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Hungry for headlights


moshe_levy

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It's getting to be re-goddamned-diculous already, with this bike consuming headlight bulbs. The stocker went after 12k. Then a Sylvania Silverstar in spring, and another in summer, and now another one again yesterday. At $25 a pop, I'm done with them.

 

Now, in my case, I frankly don't need a headlight bulb. My bike has the full Clearwater suite up front, so I don't even notice that it's blown. (I just see the idiot light on the dash.) But there must be SOMETHING causing this absurd rate of failure. (Compounded by what a pain in the ass it is to replace the bulb on this bike!)

 

What is going on here with this hunger for headlights? (Until root cause is found, it's back to cheap plain jane bulbs for me. Makes no difference on my bike anyway.)

 

-MKL

Edited by moshe_levy
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I put dielectric grease on all the bulbs. Makes no difference.

 

I don't remember a single headlamp failure on my Hexhead. Here I am with 4 in a little over a year on the Wethead. Same brand I've always used, even. Something's off.

 

-MKL

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Afternoon MKL

 

 

You just have to find the right bulb-- My 1200RT also chucked bulbs like crazy UNTIL I switched to H-9 bulbs-- Well actually H-9 bulbs on H-7 bases. (both high & low beams are going well over 2 years now)

 

They are Osram H-7 (0ff-road) 65 watt super brights (#64217).

 

The Osram super brights are the good ones as they DO have UV filtration/protection on the glass (some other brands don't have UV protection & will discolor the headlight light lens)

 

Make sure anything that you choose that isn't OEM has UV protection.

 

The only problem is the Osram (65 watt) are getting hard to find as they seem to be getting replace with 80 watters (you definitely don't want to use 80 watt bulbs with stock wiring & stock connectors)

 

Osram 65 watt H-7 --clicky here

Edited by dirtrider
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Moshe, from an automotive experience I learned that these fancy brighter than stock bulbs have a common sense relationship. Each brighter step in light output had a corresponding decrease in bulb life. Another thing I found and don't have the spec's in front of me the so called 20% or more brighter than stock H4 whatever bulb is referenced to the bulb at I think it was 80% output. Look at the back of the Silverstar package. This is typical, as an older bulb does loose output. I had replaced the stock bulbs in my Toyota and they were brighter and one burned out in less than 3 months. The originals lasted over 15 years. When I changed back to fresh original equipment they too were brighter than I had been driving with the old bulbs. So cheap bulbs for my H4 replacements here. ;)

 

PS. It may or not make a difference, but I'm cautious of running a higher wattage than stock to keep my switch gear & bulb sockets healthy.

Edited by sardineone
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I've posted before I have never lost a bulb on any BMW Bike ever...I've owned airhead, oilhead, and wethead. I put about 50K each on the airhead and oilhead and am currently around 15K on my wethead and the bulbs are still good..........that said....you guys spooked me and I ordered two of the above to have on hand.

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Afternoon MKL

 

 

You just have to find the right bulb-- My 1200RT also chucked bulbs like crazy UNTIL I switched to H-9 bulbs-- Well actually H-9 bulbs on H-7 bases. (both high & low beams are going well over 2 years now)

 

They are Osram H-7 (0ff-road) 65 watt super brights (#64217).

 

The Osram super brights are the good ones as they DO have UV filtration/protection on the glass (some other brands don't have UV protection & will discolor the headlight light lens)

 

Make sure anything that you choose that isn't OEM has UV protection.

 

The only problem is the Osram (65 watt) are getting hard to find as they seem to be getting replace with 80 watters (you definitely don't want to use 80 watt bulbs with stock wiring & stock connectors)

 

Osram 65 watt H-7 --clicky here

 

Thank you. That looked familiar, so I went into the garage, and found a bunch of boxes for those. Apparently I swapped the stock bulbs in my 2009 RT for these - still has the boxes with the stock bulbs inside. They (Osram) never blew. I'll give it a shot. Thank you Sir!

 

-MKL

 

PS for the record, the stock bulbs in both my 2009 and 2015 RT were both Osram brand.

Edited by moshe_levy
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PS for the record, the stock bulbs in both my 2009 and 2015 RT were both Osram brand.

 

Morning MKL

 

Yes, a lot of OEM H-7 were Osram 55 watt bulbs. The BIG difference is the stock bulbs are H-7 bulbs & H-7 bulbs have a very short tightly wound filament (very fragile).

 

The Osram 65 watt are actually H-9 bulbs on the H-7 base & H-9 bulbs have a much more robust filament.

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PS for the record, the stock bulbs in both my 2009 and 2015 RT were both Osram brand.

 

Morning MKL

 

Yes, a lot of OEM H-7 were Osram 55 watt bulbs. The BIG difference is the stock bulbs are H-7 bulbs & H-7 bulbs have a very short tightly wound filament (very fragile).

 

The Osram 65 watt are actually H-9 bulbs on the H-7 base & H-9 bulbs have a much more robust filament.

Just want to thank you for the details! I hadn't known that. I have a pair of the 65w Osram sitting in my tool cart drawer. I had bought them for just in case I blew a bulb in my prior '07 RT. Never blew one, and the '15 has lots of miles on it, and still original bulb! Having said that, now I guess that is going to blow at the very next start up!!! :)

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Darn you, DR. You got me hooked on those 65W Osram's and now you say I can't have any more...

 

Actually, thanks for the heads-up on this. I read one of your posts about these last year and bought a pair on eBay (for $22). I really like the improvement. Sure enough, they are nowhere to be found anymore. Hopefully Mr. CandlePowerInc has a decent surplus.

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I've read in I think 2 threads that what helps is to never hit the start button until the electronics have fully booted up. Some folks commenting on this were over 20K miles w/o an initial failure when they reported this. I've followed the same idea and was going strong at 14,500 miles or so when I took a road trip and decided I should try to see if I could negotiate changing the low beam myself w/ my hand size in the cramped spot and in the comfort of my garage so swapped out the original bulb for a new OEM Long Life bulb.

 

Since you have stage lights already on your RTW you hardly need higher wattage H7 bulbs so one would argue for longevity. You might consider installing BMW's new OEM long life H7 which is what I did, picked up from the local dealer. It's more $$, this one was ~$28. I'm guessing I'll get at least 25K miles out of it or what have you based on others testimony w/ OEM bulbs following the above mentioned practice. Could of course be total internet confusion over cause and effect.

Edited by NoelCP
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I've read in I think 2 threads that what helps is to never hit the start button until the electronics have fully booted up.

Could of course be total internet confusion over cause and effect.

 

If it is written enough times on internet forums, it MUST be true! Or Not?

 

I could see waiting for the computer to cycle, or to say three prayers over it, but the simple FACT is that the headlight is NOT on till after the engine starts. On bikes that the headlight is ON when the key in On, but maybe goes off during starter motor action, then back on, I can see a chance of shortened bulb life. Off/on cycles have a lot to do with incandescent bulb life. In the case of the RT I think bulb life is just going to be what it is.

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I've read in I think 2 threads that what helps is to never hit the start button until the electronics have fully booted up. Some folks commenting on this were over 20K miles w/o an initial failure when they reported this. I've followed the same idea and was going strong at 14,500 miles or so when I took a road trip and decided I should try to see if I could negotiate changing the low beam myself w/ my hand size in the cramped spot and in the comfort of my garage so swapped out the original bulb for a new OEM Long Life bulb.

 

Since you have stage lights already on your RTW you hardly need higher wattage H7 bulbs so one would argue for longevity. You might consider installing BMW's new OEM long life H7 which is what I did, picked up from the local dealer. It's more $$, this one was ~$28. I'm guessing I'll get at least 25K miles out of it or what have you based on others testimony w/ OEM bulbs following the above mentioned practice. Could of course be total internet confusion over cause and effect.

 

Afternoon NoelCP

 

There might be some truth to turning the key on then WAITING for the electronics to fully boot. Probably even more helpful to turn the key on then leave it turned on while you have a cup of coffee. Or turn the key on then hold the front brake lever in with force for 2 minutes (that will run the brakes) , or turn the key on then hold the flash to pass for a couple of minutes.

 

Any & all of the above will deplete the battery a little so when the engine is finally stated that depleted battery will take some of the current that the alternator produces & lower the voltage slightly that is going to the cold H-7 bulb.

 

If you really want to improve your H-7 bulb life then go through the rain dance needed to bring the main beam headlight on with the engine off before every start. That will pre-heat the H-7 at (engine-off) reduced battery voltage so the bulb is pre warmed before it is hit with post engine start full alternator voltage.--Or just add a pushbutton switch to momentarily bring the main beam on for a couple of seconds before starting engine.

 

The old BMW 1150 brought the H-7 on at first key-on, that was at static (engine off) reduced voltage, the bulb would then turn off at engine cranking then come back on after engine was cranked & key was released. Those old 1150 BMW's hardly ever burned a headlight bulb out.

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It's getting to be re-goddamned-diculous already, with this bike consuming headlight bulbs. The stocker went after 12k. Then a Sylvania Silverstar in spring, and another in summer, and now another one again yesterday. At $25 a pop, I'm done with them.

 

Now, in my case, I frankly don't need a headlight bulb. My bike has the full Clearwater suite up front, so I don't even notice that it's blown. (I just see the idiot light on the dash.) But there must be SOMETHING causing this absurd rate of failure. (Compounded by what a pain in the ass it is to replace the bulb on this bike!)

 

What is going on here with this hunger for headlights? (Until root cause is found, it's back to cheap plain jane bulbs for me. Makes no difference on my bike anyway.)

 

-MKL

 

Your problem is you're using Sylvania Silverstars ... they're notorious for short life.

 

Not too certain there is much in the way of quality down to Pep Boys or NAPA. Silverstars for sure aren't. It's been about 30 years since I fitted a Halogen bulb that wasn't European sourced, and I'd recommend that. Or some USA one-man-show that imports them for you. Not your FLAPS.

 

If you like the word Silverstar, you can fit Osram Silverstars which are not the same thing. They aren't blue for one thing. Or Phillips. There are heavy duty H7s out there, although afaik not in "plus" brightness versions.

 

Bulb life on our bikes is going to be a bit short anyway, thanks to silly USA laws requiring headlight always on. Even the angel eyes on the new RTs aren't enough, although they are in Europe.

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If it is written enough times on internet forums, it MUST be true! Or Not?

 

I could see waiting for the computer to cycle, or to say three prayers over it, but the simple FACT is that the headlight is NOT on till after the engine starts.

 

True, but that is not the entire story. What you don't have as clue about is EXACTLY what happens between letting the system fully initiate before hitting the starter button, and not, with regard to lighting the bulb up in the two scenarios. It's entirely possibly there is for example an un fully regulated charge going to the bulb when the system has not completely booted up when the starter button is hit at a specific moment. The best we can do w/o doing a complete troubleshooting electric evaluation is to look at user testimony on the topic. I read others here have changed OEM bulbs every 4-10K miles, and over 20K and counting for the folks who commented about following this strategy. As I say, 14,500 on my OEM w/ no failure so who knows how long it would have gone.

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  • 1 month later...

DR,

Thanks for the info. OEM bulb last 20k then fist replacement lasted 6k. On third bulb now but have the ones you suggested on order.

 

Alan

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Like AlanS, my first replacement bulb just went out after 6k miles. Only took an hour to replace it because one of the tabs is pretty mangled (took 5 hours the first time). Maybe I'll work up the courage to pull off the whole headlight assembly like realshelby did and straighten the tab. Changing the bulb would be a 5 minute operation if I could just release the one clip like the other side.

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I've owned dozens of motorcycles and never changed a headlight. But this 2007 R 1200 RT with 38,000 miles has 7 blubs to her credit. Cheap ones or stock ones or expensive ones makes little or no difference. (At $51, Piaa lasted longest.) To hell with changing blubs, or getting one brand or the other......... what is the problem and why doesn't BMW either know or fix it?

 

It might not be so bad if you could change them without hiring a small Asian woman with tiny hands, triple articulated arms and fingers of steal. A person with average size hands has a hell of a time getting in and under the fairing.

 

 

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Each brighter step in light output had a corresponding decrease in bulb life.

 

That's it, right there. If you want more light, you have to be willing to replace the bulb more often.

 

FWIW, I just replaced my stock bulb at 20k miles. Now that I've gone through the process, it will be faster and easier next time.

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BTW........Is it just the RT's that eat blubs or is this appetite across the BMW model range????????????

 

It's not just RT's or BMW's. Honda ST1300's are notorious for going through left headlight bulbs. I replaced the low beam in my '08 Kawi Versys this past year. Headlights are DRL's by default on a motorcycle, so if you ride a lot the headlights burn a lot of hours. Their life is limited...when they burn out, replace 'em and go back to riding.

Edited by MotoBones
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Respectfully I disagree. That is not the problem........ more light is not the question. The stock ones burned out the fastest. IN one 9 months period I replaced 3 and no I did not put my fingers on the glass. And No you don't get better at replacing them if you can't get your hands under the fairing.

 

Lots of motorcycles and cars go hundreds of thousands of miles without replacing headlights. 3 in 9 months??? 7 in 38k???? This is a problem or several of us would not be talking about this on this forum.

 

Something is amiss, I don't know what it is but BMW has a problem with headlights.

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I've not seen this behavior mentioned: the instant I turn the ignition key to the ON position, my low beam HID bulbs flash, then go off until the engine starts. It's been a several years since I had halogen bulbs, but I think they acted the same, and I think it is this brief pulse that shortens the life of the bulbs. Allowing time for the computer to boot may help the engine run better, but I don't think it affects that initial flash.

Edited by lkraus
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The OEM bulb lasted me 20k miles which is not great but not as bad as what others have had. The replacement lasted ~6k miles which is not good at all. I am on the second out of the replacement package but did receive the bulbs that DR pointed out. Ideally I would like an LED replacement that does not require modifying any of the stock components and puts out at least the same amount of light as the bulbs DR recommended.

 

Alan

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Ideally I would like an LED replacement that does not require modifying any of the stock components and puts out at least the same amount of light as the bulbs DR recommended.

 

Alan

 

I did modify my headlight housing cover for my LED projects. But nothing else. If you wanted to try the LED like I am using, you could buy another of the round twist-on bulb covers from BMW and modify it. Easy to put back "stock". The lighting improvement is dramatic. So far I have around 6000 miles on that LED and it is working just like when I installed it.

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  • 10 months later...

Well it finally happened. I always wondered what you folks were talking about these burned out headlights. As posted before I've owned a new airhead, oilhead, and water boxer and I repeat after riding them a little over 200k miles I've never ever had a bulb burn out............that was until today. Wethead dropped the low beam this morning after 16000 miles I darn near took a sawzall to it before I got it changed. The person who designed that clip should be flogged. I have joined the bulb club I bought two of the osram 65's at DR's recommendation.

 

I tried the front approach and that worked well for the protective cap and removal of the electrical connector..but that spring clip requires unnatural acts.

 

I have a trick now. I took a 1/4 inch down, cut a vertical slit in the end, and fished it down from the tank side right up to the spring. It really helped to install the spring clip

 

 

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I had read this thread a while back and thought well maybe folks were riding on rough roads, but I had the low beam go out around 10K miles on my '15 RT and it has not been run on roads that were all that rough. It happened on start up when heading home after work and I happened to have an auto parts store on the way. And yes it was a PITA to reset the retainer spring wire clamp. I purchased a Sylvania XtraVision, which from what I am reading here, will likely last no longer than the OEM bulb.

 

So I am going to try the 1/4" dowel trick and make one up ahead of time as I think this will be something I will be replacing soon enough, or at least an every 2 year ritual.

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  • 11 months later...

My waterhead just ate another low beam. This was purchased at Autozone and was a Sylvania XtraVision (OSRAM) that maybe lasted just over a year.

 

Next up is a PIAA Night Tech for this round. We'll see how long this one lasts.

 

Hungry Hungry Hippos!

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I don't know why you guys just keep popping in those replacement halogen bulbs. There are some very high quality LED bulbs that are so much better. Forget filament bulbs and go the LED route.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I don't know why you guys just keep popping in those replacement halogen bulbs. There are some very high quality LED bulbs that are so much better. Forget filament bulbs and go the LED route.

 

Maybe next time especially if it goes out in less than a year, or sooner as you read my comments below. With more folks going this way I have more confidence that problem free LED options are available.

 

I lost the OEM bulb before 10,000 sMiles, installed Philips Longlife EcoVision H7 Headlight Bulb still going at 31,000 .

 

Jay

 

Thanks Jay, a bulb to consider if you just want to replace the bulb and ride instead of working out the needed mods to get an LED installed.

 

Well I knocked off some projects that needed to get done before frozen tundra overtakes the north central states and finally got around to replacing the low beam today as it will be near 60 F and sunny.

 

But upon unpacking the PIAA Night Tech Long Life bulb and comparing it to the dead Sylvania XtraVision they look identical in every way...Crap I think it is the same damn bulb that barely made it a year!. Glass shape and their coatings, the metal base stamping, base plate spot weld placement, and laser etched writing position. The PIAA box said made in Germany and I can imaging this likely was true for the Sylvania as well as they are owned by OSRAM. It is nice bright daylight color which I liked about the Xrtavision, so crossed fingers and ride on!

 

With Winter, or as I call it Farkle Season, coming soon I may get a second dust cap and mod it to accept the LED set up that Realshelby is using.

 

 

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Installing the long life Halogen bulbs will increase their lifespan. But their output is lower than normal due to how they are built to make them "long life".

 

Extra vision, and bulbs in that class, do put out more and whiter light. But at a cost of lifespan again due to construction.

 

LED bulbs give you both of the good things of these bulbs and actually put out more light than either can.

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With Winter, or as I call it Farkle Season, coming soon I may get a second dust cap and mod it to accept the LED set up that Realshelby is using.

 

You don't need a second dust cap. All the braid sits nicely inside the housing, THEN the dust caps goes on as normal.

 

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I understood the braid was there to cool the LED driver electronics/bias resistor, I was concerned the braid would get enough air circulation inside the head light nacelle to keep the LED at full output. No shut downs or dimming noted with the tail stuff inside the nacelle housing?

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The only reason I have the braids outside the cap is that I already had a hole in the cap from a previous experiment. Made sense to do it that way and I am completely satisfied with it. Andy put all his braids inside the housing and it seems to work just fine for him. I would have no problem doing it that way were I to start from scratch.

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Ken92. thanks for the headlight tip,

 

 

AndyS and realshelby. thanks for the comeback on how to handle the cooling braid.

 

I hadn't looked it up yet but I imagine the little dust cap had a wicked price on it, so it is nice to avoid that step.

Haha, my Hawg riding friends say, HD stands for Hundred Dollars as no HD part is less than that. If that is true then BMW stands for Big Money Wad as that is needed for any BMW part!

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I have the ADV Units on my RT. After installing them, I rode around for about an hour. When I got home, I left the bike running, pulled the dust cap off. Braids were warm, but not hot. I could leave my hands on them without burning. Not even close.

 

http://stores.advmonster.com/h7-plus-led-headlight/

 

Any headlight out warnings or can bus issues?

 

No warnings at all. But I have only changed out the low beam. Not the high beam. I was going to wait until I lost a bulb there to test those out. I honestly don't run high beams all that often.

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