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"Flawless"


Mike

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I was cheating ( :D ) and saw this on the MOA Facebook page, describing an owner's experience with his BMW that had 55,000 miles on the clock.

 

I don't doubt that some here have had their patience tested by problems with their Bavarian steed, but my experience has been very positive. How about yours?

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Lots of miles on four BMW bikes. Flawless would not be my description. Minor problems of course, but typical of any bike. My experience has been fast, comfortable, safe and a pure joy. My dealer support has been flawless.

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tom collins

I have owned 4.

1984 R100RS - ran very well. a fair amount of maint. compared to modern bikes such as the valves needed adjusting every 2500 miles. never left me anywhere and i had it from 59,000 to 90,000 miles.

 

1997 R1100RS - ridden from 25,000 miles to 50,000 miles. very close to flawless mechanically. easy to work on due to the lack of bodywork around the engine. easier abs II brakes as well. there was the vestage of the surge when i bought it, but a very close tune up and bosch 4418 plugs banished it.

 

2004 R1150RT - bought new to 40,000 miles. very good mechanically, two warranty issues. windshield stopped working and a shaft seal leaked, both fixed promptly and stayed fixed. no surging due to dual plug design. no other mechanical issues. still hear from my buyer who is over 80,000 with it and still no problems reported.

 

2003 K1200RS - bought 9 years old with 8,500 miles now about to turn 30,000. clutch has been slipping for last 2 seasons probably due to fact that bike was not ridden enough and the main shaft wept. does not seem to be getting much worse. my theory is that once it was ridden regularly again, the seal swelled back up and is not currently leaking but the plate is damp. about 90% power available before slip is noticed so still very fast. no other mech issues except an appetite for tires.

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Odd,a that this just popped up. In about 250k BMW miles I've had 1 leaky rear shock replaced under wty on my '09 1200GS. My headlight assembly was replaced this morning on my 2012 1200 GS. Wty expired 3 months ago but it was replaced under good will. Guess I've been lucky. :thumbsup:

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I can see how some might not think a BMW is reliable. My '04 had about 60K on it when I traded it. Far from problem free, I had to do some major repairs to it.

 

But it never left me stranded and required towing to a shop or home. Which is my most important measure of reliability.

 

My 2014 has to date been flawless. At 15K I had already had a major repair on the previous RT. I watched the Wethead carefully from the first hints of it till the GS became available. It looked like the final drive issues were gone. The performance was there, the clutch is much improved as is the transmission. Ergonomics much better. I just simply like Telever Suspensions. I bought my 2014 late in 2014 thinking it would be a better bike than my '04. Has not disappointed me in any way. Maybe, just maybe, BMW has another bike that can dispel some of the reliability rumors.

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Guest Kakugo

105,000km and counting on the Hexhead here.

Only problem would have been the FD crown bearing, but it didn't left me stranded (thanks DR) and cost less to replace than genuine Honda chain and sprockets kit. For the rest, just tear and wear, as to be expected from a bike run on far from silk smooth tarmac.

 

All in all it has been less troublesome than most Japanese bikes I've owned. Very impressed so far. Apart from headlight bulbs life expectancy! :rofl:

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1974 R90s (135k): Only two issues that I can recall in 36 years of ownership.

1. Rear wheel spline had to be rebuilt. Maybe if I knew to lube it, it would have lasted.

2. Broken transmission return spring (well documented in early five speeds). Stuck in 2nd gear. It happened the night before a big trip to the U.P., so...... :(

 

2002 R1150RT: 30k before I hit a deer in Idaho. zero issues, other than slight surging.

 

2004 R1150RT: (Daily commuter with 80k)

1. Fuel pump relay failure last summer, caused periodic stalling

2. Fuel gauge never shows more than 9 bars despite all my attempts to remedy.

3. Probably some other small things but nothing that comes to mind, or left me stranded.

Without a doubt, the best bike I've ever owned and one that puts a smile on my face on every ride.

 

1993 R100RT: 50k.

1. Rear shock oil leak. Covered under warranty. BMW allowed me to upgrade to a Works shock for $100. (nice of them I figured)

2. Transmission output shaft (front bearing) started getting noisy on return trip from Nova Scotia. Made it home with no issues.

 

Another bike, my wife's '73 R75/5 with about 160k on it, and not one single problem with the bike, other than a slipping clutch caused by me not installing the tranny input shaft properly during a spline lube maintenance.

 

I'm pretty anal about maintenance, which I believe contributes to long life.

 

RPG

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lawnchairboy

'06 R12RT with 71k: replaced leaking clutch slave cylinder, replaced starboard bow blinker assembly, the retaining tab broke, one headlight bulb. Two alternator belts, there sets of plugs, a couple of air filters, two sets of brake pads & Gas, oil, tires.

 

'11 GS with 23k: gas, oil, tires.

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I'd say "relatively" flawless. Compared to every other brand I've owned, BMW is by far the most reliable.

 

-MKL

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1968 R 50

1972 R 75/5

1980 R 100 RT kept until 2004

1996 R 1100 RSL sold 2005

2003 K 1200 GT current

 

Gas, oil, filters, tubes, tires, gaskets, points, plugs, bulbs.

 

1 oil return line on the GT (improper placement from factory caused rubbing). (warranty)

Rear seal on the GT, all new seals and clutch.

A short in GT heated seat (warranty).

Headlight wire GT(warranty).

 

Despite those issues, my favorite 2 up bike.

Never stranded, by any of them, knock on wood.

 

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I'd say "relatively" flawless. Compared to every other brand I've owned, BMW is by far the most reliable.

 

-MKL

 

+1

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I'd say "relatively" flawless. Compared to every other brand I've owned, BMW is by far the most reliable.

 

-MKL

 

+1

 

Add enjoyable and most likely to use for long trips, in comfort.

That is our experience over the decades (owned Honda/problems, Yamaha/problems, HD/don't ask).

:lurk:

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Flawless? Kind of...

1981 R100RT-50,000 miles and mechanically flawless

 

1997 K1100LT-30,000 miles and with the exception of the windshield motor, never an issue

 

2004 R1150RT-5,000 miles and a true POS-BMW bought it back, finally

 

2006 R1200RT-40,000 miles, one or two issues covered under warranty but overall a great bike

 

2011 R1200RT-30,000 miles, numerous issues with the switch gear all repairs under warranty or campaign

 

Intermixed with the BMW's I've owned three Harleys, a '91 Fat Boy, '10 Road Glide and my '14 CVO Road King. Outside of a fuel injector on the Road Glide they have been without mechanical issue as is my Yamaha FZ1.

 

My first large street bike was a KZ650, followed by a Z1R, Honda 900F, and a Ninja 1000R. Several chains and oil changes and while flogged severely, all were without mechanical issue.

 

I'll expect a mechanical issue or two on the BMW's and although the 2004 RT was a fiasco, there is nothing from my point of view that compares to a BMW.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I was cheating ( :D ) and saw this on the MOA Facebook page, describing an owner's experience with his BMW that had 55,000 miles on the clock.

 

I don't doubt that some here have had their patience tested by problems with their Bavarian steed, but my experience has been very positive. How about yours?

 

I think "flawless" is an impossible attribute for any relationship, and anyone using that term has surely been blinded by love.

 

My 1999 R1100RT was flawed. The final drive destroyed itself at 70K miles; barely made it home from Utah. It chewed up alternator belts; I never got one to last 36K miles like the manual said (some barely made it to 24K). The transmission ate up its input shaft bearing after 100K miles. The centerstand snapped at 100K miles, making me throw the bike on its side.

 

But I loved it. It was beautiful, unique, advanced, and had long touring legs. I only sold it when I finally started to get concerned about being stranded far from home, an expensive proposition (both in dollars and in precious vacation time).

 

I loved it enough to replace it with its descendant, the 2009 R1200RT, which comes with its own different set of flaws; a failed fuel pump controller, a rear-wheel spider replaced under recall, and of course that crack-prone fuel fitting that I reinforced myself before the recall happened. The styling is less lovely to my eye, but with 20 extra horsepower and one more gear (and cruise control to boot), the performance is better. I don't think I love it quite the same way I did my R1100RT, but I have no desire to replace it with anything else any time soon.

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There's flawless and work well. They don't always go together. I had a couple Kawasakis that had fewer problems than the BMW, but they didn't work as well. I think we can have both, but it doesn't always happen.

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I love riding the '13 1200RT -- my first BMW. But it wouldn't start after being stored for 2 months with <8,000 miles on it. Was in the shop for a week and the diagnosis was carbon buildup holding valves open.

 

rt_valve.jpg

rt_head.jpg

 

I can't think of anything I've done to cause such a problem, and the service manager's only guess is "maybe ethanol gas". The dealer was in touch with BMW technicians to figure out what the problem was and what to do about it.

 

I'm very disappointed with BMW since I've tried several times to get in touch with someone there to ask why this happened so soon, and what I can do to prevent it in the future. (And whether it'll be covered under warranty)

 

Customer Service says they can't answer the question and won't let me speak to a manager or anyone else.

 

Anybody else have a similar problem?

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Guest Kakugo

 

Customer Service says they can't answer the question and won't let me speak to a manager or anyone else.

 

Anybody else have a similar problem?

 

That's usually a problem associated with low detergent content in gasoline... do you always fill up at the same service station?

 

 

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In 1974 the dealer replaced the voltage regulator under warranty, and probably the battery, on my R75/5. Fortunately there was no problem starting the bike using the kick starter.

 

I've observed that I forget little problems that to others might be major memorable issues. Moto problems to me are often just little puzzles to be solved - kind of fun.

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I love riding the '13 1200RT -- my first BMW. But it wouldn't start after being stored for 2 months with <8,000 miles on it. Was in the shop for a week and the diagnosis was carbon buildup holding valves open.

 

rt_valve.jpg

rt_head.jpg

 

I can't think of anything I've done to cause such a problem, and the service manager's only guess is "maybe ethanol gas". The dealer was in touch with BMW technicians to figure out what the problem was and what to do about it.

 

I'm very disappointed with BMW since I've tried several times to get in touch with someone there to ask why this happened so soon, and what I can do to prevent it in the future. (And whether it'll be covered under warranty)

 

Customer Service says they can't answer the question and won't let me speak to a manager or anyone else.

 

Anybody else have a similar problem?

 

That doesn't look like any carbon build up I have seen. The key here is that it had sat for a long time without being run. I am 90% sure what you are seeing on the valve is corrosion, not carbon, and likely from ethanol in the fuel. I have seen similar looking components in small engines.

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That's usually a problem associated with low detergent content in gasoline... do you always fill up at the same service station?

 

 

No, not the same service station. So far, I've ridden the bike to different locations every few months. It's usually in storage for a couple months before I get back to it. But I always use premium gasoline and condition the fuel before storing. Is there a way to determine which gasolines have adequate detergent?

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I love riding the '13 1200RT -- my first BMW. But it wouldn't start after being stored for 2 months with <8,000 miles on it. Was in the shop for a week and the diagnosis was carbon buildup holding valves open.

 

rt_valve.jpg

rt_head.jpg

 

I can't think of anything I've done to cause such a problem, and the service manager's only guess is "maybe ethanol gas". The dealer was in touch with BMW technicians to figure out what the problem was and what to do about it.

 

I'm very disappointed with BMW since I've tried several times to get in touch with someone there to ask why this happened so soon, and what I can do to prevent it in the future. (And whether it'll be covered under warranty)

 

Customer Service says they can't answer the question and won't let me speak to a manager or anyone else.

 

Anybody else have a similar problem?

 

 

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Guest Kakugo

 

No, not the same service station. So far, I've ridden the bike to different locations every few months. It's usually in storage for a couple months before I get back to it. But I always use premium gasoline and condition the fuel before storing. Is there a way to determine which gasolines have adequate detergent?

 

There you go: Top Tier Gasoline

 

We've had lots of problems around here ever since some no-brand discount fuel services opened. Big box stores usually get their fuel from the same places as Exxon and other premium brands so they are not an issue, but these discount stations seem quite shady as far as fuel composition goes.

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I think it might be good to use an ethanol fuel stabilizer if any vehicle is going to sit for more than two weeks. There are several out there and I have had good luck with the Sta-bil brand for lawn mowers and such.

 

Alan

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Stan Walker

1996 R1100RT with 90,000 miles on it. Flawless! Never had a major breakdown. Never stranded me. Lubed splines and replaced clutch at 70,000 miles even though there was still remaining life in it.

 

1997 F650 Funduro with 12,000 miles on it. Almost flawless. Occasional float needle problems caused by not riding often enough.

 

1999 F650 Funduro with 23,000 miles on it. Bought used with 12,000. Almost flawless. Occasional float needle problems caused by not riding often enough. Oil pressure sender was replaced due to leaking.

 

2002 R1150RT with 134,000 miles on it. Flawless! Never had a major breakdown. Never stranded me. Lubed splines at 70,000 miles. Currently the bike is being 'refreshed': new clutch, new fuel pump, new driveshaft, even though there are no known problems. Just want to head off any problems in these known wear areas.

 

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roadscholar
I love riding the '13 1200RT -- my first BMW. But it wouldn't start after being stored for 2 months with <8,000 miles on it. Was in the shop for a week and the diagnosis was carbon buildup holding valves open.

 

rt_valve.jpg

rt_head.jpg

 

I can't think of anything I've done to cause such a problem, and the service manager's only guess is "maybe ethanol gas". The dealer was in touch with BMW technicians to figure out what the problem was and what to do about it.

 

I'm very disappointed with BMW since I've tried several times to get in touch with someone there to ask why this happened so soon, and what I can do to prevent it in the future. (And whether it'll be covered under warranty)

 

Customer Service says they can't answer the question and won't let me speak to a manager or anyone else.

 

Anybody else have a similar problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I us Star Tron about every two or three fuel ups. You can't overdose with it because it is an enzyme. I also run the crap out of it!

 

GT

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While my bike has never stranded me, I have had a couple of minor glitches.

 

At 64k, the FPC died, luckily I was home.

At 70k, the tranny was rebuilt.

 

Other than that, absolutely flawless ;)

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Individual anecdotal accounts are fine for what they are, but accurate data gather over a long period of time is the true measure.

 

The well documented rates of BMW final drive failures/issues is one glaring example of the brand falling way short of the flawless label.

 

As for my personal anecdotal account, I took my R1100RT to 175,000 miles, but not without a drive shaft failure in the boonies of western New Mexico along the way. Of greater concern is the number of friends on this board who have suffered rear drive failures.

 

Keep in mind that I'm not a friendly guy, and I still have a large number of friends who have suffered trip-ending failures from final drives as well as other issues.

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Individual anecdotal accounts are fine for what they are, but accurate data gather over a long period of time is the true measure.

 

The well documented rates of BMW final drive failures/issues is one glaring example of the brand falling way short of the flawless label.

 

As for my personal anecdotal account, I took my R1100RT to 175,000 miles, but not without a drive shaft failure in the boonies of western New Mexico along the way. Of greater concern is the number of friends on this board who have suffered rear drive failures.

 

Keep in mind that I'm not a friendly guy, and I still have a large number of friends who have suffered trip-ending failures from final drives as well as other issues.

 

If a final drive failure was the only issue after 175,000 miles I would be happy. Don't think that bike owed you anything. Just MHO . YMMV .

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Individual anecdotal accounts are fine for what they are, but accurate data gather over a long period of time is the true measure.

 

The well documented rates of BMW final drive failures/issues is one glaring example of the brand falling way short of the flawless label.

 

As for my personal anecdotal account, I took my R1100RT to 175,000 miles, but not without a drive shaft failure in the boonies of western New Mexico along the way. Of greater concern is the number of friends on this board who have suffered rear drive failures.

 

Keep in mind that I'm not a friendly guy, and I still have a large number of friends who have suffered trip-ending failures from final drives as well as other issues.

 

 

If a final drive failure was the only issue after 175,000 miles I would be happy. Don't think that bike owed you anything. Just MHO . YMMV .

 

I agree for the most part on my bike; the distinction being that BMW should have listed the drive shaft as a replacement item at x number of miles. They should also have stepped up on the well known issue with their use of substandard wiring on the HES units. Lots of people avoided problems by replacing the wiring at their own expense before a failure occurred.

 

But as mentioned, it is the long list of close acquaintances with low mileage bikes with final drive and other failures that is what I find troubling in light of the fact that BMW steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the obvious weakness in design or manufacture.

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Dave_zoom_zoom

I find troubling in light of the fact that BMW steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the obvious weakness in design or manufacture.

 

 

True! There has been more than a little lack of acknowledgement in the not to distant past.

 

However! It seems to me by BMW "now" covering several of the more common problems with extended warranties they seem to be on their way back to becoming the very repeatable BMW I used to know and love.

 

Dave

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At least you've solved the problem by not having a BMW any longer.

Congrats!

 

I guess I could have taken another direction and instead of sticking with my one BMW I could have bought 10-15 new BMWs along the way so that I could have made 250K BMW miles with minimal problems.

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I find troubling in light of the fact that BMW steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the obvious weakness in design or manufacture.

 

 

True! There has been more than a little lack of acknowledgement in the not to distant past.

 

However! It seems to me by BMW "now" covering several of the more common problems with extended warranties they seem to be on their way back to becoming the very repeatable BMW I used to know and love.

 

Dave

 

That is what I'm hearing and it is a good sign, but once a company or person gets a certain reputation they have to work two or three or?

times harder to get back what could have/should have been taken care of before it became an issue.

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2bikersandabordercollie

The only thing that has stopped my K1600 are Gas, Tires, and a wet nose to the neck...

 

I love this bike, it takes a beating with style and aplomb.. (is that a word?)

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I love this bike, it takes a beating with style and aplomb.. (is that a word?)

 

Not to jinks ya but no squeaky front suspension?

My GT came down with a case of squeak-itis (you get one I get one :grin:) that seemed to be incurable. Best solution at the time was to amputate four cylinders. :grin:

 

Loved the bike other than that! :thumbsup:

 

Pat

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2bikersandabordercollie

Not to jinks ya but no squeaky front suspension?

My GT came down with a case of squeak-itis

Pat

 

Not a single squeak, and its a early 2013 model. The only problem was the cruise control tab, which was replaced under a switch cluster recall a couple of years ago.

 

Tires... well that's another matter. Tobi keeps whispering 'faster' in my ear... That makes for shorter than normal tire life!

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HD had crank problems and breather problems that weren't embraced by the headquarters among other things.

Honda had fork/frame issues not stepped up to immediately and there's a rumor they closed USA site for Goldwings (jobs).

There are/have been/will be examples all around.

 

BMW certainly has had issues and for sure there were/are/will be times they didn't do what they should've (or too slowly), IMO.

 

But this thread seems to me to be one of how has your BMW experience been not an overview of

the marque in total.

Could be way off as I often am, but seems like OP was just asking me about mine etc.

 

No real point I guess, my 5 beemers were mostly hung on to for a long time, and the hundreds of thousands of miles have been wonderful.

At the dealership I saw plenty of issues, but they were with other folks bikes so IMO, that's another thread.

OP feel free to correct me.

And a big thanks to Phil and Dave for saving us bandwdith :grin::wave:

Best wishes.

 

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Mixed but positive.

 

'05 RT for 84K miles was a shop queen. Seals, rotors, tranny bearings, cam tensioner, drive shaft explodie, etc.

 

'10 RT for 86K miles has been bullet proof with only one valve semi-sphere and a FD seal.

 

'13 RT for 18K miles without any issues.

 

Bill

 

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3 1200RTs an 05, 08 and a 2015. All three flawless! 2012 K1600GTL a couple of water pumps and one transmission. BMW stood behind everything with no arguments.

They been very good to me. GT

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fourteenfour

98 R1200C had a frame replacement as the steering head was toast; this was a warranty fix.

 

I don't remember the count on fuel strips replaced on the various bikes I owned. Knock on wood, never suffered engine or final drive issues

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I've owned 4 RTs, all carefully maintained and garage-kept.

 

No problems with my '85 or the '00 or the '13. By far the worst was the '06 (that I bought used a year old at 1500 mi.) with failed whizzy brake ABS controller, case oil leaks in 2 places and several other failures like 5 fuel strips, cracked fuel pump collar, etc. Repair total $3000+ for that one bike that I sold before it got to 20k mi. That hurt. Of course BMW corp made out since I had to buy their repair parts and the dealer got some repeat service business.

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Here are some statistics through which to filter all such evaluations.

 

According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, the "average" street bike in the U.S. is ridden 2,100 miles per year. Two Thousand Miles!!! And the average length of ownership is 5.2 years. So, essentially, the average ownership experience extends some 11,000 miles. And here we are, not as BMW riders but as sport touring and touring riders, talking about motorcycles that we've ridden 5, 8, 10 times that far, and comparing our notes to see whether or not our brand is "reliable." Every single motor vehicle out there is "reliable," until it's not. If you got 150,000 miles out of your bike, and it then leaves you stranded in the middle of BFE on a cold night, you're going to hate it. You may say it doesn't owe you anything, but you're still going to hate it. In a perfect world, all failures would take place in our garages, and they would announce themselves clearly, so as to mitigate diagnostic costs.

 

Motorcycles, by nature, are more stressed than cars. Even with pulling more weight, a 3-liter V6 Toyota producing 200hp is a lot less stressed than a 1.2 liter motorcycle making 140hp. Want to know why Gold Wing engines seem to run forever? 1.8 liters and a ton of torque, but not much HP and therefore, not much RPM. So not that much mechanical stress.

 

Transmissions, too, take a beating. Drive a sports car with the kind of attitude we ride with, and that tranny isn't going to go the distance either. We generally do "abuse" our motorcycles when compared to our other vehicles. I've friends, retired from vehicle testing at Japanese manufacturer, who said they abused their test cars in order to find if there were flaws, but they didn't stop abusing the bikes until they broke them. That's a big difference in expected consumer usage practices.

 

There are BMWs, Hondas, Harleys, everything that have gone 100K, 200K and more without a worthy-mention problem. And there are those that have had problems from day one. THOSE are the ones we hear about. And they're by far in the minority. But their owners are the loudest (understandably so). But that's also why there's a law of averages. And on average, all brands are a thousand times better than they used to be. I was an editor at Cycle World in the 70's. And there were some truly bad motorcycles. Hard-starting, cantankerous, evil handling, brakeless, vibrating POS that the public needed to know about. Today, I don't even read the magazines because all bikes start easily, handle well, stop smartly, and are reliable (and even at 50-cents an issue, I'm not going to pay to find out this year's quarter-mile times). Oh sure, there are some minor degrees of difference between them. And the type of performance they deliver does need to be discussed (shrieking power, stump-pulling torque, all-day vibrationless ride, etc.). But BAD bikes? There aren't any. And manufacturers are working harder every year to fine tune out the last few remaining areas of imperfection.

 

I'm not glossing over the problems. If you got a lemon, you got a lemon and go ahead and tell everyone about it. But the days of motorcycle ownership being an "iffy" experience from a reliability standpoint, are pretty much over.

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Thanks, EffBee, for adding context to the discussion.

 

As an aside, I find it interesting that I think nothing of hopping on my BMW and riding across North America, but would never contemplate doing that in my car (though not because of reliability concerns about the car).

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Nicely put Effbee.

 

I'd also agree if you rode motorcycles in the 60s and 70s and compare them to motorcycles today regardless of manufacture , you'd realize what a wonderful thing it is to be able to hop on your motorcycle and ride down the road knowing that the odds are in your favor, it won't break down. :clap:

 

And now, let the BMW bitching continue. :wave:

 

MB>

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Enough already! I rode a Triumph Bonny in the 60s and 70s and I can tell you for sure when I left on a trip I never knew what would fall off or break. GT

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Actually, in the 60's, I experienced that with Honda, Yamaha, and HD.

 

Then I got a '68 BMW and all bets off as it would go anywhere, anytime.

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Want to talk about a true PO Crap! :eek: I was left stranded in the neighborhood sandpit more times than I can remember on one of these mini bikes. Clutch problems, I believe. The disappointment I felt as an eight Y/0 during the 200 yard walk back home may have left scars. :(:rofl: Man, I do wish that thing got tucked away somewhere, though. :thumbsup:

72whiskers_comp_r.jpg

 

Pat

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