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Jump Start??


Malthound

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My '04 RT has been in storage over the winter (long story involving divorce and the associated BS, but anyway...) and since there's no power in the unit, my battery has gone dead enough that the bike won't start. Here's the question: since I can't just plug in the little trickle charger for a few hours, It seems my options are either a ghetto jump-start from my truck using a long screwdriver to get to the positive terminal of the battery, or removing the battery and bringing it home and slow-charging it from there. Since this option requires, according to the book, removing both fairings and the gas tank yadda yadda, I'd rather not do this. Another (possible) option is that I have an inverter on my pickup that I can plug a charger into, but this means I'll have to idle my truck until I have enough charge to start the bike. My main goal is to find a storage option where I can keep it plugged in, but that's a separate challenge. Thoughts?

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Afternoon Jeff

 

Tough call without having the battery in front of me here to try to charge.

 

It m-i-g-h-t respond to jumping from your truck if you can get good connections (DON'T run truck engine when jumping it)

 

If that battery has been sitting there dead for a while it might not even take or hold a charge.

 

You might be time & frustration ahead to just buy a new battery up front & take that to the bike & install then be done with it.

 

You don't have to remove both fairings (just the L/H side) & you don't have to remove the fuel tank. You do have to remove the air cleaner top & the snorkel.

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The 04 Rt has a chrome lug in the center of the battery, making all this easier to jump.

Positive jumper cable goes there, I always use the header bolt for negative side.

Yes, don't run the car until you try it without.

I have had to turn a car on once, but the amps in car are 4-5 times as high as bike and may be enough without running.

If your battery is so dead it may work.

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I ran my battery down a couple of times with the seemingly useless parking lights that are so easy to turn on. Jump starting was a challenge because I was not able to deliver enough current through the thin wired homemade jumper cables I was using. I already had a two-pronged quick connect coming from the battery, but I'm going to redo it with 8 gauge wire and a 100 amp maxi fuse. And possibly carry around short thicker gauged jumper cables.

 

I tried push starting it, but no matter how fast I got the bike, when I opened the clutch the back tire just slid. I concluded that large bore 2 cylinder bikes must be more difficult to jump than 4 cylinder ones. I tried in first and second gear and had a pretty good running start, but no success. If anyone has figured out how to start the bike this way I'm all ears.

 

As for jumping from another vehicle, DR, you mentioned not running the other vehicle. Why is that? when I jumped it from another vehicle I did run the other vehicle but I can't remember if I turned it off while attempting a start.

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.....

 

I tried push starting it, but no matter how fast I got the bike, when I opened the clutch the back tire just slid. I concluded that large bore 2 cylinder bikes must be more difficult to jump than 4 cylinder ones. I tried in first and second gear and had a pretty good running start, but no success. If anyone has figured out how to start the bike this way I'm all ears.

 

......

 

Push start should not be tried in 1st or 2nd gear. Gear ratio is too low and you'll get the result you noted - rear tire will lock up and slide. Push start in 3rd gear should turn the motor. Push start would not work with a dead battery. There has to be enough juice in the battery to at least run the ignition and injectors.

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Not all 04 RT's have the chrome lug. I had to purchase it for my early 04 production RT.

 

Picture of chrome lug please. :grin:

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Push start should not be tried in 1st or 2nd gear. Gear ratio is too low and you'll get the result you noted - rear tire will lock up and slide. Push start in 3rd gear should turn the motor. Push start would not work with a dead battery. There has to be enough juice in the battery to at least run the ignition and injectors.

 

Thanks for the tip Michael. I did have enough power to turn the bike over just not to fully start. Third gear might have worked for me. I didn't think to try this because I've never push started a car in anything higher than second.

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Not all 04 RT's have the chrome lug. I had to purchase it for my early 04 production RT.

 

Picture of chrome lug please. :grin:

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Joe Frickin' Friday
.....

 

I tried push starting it, but no matter how fast I got the bike, when I opened the clutch the back tire just slid. I concluded that large bore 2 cylinder bikes must be more difficult to jump than 4 cylinder ones. I tried in first and second gear and had a pretty good running start, but no success. If anyone has figured out how to start the bike this way I'm all ears.

 

......

 

Push start should not be tried in 1st or 2nd gear. Gear ratio is too low and you'll get the result you noted - rear tire will lock up and slide. Push start in 3rd gear should turn the motor. Push start would not work with a dead battery. There has to be enough juice in the battery to at least run the ignition and injectors.

 

Have you tried it in third gear? Some years ago a friend was trying to push-start an R1100S. He tried first, then second, then third, and finally third gear with me sitting on the passenger seat behind him. We still couldn't get that rear wheel to spin through a compression stroke.

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Those jugs are BIG and takes some torque to get moving. When I brought the KGT home (weak Exide battery) I swapped it with the 680 in my RT. The Exide would NOT crank the RT!

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Eckhard Grohe

In the old days we used to back up the bikes while in gear till they were coming onto compression and then pull in the clutch. That way U got a complete rotation till they were on compression again and it gave u a chance to jump onto the seat and get more weight on the tire. Now I don't jump anymore. :(

 

I am not sure the chain guides will stand up to that abuse nowadays.

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I have never managed to bump start these boxers from a standing or push start.

I have been able to when freewheeling fairly fast down hill.

Still makes the back tyre yelp though!

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Great timing. I was just about to order these jump start parts for my bike (didn't come with 'em), and noticed that they also show up in the diagram for the starter assembly. I'm trying to make sense of that diagram. My initial assumption is that this second lug gives you a ground attachment. Is that right? If so, can you actually get to it with the tupperware on? Does the lug mount to that bracket, item 3?

 

Anyone out there with these parts installed on their 1150RT?

 

Bottom line is I'm looking to provide an easy ground location - something other than the header studs. I was considering just bending up some copper bar off the negative terminal, but I think a good connection off the engine is the proper way to go.

 

Thanks all.

 

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Afternoon waynerd

 

 

That bracket & stud you have shown for the starter is the (B+) not a ground (even though the parts diagram shows earth)

 

Those parts were basically factory installed on the 2004 GS-A but should fit the BMW 1100/1150 GS or R bike as the bracket bolts to the starter BIG B+ nut then a hole is drilled through the starter plastic beauty cover for the stud to stick through. (worked great as the rubber cap was snapped off then a jumper cable could be hooked direct to the B+ stud)

 

I have actually seen that kit (or part of it anyhow) installed on the 1100/1150RT but have no idea on what had to be modified for it to work (it will at least take a PRECISION drilled hole in the L/H Tupperware & possibly a new bracket or that one modified to get the stud to a location that it will stick through the L/H tupperware.

 

 

 

 

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Jeff,

 

Some comments:

 

- If you do find an AC power source for your battery tender: Keep in mind that the battery tender output is rated at something like 1.25 amps. And if your battery is fairly well discharged, it may take 8 or 10 or 12 or 14 hours (not the couple hours mentioned) to recharge the battery.

 

- If you do find a way to jump the battery from another vehicle's battery (truck, car, whatever).... let me repeat what someone else said: Have the other vehicle not running.

(maybe someone can verify if this advise applies to BMW alternators. I know for certain it does on Japanese regulator/rectifiers.)

 

 

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- If you do find a way to jump the battery from another vehicle's battery (truck, car, whatever).... let me repeat what someone else said: Have the other vehicle not running.

(maybe someone can verify if this advise applies to BMW alternators. I know for certain it does on Japanese regulator/rectifiers.)

 

 

 

Afternoon Redman

 

It really has nothing to do with alternators, it has to do with current flow. The host vehicle has a very large battery with a great amp output capacity.

 

You really want to limit the current flow into a semi-dead (small) motorcycle battery as much as you can).

 

The lower that the voltage is on the host vehicle battery the less abrupt the energy transfer into the motorcycle battery.

 

In most cases it isn't a problem either way as a basic dead motorcycle battery is pretty well self limiting on how much current it can accept (but) IF that motorcycle battery is damaged, shorted internally, or frozen then it can become an issue (but it could also be an issue even with the host vehicle not running)

 

Safest thing is to just not have the host vehicle running as a car or truck battery has W-A-Y more than enough output even with the engine not running.

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I hear what you're saying about the larger car alternator being too much for the small motorcycle battery, but if that is the case, why then wouldn't my bike start with the host vehicle running at high idle?

 

In my case, I think it was because my jumper wire gauge was too small. The wires were actually getting warm. And even still it took 30 minutes to an hour to charge the motorcycle battery up enough to start the bike. I think if I had very thick wires, then perhaps I might be able to jump the bike without the host car running. but I know that once a battery becomes sufficiently discharged, it becomes a drain on the charging process, and must either be removed in order to start the vehicle or charged up.

 

Also, there is a limitation on the amount of current that can be transmitted through alligator clips.

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Have you tried it in third gear? Some years ago a friend was trying to push-start an R1100S. He tried first, then second, then third, and finally third gear with me sitting on the passenger seat behind him. We still couldn't get that rear wheel to spin through a compression stroke.

 

That's funny that you tried this and failed. I was thinking I needed my wife on the back of the bike when push starting to get traction. But that was not possible because she was the one pushing the bike down the hill. :D

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Whoops, run out of time to edit the above post.

I wanted to remind you that this is not a feasable fit to the RT bike. You need to fit the Battery kit.

 

Also in case you didn't know, the there is a 'Negative' or 'Ground' post on the rear side of the lefthand cylinder head.

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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE: After trying to charge the battery, both with a fast charge and a trickle- charge it became apparent that the battery was beyond help. I purchased an Odyssey PC680 and it works great. My question pertains to the little BMW battery tender that was included when I purchased the bike (P/N 72 60 679 040). It plugs into the auxillary jacks on the side of the bike. Anyway, will this be sufficient for the Odyssey AGM battery or do I need to consider a different one?

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UPDATE: After trying to charge the battery, both with a fast charge and a trickle- charge it became apparent that the battery was beyond help. I purchased an Odyssey PC680 and it works great. My question pertains to the little BMW battery tender that was included when I purchased the bike (P/N 72 60 679 040). It plugs into the auxillary jacks on the side of the bike. Anyway, will this be sufficient for the Odyssey AGM battery or do I need to consider a different one?

 

Afternoon Malthound

 

Is that battery charger blue? If so it is probably the 72 60 7 679 040??

 

If it is the 72 60 7 679 040 then that is the BMW Gel battery charger. It will work on your Odyssey in an emergency but won't fully re-charge it as it charges at a little lower voltage than the Odyssey 680 AGM battery requires.

 

If you do use it just connect it until the battery is charged then disconnect it (don't leave it connected for long periods).

 

Unless your bike sits for long periods that Odyssey should not need placing on a charger.

 

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Thanks, DR. Yes, that is indeed the charger. Problem is, since my bike sits in a storage unit, I travel frequently for work, and Colorado winters can shut riding down for weeks or months, it can go sometimes many weeks between rides. I found a storage facility that has power available in each unit so now I can keep it charged, unlike the previous location where it ran completely dead. Ideally, I'd like to find a smart enough charger that I can keep it on - through the aux ports so I don't have to pull everything apart - for longer periods in the cases that I can't get to the bike to tend to it. Any suggestions?

Thx!

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Thanks, DR. Yes, that is indeed the charger. Problem is, since my bike sits in a storage unit, I travel frequently for work, and Colorado winters can shut riding down for weeks or months, it can go sometimes many weeks between rides. I found a storage facility that has power available in each unit so now I can keep it charged, unlike the previous location where it ran completely dead. Ideally, I'd like to find a smart enough charger that I can keep it on - through the aux ports so I don't have to pull everything apart - for longer periods in the cases that I can't get to the bike to tend to it. Any suggestions?

Thx!

 

What about a programmable timer outlet? Something like this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Enover-Programmable-Digital-3-prong-Appliances/dp/B0191ZGELS/ref=lp_495340_1_1?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1460321512&sr=1-1

 

Just set it up to turn on once a week for an hour or two...

 

As long as the unpowered charger doesn't act as a load to the battery, it should be OK.

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That looks promising, thanks. I'm also really wondering about what other folks have found to work well as battery tenders specifically for AGM batteries.

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That looks promising, thanks. I'm also really wondering about what other folks have found to work well as battery tenders specifically for AGM batteries.

 

Malthound,

 

I used the Odyssey Approved 12V Charger Listing and ended up buying a CTEK charger from Amazon. I've only had it a year, but so far so good.

 

Link:

http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEYapproved12Vchargers_SEPT2011.pdf

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Thanks, DR. Yes, that is indeed the charger. Problem is, since my bike sits in a storage unit, I travel frequently for work, and Colorado winters can shut riding down for weeks or months, it can go sometimes many weeks between rides. I found a storage facility that has power available in each unit so now I can keep it charged, unlike the previous location where it ran completely dead. Ideally, I'd like to find a smart enough charger that I can keep it on - through the aux ports so I don't have to pull everything apart - for longer periods in the cases that I can't get to the bike to tend to it. Any suggestions?

 

Morning Malthound

 

I think for what you intend to do I would NOT use a battery charger that inputs through the factory power outlet. Doing that keeps way too much of the bike's electronics powered up for long periods of time.

 

For what you want to do (a long term keep the charger attached) I would definitely use an Odyssey approved battery charger & connect it with either an SAE pig tail plug directly to the battery OR re-wire one of your factory power outlets to be fused battery direct (that is how I wire my front BMW accessory outlet).

 

 

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Great idea DR, thanks. I'm up for a service interval soon, so I'll probably install the pigtail when I take all the tupperware off again, or possibly look into rewiring the jack. I like the sound of that solution better, I think.

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roger 04 rt

If you remove fuses 3 (RID) and 5 (Motronic) (and a Kisan signal minder if you have one) the drain is tiny (~0.5 mA) and you don't need to keep a tender on it.

 

But if you don't mod the alternator and make short trips, a ctek is a good idea to finish charging the battery.

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Great idea DR, thanks. I'm up for a service interval soon, so I'll probably install the pigtail when I take all the tupperware off again, or possibly look into rewiring the jack. I like the sound of that solution better, I think.

 

Afternoon Malthound

 

You won't need to re-wire your power outlet (jack)-- I mis-spoke in what I wrote above. Somehow I mistakenly thought that you had a 1200RT (have no idea why as you properly posed in the oilhead section.

 

In any case your stock power outlet should be fine as your oilhead doesn't have a computer controlled power outlet.

 

 

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