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I picked up an r1100rt and...


chopsieze

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would love advice from you guys with experience! It has 106,000 miles but doesn't seem abused and the PO gave me a rundown on the history so I think it should have some life left.

 

I've never ridden anything newer than an 87 Yamaha (other than my trail bike) so not really sure what to expect or compare it to. I want to ask about this "surge" though. Mine has it for sure, backfires, and doesn't idle great. It will die if the engine is revved and let off completely. I just replaced the plugs with the cheap autolite, as I've read have good results. They helped some with it's response and power. I also read about running lower octane to help with the lean condition but haven't drained or ran the gas through it yet. I feel I can trust it to ride wherever and has power to get up to speed but with poor idle it's a bit annoying riding in the city.

 

Hoping someone can help me with a plan to get it running bit better. As of now thought I would:

 

- Test battery, it seems a bit weak

- Drain fuel, replace fuel filter, try 89 octane

- Check resistance on plug wires

- Replace air filter

- Replace throttle cable

- Clean fuel injectors (I have a small ultrasonic cleaner and have cleaned them on my car, but not sure these are the same)

- Learn how/attempt to balance throttle bodies

 

Please comment, add or help me revise my plan :)

 

Thanks!

 

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szurszewski

First, what you're describing is not what people mean - for this bike anyway - when they talk about surge. Surge in the oilhead boxer sense is when you're holding steady throttle on, say, an even road, and the bike sort of feels like it's adjusting the throttle for you a bit - which is to say, if you held steady, it would feel like it was alternatively speeding up and slowing down over and over.

 

You sound like you have some more major running issues to deal with first. After that, you may or may not have the surging issue, but wait unitl you reach that bridge before worrying about crossing it.

 

Before you start worrying about synching the throttle bodies, do make sure your cables are all working properly, and then maybe get in to check and adjust the valves. Others will come along with suggestions on getting the electrics and fueling sorted out.

 

Good luck!

josh

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Thanks, I wasn't too clear with my description. I meant to say I believe I have surge (at lower rpms) along with back firing and poor idle. The most annoying thing is that if I don't keep on the throttle when stopped I never know if it will die. Also, (at lower rpms especially) the rpms tend to bounce around.

 

The bike cuts out when leaving from a stop around the 2500-4000 range and suddenly comes back to life. I notice it in 2nd and 3rd gears also. It has died and chirped the back tire if while rolling through traffic slowly or coming to a stop if not on the clutch. Not that I'm a great motorcyclist, but I don't think it's me going too slow without the clutch :) I've been trail riding a lot lately on my dirt bike and it's helped my clutch/throttle skills some. When it's in neutral I can't get a smooth or precise rpm control (especially in the 2500 to 4000 rpm) it will go up and down on it's own... I don't notice it as much on the highway or in higher rmps. I figured higher gears would be harder to notice a lurch or surge.

 

Does that sound like "surge"? it doesn't really matter I guess, it's not right either way. You're right about dealing with other issues. Oh, the PO said the valves were adjusted about 6,000 miles ago but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to check them myself.

 

ps. maybe someday I'll be able to ride it out to Portland and let you see what it needs (hopefully nothing 'major' by then)! I love that part of the country and have lots of family in Portland.

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The other thing is it doesn't start very easy. The PO showed me how he does it by hitting the starter button (with the enricher on) for short bursts until it starts. Usually after 3-4 times it will start. He said if I just hold the button in and let it crank it doesn't help. It will take 3-4 times whether I'm letting it crank for 5 seconds or 55 seconds.

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The bike cranks over fine (I should have made that clear in my previous post), just doesn't fire immediately. I was figuring it was all related to needing some slight tuning. Does the starter affect the starting of the bike in some other way if it's still turning over?

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I would start from the beginning.

1. valve adjustment. Easy for someone mechanically inclined.

2. TB adjustment. As said above check the cables. Do search here and you'll find lots on this and how to check the cable slack. The bypass screws may be junked up so pull the TB's and clean them up first. DON'T mess with the stop screws, especially if they have the blue loctite on them still.

 

Do those first then see how she runs and let us know. It should not be hard to start and I would almost never recommend hitting the starter for short bursts. You can let it crank for a few seconds before letting off it. My bike takes a few cranks before firing up in the morning, but it is fairly well tuned.

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szurszewski

The only time my bike takes more than a normal push on the starter to start is when it's been sitting for a long time - like multiple weeks - and even then it will more likely start and die, and then start perfectly on the second press of the button.

 

I'm no mechanic, but "blipping" the starter button seems like a good way to mess up the gear on the starter or the teeth on flywheel - but maybe that's just in my mind.

 

In the tuner world, where you hear about thing in "stages" where you start at one and work your way up ... but when you get a used vehicle, you really need to go back to stage zero - which is to say, before trying to make things "better" you need to get things back to where they should have been from new. It really sounds like your bike has a bunch of, hopefully, minor things not quite as they should be.

 

I'd be a bit suspect of the judgement, as far as the valves, of someone who overcomes a starting issue by just stabbing at the button.

 

You're more than welcome to come by if you make it to Oregon - but I'm not the person you'd want to bring your bike to if you wanted anything fixed :) on the other hand, if you wanted someone to hand you a beer and stand next to you scratching his head while you look at your bike and scratch your head, well, I'm really good at that.

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haha, sometimes someone handing me a beer and saying "yup" every once in a while is enough motivation :)

 

Yeah, I don't hit the button without letting it crank I usually let it turn over 3-4 times (or more) before I let off the button and repeat a few times before it starts. The PO didn't tell me to blip it, he just told me it didn't help to let it turn over 50 times. For whatever reason no matter how long you let it turn over it won't fire till the 3rd or 4th time. I was thinking it was a full pump thing so I would turn the key, let it prime and do that a few times but it didn't work. For whatever reason, the bike likes to be asked a few times before starting. Maybe playing hard to get.

 

He seemed pretty meticulous and had some spare parts he gave me etc... I think the valves were done at the dealer but I want to see for myself.

 

I will start with the valves and figure out the TBs. I think that sounds like a good plan.

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szurszewski

That sounds like a much less destructive way to start it :)

(I was imagining you going rrrrrp---rrrrrppp-rrrrrppp until it "caught"!)

 

If it's consistent in the number of times it takes to turn over to start, then I would think it's not a spark issue. Fuel? Like, maybe just having the pump run at key-on isn't building enough pressure? It's pretty easy to pull an injector and see if you're getting a good spray (point it into a clear glass jar so you don't spray gas all over the place).

 

Any idea when the filter was last changed, or if/when the internal tank hoses to/from the fuel pump were changes? There's a u-shaped one in there that likes to crack and seep pressure.

 

 

And if I didn't stress this before, I really have very little idea about what I am talking :)

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chopsieze, your bike sounds like it needs a full service to establish a baseline.

New plugs

New air filter

Maybe a new fuel Filter

and as Trobinson has said:

Valve clearances,

Remove and clean the idle BBS's (Big Brass Screws).

Clean the internal galleries of the throttle bodies.

Then carefully do a Throttle body balance.

Don't fiddle with the throttle stop screws

At this stage Don't do a 0=0 check.

Get everything els in place and take it forward logically one step at a time.

What you have described is not surging. Certainly not while you have so many other issues going on.

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Jim, I use the choke when starting.

 

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I have a new air filter coming and think I will get some new plug wires while I'm at it (he didn't remember ever changing them). He gave me a new fuel filter and a 3 ring binder with a paper copy of the oilhead maintenance manual and a few other goodies.

 

I'm looking forward to doing all this servicing and hopefully for good results.

 

I'm also planning to order the bosch oil filters from BeemerBoneyard. Does anyone use Rotellas diesel oil in their bikes? There are tons of good reviews on it on other bikes but I've never had a newer bike like this and haven't researched people using it on them. The PO said he always ran amsoil.

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Jim, I use the choke when starting.

 

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I have a new air filter coming and think I will get some new plug wires while I'm at it (he didn't remember ever changing them). He gave me a new fuel filter and a 3 ring binder with a paper copy of the oilhead maintenance manual and a few other goodies.

 

I'm looking forward to doing all this servicing and hopefully for good results.

 

I'm also planning to order the bosch oil filters from BeemerBoneyard. Does anyone use Rotellas diesel oil in their bikes? There are tons of good reviews on it on other bikes but I've never had a newer bike like this and haven't researched people using it on them. The PO said he always ran amsoil.

 

Hi chopsieze,

 

Before you dig in too far you might wanna just give the bike a good look over. Make sure the fuel line quick disconnects are tight, plug wires (stick coils) are 100% pushed on.

If you have a completely failed stick coil one cylinder would be cool to the touch from not firing. Look at both throttle cables to see if one is broke or not pulling etc.......no loose battery cables.

 

Indy

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Hi chopsieze,

 

Before you dig in too far you might wanna just give the bike a good look over. Make sure the fuel line quick disconnects are tight, plug wires (stick coils) are 100% pushed on.

If you have a completely failed stick coil one cylinder would be cool to the touch from not firing. Look at both throttle cables to see if one is broke or not pulling etc.......no loose battery cables.

 

Indy

 

Hi Indy,

The 1100 does not have fuel line quick connects (unless modified).

 

Also the 1100's and early 1150 do not use stick coils.

 

chopseize, what year is your bike? caould you update your profile?

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It's a 2000, just updated my profile.

 

Was planning to drain the fuel when I replace the fuel filter to get rid of any moisture and old fuel sitting in it. I'll visually inspect any lines also. I might order new throttle cables while I'm at it... it seems stickier than I would expect. While it's nice to be able to let go of the throttle momentarily and not loose much throttle, it doesn't seem right.

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Changing the throttle cables can be quite a task!

Double check your cable routings to make sure noting it trapped or kinked.

Normally, it is discouraged to lube the cables because some lubricant can cause the cable liners to swell and also trap dirt. Maybe that has been done on yours.

However, seeing as it is already stiff, if you have checked the routing, it may be worth getting some PTFE lubricant down the cables to see if it improves things.

Bicycle lube such as the correct type of Triflo could be your choice.

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Thanks AndyS, that's all great advice. I had some things come up and been pretty busy so haven't started doing anything on it yet. The PO said the right side has been replaced but that's all I know.

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szurszewski
It's a 2000, just updated my profile.

 

Was planning to drain the fuel when I replace the fuel filter to get rid of any moisture and old fuel sitting in it. I'll visually inspect any lines also. I might order new throttle cables while I'm at it... it seems stickier than I would expect. While it's nice to be able to let go of the throttle momentarily and not loose much throttle, it doesn't seem right.

 

Good suggestions already, but just to be clear, having the throttle not snap closed when you release it is wrong. If you let go, it should close on its own right away.

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"and not loose much throttle,"

are you sure you don't have some sort of throttle lock (like a Throttlemeister)?

Andyis spot on.

 

You need a known baseline to start from before throwing parts at it.

Do your fluids/filters/valves/TB sync

battery load tested

best wishes

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The sticking throttle is probably due to the grease under the throttle tube drying out. Remove the screws from the right side switch gear (any screws that you can see on the switch gear is a candidate for being removed), and the bolt in the end of the handlebar weight. Slide the tube as far off as you can, and grease the bar(use waterproof stuff). Watch that the heated grip wire doesn't get pinched when you put the weight back on.

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  • 5 weeks later...

thanks, I haven't had anytime to do anything to the bike but it did all of the sudden start starting on the first attempt. Still doesn't like to idle (maybe it's set to idle too low). All these are great suggestions and hope to soon get a baseline like tallman said.

 

There is no cruise control on the bike so I would like to try greasing the bar and see what that does.

 

Does anyone know how to get email notifications when someone repsonds to posts or a thread you are part of?

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Chopseize wrote:

Does anyone know how to get email notifications when someone repsonds to posts or a thread you are part of?

 

 

Go to top of any page of the topic

Click on Topic Options

Then check on your email preferences:

Go to "My Stuff" in the top of page banner-

Choose "Preferences"

Go to near bottom of page and find "By default should anything added to your Watch Lists be emailed to you?" and click on "yes".

 

Hope this helps!

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I wish I was just a little less busy or you were just a little bit closer because I would love to ride over and help out. What you're describing does not sound normal at all, despite the bike's age/mileage.

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Chopsieze any update? Have you done a FULL service as described above? Unless you have we are wasting our time with suggestions.

 

Ouch mate. He said he was busy.

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TheOtherLee - thanks, I think you got me straightened out... I'll know after the next post on this thread.

 

Mark K - that would be great, I wish the same thing! Maybe someday I can ride it your way and you can hop on and just let me know what you think... hopefully I will have most the kinks worked out by then.

 

AndyS - yeah sorry, I've been real busy, you've given me great suggestions and I don't expect you or anyone to spend anymore time on me till get a baseline. I'm frustrated I haven't been able to tinker with the bike and hope 2 months hasn't already gone by since I posted (or time has become a bigger blur than I thought :) ).

 

Jake - thanks for having my back lol and here goes my little vent/rant regarding time: I had issues arise on my house that needed attention, I take care of computers at a high school and classes just started last week (talk about insanity), the city I live in passed a law to inspect all rental houses and going to inspect my rental next week (stressful, I have to look for things like painted wall outlets due to being a fire hazard). My car broke down forcing me to ride the BMW, which has been great fun actually, it's a way to "get away" but still need my car when my wife has class I have no way to haul my kids anywhere. Oh, we home school our kids so my wife has needed me to help plan. And I just got back from a short dirt bike trip I promised my oldest son. I think it will be another month or two before I'm caught up and have time to park it in my friends garage and spend a week just focusing on it.

 

Sorry, too much info but I had to get it out!

 

 

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Just a couple notes:

 

This bike does not have a choke and it does not have an enrichener. The control in question is simply a fast idle, necessary to keep a just-started cold engine running. Having it on or off does not affect starting.

 

Many Oilheads are due for a service action replacement of the throttle cables to a design that no longer makes the 90-degree turn from the handle inside a plastic cover but rather in a metal tube that's part of the cable itself. This--rather than grease--is a more likely cause of a sticky throttle, as the old design would wear a groove into the plastic.

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Good luck with it when you get to it (and do what Andy says ;) ). I spent a few years across the river at Offutt. If you waived a dinner reservation at M's Pub in my face to come help I'd be hard pressed to stay put. We have to do what we can to keep these '00 RTs on the road, good bikes they are.

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I spent a few years across the river at Offutt. If you waived a dinner reservation at M's Pub in my face to come help I'd be hard pressed to stay put. We have to do what we can to keep these '00 RTs on the road, good bikes they are.

 

I would be happy to, M's is great, my wife loves that place as well! Start planning your trip :) And funny enough, I work in Bellevue.

 

 

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  • 10 months later...

Ok, I apologize for not getting back, not trying to waste anyone's time. Life got in the way and haven't been able to work on it... I know you've all been on pins and needles waiting for results, haha. I hope all of you have been getting some good riding in :)

 

I pulled the TBs off yesterday and they were nice and carboned up. The right side air screw really bad. The left side is missing the stop screw. Hoping the hardware store will have a bolt with the same threading. Looks like I will be learning how to balance them and adjust the TPS.

 

The throttle tube is very dirty and hoping cleaning/greasing fixes it being so sticky. The cables aren't new by any stretch but I think adequate.

 

I have a question about the TBs and going to post a new thread regarding that. I know I need a few things that I hope to find locally but may need to order. I will put an end to this thread when I get the bike back running as I hate reading through these only to get to the end and have no resolution.

 

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The sticking throttle is probably due to the grease under the throttle tube drying out. Remove the screws from the right side switch gear (any screws that you can see on the switch gear is a candidate for being removed), and the bolt in the end of the handlebar weight. Slide the tube as far off as you can, and grease the bar(use waterproof stuff). Watch that the heated grip wire doesn't get pinched when you put the weight back on.

 

flars, if you see this (or anyone else) is it possible to slide the whole tube off without damaging the heater wires? It is dry and grimy under there and would like to clean it up as much as possible. Is there a how to on what and how much to grease also? I can't seem to find much info on it. Thanks!

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