2010 r1200rt final drive failure

[rchess]

I just was informed by my BMW dealer that I have need a new final drive on my 2010 r1200rt. (27,000 miles) BMW is not assisting me in any way. I'm tempted to go to ebay for a used one to avoid the $2,000 they want to charge me but I have 2 questions.

1. Will a RTP final drive work on my non-police bike?

 

2. What years can I pull from to get a final drive to fit my 2010 bike. (2009, 2008, 2007?)

 

Any non-speculative feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

Ride safe.

[duckbubbles]

After looking at the parts list, it appears that any later (pre-'14) final drive with the drain plug on the bottom would work. The RT-P housing is the same but the internal ratio is lower (higher numerically) by a little bit. I believe that even the earlier (non-drain) housing would work, but changing the oil in it is more of a pain.

 

Frank

[Ian McDermid]

Very sorry to hear that. I thought BMW had solved that issue by 2010. I find it totally unacceptable on there part. They know they have a problem but refuse to provide any help. I hope future buyers hear about this and sales numbers drop accordingly. An expensive bike with only 27000 miles and a major failure. HEY BMW. Send your quality control department to Japan for a year.

Hope you can find the parts and repair it with a minimal pain.IAN

[Paul In Australia]

do you know what internal part failed? crown bearing etc?

[rchess]

I don't know specifically what segment failed. I heard a little scrapping noise coming from the rear wheel at low speed, took it to my dealer and was told I needed a $2,000 final drive replacement. The dealer also acted as if he had never seen a FD failure. As I research it, I'm starting to think that their "gee, gosh, golly" approach to FD failures is how they have been told to react when they see it. There are plenty of used ones on ebay, I have a $600 one coming in, we will see.

[rchess]

Thanks Frank for your feedback, I have a used one arriving any day.

[jebersole]

I know some of the FD replacements being done by BMW on pre-LCs have a vent now. Does the used one you bought happen to have a vent?

 

I also have a 2010 RT. The FD was/is my biggest concern, but I'm lucky in that the previous owner purchased an extended service contract that I was able to transfer for a very small fee.

 

[Ian McDermid]

It would be great if we could somehow figure out the percentage of FD failures. I would be surprised if BMW would tell us. Of course they wouldn't. According to them there is no problem. When you look at the size of the gears compared to a small car it doesn't make sense. The bike loaded down would only be 900lbs.Not a lot of stress there. Must be an alignment problem at install. That would explain why some go for ever and some dye at such low mileage. Other than running dry on oil it just should not happen. 360000 miles no time limit warranty is what it should be.Ian

[Ian McDermid]

36,000 miles

[The Rocketman]

Just Google "bmw final drive registry".

There are a multitude of threads about it most everywhere. My R1200C oilhead final drive failed 3 times; twice made it home; once catastrophic and needed a tow home and twice after rebuilds. Finally got lucky with a low mileage one I bought from a buddy in Kansas who was parting his bike out, which has been so far, so good. Another one that failed I had rebuilt by Bruno in Ontario for about $600, and that one is in the attic as a spare.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Ian

Lots of potential causes. I haven't heard of a lot of gear issues though....mostly bearings like I had on my 1999 RT.

Bad heat lot on any of the materials.

Bad material batch on any of the materials.

Poor ball mfg.

Fretting during shipping (old Ford problem with train transport) although unlikely.

Insufficient break-in oil change interval / Overly contaminated oil due to gear mesh break-in.

Pre-load improper.

and so on

[tom collins]

anyone remember the surging issue on oilheads. it was the rider's fault until BMW decided to do the dual plugs (for reasons other than surging they will have you know). BMW riders are the most careless and inept in the entire riding universe (according to the company that makes them)

[Marty Hill]

anyone remember the surging issue on oilheads. it was the rider's fault until BMW decided to do the dual plugs (for reasons other than surging they will have you know). BMW riders are the most careless and inept in the entire riding universe (according to the company that makes them)

 

Curious, can you point me to where BMW stated that?

[rchess]

Update from about a month later. I received a used final drive from the UK to had my dealer install. 600 US dollars including shipping. Dealer installed it for about 1 hour labor. With 50 miles on the bike, it is riding rougher. It has a RtPolice FD so it is definitely peppier although And i pull higher rpms at highway speeds. Rear tire wear seems slightly off of center, I'm wondering if I should be wondering about that or if the slope of the country roads I took it down caused the off center wear. Can't say enough good things about Morton's BMW in Fredericksburg va. Great bunch and worked with me very well on this. I can't say enough bad things about BMW customer service that gave me the big F U on their obviously recurring quality problem. Oh, and the bike had 20,000 miles on it, not the 27,000 I originally stated.

Mote later if there is more to talk about.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon

 

Glad you have it operational again.

 

As for road crown causing rear tire off-center wear, sure it's possible (IF) the road crown is angled severe enough to touch the tire where it's wearing (that would be a very very sever road crown though)

 

If you want to find out what is causing the tire to wear off center then just get some help & lean the bike over until the part of the tire that is wearing is touching the ground-- Then all you have to do is figure out what is causing the bike to lean at that angle while riding it. (bet it is rider induced & not road crown or bike mechanical alignment)

 

You probably make longer faster L/H turns than right hand turns, you probably ride a bit faster & harder into L/H road curves, & my guess is you do "U" turns & turn-around's to the left a lot more than to the right.

 

 

[Deezalman]

I have no indication that my FD is failing but thought I would add a comment made by my dealer (Hermy's). They recommend changing the FD oil on the same interval as engine oil if I ride at high speeds or frequently travel with passenger and gear. Considering the number of problems with FDs, I suppose a little overkill couldn't hurt but from the sounds of it.. Oil contamination and/or breakdown may only be one of many things prompting failure of the FD. Experiences? Thoughts?

[dirtrider]

clip-- Experiences? Thoughts?

 

Afternoon Deezalman

 

My (personal) though is: that is the usual dealer talk to customers to sound important but without having a clue or expertise to back it up.

 

I have yet to see a BMW 1200 hexhead, camhead final drive fail due to contaminated gear oil. The usual hexhead/camhead final drive failure is crown bearing failure. I don't consider a leaking seal to be drive failure.

 

Seeing as the most common hexhead/camhead final drive failure is the crown bearing failing & on the 1200 hexhead/camhead the crown bearing RUNS IN IT'S OWN SEALED CHAMBER not touching the gear oil, so I find it difficult to understand how changing the gear oil at engine oil changes is any help at all.

 

But changing the gear oil at rear tire change time is not a bad idea. Removing the rear wheel is part way through the gear oil change, & the drive only holds a few ounces of gear oil, so final drive gear oil change is mostly labor.

 

As long as you have the rear wheel removed might as well change the gear oil also. That probably won't improve the final drive life but saves some extra labor by doing them both at the same time.

 

 

[Bobber]

Mine just failed this past weekend on my 2008 RT with just under 36,000 miles. I was camping with the Concours Owners Group at the Blue Ridge MC Campground in Cruso, NC. When I got up Sunday morning there were some other campers (BMW riders) standing around chewing the fat and one of them commented that there was some oil on my rear tire rim. I put it up on the center stand and checked the wheel for movement and did feel some. Well after several comments and conversations it was strongly suggested to me that I not ride it and have it trailered to the nearest dealer (Asheville), so fortunately I had a good friend who lives in Asheville come up to get me and put me up at his house till the dealer opened Tuesday. I did ride it from his house to the dealer which was less than 5 miles away. The dealer (Eurosport Asheville) was great about getting me squeezed in and fortunately also had the parts on hand. The failure was the main bearing (which as most of you know is a sealed bearing). The service manager showed it to me afterwards and told me that water got in and the resultant corrosion on the races caused the inner race to move and consequently the seal also moved which resulted in the damage and failure. The service manager said that "parts do wear out", which I can't argue with, however I believe that BMW should be capable of designing something that does not have as many early failures as they have had. Like someone mentioned earlier, just look at the Japanese bikes and notice the lack of rear drive failures. Anyhow I was very pleased with the service I received at Eurosport and would recommend them highly. They also replaced the aluminum wheel flange with a steel one under warranty. Evidently BMW found some with cracks in them and are starting a campaign to replace these. The good news for me is that is was discovered before it went catastrophic. Oh, and he confirmed the earlier statement in this thread that changing the oil in the final drive will not improve the life of this main bearing as it is sealed, however it could help the life of the other bearings and parts in there.

[Pat_Da_Geeeze_Donahue]

Here's my thoughts.

 

I've had one FD fail in my 2006 Adventure that BMW replaced under warranty.

 

Then I had one fail on my 2006 RT (replaced the GSA). Had it fixed at Asheville. It failed again less than a year later.

 

The first failed RT FD was rebuilt by the service department. The second failed RT FD was replaced with the newest design FD.

 

The failures were all shortly after I rode in deep enough water to cover the FD. (Yeah I miss my GSA now.) The newest one has a vent, a fill port and a bottom mounted drain.

 

I note that the vent isn't extended and given the water induction is caused by the sudden cooling creating a vacuum I don't think this fix will be final.

 

I also note that Touratech makes a vent extender hose that would let me run it up under the seat. I can't justify $60 or so for a length of rubber hose. I do hope to find time to make my own setup.

[dirtrider]

Here's my thoughts.

 

I've had one FD fail in my 2006 Adventure that BMW replaced under warranty.

 

Then I had one fail on my 2006 RT (replaced the GSA). Had it fixed at Asheville. It failed again less than a year later.

 

The first failed RT FD was rebuilt by the service department. The second failed RT FD was replaced with the newest design FD.

 

The failures were all shortly after I rode in deep enough water to cover the FD. (Yeah I miss my GSA now.) The newest one has a vent, a fill port and a bottom mounted drain.

 

I note that the vent isn't extended and given the water induction is caused by the sudden cooling creating a vacuum I don't think this fix will be final.

 

I also note that Touratech makes a vent extender hose that would let me run it up under the seat. I can't justify $60 or so for a length of rubber hose. I do hope to find time to make my own setup.

 

Morning Pat

 

Well it depends on what failed in your final drive. Seldom if ever do you see the BMW hexheads or camheads fail the final drive gear-set, or pinion-bearings, or R/H-spool-bearing.

 

On the other hand most hexheads & camheads fail the L/H (wheel side) crown baring. THAT bearing runs in it's own sealed chamber using it's own grease (not gear oil) so venting, or extending the vent to under the seat won't help this area as it isn't connected to the final drive top vent (the OEM vent only vents the gear chamber not the crown bearing chamber)

 

Extending the final drive vent on the BMW 1100/1150 did seem to help when riding through deep water (we used to extend those up & into the air box) as THOSE final drives ran the crown bearing in the gear oil.

_________________________

[Blind Squirrel]

I don't consider a leaking seal to be drive failure.

 

 

I just had this happen to me while on a 4K trip. Rear tire started leaking oil. When I got it to a BMW place, the oil came out milky white. The mechanic told me there is an engineering flaw with where the vent is located. It allows moisture to easily get into the wheel. The "fix" is to run a line from the vent hole up under the seat to keep the moisture from getting in. When I get home it will be the first thing I do to my bike.

[Jim VonBaden]

I don't consider a leaking seal to be drive failure.

 

 

I just had this happen to me while on a 4K trip. Rear tire started leaking oil. When I got it to a BMW place, the oil came out milky white. The mechanic told me there is an engineering flaw with where the vent is located. It allows moisture to easily get into the wheel. The "fix" is to run a line from the vent hole up under the seat to keep the moisture from getting in. When I get home it will be the first thing I do to my bike.

 

He is full of it. The vent is fine on street bikes, it is a little less fine on the GS and off road.

 

Jim

[Blind Squirrel]

I don't consider a leaking seal to be drive failure.

 

 

I just had this happen to me while on a 4K trip. Rear tire started leaking oil. When I got it to a BMW place, the oil came out milky white. The mechanic told me there is an engineering flaw with where the vent is located. It allows moisture to easily get into the wheel. The "fix" is to run a line from the vent hole up under the seat to keep the moisture from getting in. When I get home it will be the first thing I do to my bike.

 

He is full of it. The vent is fine on street bikes, it is a little less fine on the GS and off road.

 

Jim

 

What would explain the oil coming out milky? I was there when he pulled the drain plug and saw the oil come out milky.

[Jim VonBaden]

I don't consider a leaking seal to be drive failure.

 

 

I just had this happen to me while on a 4K trip. Rear tire started leaking oil. When I got it to a BMW place, the oil came out milky white. The mechanic told me there is an engineering flaw with where the vent is located. It allows moisture to easily get into the wheel. The "fix" is to run a line from the vent hole up under the seat to keep the moisture from getting in. When I get home it will be the first thing I do to my bike.

 

He is full of it. The vent is fine on street bikes, it is a little less fine on the GS and off road.

 

Jim

 

What would explain the oil coming out milky? I was there when he pulled the drain plug and saw the oil come out milky.

 

One of two things. Either you rode through water deeper than your vent, or you have redline shockproof or similar oil that naturally look milky.

 

Either way, if the vent was an issue, you would see failures all over the place from bad outer bearings, and this is not the case. Typically the big bearing fails.

 

Jim

[Steve Kolenda]

Not to confuse things but to add my 2 cents. Having been stranded with a final drive failure on a previous RT I am religious about changing the final drive fluid. I have nearly 60,000 miles on my 2011 RT and change the fluid at intervals of no more than 6,000 miles. Not looking for a debate on the value of that as it is my way of monitoring the condition of the drive. Early on I had a couple of milky changes which concerned me. I hadn't driven through any deep water but wash my bike regularly. I created a little cap to place over the vent when I wash the bike and since have not had any milky changes. I don't think it takes much water in the fluid to make it look milky.

[Blind Squirrel]

One of two things. Either you rode through water deeper than your vent, or you have redline shockproof or similar oil that naturally look milky.

 

Jim

 

That't a no to both of those. I had the final drive oil changed a week before the trip at a BMW dealer that used BMW final drive oil. Also, no deep water riding, or any water riding except riding in the rain.

 

Since it won't hurt anything to move the vent up under my seat, I will be doing the mod as soon as I get my bike back from the West coast.

 

I think I will also be changing the fluid out every 6K miles as a precaution.

[Jim VonBaden]

One of two things. Either you rode through water deeper than your vent, or you have redline shockproof or similar oil that naturally look milky.

 

Jim

 

That't a no to both of those. I had the final drive oil changed a week before the trip at a BMW dealer that used BMW final drive oil. Also, no deep water riding, or any water riding except riding in the rain.

 

Since it won't hurt anything to move the vent up under my seat, I will be doing the mod as soon as I get my bike back from the West coast.

 

I think I will also be changing the fluid out every 6K miles as a precaution.

So did you wash it or ride in the rain? Sounds like your vent cap did not do its job! Or the dealer never actually changed the oil!

 

Jim

[Blind Squirrel]

Sounds like your vent cap did not do its job!

 

Jim

 

I believe that is what I was trying to say in my original post

[rchess]

Additional update: The new final drive is leaking and get's pretty dang hot after a 45 minute ride. My bike is headed back to the dealer for a recall anyway, I guess we'll tackle this again.

 

[Dave_in_TX]

 

I just had this happen to me while on a 4K trip. Rear tire started leaking oil. When I got it to a BMW place, the oil came out milky white. The mechanic told me there is an engineering flaw with where the vent is located. It allows moisture to easily get into the wheel. The "fix" is to run a line from the vent hole up under the seat to keep the moisture from getting in. When I get home it will be the first thing I do to my bike.

 

He is full of it. The vent is fine on street bikes, it is a little less fine on the GS and off road.

 

Jim

 

What would explain the oil coming out milky? I was there when he pulled the drain plug and saw the oil come out milky.

 

One of two things. Either you rode through water deeper than your vent, or you have redline shockproof or similar oil that naturally look milky.

 

Either way, if the vent was an issue, you would see failures all over the place from bad outer bearings, and this is not the case. Typically the big bearing fails.

Jim

 

I changed the final drive oil in my 2011 RT for the 7th time (84k miles) yesterday and was surprised to see my final drive oil also come out milky. I used the same oil as last time, BMW branded 75W90 which does not originally have a milky appearance. I haven't driven through any water anywhere deep enough to even come close the the vent. I've washed the bike a couple of times but did not do anything different from other washes. Strange coincidence!