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Low Oil


Rancity

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I have a 2004 R1150RT with about 4100 miles.

The oil pressure light intermitantly came on during a ride yeasterday. I noticed it happend during shifting or when sitting at a stop light.

I checked the oil level, there was no oil line in the window. I removed the side covers in search of a leak. There is no evidance of a leak. there is no smoke when the bike is running.

I had to add 3qts of oil!! Where is the oil going?

I will be taking this to the dealer for a good go over but I would like some ideas from the fine folks of this forum.

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Hard to imagine where that much oil has gone if you don't have an obvious leak and you're not pouring clouds of smoke out the exhaust! Over what time/mileage period did the 3 quarts dissappear? Is it possible to have a blockage so that you are pumping it out of the overflow into the air box?

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Hard to say for sure where the oil is going. These engines use a fair amount of oil in the first 10,000 to 20,000 miles. It takes that long for full break-in and then oil consumption decreases noticeably.

 

Having said that, checking oil on these engines takes some practice. I assume you have owned it since new? Did you leave it sit on the side stand for 5-10 minutes after running and before checking? When was the last time you checked it?

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No_Twilight

Assuming the oil hadn't been checked since the 600 mile service that is about a quart every 1000 miles which I understand isn't that unuaual for a new bike, right? --Jerry

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I also have 4500miles just checked nothing in my sight glass.

Question: does the oil have to be warm to check the sight glass if so why? I use the bike on the sidesatand method, if I see oil thats good.

Tony

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ShovelStrokeEd

It doesn't have to be warm to check. The side stand method works OK and it is what I use but, I have about 52K miles on my bike and have a good handle on oil consumption.

 

It might be a good idea for you to place the bike on the center stand and top up until the oil just hits the center dot on the sight glass. It might also do to check the oil more frequently until you get a better idea of what your bike needs.

 

I check before a trip and then once every 2K or so miles after that, changing at around 8 or 9K, whatever feels good and fits my schedule. I'm pretty easy on oil in that a good percentage of my miles are put on with long days in the saddle, running the motor at or near 5K rpm for tank after tank of gas. Oil gets well and truly up to temperature and holds there for long periods allowing volatile contaminants to boil off.

 

To the original poster, you need to get your bike to the dealer. That oil pressure warning light comes on at really low pressure and you may well have damaged the motor. The main and rod bearings might be OK but I would worry about the cams. Good luck with warrantee claims as maintaining oil level is the owner's responsibility.

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This has reminded me that when I took delivery of my 04'RT, the salesman spent about half an hour going over all the gizzmos and adjustments, but never once did he say anything about BMW's using oil and should be checked frequently.

When I had the 600 service, the Service manager talked about all kinds of stuff, but nothing about oil consumption.

 

I checked the oil at 1,500 and panicked just like the poster above. Thankfully, I was only down half a quart.The guys at the dealership just laughed it off. Had it not been for this board, I would have been convinced there was something wrong with my BMW because none of my previous bikes ever used any oil.

I always thought maybe my experence was a fluke, but now these guys pipe up.

 

So----WHY DON'T THE BMW DEALERS TELL YOU ABOUT THIS OIL CONSUMPTION STUFF UP FRONT????? confused.gif

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...So----WHY DON'T THE DEALERS TELL YOU ABOUT THIS OIL CONSUMPTION STUFF UP FRONT????? confused.gif

 

Probably for the same reason they wouldn't tell you about surging, sensitive brackes, inacurate speedos, etc. It's about making the sale.

 

Regards,

 

Mike O

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You should be checking your oil on the centerstand method only- I know of no other. It's simple, the bike has to be on a level surface on its centerstand (because that's what holds the bike level or straight up) and wait 5-10 min before checking the site glass so the oil can settle. The level can be any where within the circle but it's best to have it in the middle or a little higher. I know in really cold weather you should wait longer for the oil to settle because it might be thicker from the cold and take longer to settle.

Chris thumbsup.gif

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Ok here goes.

 

1. Many if not most bmw bikes use very little oil from day one. I have made several 5500 mile trips without adding oil. Used perhaps 1/5 of a quart and the bikes were new. I have never added oil between 5-6k oil changes.

 

2. If you don't put the bike on the side stand for about 5 minutes after stopping, some oil will be trapped and not show up when put on the centerstand. If you go right to the centerstand you will seem to be lower than you are. This leads to adding oil which will then be blown out.

 

This has all been mentioned 100 times before...I'm not making it up. tongue.gif

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I believe you. Why didn't BMW just go to a dipstick or something. My God, you can't even check the oil without some complication. This brings up a whole other thread about the tranny and rocker noises, the shifting problems, the gas gauge, the windshield not being big enough, the spline problems, the surging, etc. I'm a little frustrated right now but sometimes it makes me want to go out and buy an OLD triumph. They made more sense!

You'd think BMW after all these years would try and refine these problems and get rid of these GREMLINS. frown.gif

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I believe you. Why didn't BMW just go to a dipstick or something. My God, you can't even check the oil without some complication. This brings up a whole other thread about the tranny and rocker noises, the shifting problems, the gas gauge, the windshield not being big enough, the spline problems, the surging, etc. I'm a little frustrated right now but sometimes it makes me want to go out and buy an OLD triumph. They made more sense!

You'd think BMW after all these years would try and refine these problems and get rid of these GREMLINS. frown.gif

 

A dipstick will tell you nothing that a sight glass doesn't. They both show the level of the oil in the sump. The R259 boxer engine has two oil circuits using the same oil. One for lube, the other cooling. If you do not leave the bike on its sidestand for a few minutes, oil gets hung up in the cooling circuit. This would be the case using a sightglass, dipstick or voodoo.

 

The riders manual states that the oil must be regularly checked. My bike has a sticker on the tank saying the same thing. Do you not think it reasonable to be expected to read the manual?

 

Andy

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Stan Walker

Why didn't BMW just go to a dipstick or something

 

Good idea. BMW should put a dipstick in the oil cooler so we can measure how much oil didn't make it back to the engine. While they are at it, how about one in the air box so we can measure how much oil is being blown out of the engine......

 

smile.gif

 

Stan

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It's really simple, just take the time to get to know and understand your bike!

 

Read the BMW manuals and also search for and read some of the great posts and resources on this board, especially those referring to you question/issue.

 

Do you check your oil before and every ride?

Do you check your tyres and pressures religiously before and/or after every ride?

 

If not, get in the habit of doing so...I religiously kneel down and pray to the Great Sight Glass God before every ride grin.gifgrin.gif

 

And to Christroh, if you bought a BMW before doing any research? All I can say is be an informed consumer...caveat emptor baby grin.gif! Don't start crapping about issues that can easily be Googled or discovered via this board and then get all wound up coz they happened to you bncry.gif!

 

Fortunately for all of us, the world isn't perfect and neither is anyone or anything that inhabits it! What a boring arse existence it would be if they were..... eek.gif

 

Not waxing philosophical any further than this....................... thumbsup.gif

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Andy, My BMW 2002 RT manual that came new with the bike says to check the oil when warm when the bike is upright on a level surface. NOTHING else about putting it on a side stand or not. Maybe your 04 manual says different?

And where did I mention that the oil shouldn't be checked regularly?

Seems to me there would be a better,simpler, and more effecient way to check it. tongue.gif

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Assuming the oil hadn't been checked since the 600 mile service that is about a quart every 1000 miles which I understand isn't that unuaual for a new bike, right? --Jerry

Yes, some of ours burn more oil than others, mine got about 1000 miles per quart when new and now i get about 1700 miles/quart at 24k miles. BMW allows something like 600 miles per quart before they consider it a problem. also don't fill it higher than the center dot on the sight glass.
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The checking on the sidestand theory is completely unofficial and I believe it originated here. The idea is that the RT has so much oil that it doesn't miss a beat even when up to a quart low. That means that as long as you can see oil in the glass when the bike is on the side stand you are OK. Use this theory at your own risk!

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speaking of tires my 1150rt came with dunlop tires that read 42psi but the manual says 31psi- 35psi (between solo or two up)what do you guys use?

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Paul Mihalka
speaking of tires my 1150rt came with dunlop tires that read 42psi but the manual says 31psi- 35psi (between solo or two up)what do you guys use?
Who is speaking of tires? tongue.gif 42psi is the maximum pressure the tire is built for and it says so on the sidewall. 31/35 is the pressure indicated by the manufacturer of the bike. Most of us use a bit more.
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No_Twilight
The checking on the sidestand theory is completely unofficial and I believe it originated here. The idea is that the RT has so much oil that it doesn't miss a beat even when up to a quart low. That means that as long as you can see oil in the glass when the bike is on the side stand you are OK. Use this theory at your own risk!

 

Bob, Good explanation. I fully agree with how you've characterized the sidestand method. I still use the centerstand method. The problem I have with the sidestand method is that the angle of the sidestand varies from bike to bike. My RS leans over so far many think it is going to fall over. My K12RS is almost upright and I worry the wind could blow it over away from the sidestand. --Jerry

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My K12RS is almost upright and I worry the wind could blow it over away from the sidestand. --Jerry
The sidestand doesn't necessarily apply to K bikes, just Oilheads and possibly only R259s
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DavidEBSmith

The checking on the sidestand theory is completely unofficial and I believe it originated here.

 

I originally heard it from Joe Katz and Rob Lentini at the MOA National in Midland, whenever that was. And I may well have been one of those who spread it here.

 

The problem with the Official BMW centerstand method is that from the bottom of the sight glass (MIN) to the top of the sight glass (MAX) is only 1/2 liter. As everybody here whose ridden one of these for a while has found out, if you fill the oil above halfway, the motor blows it out into the airbox. Plus, anecdotally, the motor vibrates more if the oil level is high. And, we also know that the oil cooler and oil passages like to trap oil and dump it back into the motor hours or days later, so if you fill to the MAX level on the sight glass, you stand a good chance of having the motor overfilled with oil. Note that the Official BMW service manual says "Caution: Never add engine oil above the MAX mark", but they didn't add a special CAUTION about low oil level.

 

So you really want to shoot for having the oil level right in the middle of the sight glass, no higher. Which means the difference between the middle of the sight glass and the MIN level is only 1/4 liter.

 

Now, 1/4 liter out of 3.75 is pretty inconsequential to most, if not all, motors. You wouldn't worry about your car being 1/4 liter low. Almost nobody would bother to add oil to a car until it's a quart (liter) low. Indeed, since the allowable oil consumption on the Oilhead is 1 liter per 1000 miles (more or less), you could burn up 1/4 liter in one tank of gas.

 

Also, most people won't sit there and titrate the oil level. If you don't see oil in the sight glass on the center stand, you should put in no more than 1/4 liter at a time, because if it's just below the sight glass, that will bring it up to the middle of the mark. Nobody does that. Everybody just dumps in a quart if the oil is low. Not to mention, if you're out on a trip, it's a pain to be adding 1/4 liter at a time and lugging around a partially-filled bottle of oil that leaks into your underwear inside the saddlebag.

 

Now, if you look at the oil level while it's on the sidestand, experience says that when you can't see any oil in the sight glass, if you put the bike on the center stand and add oil, it will take about a liter. Plus, the oil cooler and lines seem to drain better when the bike is on the sidestand, so you get a more accurate reading (less trapped oil hiding) quicker.

 

So, people with much more wisdom about motors than me (Joe is a long-time BMW tech and Rob fixed Air Force airplanes) came up with the rule of thumb: If there's oil in the sight glass when the bike is on the sidestand, don't worry. If there isn't, add a quart.

 

It only applies to Oilheads, it's not Official BMW policy, for the first few thousand miles you should keep a closer eye on it.

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{{{If there's oil in the sight glass when the bike is on the sidestand, don't worry. If there isn't, add a quart. }}}

 

Thx David, point well taken. I'll do it that way from now on. thumbsup.gif

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ShovelStrokeEd

I carry that extra 1/4 liter in a 8 oz fuel bottle available at most camping stores. Takes up little room and, to date, about 200K miles worth in the past 5 years, it has never leaked. Just top up about 2500 miles into a trip. My oilheads just don't burn very much oil since they were both worn in properly from the beginning. Another topic.

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Chris,

 

Oh dear, you are entirely wrong about that grin.gif

Really READ my post instead of reacting to it.......it will become clear O! Glasshoppah grin.gifgrin.gifthumbsup.gif

 

Why else do you think I am part of the "collective" on this board and like to learn to, and help people, fix things thumbsup.gif

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So----WHY DON'T THE BMW DEALERS TELL YOU ABOUT THIS OIL CONSUMPTION STUFF UP FRONT????? confused.gif
SOME DO!!!!! smirk.gif

 

And very expressly go over the method to check it, quantify the amount represented by variance in the sight glass, and caution to have a regular routine to not over react to a discrepancy caused by oil staying in the cooling area.

This is much easier and cleaner than using a dipstick.

My KGT hasn't burned any oil for the past 12K miles.

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I carry that extra 1/4 liter in a 8 oz fuel bottle available at most camping stores. Takes up little room and, to date, about 200K miles worth in the past 5 years, it has never leaked.
Drafter Mike had the best idea I've seen for this, when he did his canisterectomy he took one end off the canister and left it in place, he keeps a small bottle of oil in there.
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And very expressly go over the method to check it, quantify the amount represented by variance in the sight glass, and caution to have a regular routine to not over react to a discrepancy caused by oil staying in the cooling area.

 

My dealer did an great job of instruction on how to check the oil, on centerstand, waiting etc , but he did't tell me that new BMW's use some oil and should be checked frequently.

 

I came from metric cruisers that don't use any oil so a 1,000 check interval is considered more than adaquate. New BMW's will use 1/2 a quart in that period . That can be quite a shock if you don't expect it.

 

These days, I check weekly and am happy to report that at 23k consumption is down to almost nothing. thumbsup.gif

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((((And to Christroh, if you bought a BMW before doing any research? All I can say is be an informed consumer...caveat emptor baby ! Don't start crapping about issues that can easily be Googled or discovered via this board and then get all wound up coz they happened to you !)))))

 

 

Damn! you're right! You've been so helpful! Thx, it's all clear now! So constructive.

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I have an 01 RT with 37K and as some have said I go through oil without any blue smoke. I check and add regularly and have zero leaks. Thats the way it is. Use the center stand.

 

Any thoughts on losing oil and the RT-P which can be started and warmed up on the side stand.

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Ok...Can we stop the sniping please ooo.gif!

 

I merely responded to the post after your oil level post...

quote

I believe you. Why didn't BMW just go to a dipstick or something. My God, you can't even check the oil without some complication. This brings up a whole other thread about the tranny and rocker noises, the shifting problems, the gas gauge, the windshield not being big enough, the spline problems, the surging, etc. I'm a little frustrated right now but sometimes it makes me want to go out and buy an OLD triumph. They made more sense!

You'd think BMW after all these years would try and refine these problems and get rid of these GREMLINS.

unquote

So, thank you, I was constructive...it just happened to be constructive CRITICISM grin.gifgrin.gif

Now...If you want constructive help, happy to do so mate thumbsup.gif

 

If your comment was meant on the "lighter side" and tinged with humour, may I politely suggest that you use smilies. Sometimes the written word offers zero nuance smile.gif

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No Phil, it wasn't constructive. But that's ok. I love my 02 RT. It has it's noises (normal for beemers) and other oversites, (normal for most bike manufacturers). So why do I detect hostility when I ask the questions about why some of these "problems" couldn't be fixed. AND be able to vent once in a while on this forum. You critisized me for not resezarching the beemer before buying. Well too late now, so all you can do is critisize me after the fact? Do I have to explain to you that I DID resarch it to a degree and I missed stuff that might have been on this forum. I have since found out on this forum that all the "gremlins" are nothing to worry about.

My logic says that BMW should know about these gremlins and fix them.

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ShovelStrokeEd

Chris,

If I may jump in between you and Phil here for a moment.

 

What you see as "problems" just aren't.

The transmission is different. IMHO, the windscreen is already too large and I have cut all of mine down. High RPM twins with Nikasil cylinder bores are likely to burn oil during the first 10K or even 20K miles if they are not broken in properly. The spline thing is well documented here and still only represents a very small proportion of the total number of bikes sold. As to surging, I have owned 4 oil heads, still have two and my bikes don't surge, agregate milage somewhere above 170,000 miles on those 4 bikes alone.

 

I don't really see what BMW should do about all this. Maybe you should start a campaign, yeah that's it. Call yourself Opharah or Daniel or some such.

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As I said, I've had no problems with my bike and have been assured that nothings wrong. Is it ok to question some things about them without the sarcastic remarks?

Off this topic, do you call yourself shovel because you owned or own a Harley Davidson? Just curious.

71 Honda 450/ 71 Triumph Trident 750/

48 Harley Panhead / 71 Moto Guzzi 750Ambassador

59 BSA A10 650 68 Triumph 500

69 BSA Firebird 650 75 Harley Davidson FL Drs

71 Triumph Daytona 67 Honda 160

78 Triumph 750 Bonneville 02 BMW 1150 RT (Have now)

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ShovelStrokeEd

Questions? Sure, questions are fine. Whining without understanding that the BMW is just different from what you experienced before not necessarily flawed, different, is what provokes the sarcasm.

 

My logic says that BMW should know about these gremlins and fix them.

 

You'd think BMW after all these years would try and refine these problems and get rid of these GREMLINS.

 

Anyone who owned a Guzzi and complains about rough shifting is letting nostalgia get in the way of logic. BTW, I own one and can speak with some authority on the matter.

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Christroh,

quote

And to Christroh, if you bought a BMW before doing any research? All I can say is be an informed consumer...caveat emptor baby ! Don't start crapping about issues that can easily be Googled or discovered via this board and then get all wound up coz they happened to you !

unquote

 

Sarcasm eek.gif? Where's the bleedin' sarcasm grin.gifgrin.gif??

 

Hostility smirk.gif? You better be prepared to back up THAT statement buddy

tongue.gif

 

So...PLEASE look at the Graemlins on a post!

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To nobody in particular, I think this looks like it is going round in circles. Lets get back on topic - low oil - or the thread gets locked.

 

Cya, Andy

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tickle_my_tummy

Oooooh - the power of the mods eh. We must be seen to agree with the mods. We are not allowed to disagree or have facts that differ with the mods views no matter how misinformed they are. Welcome to democracy.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
Oooooh - the power of the mods eh. We must be seen to agree with the mods. We are not allowed to disagree or have facts that differ with the mods views no matter how misinformed they are. Welcome to democracy.

 

confused.gif Who said anything about agreeing with the moderators? You're free to disagree; but we moderators are here to enforce (as Boffin just did) that such disagreements are expressed in a civil manner.

 

If you take issue with how we run this discussion board, you may discuss it with us privately, not publicly.

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You should be checking your oil on the centerstand method only- I know of no other. ,..., Chris thumbsup.gif

 

Me too. Evidently our oilhead oil check dance is due to the excellent oil cooler (wouldn't give it up for 10 extra hp !) I suspect if site glass was replaced w/dip stick, we'd still have to dance, waiting for oil to drain from cooler into sump.

Funny, when I bought my oilhead, dealer (way back in '98) stated that I could put some type of check valve or vent (vent, I think) in cooler so that oil would quickly return to sump once motor stopped. Being frugel and simple, I didn't pursue this. In the am, or when ever I take first ride of the day, I mite look at site glass (mite not as oil consumption for my 8 year old oilhead is nil); what with bike sitting still all night, whatever oil was captured in cooler or elsewhere has time to migrate to sump.

I think one of the wise men (Eebie) said it strait, with new ride, you have to monitor oil level regularly; once familiarity is gained, oil level requires less attention.

My recently removed honda XR400 has oil cooler and dry sump (most of oil in main frame's front down tube). With this bike, there's different oil check dance, namely, idle motor five minutes then kill switch and check oil level via down tube's old school dip stick.

To OP, if your oilhead isn't making any funny noises (knocking) I'd breathe sigh of relief, and let the incident go (but for sure, be more constant in site glassing).

 

Wooster

 

IQ test question "what is a fish w/no eyes ?"

For those playing at home the answer is "fsh"

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what with bike sitting still all night, whatever oil was captured in cooler or elsewhere has time to migrate to sump
Not if you leave it on the centre stand - it's stuck in the cooler unless leaned over while warm.
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Now Killer, granted you're an arrogant bastard (good to be up-front about it) and I'm secretly stuck-up (not up-front about that !) we have difference of opinion here vis a vis need for side stand. There are entire months when my side stand is on vacation; I rarely use it for any purpose, least of all for oil check dance.

Perhaps I do Texas two step for oil level check dance and you're more of an elegant waltz (that'll be me when I get arrogant).

You've six pinion nuts and I've five, what's that ?

No, not between meal snack, but difference of a pinion.

 

Wooster w/a pinion

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If you always leave it on the centre stand of course you will get the same reading, the oil is in the cooler and you are overfilling it by that much - which probably doesn't matter.

 

btw - I'm named after a beer.

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You always hear ( and read ) to run the bike until warm ,wait 10, then check the oil..

 

What's wrong with checking cold as when getting ready to go for a ride. That's what I do--is it wrong???

Seems like all the oil should be in the crankcase by then.

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My 71 Guzzi (which was the police model) shifted great. It had the v shaped shifter arm so you could shift with your toe or your heal.

I don't think there's one thing you'd agree with me (except checking your oil periodically- I don't dare be more specific or you'll disagree) with so lets drop it. teeth.gif

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You always hear ( and read ) to run the bike until warm ,wait 10, then check the oil..

 

What's wrong with checking cold as when getting ready to go for a ride. That's what I do--is it wrong???

Seems like all the oil should be in the crankcase by then.

 

Jeez, I can't believe how guys get so wrapped around the axle over this subject.

 

It's easy. If you can see oil and air through the sight glass you're good to go. So just go. These things are NOT sensitive to oil levels until you get into very large deficiencies. I'd ride mine all day long if I absolutely knew it was a quart low, with no thought of damage.

 

I'd sure rather do that than take off with a quart too much. Airbox flooding has been mentioned, as has been vibration. The one time I overfilled (because of observing the sight glass) the engine vibrated very badly until it ejected whatever quantity it didn't want. My opinion is that the excess oil causes vibration as it is being churned by the flywheels and crank throws.

 

I use an alternate method of maintaining an appropriate level, and I think some others, too. Keep in mind that kneeling to look at the sight glass is not a religious exercise: it is not an end in itself. The point is to make sure there's enough oil in the engine. How you do that is immaterial.

 

This method is only good once the engine is worn in.

 

Measure how much oil you use per change interval. Halfway through the change interval add however much oil you will have used by then. Then forget about it. I use about 1.5 qt per 6k miles, so at 3k I add a half to 3/4 qt. To validate, when I drain the oil to change it I check the quantity to make sure I don't have some gross consumption syndrome under way.

 

To enhance the riding experience and peace of mind, take a can of aluminum-colored spray paint and paint over the gahdam oil sight glass.

 

Pilgrim

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I carry that extra 1/4 liter in a 8 oz fuel bottle available at most camping stores. Takes up little room and, to date, about 200K miles worth in the past 5 years, it has never leaked.

 

I use a 16oz plastic hip flask found in a liquor store. Seems strong, packs flat and has a double cap. thumbsup.gif

 

Carry it on trips but never needed it.

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