Looking at K1200 GT

[Jimbo09]

Greetings,

Long time ST1300 owner and looked at a 2007 K1200 GT today, so a couple questions.

 

Turned on ignition and "brake failure" light flashes. Is this normal?

 

When I started engine, it began with a horrendous grinding noise (I mean life-size-coffee-grinder-trying-to-grind-unroasted-beans kinda noise). It stopped as soon as the engine began fully idling, but it was startling. I may be a little spoiled by the ST, but is this normal or a concern?

 

It's a lovely bike, and though I'm "not looking", my temptation is getting the better of me.

 

Thanks for any help.

Jim

[smiller]

The brake warning light when you first turn the ignition on is normal. It will (or should) go out as soon as you start moving and the system does its self-check.

 

The noise you hear upon startup is a loose cam chain, common on bikes up to mid-2007 when an updated cam chain tensioner was introduced. The original tensioner didn't respond to oil pressure fast enough (hence the short burst of of rattling cam chain noise at startup, until oil pressure was sufficient to operate the tensioner) so an upgraded part with an oil reservoir was added which resolved the problem. It was an in-warranty upgrade (and sometimes done out of goodwill even out of warranty) but the part isn't expensive so it's pretty easy to do if necessary in any event. But one way or the other the upgraded tensioner (and also a guard on the lower cam chain sprocket, another inexpensive part) must be installed in order to eliminate the chance of cam chain slippage and possible engine damage. Once these two updates are done you should be good, but check the chain for proper length and replace it if necessary. If that is necessary then it's a more expensive repair.

 

The short answer is that the fixes for the cam chain noise itself are fairly easy and inexpensive to install (BMW was even footing the bill for a while, maybe they still are.) If the cam chain has stretched you may be looking at more like $500 so you may want to get it checked and work it into the price if necessary.

 

Once these items are taken care of you should hear no noise at all when the bike is started (well, other than the good sounds )

[Jimbo09]

Thank you. That's exactly what it sounded like. Engine parts moving against each other w/out proper lubrication. If this situation had existed for a time, can I assume potential engine damage? I don't mind an engine rebuild, but like you said, I'd work it into the price.

[smiller]

Probably no harm unless the chain actually slips, and if that happens you'd know it (bike wouldn't run well, or at all.)

 

You can tell if the upgraded tensioner has been installed just by looking, I'll see if I can find a picture and post it. If the bike still has the original tensioner then installing the upgraded part and the jump guard should make it right. If the bike already has the upgraded tensioner and is still making the noise then either 1) the cam chain has stretched or 2) the tensioner is binding or sticking and not doing its job, which can result from improper installation.

 

None of this will be very difficult for a BMW mechanic to sort out, but you do need to know the state of affairs before buying the bike. You might ask for the buyer to pay for an hour's labor for a BMW dealer to give you an opinion. Again, most likely just a few upgrades, maybe even for free, but possibly more than that so I'd suss it out before buying.

 

 

Edit: Here is an example of both old and new cam chain tensioners. The parts on the left are the original and the parts on the right are the upgrade. You will see the tall black cylinder sticking up on the left side of the engine if the new part has been installed. The black cylinder contains an oil reservoir so it acts immediately upon engine startup. The original had no reservoir so you had to wait for pressure to come up, which caused the temporary chain noise.

[Johnny Jetson]

I changed off an ST1300 to a K1200GT about a year ago. I had the Honda for 7 years and always loved it, but the BMW is a completely different creature.

 

It took me several months to get accustomed to the dramatic improvement in power and handling. The GT develops its power up high -- 5000 RPMs and up when passing or running canyon corners.

 

But it comes at a price. In the year I've owned the GT it's been in the shop more times than the Honda was in 7 years. Clutch, brakes, cam tensioner, tires, fuel sensor, kickstand switch, you name it. The service manager knows me by name.

 

If you can afford one, the K1300GT had some improvements and solved some of the 1200's problems, but they are much harder to find and likely to cost at least $3000 more.

 

For all its problems, I really love the 1200. I got a warranty on mine so the only repair I had to pay for was the clutch (and these bikes are clutch eaters). Needless to say, the warranty has more than paid for itself.

 

Happy riding --

 

[Jimbo09]

Thanks smiller! That's very helpful.

 

Johnny Jetson, what year and what's your mileage when you had those issues? And thanks for the comparison, which was probably going to be my next post. Reliability is a big deal, obviously. I can be a long way from home on my rides, and from what little I know, BMW dealers aren't as common as Honda shops. OTOH, few mechanics are familiar with the ST.

 

It's also a little disconcerting that a company would let a machine off its line with a problem like that. Perhaps it wasn't obvious on all bikes.

 

I'm hoping to keep my distance from the dealer. Who knows what'll happen if I take it for a ride.

[Jimbo09]

Also, I do most of the routine maintenance on my bike (fluid changes, brakes, tires, etc), so am interested in any input on how easy/complicated it is on a K12 or K13 GT.

 

Thanks.

[Johnny Jetson]

Jimbo:

 

My bike is an 07. It has about 43K on it now. The clutch went at about 30K.

 

I speculate that many of the problems common to the 06-08 model were the result of BMW rushing the new model to market in order to answer the new designs from Yamaha and Kawasaki that were coming out about then. Looks like a lot of beta testing was done in the field by the owners.

 

AFA non-dealer repairs, Many cities have one or more private BMW repair shops, some of which are quite good. But the issue with many of the more common problems with this bike is that the replacement parts are only available as an assembly or a kit, so the cost of repairs isn't going to be that much less at a non-dealer shop.

 

Example: The clutch replacement parts cost the dealer about $1800. Labor is in the range of $400-500 or so more, so there isn't going to be room in the pricing structure to take a big hunk off the price of the repair (the non-dealer will certainly not pay less for the clutch pack than the dealer will).

 

But for whatever failings the bike has, it is an absolute scream to ride. Seems like the harder you push it, the more it wants to run.

 

Hope you find a nice one,

JB

 

[Johnny Jetson]

Jimbo:

 

Smiler posted this last year when I asked the group about common problems with the K1200GTs. I thought it was helpful with my shopping:

 

 

In a nutshell, the most-mentioned issues with the 07-08 K1200GT are:

 

1. Cam drive problems, now cured by an updated cam chain tensioner (introduced in mid-2007 but can be easily retrofitted) and a jump guard (a protective device in case the tensioner ever doesn't do its thing), also easily installed. Actually I think BMW is even paying for it now (about 5 years too late.)

 

2. Clutch basket wear, about all you can do is ride the bike and if the clutch operates smoothly then you're probably OK. If it doesn't then there's a potential $2k repair involved so make sure it does.

 

3. There is a problem with the ABS module that surfaces on some bikes. BMW's solution is a $2000 replacement but luckily it can usually be repaired vs. replaced (for free by a skilled owner, or for $250 from ModuleMasters.)

 

4. Some bikes have experienced premature wear of the ball joints in the duolever front suspension. This about $500 for BMW to fix, or about $300 to do yourself (the freakin' ball joints are $150 each.) To check for this make sure the bike tracks well and doesn't wander, or put the bike on the centerstand, get the front wheel off the ground, and shake the wheel carrier back and forth. There should be no play.

 

Check out any potential purchases for the above and see if you're in the clear, or if not at least you know how much to subtract from the price to get them fixed. The 1300 has all the usual BMW 'improvements' that may or may not actually fix the problem, but they are at least somewhat less likely to have the above issues (at a higher price of course so you'll have to work out whether it is cost effective alternative.)

 

Oh, and a radar detector. You're definitely going to be wanting a radar detector. wink

[smiller]

Thanks Johnny, I was looking for that post but for some reason couldn't find it.

[hacjac]

I ride an 08 K1200GT. I bought it in 2010 with 12K miles on it. My clutch makes some strange noises once in a while at take off, but functions well. I've had the leaking fuel pump recall fixed and had an alternator failure, but otherwise, its been really solid. I have 36K on the bike now. It's not as nimble as an RT but the power is awesome. My next beemer will be a wethead RT though.

[TCC]

The 2007 K1200GT took me a while to get acclimated after ten years on a cruiser. The sitting position jockey style is much easier on the back. The bike just went through its 18K service and I have had no mechanical problems with it. Dealer handled 4 recalls in including dogbone, brake lines, ignition ring and crush plate. ai've had no problems with the ABS or chain tensioner.

 

I love this bike and nothing I have ridden even comes close.

 

Tom

[Johnny Jetson]

I find it very comfortable for long-distances, also. Much more so than my Honda was, even with the factory seat.

 

Another thing that surprised me was the smoothness of the engine. The ST1300 has a V4 with twin counterbalance shafts (if my memory is correct), and it's very smooth -- no doubt. But the K1200 engine is much smoother, especially above 5000RPM.

 

So smooth I've gotten on the freeway a couple of times and run along for 3-4 miles before I noticed the gear indicator showing a 5 when I had the cruise control set at 80. Incredibly smooth.

[Luv2lean]

I have a very nice dark gray 07 K12GT I will be selling soon. It is a California bike with 30K miles, is in excellent condition, never dropped, lots of extras (hard bmw panniers, top box, 3 saddles, 2 windshields, etc).

It will be reasonably priced and is worth a look if anybody is in the market for a high performance sport tourer.

email me for pics: cneely02@msn.com

[UberXY]

BMW installed the cam chain guide upgrade free on my 05 K12S ast August. I took the bike in for the extended warranty on the fuel strip, and while I was there they said there was also a silent recall on the cam guide. I'm not used to free work on a nine year old bike.

[racer7]

Among the 6 BMWs in our set is a K1200GT with all of the known issues addressed. Its my least favorite in the set- its hard suspension, relatively slow handling compared to the others make it less fun to ride than others. And its power curve for general riding is inferior to the 1200 brick models that preceded it - the bricks have a wider smoother powerband though being down some on top by comparison.

The K wedge is also a nuisance to service compared to an R or even older Ks. Oil, brakes, whatever all take double the tie of an R so you'll pay for tat one ay or another.