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New Member, new bike new problem?


Andrew Harmsworth

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Andrew Harmsworth

Hi All,

 

Recently registered, and have been reading up about my latest potential purchase a 2001 1150RT with 29k miles on it.

Bit about me, I have recently got back into biking after 20 years off, 1 wife and 3 children later I bought a wreck of a Honda CBR600 and did a full nut and bolt restoration over last winter.

I have been using the CBR on sunny days for my commute to work, 70 miles of mainly motorway and have already had enough of the lack of comfort and a power band sitting between 7k and 13k RPM, very fast but not exactly my style. This lead me to look at BM’s, having run there cars felt it was the ‘quality’ brand that would deliver what I wanted now, certainly the large Oilhead with torque and comfort to match looked to hit the mark so I started looking out t for 1150RT in budget which I found last weekend.

Looking across the forum I hope I am reading too much into the ‘odd few’ faults and incorrectly assuming that it may not have been the wise decision I believed I was making. While difficult it’s not too late to walk away but thought I would put it out there to see if I am getting unduly worried.

Two reasons I doubt myself, firstly surging, which I believe can be minimised with tuning and possibly a black box that ups the mixture, OK can handle that, Secondly Gearbox splines stripping, which I am less sure about. Should I be worried?

The bike does not have a full service history however it has been sold as one that has been taken care of by its owners with DIY servicing.

Going to see and collect the bike tomorrow, so my intentions before putting the green stuff down other than std 2nd hand bike checks are to specifically look for,

ABS function & break lights,

Wheel Bearings and rear drive

Break line age and type

Check the frequency of the ABS fluid flush

Check id the Clutch slave cylinder has been replaced

Is there anything else I should specifically check?

Many thanks in anticipation

Andrew

 

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Just recently there have been two new members that must be wishing they'd asked the same questions before they bought an early 1150. From all I've read there is no way I would ever recommend one of these bikes to anyone. There are just too many good years and good deals on RT's of other years to bother with a 2001/2002. Depending on my budget I'd be looking at an 1100 from '99-2000 or a 1200 (preferably 2007+).

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roger 04 rt

I'm not an expert on the 2001 but there are a couple things that are mission critical:

 

--state of the splines, a good approximation can be made by pulling the starter, pulling in the clutch, and observing how much the clutch disk can move without the transmission input shaft moving. It takes about an hour total to make the check.

 

--in-tank hoses. Many, not all though, fail leaving the rider standed. It's $75 or so in parts to refresh them. Plan to test right after you buy or replace.

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Andrew,

 

Welcome to BMWST.

 

You buying from a BMW dealer? or other dealer> or private party?

If a BMW dealer they should be familiar with these typical problems, just aask them about

- clutch splines

- whizzy brakes

- surging

maybe they can tell you what they have checked.

 

If a private person, I suppose they could claim ignorance, or maybe tell you what they know.

 

I suppose I qualify as one of the two recent members that could have learnt more before getting an 02 RT.

(actually I think the count is up to four since my adventure in mid February.)

 

THe best thing I can say is, well, I quess I found out why I got it for the price I did.

 

Dave

 

 

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Andrew Harmsworth

Thanks for the reply’s,

 

Going to check out the bike tonight, looks like the spline issue is the real blind gotcha, and checking relative difficult. I love to have the folding to get a newer model but budget is limited.

Does anyone know did BM change something after 2002 to improve reliability?

 

 

relativle diffacult

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.

.

Does anyone know did BM change something after 2002 to improve reliability?

 

I am not anywhere near an authority on this. Just a guy that got an 02 RT in November and have been "reading up" on thses issues here and elsewhere. I can share my present understanding.

 

Did BMW do anything to improve reliability after 2002...?

- Clutch Spline.

Some folks says, Yes. Only based on folks observations, seems that early 02 had more failures than 03, and 04. SOme say it was a machining problem (causing missalignmnet) that seems to have been improved at some point.

But some folks say there were many more 02 than there were others, and have had failures on 03 & 04s also. And the problem is related to the clutch spline not fully engaging on the xmission spline, which was not changed until the 1200s in 05.

Again, I am not the best authority on this. My understanding is that BMW never made any statement about this problem.

- Surging. Not really. Not until 04 with the twin spark.

- Wizzy Brakes. Improved the "grabby" somehow in 03. But still subject to expensive repair (or removal) if fail. But can be mostly avoided if keep fresh fluid.

 

Again, I am not the best authority on this.

 

I say, these are why you can see some 02 RTs for sale for less than, say, a 1999.

 

 

.

 

 

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Thanks for the reply’s,

 

Going to check out the bike tonight, looks like the spline issue is the real blind gotcha, and checking relative difficult. I love to have the folding to get a newer model but budget is limited.

Does anyone know did BM change something after 2002 to improve reliability?

 

 

relativle diffacult

 

Ya know, in my opinion you'd be better off shopping for an older model, especially if money is an issue (and it's always an issue, lol). The R1100RT from 1997-2000 is just about bulletproof. It had a different transmission, so no spline issues. It also didn't have the servo brakes, so no issues there. You get 99% of the performance of the 1150, plus a much more reliable machine. And cheaper too.

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+1 on that. IMHO the best BMWs to buy are always the last of the model line, never the first (unless you're happy helping BMW with development FOC).

 

The post 1996 1100 oilheads are pretty well sorted, though none is without potential problems.

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TripleThreat

Based on my own budget limitations, I had originally set my mind on an '05 to get the 1200 and the ESA Rear suspension. However, after some diligent research, I read about problems with early runs of each model and instead, opted for a 2004 R1150RT. I picked it up last Monday, March 16th. I'm very early in the ownership of the bike, having only put on about 500 miles at this point, but all things appear to be solid.

 

Oil change, brake flush, spline lube, tupperware removal to allow for farkle installation are all in the near future, so I may learn things are not as they seem. However, based on what I had read, I decided that the last run of a specific model tends to have the fewest mechanical gremlins and opted to go that route for initial piece of mind.

 

Keep in mind that online forum posts drastically overrepresent problems for any vehicle. Most people join or post on forums looking for technical information about repairs and maintenance items while trying to avoid the high cost of dealer service. As a result, the postings you see are those made by people experiencing problems and looking for solutions, coupled with responses made by people who have already encountered the same, or know someone who has.

 

This information can tend to give you insight into which model years might have the greatest representation of failures, but you also have to consider that the 2001/2002 model runs of the RT saw more sales than other years. That means that one failure of a 2001/2002 is a significantly smaller proportion of total model year production than one failure of a 2003/2004. Or stated another way, for every failure of a 2001/2002 there are more trouble free bikes still on the road than a similar comparison of 2003/2004 bikes.

 

Buying any used vehicle without a warranty is a crap shoot and the best you can do is try to minimize risk. If money is a big factor, that provides more incentive to purchase a bike that has a better reputation for reliability since money will not be available to make repairs if something fails.

 

Based on what I know, I'd opt for the 1999-2000 or a 2004.

 

Good luck!

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Ya know, in my opinion you'd be better off shopping for an older model, especially if money is an issue (and it's always an issue, lol). The R1100RT from 1997-2000 is just about bulletproof. It had a different transmission, so no spline issues. It also didn't have the servo brakes, so no issues there. You get 99% of the performance of the 1150, plus a much more reliable machine. And cheaper too.

 

Maybe, but try finding a '98 without 85k+ miles. They're out there, but I've seen many more lower mileage '03-'04s for obvious reasons.

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Maybe, but try finding a '98 without 85k+ miles. They're out there, but I've seen may more lower mileage '03-'04s for obvious reasons.

 

At least in the NW I see adds like this all the time: 99 RT

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At least in the NW I see adds like this all the time: 99 RT

 

No doubt they are out there. Actually, someone needs to buy that one.

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Yup, they're out there all right. Three years ago I bought a '93 R1100RSL that had honest to god 1 mile on the odometer. The '93 RS was the first oilhead and imo the best. Guess there were some trans problems with this bike and many were replaced on warrantee. If my trans goes I'll replace it with a smile on my face I like this bike so much.

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Hi All,

 

Recently registered, and have been reading up about my latest potential purchase a 2001 1150RT with 29k miles on it......

 

To my knowledge a 2001 model would be an 1100, the 1150 didnt start until 2002. The exception to that is Canadian/european models were a year ahead of US models, so its possible its an 2001 1150. OP doesnt list location so Im just guessing.

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.

 

At least in the NW I see adds like this all the time: 99 RT

 

 

99 RT with 33k miles, listed for $4000.

 

Last November I would see something like that, and say "gee, I can get this other 02 with about same miles for about same price or little more."

 

Now I know why.

 

.

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Ya know, in my opinion you'd be better off shopping for an older model, especially if money is an issue (and it's always an issue, lol). The R1100RT from 1997-2000 is just about bulletproof. It had a different transmission, so no spline issues. It also didn't have the servo brakes, so no issues there. You get 99% of the performance of the 1150, plus a much more reliable machine. And cheaper too.

 

Maybe, but try finding a '98 without 85k+ miles. They're out there, but I've seen many more lower mileage '03-'04s for obvious reasons.

 

I'd take a 98 with 85K over a 2002 with 30K. All day long.

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I just bought a 2002 R1150RT. I got a bit ripped off on the price of mine; however, here is my thought on it- though I am no expert.

 

There seems to be three main areas of concern that I will list in my personal order of severity.

 

1) Clutch/transmission splines on these bikes *can* be trashed. My bike is 13 years old with just over 50k miles on it. It didn't have any signs of the spline issue but when I tore it apart the splines were on their last leg. Im replacing the whole clutch assembly and transmission input shaft. Im also measuring for transmission misalignment and if it is present Im going to install offset dowels. -I will be posting my findings on the readings and offset dowels when I get them.

 

2) FInal drive bearing disintegrating. Mine was fine, I'm replacing it anyway because I tore it apart for an inspection and at that point why not. Im also going to verify the preload.

 

3) Clutch slave cylinder failure contaminating the clutch. Mine had failed but it wasn't horrible. It had started to get fluid into the clutch assembly, but I didn't notice any slipping yet. Drill a weep hole and replace it and it should be good for a lot longer and if it does fail it wont kill your clutch.

 

4) A secret 4th concern, the ABS module. if it goes bad is big bucks [~$2200] or you simply convert the bike to non ABS standard brakes.... Im not going to worry about that, Ill cross that bridge if it comes.

 

Remember, These bikes are 13 years old now and you will have wear parts start to fail. Im doing a relatively major refresh on my bike with about 1,000 dollars in parts. Is the bike worth it? As an investment, absolutely not.

 

My reasoning for putting the money in the bike is this:

I enjoy working on the bike. Its easy to work on and in doing so I know it inside and out. For a 13 year old bike 1,000 bucks in parts isn't unreasonable for a major refresh. Its cosmetically in very nice shape and I like the looks. Im doing ALL the work myself so there is no labor.

 

Im hoping after my refresh I have a relatively bulletproof bike- Ill try to keep the board apprised of my results!

 

Bottom line, if you get the bike for a good price, are going to do the work yourself, and realize you may be giving it a major refresh to get it up to snuff, Id say go for it.

 

If any of those don't apply, or you want a turn-key no worries bike; Id probably look elsewhere.

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1) Clutch/transmission splines on these bikes *can* be trashed. ...Im replacing the whole clutch assembly and transmission input shaft. Im also measuring for transmission misalignment and if it is present Im going to install offset dowels. -I will be posting my findings on the readings and offset dowels when I get them.

 

 

Why not contact cele0001. He has a clutch hub conversion that may well make the whole alignment issue become more bearable.

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Andrew Harmsworth

Well, Thank you all for the replies, I did go and see the bike last night and have given the splines as much of a ‘look see’ as I could after pulling the starter Motor.

It looked good, with no discernible ware, so I took the plunge, mainly because I got the bike at a fair price for low miles. I figure I will do some light maintenance to go through the summer and then a strip down over the winter to give it a more thorough going over. Mileage checks out.

Interesting to see that in the US bikes did not start until 2002, this one was defiantly a 2001

Only done 30 miles so far but must say it is night and day to the old CBR, trip to work today, could not feel the cold, wind and did not feel like a hunchback on arrival.

All good so far.

 

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I'd take a 98 with 85K over a 2002 with 30K. All day long.

 

The '02s have certainly taken a beating around here, lately.

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Why not contact cele0001. He has a clutch hub conversion that may well make the whole alignment issue become more bearable.

 

I may very well contact him and install the hub spacer in addition to checking the misalignment. If I have the ability to fix the issue for good I would much rather have no issue at all than one that is simply more bearable.

 

Im also curious to see what kind of misalignment I find, as my splines were merely badly worn [and not yet failed] at 50k. I may find no/minor alignment issues. perhaps it will be found to me more of a lack of lube issue? I plan to post my results in a new thread here!

 

I think the ideal solution though would be to correct any misalignment AND have the clutch spacer as to engage all the spline area AND make sure the splines are properly lubed. I'm of the camp there may not be one sole factor that leads to splines wearing prematurely but a perfect combination of issues.

 

Congrats on the new bike Harmsworth. I hope you enjoy it! Despite all the work Im doing [partly because I think Im a little OCD] I'm loving mine. Good luck on the teardown this winter and if you have any questions Ive found these forums to contain just about any info you could possibly need.

 

Now we need some pics!

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Well, Thank you all for the replies, I did go and see the bike last night and have given the splines as much of a ‘look see’ as I could after pulling the starter Motor.

It looked good, with no discernible ware, so I took the plunge, mainly because I got the bike at a fair price for low miles. I figure I will do some light maintenance to go through the summer and then a strip down over the winter to give it a more thorough going over. Mileage checks out.

Interesting to see that in the US bikes did not start until 2002, this one was defiantly a 2001

Only done 30 miles so far but must say it is night and day to the old CBR, trip to work today, could not feel the cold, wind and did not feel like a hunchback on arrival.

All good so far.

 

A H ,

 

Congratulations.

Exciting.

I will encourage you in the same manner that other folks encouraged me.

You will enjoy it, and most likely have a long history of riding experience with it.

 

And, oh, yeah, you can ride a lot further and a lot longer and in colder weather that you ol' UJM. (especially if it was unfaired).

 

By the way, where in general are you located...?

 

I too, would like to better understand this 01 / 02 1150 situation. I gather that it actually considered an 02 model, just that they started building them so early that it overlapped other models 01s.

 

Post some pictures and we can share your excitement further.

 

.

 

 

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I'd take a 98 with 85K over a 2002 with 30K. All day long.

 

The '02s have certainly taken a beating around here, lately.

 

Yes, and 3 yrs ago i bought my 02 with 166k on the clock, although THAT was a little scary I don't think I'd buy a low mile 02 now.

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I'd take a 98 with 85K over a 2002 with 30K. All day long.

 

The '02s have certainly taken a beating around here, lately.

 

Yes, and 3 yrs ago i bought my 02 with 166k on the clock, although THAT was a little scary I don't think I'd buy a low mile 02 now.

 

As I understand it, there are plenty of '02s without spline failures or impending spline failures. Lately, that fact may have been lost here and on other sites. I guess my point is that they are not all ticking time bombs.

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Andrew Harmsworth

Thanks Redman, Greiffster spent some time checking flu des etc, running low on garage time credits with the wife though. I am based in the uk, bristol area. Just trying to work out how to imbed an image

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  • 2 weeks later...
Ok think this is a link to the bike from photo bucket if it does not work pls let me know

 

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn24/aharmsworth1/Bike/image.jpg1_zpschgt6wgm.jpg

 

 

Yup and in your case with photobucket, you can just paste in the "img" link.....

 

Nice ride...love the sheep.

 

image.jpg1_zpschgt6wgm.jpg

 

Well there's the problem right there! He bought a silver RT instead of a night black RT. Everyone knows the '02 silver RT's were most problematic. :P

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Well there's the problem right there! He bought a silver RT instead of a night black RT. Everyone knows the '02 silver RT's were most problematic. :P

 

Andrew's got him an '01. Those are bulletproof. :thumbsup:

Plus he bought it in 2015, which is the year of the sheep. That's a good omen. ;)

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Well there's the problem right there! He bought a silver RT instead of a night black RT. Everyone knows the '02 silver RT's were most problematic. :P

 

Andrew's got him an '01. Those are bulletproof. :thumbsup:

Plus he bought it in 2015, which is the year of the sheep. That's a good omen. ;)

 

Bike color arguments, er, discussions are fun. Please don't spoil my fun Greiffster.

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