Brake failure warning light stays on

[wolds]

So I have an 07 1200RT with 42000 miles on it. Riding home from work the brake failure light came on. I have searched through posts on the subject and it appears that the ABS module is possibly at fault as a result of a motor brush hanging up. I'm ordering a GS-911 to read the codes to help pinpoint the cause but what I haven't read is anyone ohming accross the motor brushes at the connector to verify that the motor windings are open. I can tell you that the speedo is still working which rules out the rear wheel sensor and that I have visually inspected the front sensor for damage and there is none. I would also like to ohm out the front sensor and was wondering approximately how many ohm's should I be reading. Thanks for you feedback. Warren

[Bernie]

A friend found a bad sensor causing his trouble, even though the speedometer worked fine.

Both wheel sensors are the same part number, so you should be able to compare the ohms of each with each other.

Keep in mind that there is a change in brake system and wheel sensors between the early Hexheads and the 07+ versions.

[dirtrider]

MOrning Warren

 

You c-o-u-l-d ohm across the connector but that is a useless endeavor as the motor only runs when the controller tells it to.

 

Can you hear the rear pump run when you place the bike on the center stand, then with key-on, spin the rear wheel with your foot while applying braking pressure with the front hand lever????

If no workie try rapping the motor area with a rubber or rawhide mallet as you try the above key-on test again. (if the motor then works suspect stuck brushes)

 

As for sensor ohm range-- both front & rear should measure close to the same at the same temperature. (I have the appx resistance written down someplace but am no where near my shop at the moment)

[mneblett]

I'm not familiar with the 2007's bulb monitor warning display, but a question I'd like to ask is:

 

Could it be as simple as a burned out brake/tail light bulb? The 1150RT's bulb monitor lights up one of the red brake failure lights on the dash when a bulb filament breaks.

[Guest Kakugo]

I'm not familiar with the 2007's bulb monitor warning display, but a question I'd like to ask is:

 

Could it be as simple as a burned out brake/tail light bulb? The 1150RT's bulb monitor lights up one of the red brake failure lights on the dash when a bulb filament breaks.

 

On Hexhead's you get a burnt rear bulb warning. If both go out, you also get a Yellow Triangle warning.

Don't ask how I know the latter.

[wolds]

I haven't had a chance to troubleshoot the issue, but I'll listen for the pump. I'm fortunate that my wife has the same year RT as mine so I can compare sights and sounds when the ignition is switched on. Haven't had the seat off yet, can you see the pump without pulling the body panels? I like the idea of tapping the pump to dislodge a possible stuck brush.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Mark

 

The 2007 1200RT's have specific & individual "light out" indications on the dash.

[wolds]

I'll give this a shot tonight. Oh, did I mention that my wife's bike has a bad fuel strip? Whole nother issue. Her original one went bad so I had it replaced last fall under the new extended warranty. Got the bike back and put one tank of gas through it. Filled it up and it failed right there at the gas station.

 

MOrning Warren

 

You c-o-u-l-d ohm across the connector but that is a useless endeavor as the motor only runs when the controller tells it to.

 

Can you hear the rear pump run when you place the bike on the center stand, then with key-on, spin the rear wheel with your foot while applying braking pressure with the front hand lever????

If no workie try rapping the motor area with a rubber or rawhide mallet as you try the above key-on test again. (if the motor then works suspect stuck brushes)

 

As for sensor ohm range-- both front & rear should measure close to the same at the same temperature. (I have the appx resistance written down someplace but am no where near my shop at the moment)

[Kritou]

This may have no relevance to the OP's issue but I offer it up for comment

 

Had the wheels off and sprayied under the tank with ACF50 on my '07 1200RT and now have the brake failure warning

 

Dignostics show green for the modulator power but two unclearable red warnings. I don't recall the terminology of these two faults

 

It has been suggested that I was a bit heavy handed when prising apart the front pads for refitting and may have have caused back pressure to overcentre the diaphragms - I obviously know little about the workings of the pump!

 

Brakes work fine and sensors/lines look OK

[kellenbenz]

I had this on my 2008 Rt and it actually was the module. I isolated the problem by tapping on the module and it came back to life for a short term.

 

Keep in mind that Module Masters can rebuild it with a 5 year warranty for about $250. They did mine and a year later all is still working great.

 

http://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/wp-content/plugins/WooCommerce-car-filter/include/product_filter.php?make=87&model=1094&syear=7363

 

 

Ron

[wolds]

I'll keep Module Masters in mind although the DYI method looks pretty straight forward.

 

I had this on my 2008 Rt and it actually was the module. I isolated the problem by tapping on the module and it came back to life for a short term.

 

Keep in mind that Module Masters can rebuild it with a 5 year warranty for about $250. They did mine and a year later all is still working great.

 

http://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/wp-content/plugins/WooCommerce-car-filter/include/product_filter.php?make=87&model=1094&syear=7363

 

 

Ron

[dirtrider]

I'll keep Module Masters in mind although the DYI method looks pretty straight forward.

 

 

Afternoon wolds

 

Yes, if it just a hanging motor brush (usually is) that isn't rocket science & pretty straight forward if you have a bit of mechanical ability.

[Ponch]

It also could be an ABS cable that touched the rotor and wore through. I had that happen before I changed the tires. They didn't assemble it right and the cable worse halfway through on a 4200 mile trip. I taped it and retied it with a tie wrap which temporarily fixed it and it was replaced under warranty.

[wolds]

So I thought I'd post my findings so far. I recieved the GS 911 last week and was able to read ABS codes. There were three. 24052, electrical under voltage. 24048, pump motor defective. 24049, power supply to pump motor faulty. All three faults were not present when I checked and so I cleared them. Changed the battery in the bike and took an extended ride at which time the warning light came on again. This time I was able to read the codes with the fault present and only found the two directly related to the module. The system under-voltage error was not present. With the engine running I went into the test section of the ABS and ran all five (I believe) tests. After running these tests which included the motor test I went back into the error codes and discovered that the error codes were no longer active. I cleared the not-present codes and took the bike out again for another extended ride and no error codes were found. My theory is that the motor was and is the issue and by running it during the test continuity through the brushes/armature was re-established. My question is, when the bikes ignition is turned on does the bikes system actually spin the motor or does it only look for continuity through the motor brushes/armature. Any thoughts?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon wolds

 

As far as I know the pump only runs with all front brake lever usage (vehicle moving/or after a certain apply pressure point), with rear brake pedal usage (only) while IN ABS mode, & in front brake lever usage while IN ABS mode.

 

You can put the bike on center stand, then with key on (engine not running) lightly apply front brake lever. Then do the same while spinning the rear wheel with your foot (rear servo motor run should be obvious)

 

[wolds]

DR, thanks for the response. So if I understand you correctly the way the system works is if you only brake using the front brake lever the pump module comes on to modulate the amount of rear brake applied. Is that correct? So if the rider is used to applying rear brake (old school) then the module would not actuate. Is my reasoning correct?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon wolds

 

The rear brake apply is an either/or system. Whatever end applies the most pressure shuts a crossover valve then that end takes over.

 

ie, you start your stopping from 50 mph & use only the front brake lever (moderate stopping pressure), the rear brake is operated from the front lever through the servo motor, lets say you are applying 100 psi to the rear brake. You now step on the rear brake pedal (keeping same pressure on front lever) & apply 75 psi to the rear brake. At this point the rear brake pressure is ONLY pushing on the crossover valve & the front is doing all the rear brake stopping.

 

You now push harder on the rear brake pedal & increase the rear pedal braking pressure to 150 psi, at this point the crossover valve opens to the rear pedal input (you can actually feel that in the brake pedal) & the rear pedal takes over rear braking & front is now pushing against the crossover valve. (basically what ever end applies the most pressure on the rear system leads the dance on the rear brake)

 

 

The rear servo motor is needed to allow front lever pressure to get to the rear brake but keep the rear pedal isolated from the front system.

 

The servo motor is also used for rear brake ABS & front accumulator fluid make-up in a prolonged ABS stop.

[wolds]

OK, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[wolds]

Just following up on this thread that I started. I sent the module out to Module Masters for a motor rebuild and promptly had it back in my hands in two weeks ($300.00 total with a five year warranty). What GREAT service. Installed ABS module, blead system and went for a test ride. Just a note though. I didn't run the module bleed test and I did get a 23993 pressure monitoring, rear, secondary circuit warning. After running the bleed test and bleeding the system one more time all was good.

[dirtrider]

Just a note though. I didn't run the module bleed test and I did get a 23993 pressure monitoring, rear, secondary circuit warning. After running the bleed test and bleeding the system one more time all was good.

 

Afternoon wolds

 

 

Most won't pass the GS-911 bleed test or it can take many tries to get them to finally pass. (nothing to worry about)

[wolds]

I must have got lucky. Cleared the code after running the test and it hasn't popped back up.

[CWB-58]

I have a 2007 R1200RT that had same failure at 14000 miles last year 8/2014. I took apart the bike down to the ABS unit and removed it. The issue was a stuck brush in that little DC motor. I began the process of dismantling the module to get to the brushes. One issue stood in my way, a bearing on the motor shaft would not budge blocking me from the motor brush holder. I called Module master and fessed up as to what I had done and asked for help. They gladly helped me even though I had attempted the repairs myself. I had to pay an additional $100.00 or $350 but got the same 5 year warranty. The repair required a "core" from module master. I have my bike back together and had ridden 500 miles without issue. The fault cleared on the first ride. I was intimidated at first to try and fix this issue. The bike comes apart very easy even has quick disconnects on the gas tank lines. It was a pleasant experience taking apart and re-assembling. I had no DVD or help. The process was easy with the abilities I had, a back yard mechanic.