Oil accumulating near final drive

[Indy Dave]

I have fresh oil accumulating from what I'd guess to be the final drive?

 

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[dirtrider]

Afternoon workin them angels

 

It looks like the R/H final drive seal is leaking but oil migrates so clean it up (real clean) then take it for 20 minute ride then re-inspect it.

 

Was it overfilled at last final drive gear oil change?)

[Guest Kakugo]

It happened both on my RT and my brother's GS.

It's the final drive outer oil seal.

Both ours were seeping while your appears to have blown by the quantity of oil on the wheel.

 

Nothing really major. It cost me 40€ to have mine fixed.

[Indy Dave]

Thank you both for your input. I'm sure it wasn't over filled when I last changed the final dive fluid last Winter.

 

I'll get it cleaned up and ride some. I just got the bike back from loaning it to a friend, who I'm sure rode it like he stole it. He's got the fever for a RT, so I let have the bike for a few days.

 

Thanks again, I'll report back.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

A little bit of talc will help with early detection.

 

[Indy Dave]

Just a follow up: Cleaned up rear axle per DR and oil appeared again at the RH Final Drive oil seal. I did that back in October and I've finally gotten around to starting my Winter Maintenance and Farkel projects. I replaced the seal today - simple job and quick. Nice test ride after and no sign of leak.

 

My oil leak in front of the rear shock is next. This will probably require the expense of the dealer. I'm going to tear off all the tupperwear to see if I can at least locate the culprit.

 

Thanks one and all.

 

 

[Bernie]

Sounds like you are making progress.

[Indy Dave]

Lots to do, Bernie! Hope to have a high mileage season this year. I'll get this other leak nipped and work on a few refinements. Hope to see you next month!

 

Here's a link to a JVB pictorial.

 

linky

 

 

[Don_Eilenberger]

My oil leak in front of the rear shock is next. This will probably require the expense of the dealer. I'm going to tear off all the tupperwear to see if I can at least locate the culprit.

 

Thanks one and all.

 

Have a photo of this one? It may not be overly serious..

[Indy Dave]

Don - I don't have a great photo of this as yet. I've had the issue for 2 or maybe 3 years. It's most noticeable at a stoplight or stop sign, I'll get a slight oil burning smell. But oil will heavily cake along the bottom of the frame behind, below and in front of the rear shock. Some have suggested it was the rear shock. But this issue has continued despite changing out my Works set up for Wilbers (ESA).

 

We had great riding weather here in Indiana this weekend - too good to have the bike down. I'll get the plastic off this week and post pictures.

[Don_Eilenberger]

We had great riding weather here in Indiana this weekend - too good to have the bike down. I'll get the plastic off this week and post pictures.

Look forward to seeing the photos. Quick question - where do you keep your engine oil level?

[Indy Dave]

I try not to let it get below the sight glass, and I try to top of off to the top of the glass - understanding there is a delay between adding oil and the trickle down effect of the sight glass. This is probably what you're getting at - it's certainly possible it's been over topped slightly. But I'm not sure that would account for the length of time I've had the burning smell.

[Don_Eilenberger]

I try not to let it get below the sight glass, and I try to top of off to the top of the glass - understanding there is a delay between adding oil and the trickle down effect of the sight glass. This is probably what you're getting at - it's certainly possible it's been over topped slightly. But I'm not sure that would account for the length of time I've had the burning smell.

 

Just a thought. The excess oil seems to accumulate in the bottom of the airbox, then somehow leak out of it on top of the transmission.. and depending on wind patterns under the bike - gets blown back to come out where??

 

On the R1200R it comes out so it looks just like a leak around the transmission output shaft seal. Other models it may get blown differently, and I could see it ending up where yours is on an RT (much more enclosed in that area then an R..)

 

Fix was very inexpensive. Remove the air-filter (I know that requires tupperware removal on your bike) - then stick a rag wrapped around a long stick in. Start mopping up the bottom of the airbox. Continue until no more oil soaked rag happens..

 

BTDT - fixed the "seal problem" on my '07 for $00.00 - unlike the dealer estimate of > $500.

 

Just a thought before major disassembly happens.

[Indy Dave]

Just a thought. The excess oil seems to accumulate in the bottom of the airbox, then somehow leak out of it on top of the transmission.. and depending on wind patterns under the bike - gets blown back to come out where??

 

On the R1200R it comes out so it looks just like a leak around the transmission output shaft seal. Other models it may get blown differently, and I could see it ending up where yours is on an RT (much more enclosed in that area then an R..)

 

Fix was very inexpensive. Remove the air-filter (I know that requires tupperware removal on your bike) - then stick a rag wrapped around a long stick in. Start mopping up the bottom of the airbox. Continue until no more oil soaked rag happens..

 

BTDT - fixed the "seal problem" on my '07 for $00.00 - unlike the dealer estimate of > $500.

 

Just a thought before major disassembly happens.

 

It's a good thought, Don, thanks you and you might be right. I hope to pull off the bits tomorrow night and look around. I'll also checkout the airbox - I hope that's the answer!!

[Indy Dave]

The air filter runners were fine.

 

I think it's a brake fluid issue?

 

photo bucket

 

 

[dirtrider]

The air filter runners were fine.

 

I think it's a brake fluid issue?

 

 

Morning workin them angels

 

What makes you think it is brake fluid?

 

The pictures don't really show us leak origin or fluid type.

 

Your clutch hydraulics use mineral oil not brake fluid like the older 1100/1150.

[Indy Dave]

An early good morning to you, Sir.

 

Just guessing. That area is difficult to photograph - thus the link to many photos. The inside of the more forward boot is pretty well gunked up - but it's hard to see anything in front of that wet. I notice in that area either brake or clutch slave like junctions. One is these has a fair amount of residue on it. Then, opening the reservoir, I note it appears down significantly. So just a guess. It was late.

 

But your point is well taken - the photos do not help much in figuring out what is causing the issue, except it's clear that it's forward of the rear shock. Obviously - I need to familiarize myself with the hydraulic system of the bike (if for nothing else then to properly identify clutch and brake pieces). Thanks also for the reminder about the mineral fluid!

[dirtrider]

Morning workin them angels

 

When you a chance put a white glove on (or use a white paper towel) & reach up on top of the rear engine oil sump porch (very difficult to get to).

 

If oil found on top of rear engine sump then a good possibility that your rear balancer shaft seal is seeping. (the leak is actually inside the trans front housing but the oil seeps out at the trans to engine case seam between mid engine & starter side area)

 

I have seen a number of those rear balance shaft seals leak on the 1200 hexhead engines.

 

If that is the leaking area then you m-i-g-h-t be able to address it (or slow it down) with an oil type change and/or an oil seal conditioning oil additive.

 

[Don_Eilenberger]

The air filter runners were fine.

 

I think it's a brake fluid issue?

 

photo bucket

 

 

Air-filter runners are? Never heard that term before..

[Don_Eilenberger]

I notice in that area either brake or clutch slave like junctions. One is these has a fair amount of residue on it. Then, opening the reservoir, I note it appears down significantly. So just a guess. It was late.

 

This is a significant clue - as the clutch wears the clutch fluid level rises. The only way it's going to be "down significantly" is if there is a leak.

 

SO - question is - where did the clutch hydraulic fluid go to?

[Indy Dave]

Morning workin them angels

 

When you a chance put a white glove on (or use a white paper towel) & reach up on top of the rear engine oil sump porch (very difficult to get to).

 

If oil found on top of rear engine sump then a good possibility that your rear balancer shaft seal is seeping. (the leak is actually inside the trans front housing but the oil seeps out at the trans to engine case seam between mid engine & starter side area)

 

I have seen a number of those rear balance shaft seals leak on the 1200 hexhead engines.

 

If that is the leaking area then you m-i-g-h-t be able to address it (or slow it down) with an oil type change and/or an oil seal conditioning oil additive.

 

 

 

Hello DR - Thanks for the photo, I'll get to that this afternoon.

 

The air filter runners were fine.

 

I think it's a brake fluid issue?

 

 

Air-filter runners are? Never heard that term before..

 

LOL - I thought that sounded good for the tubes leaving the air box and feeding the heads.

 

I notice in that area either brake or clutch slave like junctions. One is these has a fair amount of residue on it. Then, opening the reservoir, I note it appears down significantly. So just a guess. It was late.

 

This is a significant clue - as the clutch wears the clutch fluid level rises. The only way it's going to be "down significantly" is if there is a leak.

 

SO - question is - where did the clutch hydraulic fluid go to?

 

I have an 06 - pwr assisted brakes. I had the dealer change out the fluid last Winter. So things should have been full. I did ask them to look for a oil leak when they did that and I got nothing back from them on that.

 

[Indy Dave]

The best clue I have is that the most front horizontal area of the rear swing arm is collecting gunk that is fairly dry. The wettest area with oil/gunk is the forward rubber boot that covers (I'm guessing) the output shaft. Both sides of the boot have gunk. The boot appears to be snug with a band. The shift lever and connector rod also have gunk on them.

 

I did not see a source of the leak - not sure I was able to see the area DR was talking about.

 

Don: to be clear - the master cylinder appears low to me - that's under the riders seat, correct? The the clutch is a separate system? On my E34 M5 and E28 533i the clutch hydraulics are on the same system as the brakes.

 

Edit: I'll go ahead and change the tranny (and final drive) for kicks - and measure fluids as the come out.

 

[Indy Dave]

Just to follow up: I'm not seeing an obvious origin of the leak. I've thoroughly washed and cleaned the areas. I have all the tuperwear off and have some more projects to complete on the bike. I'll ride the bike without the plastic to see where fresh fluid appears and re-investigate. My sense is that it's mineral oil I smell burning, the odor is a little more subtle than motor or gear oil I think.

 

 

[Don_Eilenberger]

Don: to be clear - the master cylinder appears low to me - that's under the riders seat, correct? The the clutch is a separate system? On my E34 M5 and E28 533i the clutch hydraulics are on the same system as the brakes.

 

First lets resolve which circuit we're talking about..

 

The clutch circuit is completely separate from the brake system. The clutch master cylinder is part of the lever assembly on the left handgrip. It does NOT use brake fluid. Putting brake fluid in it is a very costly mistake to make (basically you have to replace everything as the brake fluid attacks the rubber bits.) It uses mineral oil. If that cylinder reservoir is low - there is a leak. The reservoir is also part of the grip assembly. As the clutch disk wears it is normal for the fluid level in the clutch reservoir to RISE not drop.

 

The whizzy (power) brake system has two primary (control circuit) reservoirs and two secondary (power circuit)reservoirs. the primary ones are located on the handgrip right side for the front, and under the seat for the rear. The secondary reservoirs are part of the ABS/power unit, and filling them requires some knowledge and special tools. I'd suggest seeking out someone with some experience checking these if you want to service the brakes.

 

They are really nothing at all like an automotive system.

[Indy Dave]

Don - I had the brakes serviced (fluid change) about one year ago at the local dealer. The read brake (under the seat) reservoir is what seems low to me. In the picture, this boot seemed to have more oil on it than any other area except under the bike. It may be that oil is leaking down from a more centric position and collecting on the underside of the swing arm, and the forward boot is just catching oil blown around. I note that there is a brake junction located just above the boot - but it seems dry.

 

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[Don_Eilenberger]

That's the front swingarm boot - and that's exactly where oil accumulated on my '07 R1200R (it's much easier to see on a semi-naked bike like the roadster) when there was an oil accumulation in the airbox.

 

On an RT with all the closed fairing - I'd expect the pattern to perhaps be a bit different since air patterns around the engine/transmission are going to be different, but if that's where oil is accumulating, I'd remove the air-filter, then go probing in the airbox with a towel wrapped around the end of a stick and see what you come up with.