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U-Tube in tank


Redman

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Have seen several postings where folks have mentioned about split U-Tube in the tank.

May look good, but can split and bike not start. Have to disassemble lots to get at, so should replace at, say 40K if have tank off for anyother reason.

 

 

 

 

This?

Hose.

 

This genuine part fits your 2002 BMW R1150RT .

Stock Code 16142325808 ; 16141341235

Manufacturer BMW

Categories Fuel System > Delivery, control units, fuel pump; Maintenance

Assemblies Fuel PUMP/FILTER; Fuel PUMP/FUEL filter

linky to catalog page

 

And, I now have tank off for other reason -ahem.

So looking into this, filter too.

 

.

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Afternoon Redman

 

Lots of factors working here such as-- additives in the fuel, fuel operating temperature, pump running time per mile traveled, bike storage/old fuel, etc.

 

A bike could go 15 years & only have 10K miles (you want to change those hoses well before 40K)

 

Or a bike could go 50K in a year & a half (no need to change that one at 40K.

 

Good rule of thumb is to change ALL in-tank hoses on a just-acquired 1100 or 1150 used BMW bike that is over 4 years old as you have no history of what was or wasn't done, or how it was treated.

 

Once you have all new hoses then maybe every 4-5 years or so on the high pressure in-tank hoses.

 

 

 

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Afternoon Redman

 

Lots of factors working here such as-- additives in the fuel, fuel operating temperature, pump running time per mile traveled, bike storage/old fuel, etc.

 

A bike could go 15 years & only have 10K miles (you want to change those hoses well before 40K)

 

Or a bike could go 50K in a year & a half (no need to change that one at 40K.

 

Good rule of thumb is to change ALL in-tank hoses on a just-acquired 1100 or 1150 used BMW bike that is over 4 years old as you have no history of what was or wasn't done, or how it was treated.

 

Once you have all new hoses then maybe every 4-5 years or so on the high pressure in-tank hoses.

 

 

 

DR, Thanks for response.

 

Yep, 46K, new to me, have service records of last 8 years, 10 K.

No tune up type maintantance.

 

I am asking more if this is the part they have been talking about.

 

The part number I found :

This genuine part fits your 2002 BMW R1150RT .

Stock Code 16142325808

 

Is that U-tube looking #2 in parts fische.

 

You mention "all in tank tubing" and "high pressure lines".

 

Ah....

Might that be the part #6..?

Of which is no part number listed.

Maybe that is more generic stock material.

 

Dave

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Thanks DR,

 

I imagine you have such diagram handy for when ignoramus like me happens along. Perhaps if my searching was better I would have found it posted elsewhere.

Thanks again.

 

I had told mechanic I wanted the U-tube replaced since the tank was already out, and I have heard of these being a likely problem.

His estimate listed the part number that is that u-tube and also listed 6 hose clamps for this. But not other hose numbers. Maybe going to use stock-bulk stuff. I will ask inquire.

 

Your diagram says "replace these 3" and points to two little straight pieces on left and the one u-tube on the right.

What should I think about that it looks like there is a 3rd straight tube on the left....?

 

The second diagram... are those drain tubes...?

 

 

<< Will be back later. Have to go shovel snow off roof.>>

<< Did I mention that my visit to San Diego was great? >>

<< well, except for.... ah, ..... >>

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Afternoon Dave

 

Only 2 hoses on the left (pump out) & (filter in)

 

The other hoses shown are the tank vent & tank cap ring drain (those 2 hoses are very difficult to source from anywhere but BMW.

 

Remember ALL hoses that are inside tank must but SUBMERSABLE fuel hose (fuel proof on BOTH inside & outside) the high pressure hoses must be submersible high pressure fuel injection.

 

Unless you really know your hose material then buy the hoses & clamps from BMW (or maybe Beemer Boneyard)- (incorrect hose will get you a walk home or possibly a garage full of raw gasoline)

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Thanks DR,

 

I had told mechanic I wanted the U-tube replaced since the tank was already out, and I have heard of these being a likely problem.

His estimate listed the part number that is that u-tube and also listed 6 hose clamps for this. But not other hose numbers. Maybe going to use stock-bulk stuff. I will ask inquire.

 

Your diagram says "replace these 3" and points to two little straight pieces on left and the one u-tube on the right.

What should I think about that it looks like there is a 3rd straight tube on the left....?

 

The second diagram... are those drain tubes...?

The two straight short hose sections on the left are cut from a BMW hose part that is sold in a 1 meter length. I don't have the part # handy but it is a submersible high pressure hose. Your BMW tech will probably be putting in new oeteker clamps. They are the right OEM part but they are a bit of a pain if you are doing a fuel filter replacement on your own later on. Beemer Boneyard sells high pressure fuel hose clamps that can be removed later and retightened. You might ask if they'll do your job with those instead.

 

Anecdotal data point. At 12 years and 105,000 miles I replaced those hose pieces and the U-hose in my tank. They were all still intact and pliable. Gas in my tank doesn't sit unused for any long period of time and I try very hard to use non-ethanol gas, but that's only been for the last few years. If your gas is always filled with fresh gas I wouldn't get overly concerned about the in tank hoses at the 4-5 year mark.

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This is the tool for Oetiker clamps--it isn't very expensive and is used for BOTH installation and removal. By design Oetiker clamps install at the required tightness/torque--with screw-type clamps, who knows?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Oetiker-14100117-Narrow-Jaw-Pincers/dp/B008L48A86/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1425215380&sr=8-8&keywords=oetiker+pliers

 

BTW, I currently have some parts collected to change the fuel filter on my R1100S--thanks to Dirtrider's diagram, I'll need a few more to do the job right. Bike purchased used and status of these items is unknown so far.

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gmcjetpilot

Well I went a different way. Looks like it will work well.

 

FilterampPump3_zpsetvllcik.jpg

 

FilterampPump2_zpsrolvgvie.jpg

 

FilterampPump1_zps7vbijqck.jpg

 

The hose is SAE J10R10 fuel line made to be submerged. The stainless steel U was from ebay. I had to cut it down, as the barbs were too long. Fuel pump is in temporarily with a short piece. I have to re-wire it. The wire insulation was badly cracked from 10 years of abuse and ethanol.

 

Ubracket_zpsolr8gmqi.jpg

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Since there are two rubber-line stubs connecting the metal U section, I don't see how using the metal section would necessarily be more reliable, in fact it adds two unnecessary hose clamps (which are the most common source of problems.)

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nice work pilot,

 

thinking it would be awesome to have flared fittings on the filter (a different filter) & flare fittings brazed on the pump flange tubes.

one of my euro flexible tubes cracked at the clamp, but at the time I'd removed it a few times during the crap-gas event last year.

 

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mythreesons

Hey DR,

I have to respectfully disagree with using submersible hoses on the outside. Last year I replaced all my hoses on my '96 RT and installed submersible on both the inside as well as the outside as per recommendations from my local BMW dealer. I recently had the plastic off to replace a weeping head gasket and was shocked to see the condition of my year-old hoses: thoroughly dry rotted and cracked. The originals lasted 18 years. I went back to the dealer and spent the big bucks on original form-fit outside hoses.

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Hey DR,

I have to respectfully disagree with using submersible hoses on the outside. Last year I replaced all my hoses on my '96 RT and installed submersible on both the inside as well as the outside as per recommendations from my local BMW dealer. I recently had the plastic off to replace a weeping head gasket and was shocked to see the condition of my year-old hoses: thoroughly dry rotted and cracked. The originals lasted 18 years. I went back to the dealer and spent the big bucks on original form-fit outside hoses.

 

Hey David

 

I don't know who you are disagreeing with but I never advocated using submersible hose on the OUTSIDE of the tank.

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DR has made the point before that the hoses used on the inside of the tank have to be rated for use with gasoline, both on the inside and outside of those hoses, which might be where the confusion has come in.

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I did verify with the shop that they are replacing the u-tube and the other high pressure tubes IN the tank that can fail. WHich is what I asked them to do, to "replace that U-Tube and other high pressure tubes in the tank that can fail, since we already have the tank off".

 

And in that discussion, one time, they said something about tubes UNDER the tank. ANd I just thought he misspoke, since we were talking about tubes IN the tank.

 

Then I see these comments:

 

....

The other hoses shown are the tank vent & tank cap ring drain (those 2 hoses are very difficult to source from anywhere but BMW......

 

 

.....

.................I went back to the dealer and spent the big bucks on original form-fit outside hoses.

 

Ah...

Er...

Um......

.

.

 

How big a buck is this.....?

 

(I tried looking them up, but didnt get too far.)

 

 

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163843.jpg

 

Now finding it / them.

 

 

 

 

HOSE RUNNING METER.

This genuine part fits your 2002 BMW R1150RT .

5X10

Stock Code 13532325737

Manufacturer BMW

Categories Fuel System > Fuel container with filler pipe; Fuel System > Ventilation, emissions monitoring; Maintenance

Assemblies Fuel tank; Fuel tank cap; Fuel VENTILATION/ATTACHING parts

 

 

 

$22 each.

 

ah....

but, it says "running meter", so that seems like a bulk stock, not the custom form bent/fit.

 

A L L C O N F U S E D.

 

 

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I did verify with the shop that they are replacing the u-tube and the other high pressure tubes IN the tank that can fail. WHich is what I asked them to do, to "replace that U-Tube and other high pressure tubes in the tank that can fail, since we already have the tank off".

 

And in that discussion, one time, they said something about tubes UNDER the tank. ANd I just thought he misspoke, since we were talking about tubes IN the tank.

 

Then I see these comments:

 

....

The other hoses shown are the tank vent & tank cap ring drain (those 2 hoses are very difficult to source from anywhere but BMW......

 

 

.....

.................I went back to the dealer and spent the big bucks on original form-fit outside hoses.

 

Ah...

Er...

Um......

whine....

 

How big a buck is this.....?

 

(I tried looking them up, but didnt get too far.)

 

 

Afternoon Redman

 

That inside the tank submersible vent & drain hose is 5mm I.D. hose so is difficult to source in original form.

 

It comes in 1 meter lengths @$23.00 per meter-- you will ned 2 meters @ $46.00.

 

 

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DR,

 

Ah

 

QUOTE

That inside the tank submersible vent & drain hose is 5mm I.D. hose so is difficult to source in original form.

It comes in 1 meter length......

END QUOTE

 

Ah, the vent and drain are IN the tank. Ok, now I see that.

 

BUt would not be considered the high pressure.

 

 

.

 

(Some time, I am going to conduct a test... just to see if there is ANY time of day the you don't respond in about 10 minutes or less.)

 

.

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mythreesons

Sorry DR - I read your post a little too fast. I simply saw the "both inside and outside" statement and didn't realize you were talking about the "inside and outside" of the hose- silly me. To the op - the cost of those outside-the-tank hoses was $97.00 for the pair.

 

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Morning Redman

 

 

 

Ah, the vent and drain are IN the tank. Ok, now I see that.

 

But would not be considered the high pressure.--- No, neither are high pressure but if either leak due to age or degradation then you could end up with a garage full of flammable gasoline, or water in the fuel tank.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Montana, thats what i used 2 yrs ago, about to do it again + vent hoses in prep for a trip up your way.

and while troubleshooting some fuel issues last year one of the clamps caused a crack in the hose and i installed the spare.

Also, i discovered evidence of pump sock deterioration so i replaced that too. Took the orig sock to NAPA & found one that works.

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MontanaBud, I also used the cut down Boneyard flex hose and found the same problem so I used a zip tie looped around the flex hose and pulled the loop together tighter.

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I considered using a zip tie, but aren't we again introducing an element that isn't designed to stand up to submersion in fuel and other additives? Plus, bringing the top and bottom of the flex hose closer together will definitely cause it to kink, even more than is shown in my first pic.

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I don't remember it interfering with the float? I know it bumps up against the strainer, which didn't seem like a problem to me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

If you want to eliminate the u-hose splitting issue once and for all, while perhaps relocating the filter outside the tank, I've found that using standard steel brake line bent using a tubing bender (although in my case I used the speedo cable from a previous speedometer failure, which incidentally slides right into a standard brake/fuel line and can be used as a tubing bender)

20150406_202240.jpg

Sizing the steel brake line hose. Once sized, cut it with a hacksaw and lightly sand out the burrs. Make sure you also clean the pipe completely, as you don't want small particles of metal in your lines.

 

Bend the tube so it does not interfere with the float, and replaces the length lost to where the fuel filter would be.

20150406_215316.jpg

Moving the filter outside the tank:

 

20150407_000038.jpg

I picked up some brake/fuel line ($10) and bent it, and replaced the filter and all the hoses with Gates submersible hose. Moving the fuel filter outside the tank proved pretty easy with a few more 180 degree brake line U-hose bends, one from the pump routes outside the tank, along the side of the transmission, and then makes a 180 bend as shown back towards the throttle body, then make a 160 degree bend up towards the pressure regulator which is hidden in this photo by the throttle body. I can take better photos if you're interested.

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