BMW Motorrad Executives Responsible

[dirtrider]

Since we're so worried about the courts and getting sued and all, how does anyone know to a legal certainty that a given rider is even aware of the recall? Is BMW sending notices via certified mail or something?

 

Morning Seth

 

Good point.

 

I never got a letter or even a dealer call as I don't own the 2014RT that I have been riding.

 

I know a guy right now that is (I hope) half way to Alaska on a 2014RT. As far as I know he is completing his trip as he has no other way home, no other options, & no cell phone.

 

 

 

[Rex R]

Since we're so worried about the courts and getting sued and all, how does anyone know to a legal certainty that a given rider is even aware of the recall? Is BMW sending notices via certified mail or something?

 

Morning Seth

 

Good point.

 

I never got a letter or even a dealer call as I don't own the 2014RT that I have been riding.

 

I know a guy right now that is (I hope) half way to Alaska on a 2014RT. As far as I know he is completing his trip as he has no other way home, no other options, & no cell phone.

 

 

 

It is a mistake to assume that BMW or an injured party must prove (ie certified letter, return receipt) that a given rider/owner was notified of the do not rider "order"

 

I have no knowledge of the requirements for notice in this situation or of insurance law with respect to this situation, however....

 

There are many times when the law considers a person legally notified by publication of notice in a newspaper, other times by certificate of mailing (not certified mail and no return receipt), other times by "nail and mail"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

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There are many times when the law considers a person legally notified by publication of notice in a newspaper, other times by certificate of mailing (not certified mail and no return receipt), other times by "nail and mail"

 

 

 

Evening Rex

 

Thanks, that makes me feel better-- as nothing on the BMW shock issue in any of my local newspapers, no certified mail to me, & nothing nailed & mailed to me, so I'm off-a-riding again tomorrow.

 

 

[Rex R]

 

 

those were just a few possibilities that apply to specific (other) situations to illustrate a point. The fact that BMW notified their dealer network with instructions to notify all customers who purchased this bike and possibly took other steps to inform riders/owners MAY constitute sufficient notice, LEGALLY equivalent to the president of the company telling you face to face. (OK, that's a slight exageration.)

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but be aware that if the shock failure that BMW notified their customers about causes an accident/injuries/property damage, insurance MAY not cover it and the insurance company MAY not even provide legal representation. People can and do lose their life savings, home, etc. just defending lawsuits, even when they win. If they lose... they can lose big time. IF insurance does cover legal expenses and pay off on the damages, the judgement might exceed the limits of coverage, in which case the rider/owner's personal assets (home, savings) are again at risk. Don't own a home or have savings? they could still garnish your paycheck.

[John in VA]

Since we're so worried about the courts and getting sued and all, how does anyone know to a legal certainty that a given rider is even aware of the recall? Is BMW sending notices via certified mail or something?

 

One doesn't. Of course, an owner whose shock rod fractures and injures somebody or the rider and who knew of the manufacturer stop-ride and NHTSA recall notices can lie to their insurance company and plaintiffs' lawyers that they had no idea there was a stop-ride notice on their vehicle, but insurance investigators know of the stop-ride and can be even more tenacious than law enforcement sometimes in finding the truth. Just saying.

 

Also, rules regarding the adequacy of legal notification are very loose -- see the teeny tiny legal notices in the back of your local newspaper? They're good enough.

[John in VA]

 

those were just a few possibilities that apply to specific (other) situations to illustrate a point. The fact that BMW notified their dealer network with instructions to notify all customers who purchased this bike and possibly took other steps to inform riders/owners MAY constitute sufficient notice, LEGALLY equivalent to the president of the company telling you face to face. (OK, that's a slight exageration.)

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but be aware that if the shock failure that BMW notified their customers about causes an accident/injuries/property damage, insurance MAY not cover it and the insurance company MAY not even provide legal representation. People can and do lose their life savings, home, etc. just defending lawsuits, even when they win. If they lose... they can lose big time. IF insurance does cover legal expenses and pay off on the damages, the judgement might exceed the limits of coverage, in which case the rider/owner's personal assets (home, savings) are again at risk. Don't own a home or have savings? they could still garnish your paycheck.

 

Sad but true. Even if someone can get their insurance companies to pay out maximum coverage for their own deliberate, reckless negligence (a big if), it probably wouldn't be enough to cover a civil suit or even one's own medical costs. Hopefully, no rider would deliberately keep the stop-ride info from a pillion who rode with him/her. That could be a life-altering secret in so many ways, affecting so many people.

[dirtrider]

 

those were just a few possibilities that apply to specific (other) situations to illustrate a point. The fact that BMW notified their dealer network with instructions to notify all customers who purchased this bike and possibly took other steps to inform riders/owners MAY constitute sufficient notice, LEGALLY equivalent to the president of the company telling you face to face. (OK, that's a slight exageration.)

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but be aware that if the shock failure that BMW notified their customers about causes an accident/injuries/property damage, insurance MAY not cover it and the insurance company MAY not even provide legal representation. People can and do lose their life savings, home, etc. just defending lawsuits, even when they win. If they lose... they can lose big time. IF insurance does cover legal expenses and pay off on the damages, the judgement might exceed the limits of coverage, in which case the rider/owner's personal assets (home, savings) are again at risk. Don't own a home or have savings? they could still garnish your paycheck.

 

Morning Rex

 

Thanks for the legal advise. It seems like we are getting quite a few lawyers now chiming in on this now.

 

 

 

[Rex R]

 

those were just a few possibilities that apply to specific (other) situations to illustrate a point. The fact that BMW notified their dealer network with instructions to notify all customers who purchased this bike and possibly took other steps to inform riders/owners MAY constitute sufficient notice, LEGALLY equivalent to the president of the company telling you face to face. (OK, that's a slight exageration.)

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but be aware that if the shock failure that BMW notified their customers about causes an accident/injuries/property damage, insurance MAY not cover it and the insurance company MAY not even provide legal representation. People can and do lose their life savings, home, etc. just defending lawsuits, even when they win. If they lose... they can lose big time. IF insurance does cover legal expenses and pay off on the damages, the judgement might exceed the limits of coverage, in which case the rider/owner's personal assets (home, savings) are again at risk. Don't own a home or have savings? they could still garnish your paycheck.

 

Morning Rex

 

Thanks for the legal advise. It seems like we are getting quite a few lawyers now chiming in on this now.

 

 

lol. I'm not practicing law over the internet. Just throwing in my 2 cents like everyone else.

[tallman]

It would be easy enough for a good investigator to determine

whether or not someone participated in a public forum/social media.

Such participation would certainly be deemed as having "notice".

 

Won't it be great next summer to be reading about all the ride tales from '14 owners...

[marcopolo]

Can we all agree that this particular horse (the legal implications of riding the '14RT) has now been truly flogged to death?

[Firefight911]

Can we all agree that this particular horse (the legal implications of riding the '14RT) has now been truly flogged to death?

 

Hey, this is "winter" for all the RT riders out there. What else are they supposed to do? It's not like they can ride.

 

Just wait until they actually get the bike fix and the next item that breaks takes the bike back to the shop. BBWWWWAAAHHHAAAAAA!!!!!

[racer7]

In response to the original question I can assure the OP no one will get fired. I've worked with a lot of euro firms and virtually all use matrix structures intended to obscure individual accountability. One of the things common to such business cultures is promotion based on internal politics and networking rather than individual results. To get fired, you have to fall out of favor or embarrass heck out of someone(s) important at the firm. Screwups matter little otherwise.

 

I spent a fair part of my career (now retired) as head of various technical and production functions in a highly regulated industry where the quality head has the power of god over internal procedures and product status. And where there are possible federal criminal penalties for violations.

 

From my experiences I know 2 things for sure

1) Criminal penalty possibilities are the only thing that truly draw the attention of the board, CEO, etc. Stuff like fines just comes out of the hide of the shareholders so matter little as long as the stock price (and worth of their options) doesn't crash completely.

2) BMW has some serious defects in the processes it uses to develop and test new models. No development process can spot true statistical oddities and all rare events but the more common and serious stuff can be found and eliminated by proper development. BMW has been bitten by "not rare" events at every new model intro for years now which is prima facie proof they're not doing a great job at development. The usual reason for that is that all the early development issues cause delays which impact final efforts- while the marketing launch (rush to market) remains unaffected despite unresolved or undiscovered problems.

The vehicle industry does not have execs or a culture that puts customer expectations first, partly because there are no internal or external penalties for failure to do so, other than long term loss of market share (and even with that happening GM drove itself straight into bankruptcy)

 

I do believe BMW is acting responsibly to protect its customers after the problem was found. I also find the planned speed of the response reasonable given what is involved in the logistics of getting it all done.

 

I own an 06 K1200GT. Its issues were and are quite sufficient to convince me only the naive buy first year BMW bikes.

 

 

[bdfbeemer]

Most the other stuff on the bike isn't new. So hopefully there only will be minor issues as all bikes and car have time to time.