed by me for a few hundred bucks worth of ebay parts. Would I buy a new one? Not on your life. It's playing Russian Roulette (have you heard of the cam issues on the 1250? The issues with the front forks? JfC!) Would I buy a 1998 R1100GS is a cheap one floated by on Craigslist? You betcha! So what should you do? First, recognize that the BMW engineers are not infallible and neither is your bike. Arm yourself with knowledge, tools, and spare parts. Don't be surprised when something goes wrong. Second, buy a Mobil-1 M102 filter and some Mobil-1 synthetic 15w50. No harm will come to you or your bike from those. Link to comment
AndyS Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Jim Moore said: Would I buy a new one? Not on your life. It's playing Russian Roulette (have you heard of the cam issues on the 1250? The issues with the front forks? JfC!) Hi Jim. I am a BIG fan of the R1150 RT. However, as to your comments about the forks and 1250 cams, no I have not heard of this. Can you give me a link please? Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, AndyS said: Hi Jim. I am a BIG fan of the R1150 RT. However, as to your comments about the forks and 1250 cams, no I have not heard of this. Can you give me a link please? https://advrider.com/f/threads/my-2017-gs-needs-new-cams-at-15-000mi.1382791/page-4#post-37650148 https://advrider.com/f/threads/1200gsw-fixed-fork-tube-issues-recall-threadfest.1184877/ Link to comment
AndyS Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Ah, you mean the cam issue on the 1200. Yep, seen that one. And the fork issue on the GS (not the RT) seen that one too. I must say, I am far less concerned with these mechanical issues that most folk can get their head around. I am more concerned with the electronic / software issues, that next to none of us can get into and tweak. Link to comment
James in OK Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 11/4/2016 at 9:47 PM, Rawed said: I use the Bosch 72161 and have for over 50,000 trouble-free miles. Costs about $4.50 Canadian. I think that's less than $3.50 US for a quality filter. That's a lot of miles for an oil filter. 1 Link to comment
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